Comments about ‘Beware of FLDS enforcers, Texas told’

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Published: Wednesday, June 11 2008 12:06 a.m. MDT

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Pamela

I think that hiding behind religion so that grown men can have sexual relations with 13 year old girls constitutes an example of violence. I mean, can you imagine what's worse?

Get the Issue Straight

RE: Paul

It is apparent who has been indicated by anyone who reads the documents. It is clearly stated those who are considered a potential threat and those who are not. The dossiers are based on accusations made in the many witness interviews conducted during the previous trial. As to why these suspicions were not brought up then, it is customary to only release the information relevant to the current trial. Just because nothing was released to the public doesn't mean that anything is unfounded. It is foolish to believe you know all of the facts. Many detectives spent intense months investigating these communities and it would be a waste of their time to make useless accusations in a document that was never meant to be publicly released.

predictable critic

RE: Paul

Let me remind you that the Police-style raid (rather ironic as it WAS in fact the police) that you keep bringing up did in fact happen in Texas and NOT in Utah, which is where the dossiers originated. The only adults imprisoned in Utah were both fairly tried and prosecuted by a full jury. Warren, in his own words during a visitation with his brother, admitted that he is an evil man that deserved to be punished. Sound like the confession of an innocent man to you? So as for the integrity of the Utah law enforcement, that means that your "facts" mean exactly JACK.
As for all the innocent people imprisoned across the country... haven't you heard... they're all innocent! Go into any prison and 90% of them will tell you that they didn't do it... never mind if they were caught on tape, red handed or there were 52 eye-witnesses... it wasn't them! And to the VERY small percentage that are actually innocent, I'm sorry for them, but it really is a rarity. Go cry about the injustices of law enforcement to someone else... I know better.

klesb

Wouldn't it be safer for us all if the judge was held in solitary until HER kidnapping trial?

Clear head

Texas Family & Children's Services was within their rights by responding to the telephone call, whether a hoax or not, if they acted in good faith that the call was real when it was received. There will be no "billion dollar settlement" with the polygamists. Federal and State laws prevent deep-pocket lawsuits against government entities. There is no violation of civil liberties for the women over age 18 being held if there was not sufficient evidence to substantiate that they were of legal age. Someone's word or a home-made ID card is insufficient. There were underage girls being molested and forced into marriage. That is illegal. The Judge, FCS and law enforcement did their jobs as defined by law. They did nothing criminal. The Judge, FCS and law enforcement ALL deserve protection. To suggest that it is not needed is ridiculous. Better to spend the money to protect them than to not spend it and regret it forever. Polygamist families are bleeding the welfare system dry, as the 2nd wives and on are considered single parents. That is an abuse of the system. If you can't support your children, you shouldn't expect the state to do so.

Cynthia

Read the book "Escape" by Caroline Jessop. She was born and raised in a polygamist sect in Arizona that was taken over by Warren Jeffs. (He later moved to Texas.) She barely escaped from the sect with her eight children. She states that Jeffs outlawed books, newspapers, TVs, radios, and even the color red. She also shares that "torture" of animals was used to keep children in line. She also shares that, when he took over as "prophet," later calling himself "Jesus," he began to marry girls off at an increasingly younger age. And he separated already married couples by giving the wives to other men. This was considered normal: the prophet received "revelations" from God revealing who should marry whom.

Question

TO: Former FLDS Wife From My Book
What is the name of your book? Has it been published yet?

FLDS- enforcers?

there are 706,600 Texans in prison, jail, parole or probation on any given day. In a state with 14 million adults, this means that 5% of adult Texans, or 1 out of every 20, are under some form of criminal justice supervision. The scale of what is happening in Texas is so huge, it is difficult to contrast the size of its criminal justice systems to the other states' systems it dwarfs:
* There are more Texans under criminal justice control than the entire populations of some states, including Vermont, Wyoming and Alaska.. And working on Utah **** And they say the FLDS are a threat.... Sheeeesh!

Wacko in Waco

Hmmm, Governor's mansion destroyed by fire.

john smith

This sounds like a government trick to save face. We done bad now we is gonna act like we is in danger so we can stand on some kinda moral ground........Oh TEXAS............ I thought I knew U bedder.

jim

Great, how about the tax payers get round the clock security protection from the government and these out of control unaccountable judges with their own agendas? are we getting sick and tired of the tyranical government machine yet?

