Comments about ‘Beware of FLDS enforcers, Texas told’

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Published: Wednesday, June 11 2008 12:06 a.m. MDT

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John Lambert

To "Obvious",
Statutory rape is not an act of violence. You can not have your cake an eat it to. If the girls are all brainwashed into doing exactly what the men want, as the FLDS-bashers keep claiming, than there is no violence involved.
It does appear that in Ms. Walls case there was truly violent rape. However, there is no evidence that there was non-statutory rape, that is to say rape that would exist if we held that females 12 years and over could give consent. I think that statutory rape laws are good, and I am no supporter of this practice in any form. However, are you trying to tell me that the alleged 12-year-old making out in the pictures with Warren Jeffs is being physically forced to particepate?
You are mixing terms. Statutory rape is not inherently violent, and the victims do not always feel violated. This is one of the reasons it is so hard to prosecute.

deroy

the judge needs to be jailed pending an investigation. her stupid and unlawful actions could have caused a repeat of the JANET RENO inspired WACO state sponsored murders.

Justthefactsmaam

So let me get this straight. The members of the FLDS church wantonly break the law by practicing polygamy (yes spiritual partners count), actively support the marriage and adult relationships of female minors, have no problem with first and second cousins having children together.
----
Bill, obviously you need to get a lot of things straight.

1) co-habitation is legal in the USA. That's all this is. Real bigamy is 2 or more marriage licenses. Whether the partners are called baby-mamas or wives, doesn't matter. Co-habitation is legal in the USA.

2) Although it's disputed at the moment, there actually turned out to be, once all of the 18 to 27 year old to 36 year old (almost 37) 'minors' were weeded out, either

1 or 0

minors that had ever been pregnant.

Oops.

3) It's legal in 19 states to marry one's first cousin in the USA, including California and New York. That's because marrying your first AND second cousins (and 3rd cousins, etc) isn't prohibited in the Bible's incest laws in Leviticus.

Oops.

JustTheFactsMaam

John Lambert

"Under The Banner of Heaven" is a seriously flawed book. Anyway, the Laffertys were never part of the FLDS movement.
Among other things Krakauer claims the LDS Church has an official position against inter-racial marriage, I think most specifically Black men marrying white women. Since I have known at least four couples that fit that description who got married in the temple, if you look back over Mormon Times you can find articles on two more couples of that type who got married in the temple, including the Chair of the Department of Religios Education at BYU-Hawaii, and this is ignoring at least four other sealed couples I know where the wife was black, Krakauer's statements are clearly false.
His book is basically hate liturature aginst the LDS Church though his attempts to link it to the Polygamous movement, and not much better in his attempts to link the relatively mainstream elements within polygamy with Lafferty.
Krakauer's book is full of inacuracies from beganing to end.

KC

So let me see if I have this straight. If you're high up in the hierarchy, you're an extreme threat because you're part of the system. If you're low in the hierarchy, you're an extreme threat because 'what might you do to move up'?

I call BS. This dossier sounds like it was just made up as they went along. It sounds exactly like the propaganda smear job used against the Branch Dividians.

David

All the Marxists that attempted to disrupt the lives of so many should be fired. The Judge, Sheriff, and their quisling comrades at CPS should be imprisoned, tried for treason, and punished to the full extent of the law they dishonored. Only a Marxist, or a spiteful woman, could create such a scenario.

John Lambert

One more thing Krakauer said. He claims that at BYU no one ever walks on the grass, people always stick totally to the sidewalks.
I do not seem to remember this having been the case, but it has been almost four years since I was last there, and so I was wondering if anyone could comment on this issue who had a clearer memory of how often people walk on the grass at BYU.

A Texan

I completely support Judge Walther. Girls raised in that compound are in danger of being sexually abused at a young age. They are being raised with that in mind. Their parents' "consent" to sham marriages does not change the fact that young girls are being indoctrinated to become willing victims of child sexual abuse. The Court of Appeals ruling that the compound is not a single domicile is a matter of opinion--Judge Walther believed it was and I certainly believe it is. Judge Walther is a conservative and a Republican. The only other woman to rule in the matter--Judge Harriet O"Neill joined two other Supreme Court Justices in a dissent saying that pubescent girls should remain in state custody. This is not a question of the state sticking it's nose into sexual activities between consenting adults. Children are being exploited in Texas, and shame on those who are looking the other way. Further, we are noting if not a society of laws--threatening a judge is a serious matter, and I hope those who have done it are locked up for many years.

