Deseret News | 'I didn't bring this on FLDS,' sheriff says

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'I didn't bring this on FLDS,' sheriff says

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zxcvbnm | 11:07 a.m. June 4, 2008

GRANNY.........the Sarah that called and her daughter are non existant. There is no "Sarah" to produce.
NO Sarah get it.......non-existant Sarah....she is the imagination of a nut in colorado.

transplant | 11:09 a.m. June 4, 2008

It's not slavery if kids work within the child labor laws and they can leave as adults. Parents of children of any or no belief system are at liberty toindoctrinate their own children. The law can only go so far to protect children. The difference is that out in society there are others who are witnesses of treatment of children by their parents. They go to school, church,library, swimming pools, where any evidence of abuse can be seen and reported. The FLDS ranch kids are hidden from view. Even in my day long dresses knee high socks and long sleeves hid my abuse. My sisters and I delivered newspapers 362 days a year in all weather up north,picked berries and other jobs as well as take care of ourselves. We had to work to subsidize my mothers women's wages at a factory. It was too much but no one reported it. It's not ok to look the other way and allow children to be so exploited today. There will be oversight from now on at this ranch.

David | 11:35 a.m. June 4, 2008

I am sorry to read of your abuse "transplant" but there is a gross difference between long clothing to hide abuse and long clothing to protect modesty. The current clothing was a fundamentalist response to the Short Creek action. Look up Short Creek Images and you will see women and children that had time appropriate clothing that changed as a response to the raid. Had the raid not taken place, it is very likely the FLDS would have changed with the times reflecting modern clothing. But as is typical, the group responded to excessive action by excessive reaction typical of all.

Comments continue below

Dear | 11:37 a.m. June 4, 2008

Due process wasn't followed. They can't just raid a city, without reason. They used the call as an excuse, but why didn't they trace it, as the vitims advocate did? If they'd been anyone else, the investigators would've needed a substancial amount of evidence to remove, and location. They didn't have the same rights as others. All abuse accusations need to be treated the same reguardless of religion. They all need the same rules, rights, and amount of investigating.
The state did a lot of lying, and misleading it to seem as though things were very different, living in the temple was just the begining, and removing the children won't go away no matter how good the fosterhomes. The state really abused these kids. Had they followed the usual way, not all of these children would've been removed, and there is nothing that explains the guns. I don't agree w/FLDS religion, but their rights were violated, treated worse than people later proved to be abusers.
I worry about the abused children that were unable to be helped because the system was overwhealmed. No doubt there were children who weren't helped because they were focused on FLDS, they deserve help too.

Think!!!! | 11:39 a.m. June 4, 2008

The law enforcement KNEW it to be a prank call BEFORE they went to the ranch.
"This is no different from any other CPS investigation, it's just on a larger scale."???????
So, other inocent parents have been victomized and nothing has been done because it was not on this "bigger scale?" IT'S PAST TIME TO DO SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE!!! TAKE AWAY CPS POWER!!!!

"CPS-not-satisfied-that-they-were-cooperating,so-they-requested-to-do-a-'residential-to-residential-search.'" Come-on!! They used ONE SEARCH WARRENT to search how many "residents" ???

"...keeping-them-out-of-sight...a-lot-of-those-were-underaged-pregnant-girls." ????
How long can this misinformation be shouted by people who are suppose to be protecting TRUTH and JUSTICE before it is made factually what it was--a lie, there was not a "lot of those were underage pregnant girls." !!!!!!
"My-relationship-with-them-is-I've-always-been-upfront-with-them-for-the-past-four-years."
It was on the promise of officer Doran that the parents let the children leave their homes to be interigated. HE PROMISED THEY WOULD HAVE THEM BACK IN AN HOUR!!!
CPS itself said they were overwhelmed with how many children.--Why does everyone keep saying the FLDS were uncooperative with names, etc. CPS if blaming their incompitance of oganization onto the parents. The parents gave names and such several times!!!

