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LDS black leaders call for spirit of unity
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Jon W. | 12:25 p.m. June 9, 2008
My personal opinion is that the Lord will require some things under some
circumstances that he absolutely forbids generally, in order to fulfill specific
parts of his great plan. For instance, Nephi was commanded to kill Laban to
obtain the brass plates. This "extra-legal" killing was something
that was and is forbidden generally, but in this instance it was absolutely
essential to the survival of Lehi's and Nephi's children as a unique
people of the Lord. Then, the rebellious members of the family (the Lamanites)
were separated from the faithful, and given a racial mark so they wouldn't
be enticing to the children of the faithful. This too was absolutely essential
to the survival of the group of faithful, the doctrines, etc. Later on this
mark became non-essential, the gospel was taken to the Lamanites, and many
became converted and at times, the converted Lamanites saved the church from
destruction. Similarly, in the latter days there have been at least two
doctrines temporarily in place that were absolutely essential to the survival of
the restored church, but have since become unnecessary and have been rescinded:
withholding the priesthood from those of African decent and plural marriage.
Non-Mormon Cares | 12:36 p.m. June 9, 2008
Wow. Quite frankly I am surprised how few Mormon bashers there are in here, and
how well received the article was!
I think it's great that people can look at articles like this constructively.
In my own personal opinion, I can see why the change was made when it was, and knowing the Mormons I do and from my own knowledge of the times then, I highly doubt it was out of racial prejudice.
Mormons are good people, anyone who says differently doesn't know them.
I think it's great that people can look at articles like this constructively.
In my own personal opinion, I can see why the change was made when it was, and knowing the Mormons I do and from my own knowledge of the times then, I highly doubt it was out of racial prejudice.
Mormons are good people, anyone who says differently doesn't know them.
Who was responsible? | 12:37 p.m. June 9, 2008
Which leader of the Church should we hold responsible for the witholding of the
Priesthood from blacks? Why did Church General Authorites prolong the practice?
I thought that a true prophet couldn't mislead the Church?
I thought that a true prophet couldn't mislead the Church?
Comments continue below
sure | 12:39 p.m. June 9, 2008
Spirit of unity?
Next they'll have us believe the LDS-laden Utah legislature will be honoring Martin Luther King Day like the rest of the normal country.
Next they'll have us believe the LDS-laden Utah legislature will be honoring Martin Luther King Day like the rest of the normal country.
Just a thought | 1:27 p.m. June 9, 2008
I am certain God love's All people of the earth and has been that way since
the begining. It is our own weaknesses that hold us back. having said that, the
church grows and develops over time like any organization, we learn and do new
things, we become a better people.
It is possible that our own weaknesses as a society hold us back from the greater blessings, only when we are ready can God bless us. I am sure that those of african descent are loved equally, He weeps for the suffering they have endured. God does not change to please us, we change so we can be like him that holds true in church policy.
It is possible that our own weaknesses as a society hold us back from the greater blessings, only when we are ready can God bless us. I am sure that those of african descent are loved equally, He weeps for the suffering they have endured. God does not change to please us, we change so we can be like him that holds true in church policy.
Jon B. Holbrook | 1:32 p.m. June 9, 2008
I am very happy that the LDS Church formally sponsored the event commemorating
the 1978 Priesthood Revelation. That revelation showed through divine
revelation, the Brotherhood of Man. That God, is indeed, no resector of persons.
The demostrators showed that they advocate just the opposite and have been
caught in their lies.
Re: "The reason" | 1:33 p.m. June 9, 2008
It's hard to believe that God didn't allow priesthood for blacks
because society wasn't ready for it. That suggests that God sways with
public opinion, that his morals are set by humans and not vice versa.
Deborah | 1:36 p.m. June 9, 2008
I have been a member since 1970. I was given a witness by the Holy Ghost that
this gospel is true. I know it is. I cannot begin to explain why the blacks were
given the priesthood by Joseph Smith and then not thereafter. I didn't even
know that until I read these comments.
I wept for joy when the priesthood was given to all worthy males in 1978. I am amazed at the faith shown by those that had to wait such a long time to receive it and of those that remained faithful and went to their deaths without it.
Let's just all get along. I just don't understand hatred or prejudice of any kind. We should love all people as our Father in Heaven commands us. If you believe the gospel is true, live it.
God bless us everyone.
