Comments about ‘Beware of FLDS enforcers, Texas told’

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Published: Wednesday, June 11 2008 12:06 a.m. MDT

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There wasn't probable cause

R,

"You've got to be kidding me! The tip that spawned the raid was made by a woman [Rozita Swinton, claiming to be the fictional "Sarah Barlow"] who had never been to YFZ (and was never part of the FLDS at all) against a man [Dale Barlow] who had also never set foot at YFZ. That's your "probable cause".

That's the substance of this issue. To claim that the police had probable cause to take 400+ children and several adults based on a SINGLE phone call is ignorant. That is not probable cause and if it was I want to know the posters who are saying this so I can make a few phone calls to the police and watch as their children are taken based on my FAKE phone calls.

A simple trace (caller ID) would have demonstrated the phone call didn't come from the YFZ Ranch and DIDN'T EVEN ORIGINATE in Texas. We know the police can pinpoint the location of a cell phone making a phone call by getting a warrant to do so and the phone company will tell them a 5 mile radius, and definately the state. There was probable cause for a phone trace.

Re: Paul

"your statement that they must have something on these people is complete and utter nonsense."

How would you know Paul? Lead investigator? Yeah, didn't think so. Are you so arrogant that you believe that you know everything that there is to know? Everything that has gone on in these FLDS communities? Can you not admit that *maybe* months of investigation may have uncovered some things of which you are not aware?

Im not speaking of the going ons in Texas because I don't have any first hand knowledge of what went on inside those walls. However, the investigations in Hilldale and Colorado City unearthed enough evidence to convict Warren Jeffs of his crimes. Is it possible that this one girl was the only girl that he allowed to be raped repeatedly? Possible yes. Probable? No. Are you so sure of your statements that you'd send your own teenaged daughter to FLDS summer camp? I doubt it.

All I am saying this that Washington County had more than enough reason to suspect POSSIBLE violence from key players in the FLDS community. Why not plan for any eventuality?

Warren Jeffs Confession

"I saw this tape of Warren Jeffs saying this but it looked like he had to read from a paper several times while doing so, he pauses on difficult words and looks down, finishes his sentence before looking up and speaks in a monotone which indicate he may have been being coerced."

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? This is getting ridiculous. Why would the prosocution risk a false confession of that nature? It didn't matter to the case if he was a prophet or not. He forced little girls into underage marriage, resulting in their rape. This has been proven. Who cares if he's a Prophet? If I were FLDS, I would pray that he is a false Prophet.

Re: Janet | 1:03 p.m.

"Wilford Woodruff was a good man, the Lord accomplished many great works through him but he did sign away his right to the Priesthood, he cannot, and neither can anyone else change the word of God even if they think it should be done away with."

You obviously don't believe in prophets then, because a true prophet is first and foremost, a mouth-piece of the Lord.

God can and does change His laws to suit His purposes. Even a cursory study of the scriptures is sufficient evidence to prove that God's laws have changed.

You eat pork. People during the time of Christ were forbidden from eating pork.

They drank wine. You are forbidden from drinking wine.

Get the facts straight

Re: Get the issues straight | 1:20 a.m. June 12, 2008

The prosecutions ARE against rape. It is not only against rape in the forced sense, but also in statutory as a very large percentage of these women are married in their early teens. The focus is on those men with underage wives... not on those involved in plural marriages with appropriately aged women. These issues haven't been as well publicized because such details wouldn't be beneficial to the image the FLDS are trying to portray. I personally believe that if a grown woman chooses to be a part of a plural marriage, its not my place to judge, but the issue of young girls being forced into marriage with much older men is just unacceptable.

zoar

Janet,

Janet

I have studied the manifesto and the arguments for each side are very compelling but lead me to no definite conclusion. This has persuaded me not to join in persecuting those who believe and practice the principle of plural marriage. Peradventure, I may be going against God. Just because the LDS Church has forbidden its members from practicing polygamy, does not give us the right to revile others who believe differently. How soon we forget our own history, how the Mother Church was persecuted for its peculiar beliefs, fueled by the hate of apostates.

I can find no place in the scriptures where the Lord tells us to persecute those who do not have the same beliefs, in fact we are admonished by Him to contend against no Church.

RE: stu

The police are creating all of this to prove the need for law enforcement? Take a look around. In a nation running rampant with murder and violence who needs to make things up.

Anonymous

"The prosecutions ARE against rape."

