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FLDS to quit underage marriages
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FLDS Finally Admit | 11:55 a.m. June 3, 2008
So, the FLDS finally admitted that they indeed practiced underage marriages. By
saying they are no longer going to practice them they just admitted that they
were practicing them. Someone file some criminal charges PLEASE!!!
Luana Hofeling | 12:05 p.m. June 3, 2008
It's interesting that anonymous can talk about exterminating people/and
"Teacher's" husband, who drives a truck in the south, and has had
the same comment made to him. I wonder what church they go to and if their
Sunday sermons rival obama's pastor?
I am so happy that the children are released from captivity and are/or will be back with their mothers. And to the "lawyer" above, I can't imagine that you went through any reputable law school.
Texas has shown itself to be above any law and not just with what they've done to the flds, but waco, branch dividians etc. How now can they (cps) possibly be trusted to investigate? They have to HAVE TO get some proof that what they did was legal.
No I do not belong to the flds, but I happen to love children and if there is wrong doing - arrest the perps. Leave the children alone!
I am so happy that the children are released from captivity and are/or will be back with their mothers. And to the "lawyer" above, I can't imagine that you went through any reputable law school.
Texas has shown itself to be above any law and not just with what they've done to the flds, but waco, branch dividians etc. How now can they (cps) possibly be trusted to investigate? They have to HAVE TO get some proof that what they did was legal.
No I do not belong to the flds, but I happen to love children and if there is wrong doing - arrest the perps. Leave the children alone!
Re: Ray | 12:06 p.m. June 3, 2008
Good point!! Since Texas has given up their stand for traditional marriage, they
will lose trying to forbid polygamy. Forbidding plural marriages will amount to
religious descrimination. To be honest, I'd rather see plural mariages than
homosexual ones; but of course I'd rather see neither.
All morality comes from somewhere and until we can openly acknowledge the bible and God as our source of moral inspiration, anything goes.
All morality comes from somewhere and until we can openly acknowledge the bible and God as our source of moral inspiration, anything goes.
Comments continue below
Samme | 12:11 p.m. June 3, 2008
"The authorities obviously wanted to hurt the church as much as they could,
and that is religious persecution, and that is illegal here in the
U.S.A."
You got that right... And I hope someone sues the pants off Texas for the violation of civil and human rights.
I don't think it will be any of the FLDS. They seem way too humble conciliatory to want to cause anyone trouble.
You got that right... And I hope someone sues the pants off Texas for the violation of civil and human rights.
I don't think it will be any of the FLDS. They seem way too humble conciliatory to want to cause anyone trouble.
Protect the kids! | 12:11 p.m. June 3, 2008
Don't look to Attorney General Mark Shirtleff to protect any of these
children... he's up for re-election and doesn't want to rock the boat!
wrz | 12:27 p.m. June 3, 2008
"That presents some problems: First do they mean legal civil marriage or
so-called "spiritual" marriage?"
Spiritual marriage is not unlike just shacking up. People do it all the time and it doesn't seem to be much of a concern. So what's your beef?
Spiritual marriage is not unlike just shacking up. People do it all the time and it doesn't seem to be much of a concern. So what's your beef?
Wonderful | 12:27 p.m. June 3, 2008
Re: Protect the kids comment - People need to stop rocking boats just for the
sheer pleasure of capsizing it and hoping everyone onboard drowns. I will
support the actions of the AGs of Utah and Arizona over Texas any day of the
week.
Disgusted | 12:33 p.m. June 3, 2008
Okay! Why is so many people wanting Texas sued??You should be worried about the
little kids that are being sent back to the ranch/where the perverts lie in wait
for them.
Red | 12:35 p.m. June 3, 2008
To all the "polygamy is illegal" nattering nabobs:
"Polygamy" isn't against the law in Texas. When Texas Justice comes after a polygamist, the prosecution is for "bigamy." In Texas, "bigamy" is defined as marrying or "living under the appearance of marriage" with more than one partner at a time.
But, wait, there's MORE!
Texas Code defines a "nonmarital conjugal cohabitation agreement." Unlike marriages, Texas doesn't limit someone to one NMCC agreement at a time. It also doesn't prohibit one or more NMCC agreements and one legal marriage.
As near as I can figure, you have to be at least 17 to enter into a NMCC agreement; but, since the FLDS have foresworn "child brides," this shouldn't be a problem.
