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California court denies Shurtleff request to delay same-sex marriages
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Anonymous | 5:49 p.m. June 4, 2008
To ME -
Good stuff Me.
But those who have once lived in Utah and who now live elsewhere find their way to this site to lend moral support to those they left behind.
It can be quite a frustrating experience living behind the Zion Curtain and not being of Zion.
Good stuff Me.
But those who have once lived in Utah and who now live elsewhere find their way to this site to lend moral support to those they left behind.
It can be quite a frustrating experience living behind the Zion Curtain and not being of Zion.
Anonymous | 5:52 p.m. June 4, 2008
"Those who claim people are "wired" to be gay miss the point. I
am "wired" to be attracted to the opposite sex. Whether I act on those
urges is still a choice. When I get married, I make a commitment to my spouse to
act on those urges only for her, to control my urges, biological or otherwise.
"
And, of course, having a marriage is what makes it possible for you to have sexual relief and to keep your covenants. Meanwhile, you are attempting to deny that same relief to all gay individuals and offer them nothing but a life of loneliness and frustration.
Where is their right to the pursuit of happiness? How can you be happy in a marriage when you deny the same basic domestic happiness to your fellow man?
And, of course, having a marriage is what makes it possible for you to have sexual relief and to keep your covenants. Meanwhile, you are attempting to deny that same relief to all gay individuals and offer them nothing but a life of loneliness and frustration.
Where is their right to the pursuit of happiness? How can you be happy in a marriage when you deny the same basic domestic happiness to your fellow man?
Comments continue below
ExMoWeHoMo | 6:11 p.m. June 4, 2008
@ME:
So if California is due for another big earth quake, how does your superstition explain the bible belt being plagued with tornadoes.
Using your logic I like to think god is angry that they added bigoted marriage amendments to their constitution.
So if California is due for another big earth quake, how does your superstition explain the bible belt being plagued with tornadoes.
Using your logic I like to think god is angry that they added bigoted marriage amendments to their constitution.
K.C. | 6:10 p.m. June 4, 2008
Me wrote:
"People outside of Utah read the Deseret News.
Why?
I'm guessing because they are either interested in what is happening in Utah (meaning they are LDS), or they want to bash on those who live here (meaning they are anti-LDS, including LDS people who like to bash on other LDS people - go figure)"
I can only speak for myself but I'm reading the Deseret News because, here I was in California, minding my own business, when your Chuckle-Headed Attorney General sent this letter to our Supreme Court asking for some special consideration concerning one of its rulings. Imagine!
If not for that I wouldn't be reading the D.N.
"People outside of Utah read the Deseret News.
Why?
I'm guessing because they are either interested in what is happening in Utah (meaning they are LDS), or they want to bash on those who live here (meaning they are anti-LDS, including LDS people who like to bash on other LDS people - go figure)"
I can only speak for myself but I'm reading the Deseret News because, here I was in California, minding my own business, when your Chuckle-Headed Attorney General sent this letter to our Supreme Court asking for some special consideration concerning one of its rulings. Imagine!
If not for that I wouldn't be reading the D.N.
Anonymous | 6:26 p.m. June 4, 2008
To Gays, get counseling. Your life style is wrong and not compatible to
anything on this earth.
STRAIT | 6:58 p.m. June 4, 2008
I will never go on vacation to CA again. I refuse to enter any place who would
discriminate me and hate me for being strait or not agreeing with them. Even
Utah is getting that way. Look at all these sorry sickening comments people are
making. SLC is extremely liberal and shows bitter hate toward strait people who
do not agree with everything that liberal people think. Rocky Anderson is much
to blame for this and making gay people dare to act hostile toward strait
people. Where are our rights?
If I acted like they did toward strait people to them I would go to jail or get sued.
If I acted like they did toward strait people to them I would go to jail or get sued.
DBW | 7:09 p.m. June 4, 2008
The battle-cry "Tolerance!" is powerful. Examining the common
responses to proponents of "traditional marriage", one usually finds
claims that such a position is full of hate and bigotry. The argument
essentially attempts to scare all of us into abandoning any opinions that are,
in fact, based on our moral values because someone else has different moral
values.