I wept for joy when the priesthood was given to all worthy males in 1978. I am amazed at the faith shown by those that had to wait such a long time to receive it and of those that remained faithful and went to their deaths without it.
Let's just all get along. I just don't understand hatred or prejudice of any kind. We should love all people as our Father in Heaven commands us. If you believe the gospel is true, live it.
God bless us everyone.
RE: AARON | 1:40 p.m. June 9, 2008
If Aaron had the integrity he talks about, he would admit that he and his MRM
Anti-Mormon Group don't particularly care about the Blacks / Priesthood
issue, but really care about making the Church look bad however and whenever
possible. The Church could not have possibly did or said anything that would
have satisfied them.
stop and think | 1:44 p.m. June 9, 2008
Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe the whole thing has been made up?
A.A.T | 1:49 p.m. June 9, 2008
In my opinion:
Racism was part of the reason blacks were withheld the priesthood.
I say that not in an accusatory way, because the curse of racism existed not only in the church, but extended throughout the whole of society.
And still does exist, but thankfully not to the degree it did in the past.
Indeed, the LDS church should have always been held to a higher standard than that,
But I believe some revelations of the Lord will only be given if and when the members are willing to accept them.
I believe the LDS church wouldn't exist without the efforts of Martin Luther (the german Monk).
And perhaps subsequent revelations wouldn't exist without the efforts of Martin Luther (King).
I DO believe these revelations come from God to the prophets.
But we can also, in hindsight, realize the condition of the soil upon which these revelations could be planted in the hearts of mankind.
Racism was part of the reason blacks were withheld the priesthood.
I say that not in an accusatory way, because the curse of racism existed not only in the church, but extended throughout the whole of society.
And still does exist, but thankfully not to the degree it did in the past.
Indeed, the LDS church should have always been held to a higher standard than that,
But I believe some revelations of the Lord will only be given if and when the members are willing to accept them.
I believe the LDS church wouldn't exist without the efforts of Martin Luther (the german Monk).
And perhaps subsequent revelations wouldn't exist without the efforts of Martin Luther (King).
I DO believe these revelations come from God to the prophets.
But we can also, in hindsight, realize the condition of the soil upon which these revelations could be planted in the hearts of mankind.
mil. wife | 1:53 p.m. June 9, 2008
Wow, I am surprised at some of the comments made here. Don't these people
travel? My husband is in the military, and we have been blessed to live and
attend church literally corner to corner and all over this great country. We
have made wonderful friends, of all races and backgrounds, none of whom seemed
that wrapped up in this issue. I have never met any (white) person who
didn't think all races should hold the priesthood, (even when we lived in
Mississippi!) and the only person I have heard talk about it being a difficult
time was living in South Africa at the time of the announcement. We have lived
in many racially diverse wards, and the depth and breadth of experiences was
such a blessing to the strength of the ward. I am greatful for all my family in
the gospel, for their strength and example to me and to my family. Stop huddling
in the shadows, and step into the light!
Dave Thomas | 2:13 p.m. June 9, 2008
Re: mil. wife:
Who (and what) are you talking about? Nobody here is complaining that LDS blacks may now have the priesthood. The only topic being debated is why and how the ban was established and lifted.
Who (and what) are you talking about? Nobody here is complaining that LDS blacks may now have the priesthood. The only topic being debated is why and how the ban was established and lifted.
announcement forthcoming? | 2:24 p.m. June 9, 2008
So, when do you think the announcement will be made that for the first time in
history, the Utah State Legislature will be taking the day off next Martin
Luther King Day?
A distinction... | 2:27 p.m. June 9, 2008
The comment about the Levite tribe being the only one to receive the priesthood
is nonsensical. In ancient Israel they lived the law of Moses, completely
different from the laws given by the Saviour. He told his apostles to take the
gospel to all the world and in fact the New Testament has a story of an
Ethiopian receiving the gospel. The ban on blacks in the priesthood did NOT
have to be. As was pointed out, JS ordained a black man to the priesthood. BY
was simply a racist, as was most of the country. This racism continued up until
the time of Spencer W. Kimball and ended then because of threats to yank the
church's tax emempt status over it's continued racist policies. End
of story. Now this is not an anti comment...Peter in New Testament times was
racist against "gentiles", yet the Lord still worked with him, even
though he was a racist. He learned, he grew up. We have too. I'm sorry
it took so long. I sorry people suffered for no reason. God lets us do what we
want and does not always immediately correct us.