So, to comply with Texas law, all you need is a "spiritual marriage" form that says, "this form is a Non-Marriage Conjugal Cohabitation agreement."
you can't be guilty of "living under the appearance of marriage" if you've got a signed, notarized "non-marriage agreement."
Poof: Texas polygamy that's "as legal as sea salt."
"Polygamy" isn't against the law in Texas. When Texas Justice comes after a polygamist, the prosecution is for "bigamy." In Texas, "bigamy" is defined as marrying or "living under the appearance of marriage" with more than one partner at a time.
But, wait, there's MORE!
Texas Code defines a "nonmarital conjugal cohabitation agreement." Unlike marriages, Texas doesn't limit someone to one NMCC agreement at a time. It also doesn't prohibit one or more NMCC agreements and one legal marriage.
As near as I can figure, you have to be at least 17 to enter into a NMCC agreement; but, since the FLDS have foresworn "child brides," this shouldn't be a problem.
So, to comply with Texas law, all you need is a "spiritual marriage" form that says, "this form is a Non-Marriage Conjugal Cohabitation agreement."
you can't be guilty of "living under the appearance of marriage" if you've got a signed, notarized "non-marriage agreement."
Poof: Texas polygamy that's "as legal as sea salt."
to flds admitting it | 12:36 p.m. June 3, 2008
Producing a policy does not mean anything. I hereby create a policy that only
air breathing humans may post on Deseret News effectively immediately. All none
air breathers must now cease posting.
to flds admit guilt | 12:42 p.m. June 3, 2008
Another new policy: Only those humans that are over 50% water may post on
Deseret News.
The problem is that underage pregnancy at the Ranch was actually statistically significant in that the rate is LOWER than outside the Ranch in TEXAS. They were picked on for being different, not for underage pregnancy which again was much lower than anywhere else in TX.
The problem is that underage pregnancy at the Ranch was actually statistically significant in that the rate is LOWER than outside the Ranch in TEXAS. They were picked on for being different, not for underage pregnancy which again was much lower than anywhere else in TX.
To wrz | 12:42 p.m. June 3, 2008
wrz and the rest of the FLDS don't seem to understand the concept of
agency. Maybe because they've never been able to choose for themselves.
It's one thing is some teenage girl and boy out on a date choose to
"shack up," but it's another thing entirely if a mom and dad tell
their 15 year old daughter she has to go marry someone ten plus years older than
her otherwise she's going to hell.
Anonymous | 12:59 p.m. June 3, 2008
Perhaps Thomas and wrz are forgetting that outside the Zion curtain the age of
consent differs greatly from how they were raised.
Whoaaaa | 1:06 p.m. June 3, 2008
It's time to stop FLDS shack up practices done in the name of God. I
don't think God is too happy or enjoys being blamed for the sick
perversions of his children here on earth.
Teens | 1:07 p.m. June 3, 2008
Why does TX only care about FLDS underage teens when in 2001 there were just
under 20000 underage teens in TX. Why are FLDS girls so much more valuable than
the 2 in my own subdivision?
soloman | 1:12 p.m. June 3, 2008
So who one? The state gets away with holding children as ransom to takeover
antother village. Next will be a review that will find breaches in the sverice
plans becaus now they have entered the jurisidction of CPS. Who will exact its
payment.
J-man | 1:37 p.m. June 3, 2008
Any bets on how soon before the first of many FLDS flee the YFZ and go
underground to avoid following the judge's order???
Hey disgusted | 1:37 p.m. June 3, 2008
The problem is that the CPS could not prove there were ANY perverts to the Court
of Appeals and the Supreme Court of Texas.
To To wrz | 1:42 p.m. June 3, 2008
The bigger problem is that many outside the FLDS do not understand that the
females have more rights than they want to believe. Most FLDS marriages seem to
be with men near their own age. You also seem to forget that many, many females
outside the FLDS get pregnant by the men whose children they babysit. My cousin
was one of them and nothing happened to him. He was 21 years older than she.
Ultimately she aborted. Again, why pick on the FLDS when plenty of these same
types of relationships occur outside the FLDS with not a hint of potential
prosecution. Is it because they keep the pregnancies and love and raise them?
Wingnut | 1:42 p.m. June 3, 2008
I renounce flying to the moon using only walnuts as wings. If it offended you
that you think I'd been doing that, again I'm sorry and will post
haste quit.
Is this an admission of guilt, not really. If you think I'd been doing it and it appeases you, is that a good thing for me? Probably so.
Is this an admission of guilt, not really. If you think I'd been doing it and it appeases you, is that a good thing for me? Probably so.