LEAVE THESE PEOPLE ALONE NOW, SO THEY CAN "MAYBE" HEAL.

Justthefactsmaam | 11:43 a.m. June 4, 2008

The username 'transplant' is SO revealing.

Transplant from the Texas CPS. How many children have you raped THIS year? According to the Texas Comptroller, 63 were raped by your kind in 2004, including 10 that were from birth to 3 years old.

Physician, heal thyself!

The FLDS is pure, holy and healthy!

I am the grandson of a Pentecostal preacher, and neither FLDS nor LDS nor ever have been.

Anonymous | 11:53 a.m. June 4, 2008

Lets look at the facts..

1. FLDS do not cooperate. They dont know how.
2. They do everything they do on thin ice. Taxes, Welfare fraud, and violations of marriage laws.
3. They call all of the women Mom.. so which one is the real mom?
4. They have a long history of neglect, emotional physical and of course, sexual.

If you were to enter even their town in AZ, you would see corruption all around you. Ive been there many many times as its only 20 miles away for me.
So, how is it so hard for you people to understand that the CPS entered the Plig compound and was horrified? When there is no cooperation, how do you know which kids are effected? Which house is which house? So , the did what I would have done, take them all, and sort it out..

You MUST understand this one fact.. The FLDS have ALWAYS thought they were above the law.. Im sure they were thinking, we will go silent and CPS will ignore us.. Bad assumption. All they needed to do was cooperate fully, this would never have happened..

realitycheck | 12:07 p.m. June 4, 2008

ah - the parents think they are protecting the children from the big, bad world - when in fact they are simply denying them the ability to survive in it.

how sad.

cross examination | 12:07 p.m. June 4, 2008

I pray this man, Sheriff Doran, gets cross examined on this raid. He'd never stand up to a good cross examination. He's liable for many of the gross miscarriages of justice in this fiasco. Many posters on these forums have said for a long while to expect backtracking. Here goes Sheriff Doran with his poor excuses for his ineptitude and criminal legal malfeasance.

ERM | 12:08 p.m. June 4, 2008

Mr Barlow is on probation and his probation officer sees him regularly and can vouch for his whereabouts...

David | 12:13 p.m. June 4, 2008

1. FLDS did cooperate even offering birth certificates and drivers license, but woman were still listed as minors so that CPS could claim pervasive underage pregnancy.
2. Texas welfare agents have stated that not one person on the YFZ ranch collected ANY welfare. Texas authorities also stated that taxes were paid in full and on time. Marriage laws were not violated because these people did what many other Americans do, they shacked up.
3. My daughter calls a neighbor mom and a couple of neighbor kids refer to me as dad. I find it warming that my child has such love for another adult and that the adult feels complimented by the title. I find it also complimentary that the kids find me to fix bikes or do other "dad" things.
4. There is no history of neglect, or abuse. Rates of sexual abuse, 5 girls in question, is LOWER than outside the FLDS ranch.
CPS seems to have been horrified by very odd things since many "minors" were actually fully adult women with one well into her 30's.

You may not like them or their beliefs, but please do not lie as it only makes your words look illegitimate.

Anonymous | 12:16 p.m. June 4, 2008

"How do you know Dale Barlow was not in Texas?"

When the fake phone call arrived that accused Mr Barlow of committing a crime in Texas, the local police where Barlow lives went to find him. The police themselves determined that he had not been anywhere near Texas. That is why the arrest warrant for him has also been dropped long ago.