True or Not True? | 2:32 p.m. June 9, 2008
What all this comes down to, is one question. Is the LDS Church true or
isn't it? If it is, then pretty much all these posts (especially the
negative ones) are of zero value in this discussion. Why? Because if it's
true, then all the history and the waiting until 1978, WAS GOD'S WILL.
Question and condemn to your heart's content - the owes an apology to no
one!
True or Not True? | 2:33 p.m. June 9, 2008
My apology - Ment to say, "The Church owes an apology to no one".
btw: The Church is true!
btw: The Church is true!
STT | 2:40 p.m. June 9, 2008
This is a wonderful story. However, I think the "Old guard" still
exist in many ways and there is still a fear and lack of understanding. Not
just with our white brothers, but also with our black brothers. This is, what I
would call a culture difference that exist and will continue to exist. It is
this experience of worship and love that makes us unique but even more amazing
when we understand it's purpose. We must not be afraid to stand up for who
we our. I said it is not Black and White, but color that gives us the well round
feeling of the spirit of the gospel, that is important. We have a great
hertiage that we (Black People) should know and share with others. I think we
can see this clearly in the DVD's "Black's in the The
Scriptures".
would like to believe | 2:42 p.m. June 9, 2008
I am quite sure you would like to believe the church is true 'True or Not
True?'
But the fact is Joseph Smith was either telling the truth or was lying and there is no solid proof that he was not lying.
But the fact is Joseph Smith was either telling the truth or was lying and there is no solid proof that he was not lying.
California Saint | 2:44 p.m. June 9, 2008
My daughter went last night to the celebration in the Tabernacle--she said it
was very spiritual--especially when Alex Boyle sang "How Great Thou
Art". She said he sang as if he had personal knowledge of the words in that
glorious Hymn. She spoke with Fred A. Parker, president of the Atlanta Stake,
after the meeting--she served in the Atlanta Georgia Mission and loves this man.
I am so excited she got to attend something so special and historic. Our family
loves black people--we acknowledge their spirituality and rejoice with them in
the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Jared | 2:47 p.m. June 9, 2008
If we look back in the history of the Church we find a time when no one but Jews
were able to hold the priesthood of God. Then Peter received a vision that now
it was time for the Gentiles to receive the priesthood. Perhaps almost 4000
years went by and the Lord limited the priesthood to one particular cultural
group and then whole rest of the world was denied the priesthood. Why there do
people judge the Lord for waiting almost another 2000 years to extend the
blessing of the priesthood to the rest of the world.
I am just happy that today all can hold his priesthood. We should just be grateful that he see all are now able through righteousness to hold his power.
If other Christians have a problem with God withholding the priesthood then they should just open their Bible and see that God has chosen to do just that more than once before.
I am just happy that today all can hold his priesthood. We should just be grateful that he see all are now able through righteousness to hold his power.
If other Christians have a problem with God withholding the priesthood then they should just open their Bible and see that God has chosen to do just that more than once before.
interesting coincidence | 2:55 p.m. June 9, 2008
This just in: A black man may be president of the US.
Coincidentally, the LDS church says it is and never way racist.
Coincidentally, the LDS church says it is and never way racist.
Interesting | 2:56 p.m. June 9, 2008
Sometimes we have a hard time coming to terms with our past and when things
don't fit into the nice mold into which we have pegged ourselves, we get
flustered and defensive. No need. The Lord is guiding His church. The
deficiencies are ours. We (along with all the "white" folk in the
U.S.) were struggling to overcome our prejudices in the 70's. Whether Pres
Kimball received a revelation that "All worthy males" receive the
priesthood because God suddenly decided to bequeath it, or because the church
wasn't ready for it until 1978 or both, doesn't make it any less of a
revelation and actually shows that the church can grow and change and still have
sound doctrines, which also grow and change as we learn to accept Hiw will. Stay
tuned. The future will be exciting!!!
re: A distinction... | 3:07 p.m. June 9, 2008
It's so very easy for people (especially in our politically correct
environment of today) to label people "racist". I surmise from your
comment that you're LDS. If so, and assuming you've read much of the
other posts here, then based upon your definition (Brigham Young being a
racist), God is also a racist. The evidence throughout all scripture (BofM
included), is clear from the beginning of time, that the priesthood was either
withheld all together or restricted from many people.