Tolerance is fundamental to civic society, but modern attitudes of tolerance are unacceptable. I think that the reason that the younger generation is more accepting of what traditionally would be classified as immoral behavior is not because we disagree with the behavior but because we afraid that any opposition would be intolerant. Tolerance should not demand unconditional acceptance and lowest-common-moral-value public policy regarding behavior. Rather, tolerance fosters mutual respect and common dignity.
The principle of agency espoused by the LDS church and scorned by critics is not a doctrine that all choices are equally regarded. Rather, it is that every choice has consequences (not chosen but governed by eternal law). It is perfectly consistent and desirable to seek to establish public laws that are consistent with your moral views.
Having said that, there is plenty of true intolerance manifest on both sides here.
Tolerance is fundamental to civic society, but modern attitudes of tolerance are unacceptable. I think that the reason that the younger generation is more accepting of what traditionally would be classified as immoral behavior is not because we disagree with the behavior but because we afraid that any opposition would be intolerant. Tolerance should not demand unconditional acceptance and lowest-common-moral-value public policy regarding behavior. Rather, tolerance fosters mutual respect and common dignity.
The principle of agency espoused by the LDS church and scorned by critics is not a doctrine that all choices are equally regarded. Rather, it is that every choice has consequences (not chosen but governed by eternal law). It is perfectly consistent and desirable to seek to establish public laws that are consistent with your moral views.
Having said that, there is plenty of true intolerance manifest on both sides here.
Laker fan | 7:11 p.m. June 4, 2008
Yeah for CA! Boo to the Jazz for not keeping John Amechei and to Sloan for being
mean to him.
Hopefully our kind will take over basketball and sports will no longer be dominated by tough mean men. Sports will be more colorful and sweet to watch.
GO LAKERS!
Hopefully our kind will take over basketball and sports will no longer be dominated by tough mean men. Sports will be more colorful and sweet to watch.
GO LAKERS!
marcus | 7:23 p.m. June 4, 2008
Yah lost me. Why is Utah worried about California? Utah needs to worry about
Utah... legally, socially, morally, criminally, etc.
Utah trying to tell Calif. what to do.
stupid.
Utah trying to tell Calif. what to do.
stupid.
John Lambert | 7:32 p.m. June 4, 2008
I would urge people to read Elder Oaks talk in this last general conference.
We need to not threaten to kick people out purely because we disagree with
either their behaviors or their beliefs.
On the other hand, I do testify that only marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to our eternal destiny. I want to advance all of God's children and so I will promote and advance the true definition of the family and oppose revisions of that definition that denigrate historical biological definitions.
At the same time, I will speak out against people who are willing to seek to force people out of an area because of their beliefs.
On the other hand, I do testify that only marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to our eternal destiny. I want to advance all of God's children and so I will promote and advance the true definition of the family and oppose revisions of that definition that denigrate historical biological definitions.
At the same time, I will speak out against people who are willing to seek to force people out of an area because of their beliefs.
John Lambert | 7:38 p.m. June 4, 2008
I am only 27 but I fully oppose same gender marriage. This is not about
descrimination, but using fully logical and justified biological reasons in
defining marriage. No matter what you say, Sodomy will still be an abomination
before God and perversive sexual behaviors will still be wrong.
DBW | 7:46 p.m. June 4, 2008
Judges that overturn laws established by majorities are not necessarily
activist. The purpose of judges in constitutional government is not simply to
interpret the laws, but also to ensure that they remain within constraints
established by the constitution so that the government doesn't trample
rights guaranteed by the constitution for all. We may not agree with their
application of constitutional principles, but declaring laws unconstitutional,
regardless of how large the majority, is wholly within the jurisdiction of the
court.
The concern for moral conservatives is that the scope of basic rights presumed protected by constitutions has been broadening, primarily based on applications of the "equal protection" granted in the 14th amendment. Many consequences of such interpretations helped accelerate what most of us (hopefully) view as great progress, particularly the civil rights movement. So when I state that judicial activism (declaring law, rather than interpreting law) is inappropriate, I must grapple with activist decisions for which I appreciate the results. An open, respectful discussion on this issue is as difficult as any I know.
Nevertheless, I believe the public interest regarding strong society is sufficient to justify a definition of marriage that discriminates (definition: recognize or perceive a difference).