David | 12:22 p.m. June 4, 2008

CPS proved the big bad world just that by removing innocent children from their innocent parents. Again, from previous posts, parents have the right to association as do those FLDS. RC claims that FLDS don't know the world because the FLDS "isolated" them, though RC wouldn't dare visit the Projects/ghetto with kids in tow. You think your morals and values are superior. They are not. They are only different.
The rates of potential underage sex among the FLDS was LOWER than outside the ranch. This is fact even if you do not like it. The Supreme Court even ruled based on that knowledge. Again, underage pregnancy was not pervasive since it occurs at LOWER rates than through Texas as per the Supreme Court.
Insulting others with the use of libel, does not heighten you in the eyes of others. Facts are eventually discovered and disclosed as is the case.
How many times does CPS have to lie until you stop believing them? I would have thought an over 30 year old being listed as a minor would have done so. Apparently not. It is this ignorance of law that causes me fear for the future of my own children's rights.

realitycheck | 12:31 p.m. June 4, 2008

Many here disagree with my comments on the lack of future opportunity given these children. I understand your disagreement. They "live on a big farm with its own school and are brought up by loving parents in an environment of their own choosing". That's great. I get it.

The problem I have is I have never heard of anyone "leaving" that didn't have to "escape". I suggest someone write a book about one (or many if they exist) of the people that grew up, said "I'm going to go make my mark in the world - wish me luck" and the parents helped him/her get a start in the world.

Doesn't happen. If someone wants to go out and have a career and a house and live their own life, they are disowned and told never to return.

I challenge ANY OF YOU to provide ONE EXAMPLE of someone leaving the "group" and having a life of their choosing without being CONDEMNED by the group.

That's just wrong. Is anyone beginning to understand what I am trying to say now - about lack of opportunity and such? I sure hope so - it's not that complicated...

realitycheck - re David 12:22pm | 12:36 p.m. June 4, 2008

you are quite wrong. I did take each of my 5 children to East LA when they were 12 years old. I showed them some dumpy houses and the drunks on the sidewalk. I also took them through Beverly Hills and also through some modest neighborhoods.

I explained to them that it was up to them to determine how they wanted to live their life when they were adults, and that with hard work and an education, they could do anything they wanted - and that I would help them any way I could.

For the record, none of them chose to be drunks in East LA.

GAL50 | 12:48 p.m. June 4, 2008

It's interesting that the FLDS would request 300 voting cards given that news reports state that 2/3rds of the women have moved elsewhere. A lot of the men appear to have left the compound awhile ago. They would have to truck in residents from Short Creek in order to need so many voting cards. They only produced 150 adult DNA samples and they seemed to have about 225-250 adult residents in the compound before the raid.

Since the FLDS seem to believe that they are breaking the law in the name of religion when it comes to polygamy and child rape, it doesn't seem to be a stretch to think that they might break voting laws in the name of religion.

Texas needs to be afraid of the FLDS taking over the local government because that is what happened in Utah and it wasn't a positive experience. By telling the sheriff that there were only 100 residents and by not registering to vote, the FLDS quelled fears of a governmental takeover. Without the raid, the FLDS could have secretly built up its numbers, requested voting cards, wrote in their candidates and taken over the government within 30 days.

DeputyHeadmistress | 1:02 p.m. June 4, 2008

In an earlier interview with local reporter/newspaper owner Mankin, Doran admitted that his informant (he didn't claim plural then) had NEVER EVEN been to the ranch and was ex-FLDS. Why didn't the Deseret reporter know this and follow up on it with the Sheriff?
Why was Doran's claim about all those pregnant under-aged mothers allowed to go unchallenged when we now know that the count of pregnant under-aged girls is ZERO?
The FLDS were only uncooperative in being unable to produce Sarah, because as Sheriff 'it's not my fault' knows, she does not exist.