It amazes me how members of the church can profess having a testimony of Joseph Smith, the Church and the Resoration; yet, accept with reservations, the prophets of this despensation. From the moment we begin to qualift our loyalty and begin questioning the prophets, we've set our foot down the road to apostasy.
I wonder how you'd respond to a call from our current living prophet, to make some great sacrifice - based simply upon your obedience, without any explanation as to why.
It amazes me how members of the church can profess having a testimony of Joseph Smith, the Church and the Resoration; yet, accept with reservations, the prophets of this despensation. From the moment we begin to qualift our loyalty and begin questioning the prophets, we've set our foot down the road to apostasy.
I wonder how you'd respond to a call from our current living prophet, to make some great sacrifice - based simply upon your obedience, without any explanation as to why.
a very honest man | 3:22 p.m. June 9, 2008
A good, very devout Mormon friend of mine once told me in earnest:
"The biggest problem we Mormons have is discerning revelation."
I respect him for his candor and honesty.
"The biggest problem we Mormons have is discerning revelation."
I respect him for his candor and honesty.
In CA | 3:55 p.m. June 9, 2008
To: Anonymous | 10:53 a.m. June 9, 2008
You say "Why do Black church leaders have to call for unity? After 30 years -- more than a generation -- since the 1978 declaration why isn't there already unity?"
You are only reading what you want to support your bias against faith. Please read further in the article.
"Parker issued a personal invitation to "every nation, kindred, tongue and people to explore the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Find out for yourselves and act on the promptings of the holy spirit.""
The unity he is asking for is all of mankind to unite. Many like you like to dwell in the past rather than move forward. You have yet learned to embrace all of man kind.
You say "Why do Black church leaders have to call for unity? After 30 years -- more than a generation -- since the 1978 declaration why isn't there already unity?"
You are only reading what you want to support your bias against faith. Please read further in the article.
"Parker issued a personal invitation to "every nation, kindred, tongue and people to explore the true gospel of Jesus Christ. Find out for yourselves and act on the promptings of the holy spirit.""
The unity he is asking for is all of mankind to unite. Many like you like to dwell in the past rather than move forward. You have yet learned to embrace all of man kind.
Samme | 4:03 p.m. June 9, 2008
"Hinckley made it very clear that there was no room for racism in the
church."
Yet the church discourages interracial marriage.
Go figure.
Yet the church discourages interracial marriage.
Go figure.
Marion | 4:13 p.m. June 9, 2008
To RE: a Distinction:
God is Racist? You can't mean that in the accepted definition of the word Racist. That he withheld certain things at certain times does not speak to racism but rather expediency......there were reasons, some of which we may understand, some not yet.
I am so pleased to read these comments, which for the most part are level-headed and well thought out on all sides of this discussion. Looks like the Unity message is getting across doesn't it?' "Our Savior said "Come let us reason together!" How exciting to see reasonable people of different opinions state them without rancor or "cheap shots" and to see clear kind responses.
Refreshing indeed.
God is Racist? You can't mean that in the accepted definition of the word Racist. That he withheld certain things at certain times does not speak to racism but rather expediency......there were reasons, some of which we may understand, some not yet.
I am so pleased to read these comments, which for the most part are level-headed and well thought out on all sides of this discussion. Looks like the Unity message is getting across doesn't it?' "Our Savior said "Come let us reason together!" How exciting to see reasonable people of different opinions state them without rancor or "cheap shots" and to see clear kind responses.
Refreshing indeed.
wrz | 4:15 p.m. June 9, 2008
"wrz, God's love for the Jews was based on unconditional love, not a
racist "you [insert skin color or ethnic group] were more valiant in the
pre-existence" doctrine." - Aaron
God's love for any race (Jew or otherwise) over other could be construed as racist. Of course, God can be racist if He wishes. I, for one, will not step in His way.
"Grace by its nature isn't obligatory. Justice is."
The whole justice/grace issue was put away 2000 years ago when Christ cleared the slate with his death. The price has been paid for a thousand sins... and more.
God's love for any race (Jew or otherwise) over other could be construed as racist. Of course, God can be racist if He wishes. I, for one, will not step in His way.
"Grace by its nature isn't obligatory. Justice is."
The whole justice/grace issue was put away 2000 years ago when Christ cleared the slate with his death. The price has been paid for a thousand sins... and more.