The concern for moral conservatives is that the scope of basic rights presumed protected by constitutions has been broadening, primarily based on applications of the "equal protection" granted in the 14th amendment. Many consequences of such interpretations helped accelerate what most of us (hopefully) view as great progress, particularly the civil rights movement. So when I state that judicial activism (declaring law, rather than interpreting law) is inappropriate, I must grapple with activist decisions for which I appreciate the results. An open, respectful discussion on this issue is as difficult as any I know.
Nevertheless, I believe the public interest regarding strong society is sufficient to justify a definition of marriage that discriminates (definition: recognize or perceive a difference).
John Lambert | 7:47 p.m. June 4, 2008
I for one have never had any desire to live in California at all. I no desire
to leave my wonderful four seasons, or my state where the legislative districts
are small enough that there is a chance the state legislature will care about
me.
I also have no envy of Californians for what they pay for gasoline.
I also have no envy of Californians for what they pay for gasoline.
John Lambert | 7:50 p.m. June 4, 2008
A good comparison is not to multi-race marriage but to laws against same
family marriage (aka laws against incest). We are dealing with the laws against
sameness not laws against difference.
Homosexual people can marry as long as they marry someone of the opposite gender.
Homosexual people can marry as long as they marry someone of the opposite gender.
John Lambert | 7:57 p.m. June 4, 2008
The Atorney General had very good reasons for making his request. There is no
reason to rush changes of laws, especially when they might not change.
Plus, Shurtleff was one of ten atorneys general to intervene. So did you go and make mean spirit and insulting remarks about the residents of the other nine state's whose attorney generals were involved?
Some urges are not legitimate ones. Homosexuality is a false and degrading practice. So is oral sex. Neither of them are made otherwise by being performed within a "marriage".
Plus, Shurtleff was one of ten atorneys general to intervene. So did you go and make mean spirit and insulting remarks about the residents of the other nine state's whose attorney generals were involved?
Some urges are not legitimate ones. Homosexuality is a false and degrading practice. So is oral sex. Neither of them are made otherwise by being performed within a "marriage".
sadlittlepeople | 7:58 p.m. June 4, 2008
Newsflash to the LDS in Utah. Outside of your little insular world, no one gives
one whit what you think or, for that matter, what you do. The only time you
become little pests is when you try to use the power of the LDS Church purse in
another state and get involved. Your "abomination" and "against
God's Covenants" are terms that have led young people to suicide. How
soon you forget. Live as you will in your "Zion". Just leave your
little minds out of the National discourse. And if you are liberal, gay or
straight and are tolerant, DO NOT let them run you out. I would have thought
that getting run out of Nauvoo because of your alternate lifestyle would have
taught you some lessons in tolerance. Guess not. Such sad little judgmental
minds. More to be pitied than blamed.
Re:sadlittle people | 8:06 p.m. June 4, 2008
You are sick and judgemental. Our church teaches against hate. You are
stereotyping and judging Mormons. I do not hate gay people. I do not think gay
is right. Do you believe in God and the Bible. But I do not beleive in hate or
violence. yoU are hateful. you are everyhtng you blame the Mormons for and you
are an extremist.
hht | 8:11 p.m. June 4, 2008
To "sadlittlepeople" person: What are you so angry about? Sad
you're so sad.
What rights are you talking | 8:23 p.m. June 4, 2008
about? The gay community does not want equality with traditional marriage, but
sameness. If this were not the case, the only concern they would be suing for
is hospital rights and tax returns. We all need to see this for what it is and
read articles like this with utter horror. The ability of 4 people to overturn
a law passed by millions is unbelievable.
May I also say here that despite the gay communty's better attempts, homosexuality is not a "natural" thing. If it were, there would be a "natural" was of perpetuating the species; just in case you are wondering, there isn't. For every one scientfic you can come up with that proves homosexuality is a genetic certainty, I will show you 3 that prove it isn't.
May I also say here that despite the gay communty's better attempts, homosexuality is not a "natural" thing. If it were, there would be a "natural" was of perpetuating the species; just in case you are wondering, there isn't. For every one scientfic you can come up with that proves homosexuality is a genetic certainty, I will show you 3 that prove it isn't.
Out on a limb | 8:24 p.m. June 4, 2008
We want to blame Bush or the democratic congress, or something else for our
nation's troubles, but it is time that we take responsibility for our own
actions. We have been an extremely prosperous country, but we, as a nation,
have moved far away from our loving Heavenly Father. We have seen the cycle in
the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon. When the people forget their God and
embrace the ways of the "world," destruction always follows. We glory
in violence (as shown by the movies and video games we play), and there is very
little of righteous morality any more (again, take note of movies and TV shows
that we watch, and comments on threads like these). This nation was created for
a God-fearing people. It is by following his commandments that we will again
prosper and find true and lasting happiness. Until then, the natural
consequences of our actions will unfold on our nation.