David | 1:22 p.m. June 4, 2008

Gal50, the women only moved off the ranch initially to be able to see the children, then under the advisement of their attorneys. Their permanent residence remains the YFZ ranch and the place they are staying is only temporary. The request for 300 voter registrations is valid. I find it quite amusing that Texans initially feared that FLDS would come in and take over the government and the FLDS did not do so. But now that TX forcibly removed children without evidence, the FLDS are responding with that worst fear. Texas shot themselves in the foot.
RC, FLDS children were not all at YFZ during the raid, one was only 7 years old. They were out "experiencing the world" which you claimed they were not permitted to see. Odd that you would not expose your children until they already 12. Did you stop and enter schools with your children, to speak to the people or did you likely only drive through while all the time telling them to attend University so that they wouldn't have to live in those horrible conditions? Again, that is to use your own words, "isolating kids from the world" and "immoral."

zxcvbnm | 1:28 p.m. June 4, 2008

OK hotshot...produce the ficticious child of ficticious Sarah........do a DNA test and prove Dale Barlow had sex with the ficticious Sarah thereby producing the ficticious baby Sarah.
How about calling Barlows Parole and or probation officer and verifying his address and phone number. How about calling Arizona or Utah authorities and check on Barlows history, place of employment and absentee records......all info available to his parole officer and info computer recorded in most modern companys.
Do some police investigative work rather than blow in with tanks.
Better yet...talk with Flora....she seems to know everything that is going on in Texas from her safe perch in Colorado....she knows all and sees all and will really help if asked or not.
Whoops.......she is already helping, I forgot.

Yah right | 1:34 p.m. June 4, 2008

Ya, a phony cry. It wasn't even real, and they had significant proof of that before they raided. It's always in the name of protecting children, but it's actually not about the kids at all. We've allowed our court and judicial systems to become totally screwed up, and now, fixing it is pretty much impossible because we gave up our control.

very tired | 1:34 p.m. June 4, 2008

i'm quite tired of hearing of flds perversions.

to GAL50 | 1:38 p.m. June 4, 2008

We've been reading your tripe on this board since this began. At first, the ad leitem bit seemed believable, but with the ensuing misinformation and now this last bit of drivel, you've lost your credibility. Your speculation lacks fact and logic. You've relied on generalization and common fears and inuendo to stretch for a point. Be spcific, be factual and get ris of your bias if you want to be believable. The devil is in the details, and the details do not bear out your assumptions. For ex.,claiming child rape, even statutorily, when a marriage took place within the bounds of current Texas law, since changed, does not constitute rape.
Where exactly did a group of FLDS take over the Utah government with dissasterous results? Generalities ma'am. Throwing random statistics about, just to support your bigoted thesis, is dishonest. I listened to you at first, but no longer.

??? | 1:41 p.m. June 4, 2008

Did the good Sheriff say he was in offie for 12 years? It seams to me that would be enough time for him to figure out that the county sheriff IS the ultimate law enforcment in his county. Sorry, sheriff you of all people can not fall back on the excuse of "Just following orders!" Now, if you sir, relinquished your command to others...are you fit to run again...what a travisty happened under your watch.

wyogirl | 1:55 p.m. June 4, 2008

Ewww...I'm not a former FLDS member - or a feminist (I've been called that too).

I don't like liars. Where I grew up the worst thing you could be was a liar (or a horse thief). When I went to college I took a class that got me interested in American religions and I've studied a lot about them. I've read as much as I could find on the FLDS - but not the Jessop or Wall books. I've even had some contact with them on trips to the southern UT area.

I've always had sympathy for their women, but respected their right to choose that lifestyle. BUT, I have NO sympathy for Child abusers. NONE.

The Sheriffs interview makes it plain, in my opinion, that the FLDS tied the hands of CPS, who had a legal warrant, by holding them up at the gate, refusing to let them interview girls, and in other ways preventing them from investigating abuse. What other community would rally around a child rapist and try to prevent officials from arresting him? CPS wanted to just interview suspected abuse victims, find the abusers and leave - but the FLDS wanted to protect their MEN.

Re: Justthefactsmaam | 2:21 p.m. June 4, 2008

Dude, get help. Your rant reveals an unstable mind.
Say, you'e not David Doran are you?

to: Wyogirl | 2:42 p.m. June 4, 2008

You said, "CPS just wanted to interview suspected abuse victimes, find the abusers and leave..."

Are you kidding???? This continued drivel from you people is really tiresome. The Texas Supreme Court made a ruling on this case but you and a few others continue spreading CPS propoganda.