Marion | 4:21 p.m. June 9, 2008
Marion again....when I said that God was expedient in bringing forth some
things, I want to be clear that I didn't mean trying to be
"politically correct" but rather using good sense. Small example: a
good farmer would not plant seeds in the wrong season and expect to see them
grow properly if at all, he/she waits for the proper season if desired results
are to be expected.
African Missionary | 4:31 p.m. June 9, 2008
Having just returned, with my spouse, from serving a mission in West Africa, I
can attest that there are no finer people in the world than the African saints.
It seems useless, and fruitless, to argue with those who feel the Church owes an
apology for waiting to give black men the priesthood, but I have spent time with
many men there who received a testimony that The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints is truly the Lord's restored church long before they were
able to hold the priesthood. Several shared sacred personal experiences in
which they were "told" that the time was not yet - but would soon
come- when they would, under the Lord's direction, receive the priesthood.
Many saints such as the humble "Reverend" John "Billy"
Johnson, now a Stake Patriarch, were given a sure knowledge that this was the
case. They seek no "apology," bear solemn personal testimony of the
truth, express gratitude for the Lord's loving guidance, and honor their
priesthood completely. What a joy it is to see our beautiful brothers and
sisters there coming into the Church in overwhelming numbers. How we hope more
here will do so.
Anonymous | 4:37 p.m. June 9, 2008
All of this is so exciting!
Now Utah will surely join the ranks of the rest of this great country and honor Martin Luther King by sending the Utah Legislation home on his special day.
This will show the world Utah and its culture is NOT racist.
Now Utah will surely join the ranks of the rest of this great country and honor Martin Luther King by sending the Utah Legislation home on his special day.
This will show the world Utah and its culture is NOT racist.
Emsfamily | 4:40 p.m. June 9, 2008
Responding to: "a brief perusal of the B of M will give you volumes of
racist connotations that may NEVER go away."
Yeah, like 2 Nephi 26:33, where it says about black, white, male, female--that all are alike unto God.
We adopted a black daughter into our white family. She's awesome, she's sealed to us in the temple, and we are loved and supported without exception or condition in the LDS church.
The only bigotry I've encountered while growing up in the church came from outside the church: from those who spit venom at the very mention of Mormons or LDS.
But bigotry against the LDS church and its members isn't that surprising. People don't throw rocks at a tree unless there's fruit on it.
Yeah, like 2 Nephi 26:33, where it says about black, white, male, female--that all are alike unto God.
We adopted a black daughter into our white family. She's awesome, she's sealed to us in the temple, and we are loved and supported without exception or condition in the LDS church.
The only bigotry I've encountered while growing up in the church came from outside the church: from those who spit venom at the very mention of Mormons or LDS.
But bigotry against the LDS church and its members isn't that surprising. People don't throw rocks at a tree unless there's fruit on it.
Sad, isn't it? | 4:41 p.m. June 9, 2008
So sorry it took so long. So many "what ifs". So sorry so many
members felt a need to leave the Church because of this issue.
Rob | 4:49 p.m. June 9, 2008
Anno. wote this AM @6:40 "no-one points out that ezra taft benson actually
ran with george wallace, in his fight for the white house."
NO-ONE points it out because it NEVER HAPPENED!
keep throwing things out and people might believe this. Please site any reference. People might remember if it actualy happened.
NO-ONE points it out because it NEVER HAPPENED!
keep throwing things out and people might believe this. Please site any reference. People might remember if it actualy happened.
John Lambert | 4:50 p.m. June 9, 2008
To Samme,
On what ground do you claim The Church discourages interracial marriages. In one ward on my mission there were five couples where the wife was black and the husband was wife. Although only in two cases was the husband a member, in none was the wife's standing in the church threatend.
In my stake at a minimum there are at least seven couples where one spouse is of African descent and the other is not. There was another couple that moved away not long ago because of job opportunities elsewhere.
I have known church members who expressed opposition to inter-racial marriage, but I challenge anyone to come up with an official church statement against inter-racial marriage.
On what ground do you claim The Church discourages interracial marriages. In one ward on my mission there were five couples where the wife was black and the husband was wife. Although only in two cases was the husband a member, in none was the wife's standing in the church threatend.
In my stake at a minimum there are at least seven couples where one spouse is of African descent and the other is not. There was another couple that moved away not long ago because of job opportunities elsewhere.