Pete Moss | 8:24 p.m. June 4, 2008
Just wondering why Mark shurtluff isnt interested in persuing Polygamist
relationships in Utah with underaged Minors who dont have a choice weather they
marry and are forced to have sex with their older uncles and cousins, but he is
against the ruling in California,because its a non traditional marraige thats
not recognized? seems like he should really focus on our problems in Utah
First???
My Tax dollars apparantly not so hard at work........
My Tax dollars apparantly not so hard at work........
jr | 9:38 p.m. June 4, 2008
I just love it when people use children as the excuse. I don't believe in
gay marriage then again I question the heterosexual marriage - the adultery, the
misery of couples and the impact divorce has on the children. Many a married
man is bi and hides behind the falsehood of marriage. Too many double
standards. Why not settle for heart to heart commitment and forget the legal
poohah of a piece of paper. But for sure our AG should clean up Utahs morals
before embarking in another states affairs. Clean up the poligs milking the
welfare system in the name of religion and have the fathers supports all their
bastard children. Marriage like religion is becoming sick
Anonymous | 10:47 p.m. June 4, 2008
To all the "strait" people of UT who don't want to vacation or
work or move to CA, isn't it nice the way that works out because we
don't care for close-minded, intolerant, sanctimonious people very much.
Not so keen on people whose education is a little inadequate in the spelling
dept. either. ;)
Enjoy your polygamous, cousin-marrying, state where women are still second class citizens!
Enjoy your polygamous, cousin-marrying, state where women are still second class citizens!
Anonymous | 1:18 a.m. June 5, 2008
I have just read through all of these comments. Lots of bickering back and
forth. Here's my opinion.
Just because I don't agree with the practice of gay marriage, doesn't mean I would hate those who are gay because they have a different opinion than what I believe to be right or wrong. Everyone has the right to choose for themselves how they want to live. Heavenly Father loves all his children regardless of the choices they make, as does our Savior Jesus Christ. This includes all choices, not just the gay issue. Having said that, I do believe, 100%, in "The Family; A Proclamation To The World". Pres. Hinckley was no doubt inspired by God 13 yrs ago when that statement was released. The breakdown of the family unit, as God ordained it to be, regardless if it is from "divorce", "living together out of wedlock" or "homosexual marriages" is just that, a break down of the family unit, which is and will continue to break down our society. I believe in the words of the prophets, whether living or dead. I believe the words written in the scriptures. History can repeat itself.
Just because I don't agree with the practice of gay marriage, doesn't mean I would hate those who are gay because they have a different opinion than what I believe to be right or wrong. Everyone has the right to choose for themselves how they want to live. Heavenly Father loves all his children regardless of the choices they make, as does our Savior Jesus Christ. This includes all choices, not just the gay issue. Having said that, I do believe, 100%, in "The Family; A Proclamation To The World". Pres. Hinckley was no doubt inspired by God 13 yrs ago when that statement was released. The breakdown of the family unit, as God ordained it to be, regardless if it is from "divorce", "living together out of wedlock" or "homosexual marriages" is just that, a break down of the family unit, which is and will continue to break down our society. I believe in the words of the prophets, whether living or dead. I believe the words written in the scriptures. History can repeat itself.
Brooke #1 | 8:23 a.m. June 5, 2008
To Out on a limb | 8:24 p.m.,
Since when did the United States of America ever EMBRACE the Mormon God? You Mormons appropriate everything and turn it into your own, including U.S. History.
Here is a little secret you may not have been taught in Sunday School: The U.S. was NEVER a Mormon nation! The U.S. was NOT founded BY Mormons, nor FOR Mormons, nor will it be saved by Mormons.
The U.S. was founded by people who believed in FREEDOM from all kinds of oppression, including RELIGIOUS oppression. They were predominately atheists and deists, and considered Jesus to be a good man, but hardly a deity. They believed in equality under the law rather than religious bigotry that usurps legal authority and condemns a group of people who believe differently than the majority.