JMG | 2:49 p.m. June 4, 2008

Yeah, right; The gate always looked like that: Bent and, smashed like an armored personell carrier um, swat vehicle, hit it; oh, but those weren't used were they?
And serving a search warrant Texas style: with a jackhammer; that didn't happen either did it; just those old faulty marble walls and, reinforced doors;
just seemed to finally,finally, crumble...

Worried | 2:50 p.m. June 4, 2008

"they have problems within their community that needs to be taken care of. If there was no problem, there wouldn't be a lot of victims coming away from that culture doing outcries."

This bothers me immensely. He has formed an opinion by listening to the Anti-FLDS and has become biased, but thinks he is impartial. So when he went in, he had a presumption of guilt, instead of presumption of innocence.

Eric Re: gunpoint | 2:51 p.m. June 4, 2008

>>The children were not taken at gunpoint<<

Well, there is a large tank like vehicle with obvious guns, a group of men described as a SWAT squad that just happened to be in the neighborhood.
You don't call that gunpoint??
That's where the whole problem started. The FLDS DID NOT resist. It was expected to go to a Waco shoot-out and it didn't happen. Now you need to come up with a REAL reason for the raid.

realitycheck | 2:53 p.m. June 4, 2008

and we will continue until you free the children from the bondS of slavery that you hold them in.

FREE THE CHILDREN!!!

I'm sure I'll hear from David on this one - he just doesn't get it....

why 2 hours? | 3:00 p.m. June 4, 2008

CPS shows up with a search warrant and it takes 2 hours to open the gate? Suprised the authorities didn't break down the gate. Most other municipalities would have. FLDS got lucky on that one.

DC | 3:05 p.m. June 4, 2008

To realitycheck

I agree with much in your various posts on this board, with one fundamental exception: the use of state force to impose the changes you think would benefit the FLDS children. For the most part you havenï¿½t repeated the overbroad charges of sexual abuse which appear as unusual for the FLDS as for normal society. Rather you've focused on the isolation, lack of education, and lack of choice with which the FLDS raise their children. I agree with you completely, and I raise my children in much the same way it sounds as though you raised yours. But it is simply wrong in a pluralistic society for you and me to support the state's forcible intervention between parents and their children because we'd like to broaden the children's minds or expand their vocational opportunity. My 3 children are being educated at the best private schools in the country at a cost of about $100,000 a year. My neighbor sends his boy to the local DC public school. Should I call the CPS and have the child put in my care because he isnï¿½t being educated the way I think is right?

ldgldsmth | 3:20 p.m. June 4, 2008

Did anyone see the damage to the fence; it looked as if it had been rammed by a heavy vehicle; maybe a "tank" like armored personell carrier?
The temple was smashed open too; with jackhammers!
This is how you "peaceably" enter with a search warrant in Texas?!

Va gal | 3:44 p.m. June 4, 2008

The good sheriff can see eggs being thrown and he is trying to duck. He has a problem though, it was his officers, and his guns being pointed at the FLDS children and their parents. There is no way he is going to get out of this with an "awww shucks...just doing my duty Mamm"

Some have objected to the children working on the farm? Just because most of this country's school age children go to school come home and play gameboy doesn't mean that is the best way to live. In most countries and cultures children work alongside their parents. Their labor is needed and appreciated. It is also healthy. I don't see anything wrong with children weeding or watering a garden or helping build a shed after school hours.

realitycheck | 3:48 p.m. June 4, 2008

to DC -

No, sir. Just because you can afford or wish to spend your hard earned money on an expensive school and the other parent can't or won't is not what I am talking about. Obviously the FLDS could afford to send their children to the very best schools, but if they don't want to that is their choice. But not providing them the tools to go to college and making them scared of people outside is wrong.

And I agree with you that Texas should not force their morals on the FLDS. I wasn't happy that it went down the way it did, but I was nontheless glad to see the children and women have an opportunity to perhaps choose a different life.