I have known church members who expressed opposition to inter-racial marriage, but I challenge anyone to come up with an official church statement against inter-racial marriage.
NSEW | 5:07 p.m. June 9, 2008
>It's obvious you haven't been to the South.
Or the North, or the West, or the East...
Or the North, or the West, or the East...
James | 5:09 p.m. June 9, 2008
This is not surprising to me!
The Bishop of my Ward in Ireland is a lovely Black Man whose equally lovely wife is a White Lady, and they have been Sealed in the Temple of the Lord. There is nothing extraordinary about this and he is Sustained and Loved as a very fine Servant of the Lord.
What is difficult for me is to have to refer to one Person as Black and another as White, in writing this comment, as it is so natural to see them as Leaders, not as people of different skin colour!
The Gospel depends on Righteous Leaders irrespective of their Race or appearance.
It is not for me to query the Lord's Plan. It is for me to Sustain his Leaders and the Gospel.
The Bishop of my Ward in Ireland is a lovely Black Man whose equally lovely wife is a White Lady, and they have been Sealed in the Temple of the Lord. There is nothing extraordinary about this and he is Sustained and Loved as a very fine Servant of the Lord.
What is difficult for me is to have to refer to one Person as Black and another as White, in writing this comment, as it is so natural to see them as Leaders, not as people of different skin colour!
The Gospel depends on Righteous Leaders irrespective of their Race or appearance.
It is not for me to query the Lord's Plan. It is for me to Sustain his Leaders and the Gospel.
Jews | 5:12 p.m. June 9, 2008
I think the Jews owe us all an apology for limiting the priesthood under the Law
of Moses to only the Levites.
Oh, and then there's that thing about Jesus teaching the Samaritan woman, then saying it was only for the Jews, then having it go to the Gentiles and not the Jews. When are we going to get the explanation for that? When do we get our reparations?
Hmmmm. I wonder how many other ways I can think of to be a whiner and manufacture victimhood where none really exists....
Oh, and then there's that thing about Jesus teaching the Samaritan woman, then saying it was only for the Jews, then having it go to the Gentiles and not the Jews. When are we going to get the explanation for that? When do we get our reparations?
Hmmmm. I wonder how many other ways I can think of to be a whiner and manufacture victimhood where none really exists....
Elder Mark E. Peterson | 5:26 p.m. June 9, 2008
God has commanded Israel not to intermarry. To go against this commandment of
God would be in sin. Those who willfully sin with their eyes open to this wrong
will not be surprised to find that they will be separated from the presence of
God in the world to come. This is spiritual death....
katamb-Midvale | 5:44 p.m. June 9, 2008
I was SO DISAPPOINTED this was not televised on BYU-TV or KBYU.
Anonymous | 6:00 p.m. June 9, 2008
"A good, very devout Mormon friend of mine once told me in earnest:
"The biggest problem we Mormons have is discerning revelation."
I respect him for his candor and honesty."
I think your friend is very right! Gays and women are still waiting for the church to listen to the revelation that's SCREAMING at them.
"The biggest problem we Mormons have is discerning revelation."
I respect him for his candor and honesty."
I think your friend is very right! Gays and women are still waiting for the church to listen to the revelation that's SCREAMING at them.
John Lambert | 6:28 p.m. June 9, 2008
To the 5:26 poster:
If you are trying to use this as an example of the Church teaching against inter-racial marriage you have major problems.
To began with this is a statement from a member of the quorum of the 12. I have a much clearer statement from Spencer W. Kimball that inter-racial marriage is no sin.
Second, when did Mark E. Peterson make this statement, in light of Elder McConkie's statement about how we need to reject whatever he or anyone else said before OD 2 that was not in agreement with it.
Thirdly, that quote on its own does not prove anything. The distinction between being Israel and non-Israe is a difference between the faithful followers of God and those who are not. Elder Peterson may have explicated that statement more, but on its own it has no bearing on race at all.
If you are trying to use this as an example of the Church teaching against inter-racial marriage you have major problems.
To began with this is a statement from a member of the quorum of the 12. I have a much clearer statement from Spencer W. Kimball that inter-racial marriage is no sin.
Second, when did Mark E. Peterson make this statement, in light of Elder McConkie's statement about how we need to reject whatever he or anyone else said before OD 2 that was not in agreement with it.