You Mormons can try to dress you bigotry and homophobia in as glorious robes as you like, and claim that God endorses your views, but it will still be bigotry and homophobia and contrary to the Constitution of this Nation that was "conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal!"
(continued)
Since when did the United States of America ever EMBRACE the Mormon God? You Mormons appropriate everything and turn it into your own, including U.S. History.
Here is a little secret you may not have been taught in Sunday School: The U.S. was NEVER a Mormon nation! The U.S. was NOT founded BY Mormons, nor FOR Mormons, nor will it be saved by Mormons.
The U.S. was founded by people who believed in FREEDOM from all kinds of oppression, including RELIGIOUS oppression. They were predominately atheists and deists, and considered Jesus to be a good man, but hardly a deity. They believed in equality under the law rather than religious bigotry that usurps legal authority and condemns a group of people who believe differently than the majority.
You Mormons can try to dress you bigotry and homophobia in as glorious robes as you like, and claim that God endorses your views, but it will still be bigotry and homophobia and contrary to the Constitution of this Nation that was "conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal!"
(continued)
Brooke #2 | 8:28 a.m. June 5, 2008
We can follow President Lincoln's thoughts further:
Now we are engaged in a great civil dispute, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.
This test will move to the phase of States trying to alter their Constitutions to forbid gay marriage, just as some states amended their Constitutions in regards to slavery. But because the legality of marriage and its implications carry along with the persons involved as they move from state to state, the Federal courts will be involved immediately. You can't have a United States of America if something so central to people's lifestyles--marriage--divides people between States, just as they couldn't have a United States if the Southern States continued with slavery.
Now we are engaged in a great civil dispute, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.
This test will move to the phase of States trying to alter their Constitutions to forbid gay marriage, just as some states amended their Constitutions in regards to slavery. But because the legality of marriage and its implications carry along with the persons involved as they move from state to state, the Federal courts will be involved immediately. You can't have a United States of America if something so central to people's lifestyles--marriage--divides people between States, just as they couldn't have a United States if the Southern States continued with slavery.
Brooke #3 | 8:36 a.m. June 5, 2008
Because this nation is committed to the proposition that all men are created
equal, slavery could not possibly stand, despite the religious arguments
supporting it, the monetary impact of it, and the deeply held beliefs of a large
portion of the U.S. population. And for the same reasons, forbidding gay
marriage cannot possibly stand so long as this nation is still dedicated to the
proposition that all men are created equal. As such, the biggest threat to this
Nation and the principles upon which it was founded are, ironically, the LDS and
other religious groups who are trying to turn this nation away from its core
principles of equality and liberty!
Don't be fooled by the rhetoric. This was never meant to be a nation of "majority rules". This was never meant to be a nation of religiously-based bigotry. This was always meant to be a nation committed to the proposition that all men are created equal and therefore deserve equal protection under the law. The civil rights movement also taught us that separate us fundamentally UNequal. Therefore, no separate "civil unions" could possibly be consistent with the founding principles of this nation. Legalizing gay marriage is the only way.
Don't be fooled by the rhetoric. This was never meant to be a nation of "majority rules". This was never meant to be a nation of religiously-based bigotry. This was always meant to be a nation committed to the proposition that all men are created equal and therefore deserve equal protection under the law. The civil rights movement also taught us that separate us fundamentally UNequal. Therefore, no separate "civil unions" could possibly be consistent with the founding principles of this nation. Legalizing gay marriage is the only way.
California Golden Bear | 9:11 a.m. June 5, 2008
I am a strong supporter of traditional marriage. Therefore, I am also a strong
supporter of gay marriage. It is up to churches to decide for themselves if
they want to allow gay marriages, but since the states also grant civil benefits
to married couples, then civil marriages must be availaible to all.
I encourage all gays in Utah and elsewhere, to come here and get married. Then go home and file class action suits against your bigoted state governments.
I encourage all gays in Utah and elsewhere, to come here and get married. Then go home and file class action suits against your bigoted state governments.
To Oregon Man | 9:24 a.m. June 5, 2008
Marriage has nothing to do with reproduction. Just ask the millions of unwed
mothers.
Marriage is a legal institution granting certain benefits to couples. Don't confuse the two.
Marriage is a legal institution granting certain benefits to couples. Don't confuse the two.
exMoWeHoMo | 10:28 a.m. June 5, 2008
To Out On A Limb,
I really think you need to revisit your god. Somewhere along the way you took a wrong turn and started worshipping a real monster.