Jim

I wish Texas would just secede already. I wonder if Mexico would take them back?

Roger

After Waco, I'm a lot more afraid of the State and Federal Government then I am of any religious group, regardless of my feelings toward that group. I don't recall any incident in our nations history, where any religious order murdered as many women and children as our government did at Waco. Lets keep things in perspective.

R

The "moral outrage" you speak of directed at the FLDS is not over how many wives these men have, but that they are forcing little girls into marriage and sexual relationships with grown men. We are talking girls 11, 12, 13 years old.

Not one of which has been found among the children of YFZ. Don't be so eager to repeat rumor and gossip as fact.

But there is no way that they would have been able to justify such a drastic move without a great deal of probable cause.

You've got to be kidding me! The tip that spawned the raid was made by a woman [Rozita Swinton, claiming to be the fictional "Sarah Barlow"] who had never been to YFZ (and was never part of the FLDS at all) against a man [Dale Barlow] who had also never set foot at YFZ. That's your "probable cause".

R

//I'm also waiting for people so upset about this raid to explain why CPS was wrong for doing this, yet Warren Jeffs gets a free pass for tearing apart and "reassigning" families for years? Why no outcry when this occurs?//

Well, maybe the fact that even if Warren Jeffs had torn apart every single FLDS family in North America, the people affected would be less than half of the number of children in foster care in Texas alone. (about 26k in 2003)

R

There is no violation of civil liberties for the women over age 18 being held if there was not sufficient evidence to substantiate that they were of legal age. Someone's word or a home-made ID card is insufficient.

Home-made? The women who presented ID cards did not present "home-made" ID; they were subsequently backed up by the state of Utah verifying their IDs were real. The only reason authorities claimed their IDs were fake was to add them to their BS count of teen mothers. Who here regularly mistakes 37 year old women for teens?

TetonMike

Rockwell Porter

Grandpa Phil

To "A Texan", people like you are the reason why the State of Texas cannot disassociate itself from this travesty of justice. We hear people from Texas say, "Don't blame us all" ; however, when we hear comments like yours, everyone in Texas who has failed to stand against the tide of injustice bears the blame for what was allowed to happen under color of law. You sound SO MUCH like the head of CPS trying to justify what CPS did to those children. Of course CPS supports Judge Walthers; they were all in it together to destroy a group that was different. The CPS worker who testified at the hearing who stated that, while there was no evidence of abuse found, they would not be willing to return the children unless the mothers renounced their religion SPEAKS VOLUMES for CPS's true intent and focus. Judge Walthers and the CPS workers SHOULD be required to answer for their illegal actions and I hope the FLDS do follow that path. If no one else is going to hold them accountable, I hope the FLDS do.

Plato

Amazing! The state of Texas violates the privacy and sanctity of peaceful citizens on a hoax warrant, then kidnaps 465 citizens and declares adults minors (one was 27 years old) and forcibly separates children from mothers without factual cause.

The nonconfrontational FLDS people summarily forgive their tormentors and return to their homes only to be accused of threatening an out of control judge.

These people have no history of violence whatever. When is Texas going to get a clue about constitutional imperatives that they continue to ignore and then they have the audacity to cloak their guilt with "threat paranoia."

Grandpa Phil

Uhm, "Clearhead", time to clear it again. Federal law allows for government agencies (Federal, State, and County) to be held accountable for infringement of Constitutional rights under 42 US Code 1983, if that infringement was conducted under color of law - as it was in this case. The adult women being held by CPS DID, IN FACT, show proper identification; however, CPS refused to accept it until immediately after their children were born. How convenient is that? You say there were underage girls being molested and being forced into marriage; however, CPS was unable to find more than one "possible". CPS admitted in court that they had found no evidence of abuse by either the mothers OR THE FATHERS. That is why the children are now home. I agree that Judge Walthers deserves protection; everyone in our legal system should be treated as innocent until proven guilty. That is more than she and CPS did for the FLDS parents. Sad that she brought the NEED for protection on herself by blatantly violating the rights of a lot of good people and by abusing those children. Perhaps she will get some long-term protection as a guest of the State of Texas.

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