Thirdly, that quote on its own does not prove anything. The distinction between being Israel and non-Israe is a difference between the faithful followers of God and those who are not. Elder Peterson may have explicated that statement more, but on its own it has no bearing on race at all.
Nope | 6:30 p.m. June 9, 2008
>Gays and women are still waiting for the church to listen to the revelation
that's SCREAMING at them.
God doesn't scream. Only Satan does.
God doesn't scream. Only Satan does.
John Lambert | 6:34 p.m. June 9, 2008
To compare the current standing of women in the LDS Church to blacks before
1978 is a false analogy.
Women have full access to the temple. Blacks were not allowed to enter the temple in most cases before 1978 although I believe there were a few exceptions.
Most women in the church do not feel that the status of women in the church demands for change. In the pre-1978 era most black members and many white members felt that the will of the Lord would be revealed at some future day and all worthy males would hold the priesthood.
Spencer W. Kimball also stated that as long as men had bodies to defile the Lord would oppose homosexuality. I do not care how much people argue otherwise. Inter-racial marriage can produce children in the normal way through normal biological processes, same-gender marriage can not.
Women have full access to the temple. Blacks were not allowed to enter the temple in most cases before 1978 although I believe there were a few exceptions.
Most women in the church do not feel that the status of women in the church demands for change. In the pre-1978 era most black members and many white members felt that the will of the Lord would be revealed at some future day and all worthy males would hold the priesthood.
Spencer W. Kimball also stated that as long as men had bodies to defile the Lord would oppose homosexuality. I do not care how much people argue otherwise. Inter-racial marriage can produce children in the normal way through normal biological processes, same-gender marriage can not.
Anonymous | 6:48 p.m. June 9, 2008
Well, I tried to submit several citations from prominent LDS leaders on this
particular subject that would conclusively present the Church's take on
this issue but the person monitoring my post must have felt them to be
"abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative"
Such is the way it is in Utah.
Such is the way it is in Utah.
Inter-cultural marriage | 7:18 p.m. June 9, 2008
I do remember President Kimball warning of problems arising in inter-cultural
marriages. He said marriage was difficult without adding cultural
differences--which may be why 2 of my western-raised, take your faith in your
hands, you can accomplish anything you want to work for, take life calmly, boys
had troubled marriages with girls raised in security-conscious, highly emotional
Italian Catholic families on the east coast. Nothing wrong with Italian
Catholics, either. But the ways of looking at things were just totally
different and sure did lead to problems. The rest of my boys married western
girls from rather similar family backgrounds and have had only normal maritial
struggles (marriage is hard work, if you haven't noticed).
I am sure someone will hammer me for being prejudiced, but I don't know how to explain the situation any better in so few words. As an American with people from many countries in my family history, I had NO clue of the cultural differences between the way westerners and easterners looked at things or that it would make a bit of difference in marriages.
So President Kimball was warning of potential problems, not commenting on superiority one over another.
I am sure someone will hammer me for being prejudiced, but I don't know how to explain the situation any better in so few words. As an American with people from many countries in my family history, I had NO clue of the cultural differences between the way westerners and easterners looked at things or that it would make a bit of difference in marriages.
So President Kimball was warning of potential problems, not commenting on superiority one over another.
Mirian | 7:22 p.m. June 9, 2008
I believe this article matches the level of consciousness of a
telestial/terrestrial world. In the Celestial Kingdom we are not defined by the
color of our body but by the light of our body (the glory of the sun). And the
greatest leader needs to become like a little children to enter in the Kingdom
of Heaven.
Eastern LDS mom | 7:39 p.m. June 9, 2008
I dont fully understand the declaration on blacks but I watched the documetnary
on BYUTV about "Pioneers in Africa". There faith and stereadfastness
was truly inspiring. Its worth a watch if it cpomes up again for anyone want ing
to see it from a black belivers perpective. The Lord did not leave them alone
depsite what happened.
zoar | 7:55 p.m. June 9, 2008
It is sad that people condemn Brigham Young for his views on Blacks and the
priesthood. Yet very few know that Brigham also prophesied that at some future
time they would be allowed all the blessings of the gospel including the
priesthood. Less than 100 years later his prophecy was fulfilled.
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Alex Boye sings at the Tabernacle during the commemoration of the 30th anniversary of the announcement extending the LDS priesthood to "all worthy males."
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