It's all about the opportunity to make choices rather than be stuck into a situation.

Our forefathers would want the children to have the OPPORTUNITY to have a future of their choosing. Let freedom reign.

zxcvbnm | 3:55 p.m. June 4, 2008

Last week there were 110 "unidentified" children in CPS captivity.
Today all the children have been released.
Many have asked where the men are.....Seth Jeffs picked up his boys.
Could it be that the mothers picked up some children as the fathers picked up others.
One child may have been abused....may have according to the guardian adlitum. Some reports say the minor is pregnant, some reports say she is not pregnant, and other reports say she may be pregnant.
Now FLDS is being accused of using the media for a propoganda campaign by Doran.
The same Doran is granting interviews and distancing himself from this mess as he prepares for the next election.
The mess is far from cleaned up but the FLDS are certainly gracious in their avoidance of hate filled retoric unlike their accusers.

Re: TO....zxcvbmn | 4:12 p.m. June 4, 2008

TX cancelled the warrant for Dale Barlow's arrest. The investigation into his whereabouts is NOT still ongoing, at least not in any meaningful way. If there were questions as to the legitimacy of his alibi, I doubt they would have cancelled the warrant for his arrest.

mypc | 4:56 p.m. June 4, 2008

Just how close was the relationship if he thought there were 100 men,women and children? I would sure have noticed there were hundreds of people there. And as to how many days..why are you here posting. Get a life ,a real one. No one is forcing you to read here. Go turn on your tv.

Earl | 5:17 p.m. June 4, 2008

>>Our forefathers would want the children to have the OPPORTUNITY to have a future of their choosing.<<

On the contrary, In days of our forefathers, by the age of 14 or so, you were generally apprenticed out somewhere learning the trade that would be your life.
You had virtually no choice in the matter.
Our country did fairly well using that system. Most other countries still use that system.
Are YOU doing what ever you want to do??

mypc | 5:26 p.m. June 4, 2008

for almost 2 month reality check has been sitting on her pedestal. I understand we all have different views of life but when does it become right for her to talk about a community where parents work hard and struggle to rise above the poverty they were born to. You took you little gems to east l.a. to see the drunks and their dumpy houses! i will have you know that the mexican community would resent that. You seem to have a problem with anyone who is not of your liking. I am sorry for my feeling but I have friends who are from mexico. Clean houses,good parents and they work hard and go to church. I envy the closeness of the extended family.

G | 5:27 p.m. June 4, 2008

"
Our forefathers would want the children to have the OPPORTUNITY to have a future of their choosing. Let freedom reign."

Our forefathers (the founding fathers) would be rolling over in their graves.

When did Doran know? | 5:32 p.m. June 4, 2008

Who were Doranï¿½s informants? Flora and Carolyn Jessop, possibly? If so, isnï¿½t it odd that Carolynï¿½s book sales skyrocketed one week before Rozita called the first time. Why? Maybe because Rozita called Doran a week before she called the womenï¿½s shelter. And Doran gave her a number without caller ID to precipitate the raid, in the meantime buying cartons of Carolynï¿½s book to get the swat teams up to speed.

To retrieve the sales chart of Carolynï¿½s book, google CHARTEOUS JESSOP ESCAPE

Sales peak on March 21-23.
Rozita calls the shelter on March 29-30.
The ranch is raided on April 4.
Sales zoom again on April 5-9.
A final peak occurs April 17-19, during the first hearing.

realitycheck | 5:41 p.m. June 4, 2008

yes, Earl - I am. Are you?

and this is the 21st century, not "the days of our forefathers". Rest assured, they would want you to take advantage of all this great land has to offer. Thats why they gave their lives to it.

realitycheck re - mpyc 5:26pm | 5:55 p.m. June 4, 2008

now that's funny. For you see, I am not a woman, I am a man. And my wife is Hispanic. I have friends in East LA and they are not drunks. But there are some nasty areas there, which is why I took my kids there - to see how NOT to be.