I really think you need to revisit your god. Somewhere along the way you took a wrong turn and started worshipping a real monster.
Anonymous | 11:01 a.m. June 5, 2008
Mayor Gavin Newsom rocks!!
Alex | 3:06 p.m. June 5, 2008
California Golden Bear:
"I encourage all gays in Utah and elsewhere, to come here and get married. Then go home and file class action suits against your bigoted state governments. "
Knock yourself out. You are wasting your time and destroying the planet. No Utah court can grant what the Utah Constitution does not allow and the Utah Constitution by amendment has declared that it will not permit nor recognize any other marriage other than that between a man and a woman, period. The only way you will EVER be allowed marriage in the State of Utah is if the Supreme Court of the United States overrules all state constitutions. Until that time, start caring about the planet and don't waste the gas travelling back and forth between Utah and California.
"I encourage all gays in Utah and elsewhere, to come here and get married. Then go home and file class action suits against your bigoted state governments. "
Knock yourself out. You are wasting your time and destroying the planet. No Utah court can grant what the Utah Constitution does not allow and the Utah Constitution by amendment has declared that it will not permit nor recognize any other marriage other than that between a man and a woman, period. The only way you will EVER be allowed marriage in the State of Utah is if the Supreme Court of the United States overrules all state constitutions. Until that time, start caring about the planet and don't waste the gas travelling back and forth between Utah and California.
YBU | 4:37 p.m. June 5, 2008
To: Alex | 3:06 p.m
Sorry, not true. The US Constitution overrules every state constitution and the US Constitution states that every state MUST honor all others as to their "Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings.." It's call the Full Faith and Credit part of the Constitution. Read it.
Sorry, not true. The US Constitution overrules every state constitution and the US Constitution states that every state MUST honor all others as to their "Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings.." It's call the Full Faith and Credit part of the Constitution. Read it.
Alex | 5:27 p.m. June 5, 2008
YBU
"Sorry, not true. The US Constitution overrules every state constitution and the US Constitution states that every state MUST honor all others as to their "Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings.." It's call the Full Faith and Credit part of the Constitution. Read it. "
I know full well what the Full Faith and Credit Clause is. You seem to forget, however, that there is a FEDERAL defense of marriage law (DOMA) on the books that says that one state does not have to recognize a same sex marriage from another state. The US Supreme Court will have to act on this matter, not the Utah State Supreme Court. The Utah State Supreme Court cannot override its own constitution, and it is not required to recognize other marriages either (DOMA). That is why I say that the gays from Utah would be wasting their time. The only place you have a chance is in a state that doesn't have a state amendment.
"Sorry, not true. The US Constitution overrules every state constitution and the US Constitution states that every state MUST honor all others as to their "Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings.." It's call the Full Faith and Credit part of the Constitution. Read it. "
I know full well what the Full Faith and Credit Clause is. You seem to forget, however, that there is a FEDERAL defense of marriage law (DOMA) on the books that says that one state does not have to recognize a same sex marriage from another state. The US Supreme Court will have to act on this matter, not the Utah State Supreme Court. The Utah State Supreme Court cannot override its own constitution, and it is not required to recognize other marriages either (DOMA). That is why I say that the gays from Utah would be wasting their time. The only place you have a chance is in a state that doesn't have a state amendment.
Golden Bear | 10:43 a.m. June 6, 2008
Alex
YBU is correct. It will be eventually be settled by the US Supreme Court, which will override any state constitution or state supreme court (including the Utah State Supreme Court).
The U.S. Supreme Court can also overturn federal law INCLUDING the so called "Defense of Marriage" Act (Defending it how?).
As I said in my original statement, I strongly support traditional marriage. But that is why I also strongly support gay marriage.
And there will be no need for Utah gays to "waste gas" if they could just get married there in "Zion."
P.S. XOXOX Will you marry me?
YBU is correct. It will be eventually be settled by the US Supreme Court, which will override any state constitution or state supreme court (including the Utah State Supreme Court).
The U.S. Supreme Court can also overturn federal law INCLUDING the so called "Defense of Marriage" Act (Defending it how?).
As I said in my original statement, I strongly support traditional marriage. But that is why I also strongly support gay marriage.
And there will be no need for Utah gays to "waste gas" if they could just get married there in "Zion."
