Reader comments
Utah's heavy tax burden

All we need to look at is the fact that in per pupil spending utah ranks 51st out of 51.

Pathetic.

Guess what? Research shows money per pupil doesn't equal better education. I live where they have gobs more money for schools, fancy smartboards in every classroom, higher teacher salaries, and you know what? Only 60% graduate. So money doesn't equal better education. Utah actually is doing quite well in their education system, even though it could always be better.

The better question is if we spent more on education, HOW would we spend it? Just throwing money at it doesn't mean it will get better.

Having a property tax says that I never own my property -- 'm just renting from the government. In additional, regardless of income I still have to pay my property taxes or I lose my home. Who cares how we compare to other states? Property taxes (and all taxes in aggregate) are too high. Fund our schools some other way. And let's stop wasting our precious tax money.

I agree. Per pupil spending is all that matters. Actual performance is not necessarily a concern. We should be increasing spending for spending's sake.

My family and I recently moved from out of state. Although our new school scored well relative to other UT schools we've been disappointed in our child's experience. That said, I want to see the ROI before we increase spending per pupil.

I'm as anti-tax as I believe almost any other reasonable person cab be. However, I'd be okay in increasing taxes to fund the equivalent of $5K/yr add'l per teacher with the following caveats � 1) principals can allocate that raise money to teachers however they like and 2) unions must allow principals to fire whomever they like.

The unions keep talking about the teacher shortage. If individual teachers don't like the deal they get from their principal they can play the market.

Reading newspapers in other states, they claim to pay their teachers the least. You can do anything you want with numbers.

There is so much tax exempt property in Utah, religious and otherwise, that some fees make sense so that everyone pays something including big institutions that may not pay property taxes. To Overtaxed: We do have another way to fund public schools. It is called the State income tax which goes entirely to fund public education. Property taxes only fund a small portion of what is required to operate schools.

Just remember who the Utah Taxpayers Association is. It's an association to protect big business. That's who pays membership fees and pays the staff to do this research any way they want.
There is nothing wrong with that, but readers should remember who is setting the perameters of the report and paying for it. The Utah Taxpayers Association is not me or you or Utah families.

And as per usual:
"All is fine and dandy in Pleasantville."

Maybe if people in Utah would`nt reproduce like rabbits the schools wouldn`t be over crowded. Maybe parents should have have to pay so much for each child they have enrolled in school. That way they would have to pay for their own children`s education.

Every proposition to REDUCE taxes I can recall in my 49 years has been voted down. Almost every proposition to INCREASE taxes has passed.

And WE scratch our heads and wonder how this happens and point our finger at someone in government? You can blame the government for proposing the tax increases but you can only blame yourself for campaigning for them and passing them.

I tried to get my friends to vote FOR the Sales Tax reduction plan Merrill Cook proposed, but the scare-tactics kicked in and WE voted it down and told Cook to hit the road (because he continued to propose lowering taxes).

Most recently I tried to get my neighbors to not take the bait and vote to increase my sales taxes (because I live in SL County). All the politicians had to do was promise us transit projects and we gladly voted to raise our taxes.

(NOTE: Has ANYONE seen any new Transit Projects in SL County yet)? Hmmmm.... Yet WE keep voting to raise taxes (thinking we'll get something for it) and WE keep voting AGAINST lowering taxes (Afraid we will lose our pet-program or something).

If YOU vote this way YOU-are-the-reason-for-our-current-high-tax-rate-so-shut-up!

Utah has a very high birth rate. That means more kids per taxpaying adult. That means higher taxes per taxpaying adult.

Utahns made this bed and now they get to sleep in it.

And there goes another driver of a SUV parking in their 4 car garage of their mcmansion.

Yet we can't get education spending out of last place.

People that keep saying "throw money at it" are really clueless.

We can't even get teachers to take jobs in Utah.

You'd better start doing something with the money that attracts decent teachers. The job isn't getting any easier...

To "Overtaxed":
You suggest we eliminate property tax. That is the local tax. Eliminate it and we eliminate funding local governments locally. Unfortunately we are already part way there, since sales tax funds most of local cities now. Governments serve those who directly pay the bill. The more we fund local governments with state or federal taxes, i.e. sales and income tax, the less local control and fiscal responsibility we get from local governments.

Eliminating property tax would be the WORST possible thing we could do. We already have lost much of local governing. We need to protect the three LEVELS of government as much as the three BRANCHES of government.

To Dutchman:

Actually, the income tax is used to fund education, both public and higher ed, not just public ed. Of course, I already knew that, but you didn't.

My comment was regarding taking the pressure off of the property tax, which mostly goes to public ed (about 75% of my property tax goes to the schools). I'd rather use sales or income tax instead or property tax to fund our schools.

I am waiting for some lunatic conservative to start screaming: "Taxation is socialism!"

You don't even live in Utah. Why are you commenting on this subject?

And why do you keep using "WE" when you say "WE" need to increase per-pupil spending? Are you going to start paying Utah taxes? Do your kids attend Utah schools?

Why are you obsessed with all things Utah?

re: waiting,

I'm waiting for the conservative lunatic "taxation is slavery" meme to kick in. Oh, wait, nevermind.

Chuck:

Let's count those 3 levels of government: (1) federal, (2) state, (3) county, (4) city, (5) school district, (6) water district, (7) sewer district, (8) mosquito abatement district, (9) cemetery district, (10) unified fire authority, ...

3 levels sounds nice and balanced, but it's not reality.

"Waiting" -- As long as you insist on living in a world populated by figments of your imagination, you'll be waiting a long time.

Since when is per-pupil spending a good measure of a state's education system? In any other enterprise, you measure success not by units of input, but by units of output per unit of input. California spends more than twice as much per student as Utah does, but it for dang sure doesn't get twice as much value. That's because California's bloated educational bureaucracy slurps up tons of money, as does the expense of repairing inner-city schools whose students wreck them as fast as contractors (who are overpaid, thanks to the influence of organized labor over school bureaucracies) can put them back together.

Utah's students do about as well as you would expect from Utah's demographic makeup.