Grand Old Marxist Party (GOMP)

David,

"All the Marxists that attempted to disrupt the lives of so many should be fired. The Judge, Sheriff, and their quisling comrades at CPS should be imprisoned, tried for treason, and punished to the full extent of the law they dishonored. Only a Marxist, or a spiteful woman, could create such a scenario."

I have no problem with you calling Republicans Marxists since that is exactly what they are.

Whatev

So now that the Texas Justice dept and Child Services have egg on their faces, they have to try and make up some new story. C'mon people, I don't agree with the polygs one bit, but this is facism at best.

Rich

On these very pages, I have read many comments by FLDS members who wrote threatening things about the judge. I would be plenty worried about some FLDS nut coming after me if I were the judge. The FLDS consider themselves above the law because they rationalize that they are following a higher law when they commit the felony of polygamy. Therefore, it's easy to see one of them thinking he or she is getting a revelation to dispose of the evil judge who ordered the removal of the FLDS children. Some of the polygnists, as they like to call themselves, rationalized openly that because of certain Bible passages they are justified in marrying and having sex with a girl as long as she has reached sexual maturity. I view this religion as a sick and evil cult, whose well-meaning members have been deceived by men who justify their actions by saying they are called of God and receive revelations from God.

Anonymous

CPS is not a criminal investigation / police unit, it is civil agency.

Anonymous

Walthers and Perry face high crimes of genocide against the religion so there is a full court press on now as there has been from the beginning. Counts besides genocide include false imprisonment of adults while leading the media on that they are children. It goes beyond the YFZ ranch. Carolyn Jessop, the author of the book that peaked on Amazon.com a couple of days BEFORE the raid on YFZ, is also part of stealing the UEP Trust from the FLDS which has about 300 million dollars in land. It is genocide against people who have been persecuted for decades now. Utah, Arizona and Texas are all trying their hand at getting rid of them. But the attacks are against US and International law.

Reply to Karen

"You little twinky! My brother lives at the YFZ and he pulls 72 hour shifts. They work extremely hard to be self-sufficient and they DO NOT rely on welfare or foodstamps, keep your frump to yourself. It's your problem if it makes you upset that people take wasteland out in the boonies and turn it into a beautiful thriving community. You need to get a clue!"

If they have all this money then why in the devil did the women get attorney through legal aid? That sticks in my craw because there are other hard working people who need attorneys and cannot get them because they make too much money and are living just above the poverty line.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Bill

It is a fantasy to think there will be any successful lawsuits against CPS.

Courts grant organizations such as CPS enormous leeway, and CPS is fully complying with the appellate court.

And CPS isn't going anywhere - the court rulings allow CPS to have unrestricted followups for the next several years with the children released from CPS custody.

Like it or not, CPS will be monitoring *all* the FLDS children for the forseeable future (yes, that includes unannounced visits to YFZ)

Janet

To: Rich | 7:24 p.m. June 11, 2008

Just for the record we do not call ourselves polygamists, you do. I am not above the laws of the land nor the laws of God but the laws of God do come first, read the account of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Bible if that confuses you. Furthermore, we do not recieve revelations concerning any judge. Revelation comes from God to His Prophet and he teaches us to "send the humility of forgiveness ahead of us". I have not been decieved by anyone. The eyes of my maker are upon me, I will honor God as I believe.

John Lambert

We are also a society of elections, and citizen participation.
Is it illegal to draw up an impeachment document against a judge?
I do not care what party Walther is part of, she is incompetent and needs to be removed. Anyway, the Republicans have a long history of organizing religious persecutions. Just look at what happened in Utah in the 1880s.

Karen

Reply To: Reply to Karen | 7:35 p.m. June 11, 2008

All what money? Did I say my brother got paid money? Our motto is "love to bless and serve" do you have to get paid money to work hard, have you ever concidered giving of yourself to bless somone else. Most of teh Texas legal aid are volunteering their time to help those among the FLDS who are "just above the poverty line". Oh, by the way I don't smoke and I don't want to know what "sticks in my craw" means. Heaven bless you!

John Lambert

To Janet,
Yes revelation came from God to his prophet. It came to his prophet Wilford Woodruff and his prophet Joseph F. Smith. You and all the rest of the FLDS have rejected the words of God's prophets.

Ing

The circus just keeps on going, doesn't it. At this point, the Texas CPS and all the law enforcement people involved in this thing have pretty much zero credibility.

This police dossier sounds a lot like the CPS' lame court arguments--a lot of speculation and opinion with almost no factual basis.

If it's just law enforcement speculating in order to cover every possible contingency in preventing possible attacks from crackpots, that's one thing.

If it gets perpetuated as evidence that the FLDS have violence in mind--and it seems to already be morphing into its own self-evident truth--then there's a problem.

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