What prosecutions?
There haven't even been any charges filed. None. There is not a single person living in the YFZ ranch who's been charged with ANYTHING relating to the removal of their children. All we've seen is proclamations that these people are evil. But the job of the justice system is to prosecute crimes, not to issue press releases. Yet, they've prosecuted no one.

Additionally, will someone please give their sources for their accusations? If I'm wrong, I'd really like to know. But the accusations I'm reading here go well beyond the worst of the tabloid stories I've read. If half of what some here are saying is true, the FDLS members belong in jail. Can you offer any reasons why they're still free? Can you offer any reasons why multiple courts have ruled that they've done nothing wrong?

Re: R

As to your claim that no underage wives were found in the compound in Texas... explain the number of underage girls who were found to be pregnant or mothers themselves. And why would they not comment about the fathers of those children... because that would incriminate their adult partners. And I have seen with my own eyes very young girls with their husbands (and their babies) in Utah... and as quite a large chunk of Hilldale residents were transferred to the Texas compound I'd say that the accusations are not unfounded. Gossip? I think not... I've been there and seen it.

As to probable cause, I'd like to know how you can be so certain that months of investigation by local law enforcement and FBI turned up absolutely nothing.

Re: Re: R

Those "underage girls who were found to be pregnant or mothers themselves," turned out to be mostly adults. If I remember correctly, they're down to ONE who MIGHT actually be underage. Considering this country's teenage motherhood rate, that's a surprisingly low number.

And, once again, where are the prosecutions for these alleged crimes? Why does Texas continue to allow these rapists to walk the streets? Why do the courts continue to rule that they AREN'T rapists?

Anonymous

"As to probable cause, I'd like to know how you can be so certain that months of investigation by local law enforcement and FBI turned up absolutely nothing."


Because the Texas State Supreme Court ruled that they had turned up absolutely nothing.

The udge

was a threat and should be prosecuted now that all has come out
We can not let this go un checked

What crime?

If there were rapes and beatings of girls going on, why weren't the men changed with rape and assualt? NO EVIDENCE! Their crime was polygamy! Very politically incorrect for reasons of hypocrisy! How many people fornicate in this country? Is that somehow "ok", but being married to more than one spouse is immoral? FLDS committed the crime of being politically incorrect. Is your religion (or lack thereof) on the governments approval list? Waco and Ruby Ridge..who is next? Maybe you! Wake up America, this is an abuse of power like we see in Cuba,Iran or China. These kinds of things should never happen in this country. Only if we allow them to happen! Vote the bums out of office! This issue has very little to do with polygamy and much to do about freedom.

R

//explain the number of underage girls who were found to be pregnant or mothers themselves.//

Simple: the people who conducted the raid were determined to find underage girls, so they pretended grown women were the teen mothers they were desperate to find.

Exactly!

"I personally believe that if a grown woman chooses to be a part of a plural marriage, its not my place to judge, but the issue of young girls being forced into marriage with much older men is just unacceptable."

Well said.

Anonymous

"...ONE who MIGHT actually be underage. Considering this country's teenage motherhood rate, that's a surprisingly low number."

So "one" is okay? How many do you think it should take before someone steps in?

It is common knowledge that these girls are married off WELL before they're 18.

From the Creek

"It is common knowledge that these girls are married off WELL before they're 18."

Really? I can name several FLDS girls over 18 who aren't married. Some are in their early 20's.

"So "one" is okay? How many do you think it should take before someone steps in?"

Notice, the keyword here was "MIGHT". For all I know, you "might" have a meth lab in your basement. I don't have any proof it isn't true, so you must be guilty until you can prove to me otherwise. That seems to be the mentality of far too many people -- they want the burden of proof to be on the FLDS to prove that abuse DIDN'T happen. I am pleased to see that far more people still believe in being presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Let's not throw away our God-given Constitution for a witch-hunt. We can't afford to let the rights of the innocent be violated just so we can catch a few "perverts." Wake up, Americans! An unpopular group or a minority has just as many rights as any other group, and we all deserve equal protection of our rights.

re:from the creek

don't you mean "up a creek"? If everything so's great about the FLDS brainwashing compounds, why is Merrill in hiding?

Bartleby

Beware the CPS Enforcers, is more like it.

Perpetrators of Maltreatment (per 100,000 children)

CPS: Physical abuse: 160
Parents: 50

CPS, Sexual Abuse: 112
Parents: 13

Fatalities, CPS: 6.4
Parents: 1.5

Source: National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect (NCCAN), Washington

Paul

Get The Issues Straight, I repeat. What man from Texas has been indicted for any crime during this two-month witch hunt? They obviously have nothing.

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