P.S. XOXOX Will you marry me?
California Supreme | 3:29 p.m. June 6, 2008
The California Constitution says the court can not legislate from the bench,
which is what 4 people did.
THANKs to all of you standing up for truth. Who would have thought it would come to this?
THANKs to all of you standing up for truth. Who would have thought it would come to this?
Golden Bear | 5:50 p.m. June 6, 2008
California Supreme: Your grasp of the law demonstrates you belong more with
Diana Ross and the Supremes.
The California Supreme Court did not legislate. It did what it is supposed to do. It ruled on the constiutionality of an unjust law.
Thanks be to God.
The California Supreme Court did not legislate. It did what it is supposed to do. It ruled on the constiutionality of an unjust law.
Thanks be to God.
Re:California Supreme | 5:50 p.m. June 6, 2008
Do you understand what "legislating from the bench" means? It's
not applicable here. The Supreme Court has every right to rule on the
constitutionality of law when the question has been brought before the court.
Part of what we call "checks and balances."
John L. | 6:48 p.m. June 7, 2008
If rights were put to a vote, would we ever have freed the slaves or given women
the vote? Not likely. A true democracy knows that rights cannot be subject to
the *prejudices* of the majority. The courts are an example of a democracy
taking steps to ensure it is truly a fair and just society.
There have been people | 3:43 p.m. June 8, 2008
That wonder why some of us read the Deseret News online if we disagree with some
of Utah's standings. The answer is simple: This is a newspaper and it is
online. We don't subscribe to it, but we may be interested if we've
had anything to do with living in Utah or in Mormonism. And sometimes we make
comments because that is our right and maybe some of us care about you. And
sometimes, (if anyone is like me) I look with amazement and smile.
Alice in Kidnapper Land | 3:17 p.m. June 16, 2008
Shurtz, you'd do well to focus on the Kidnapping Trauma that goes on in UT.
You know the worthy inferts, coercive/lds paradoxical progagandizing
psychopaths LDSFS, UT rep. Sheryl Allan (deadly presumed paternity statute
buried in her Adoption Law) and Bedfellows, NCFA. Focus on All the suicides
being kept "hushed" after babies are permanently stolen w/o cause and
the pedophilia surrounding them! Anyone, who believes because parents are
single, that they and their baby are responsible for their infertility problems
or that they chose to marry an infert, go ahead and give them your babies! Why
haven't you?
It's called Delusional Thinking when you believe that another's child is yours. Given any other circumstance, they'd be diagnosed with a major mental illness!
If pre-m-sex is a sin, saying a child produced of sin is meant to be anothers: a religious paradox! Adoption ethics: a Paradox!
To Target vulnerable mothers, drugged, mentally ill, poor into feeling they're not good enough for their own babies and none the wiser fathers you keep out of the picture to blame later: Called Reproductive Exploitation.
A $1.4 Billion a yr Industry, that lines your pockets too. Oh the abuse greed drives! And the loss of focus.
It's called Delusional Thinking when you believe that another's child is yours. Given any other circumstance, they'd be diagnosed with a major mental illness!
If pre-m-sex is a sin, saying a child produced of sin is meant to be anothers: a religious paradox! Adoption ethics: a Paradox!
To Target vulnerable mothers, drugged, mentally ill, poor into feeling they're not good enough for their own babies and none the wiser fathers you keep out of the picture to blame later: Called Reproductive Exploitation.
A $1.4 Billion a yr Industry, that lines your pockets too. Oh the abuse greed drives! And the loss of focus.
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I have now come to the following conclusions.
Some Utahns are gay... others are not.
Some outside of Utah are gay... others are not.
Some people are tolerable... others are not...
People outside of Utah read the Deseret News.
Why?
I'm guessing because they are either interested in what is happening in Utah (meaning they are LDS), or they want to bash on those who live here (meaning they are anti-LDS, including LDS people who like to bash on other LDS people - go figure).
Children can only be born when a man and a women, well you know... I'm not very creative, but it certainly can't be the same for two men or two women. It ultimately still takes male and female parts somewhere along the line.
California is probably due for another big earthquake.
Or fire and brimstone...
Sadly, the rest of the nation will probably be right with them, because we evidently hate each other, worship unholy things, and are the most prideful people on the face of the earth.
And if God doesn't get us, we will probably just get each other anyway.