I have no agenda here. I truly believe EVERYONE can excel if they work hard enough, and it tears at my heart that these children will not be given the opportunities that are GUARENTEED by our constitution. My great great (great great great..) grandfather signed the declaration of independance. I have not a mean-spirited bone and wish well for everyone.

I just don't think these kids are getting a fair deal if confined to that environment. I don't see how they can fulfill their dreams.

A parents duty (IMHO) is to provide the tools for their child to fulfill their dreams (as best they can.) Or at least survive in a changing world. I don't see the FLDS parents providing either.

You can hate my opinion, but don't hate me. I'm not against the FLDS - I'm simply for the children and their future.

Grateful | 5:55 p.m. June 4, 2008

Look, folks, I remember Waco & the Branch Davidians. Whatever you think of the FLDS, the last time the Texans had a gated compound with a leader that was followed as devotedly as Warren Jeffs they had dead kids & a disaster. Thank you Sheriff Doran, for making sure we did not have a repeat. Or, perhaps, thank you to Shurtleff for making sure that Jeffs was not on the grounds. Either way, no dead kids.

realitycheck | 6:03 p.m. June 4, 2008

one last comment, and I'll leave it alone.

Those of you that don't like what I'm saying. You seem to hav forgotten the main point of the constitution. Life, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT of happiness.

These kids will have neither liberty nor the ability to pursue happiness. I find that wrong. Sorry you disagree.

realitycheck re - mpyc 5:26pm | 6:06 p.m. June 4, 2008

Thanks for the kindness you show in your message. However I think you are missing an important distinction. You say that you don't think the kids can follow THEIR dreams. I think you don't see how they can follow YOUR dreams.

They have different dreams than many and before anybody throws out the "brainwashing" accusation, consider that ALLLLL of us are products, at least partially, of where and how we grew up. Everybody is somewhat "brainwashed."

ed | 6:31 p.m. June 4, 2008

Doran defends what was done? CPS acts without regard for the constitution and the need for evidence? Judge Walther feels free to abuse judicial discretion? There are people who make comments in these forums that they agree with the state's conduct?

I am constantly amazed at the disregard both the agencies of government and many citizens have for the constitution, Due Process, probable cause,and the need for evidence before the state can act to deprive an individual--let alone an entire community--of their rights.

Based on a false accusation against one man, the state essentially kidnapped the children of an entire community. Based on the reported doctrinal teachings, not actual evidence of abuse, the state tore children away from their parents and declared the parents guilty of abuse. Based on a photograph of Warren Jeffs kissing a young girl an attempt was made to paint the entire FLDS population of men as predators and abusers.

Hate, fear, innuendo, prejudice, and religious bigotry lead the state to violate the FLDS rights and the constitution. Many in the forums here posted comments in support of that outrage. I fear for our country. State tyranny and mob mentality deserve no support.

boston123 | 6:41 p.m. June 4, 2008

The whole thing stinks and reminds me of the way KGB conducts its "business". I am originally from Russia, so I know how they usually do it with ethnic and religious minorities - first one of their agents - in this case, sheriff Doran - earns their trust, and then they cook up a plan, come with machine guns in the darkness of the night with so called "search warrants" and just take people away, without any witnesses. Thank God this is USA where some people stand up for the rights of unjustly persecuted!

ed | 7:00 p.m. June 4, 2008

Gail wrote: "This whole case would have been vastly different if the Fundamentalists had been open and forthcomeing with information. When you have a group of people who are being justly investigated and they refuse to give out correct names and family relationships, the whole setup would be suspicious. What if CPS did NOT investicate--then there would be an outcry of them not doing their job. They could not just ignore the allegations. They had to do what they did. The parents should have been honest with the police and CPS. They chose not to be and then they did not like the results. Why would the law in Texas exclude them from telling the truth."

I suggest you take a little time to read the 4th and 5th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution.

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