John Lambert | 1:43 p.m. June 3, 2008
I think we should grant the FLDS a grandfather plan on underage marriage. We
should try and achieve the following goals.
If our goal is to end sexual relations with underaged women than we should decide the following. What do we do about FLDS women who are under age 18 and currently married? Do we tell everyone that there is to be no sexual relations between such women and their husbands until the women are 18? Or do we work out a compromise age? Or do we just say that since they are still practicing polygamy and that is illegal we will not cut any deal with them?
My best suggestion is offering two conditions. As long as the FLDS stop marriages of women under age 18 across the board, we will not bring any charges of inproper relations with a minor for cases involving women who are as of today at least 17. I am trying to think of a way to offer men who have a "spiritual wife" under age 17 a way to be exempt from prosecution for having a child by their "spiritual wife" once she turns 17.
If our goal is to end sexual relations with underaged women than we should decide the following. What do we do about FLDS women who are under age 18 and currently married? Do we tell everyone that there is to be no sexual relations between such women and their husbands until the women are 18? Or do we work out a compromise age? Or do we just say that since they are still practicing polygamy and that is illegal we will not cut any deal with them?
My best suggestion is offering two conditions. As long as the FLDS stop marriages of women under age 18 across the board, we will not bring any charges of inproper relations with a minor for cases involving women who are as of today at least 17. I am trying to think of a way to offer men who have a "spiritual wife" under age 17 a way to be exempt from prosecution for having a child by their "spiritual wife" once she turns 17.
Moniker | 1:47 p.m. June 3, 2008
I agree with Wonderful. There has been no love lost between the Utah AG and the
FLDS.
The AG's approach has been supported by the majority of Utahns because we have seen the past failures when attempts were made to stop polygamy in a frontal approach.
Though I don't agree with Shurtleffs' surly attitude toward the FLDS, I don't like Jessop's toward Shurtleff, either. I don't think open animosity is in the interest of what ultimately becomes a compromise.
Shurtleff's reasoned legal approach has protected Utah from legal liabilities while accomplishing what is actually possible. Utah may be the only state with experience that covers all the ground from local to the Supreme courts. If something useful comes from the Texas experience the Utah AG will add it to the tools available.
We are a small population state and cannot afford Texas-size liabilities. The Texas DFPS(includes CPS) budget is $2.1 Billion while the entire budget for the State of Utah is only about $8 Billion.
Let Texas pay for the mistakes.
The AG's approach has been supported by the majority of Utahns because we have seen the past failures when attempts were made to stop polygamy in a frontal approach.
Though I don't agree with Shurtleffs' surly attitude toward the FLDS, I don't like Jessop's toward Shurtleff, either. I don't think open animosity is in the interest of what ultimately becomes a compromise.
Shurtleff's reasoned legal approach has protected Utah from legal liabilities while accomplishing what is actually possible. Utah may be the only state with experience that covers all the ground from local to the Supreme courts. If something useful comes from the Texas experience the Utah AG will add it to the tools available.
We are a small population state and cannot afford Texas-size liabilities. The Texas DFPS(includes CPS) budget is $2.1 Billion while the entire budget for the State of Utah is only about $8 Billion.
Let Texas pay for the mistakes.
To wingnut | 1:52 p.m. June 3, 2008
I truly am offended and deem you unworthy to raise progeny how and forever. I
am aghast that you would suggest walnuts, when clearly pecans are infinitely
superior.
John Lambert | 1:54 p.m. June 3, 2008
It is hard to know, since most of what we get of FLDS thought is filtered
through those who want to denounce that group.
Others have pointed out that LDS emphasize raising righteous children, while FLDS emphasize just having as many as you can. I would admit that despite church leaders constant and repeated emphasis on the raising of children up in righteousness, the efforts of at least some LDS parents are less than perfect. I am not saying that people whose children stray from the iron rod are bad parents, the input and outcome in child rearing is not easy to link, for some people have horrible parents and turn out good, I am just saying that I am sure no parent is perfect.
However my main point is that to the FLDS having children is a religious duty, felt at least as much if not more than by LDS people. We have to consider this when approaching the right way to end underage marriage.
Yet, if we do actually believe in the theory behind statutory rape, that people below a certain age are incapable of giving consent, we have to consider the "spiritual wives" feelings.
Others have pointed out that LDS emphasize raising righteous children, while FLDS emphasize just having as many as you can. I would admit that despite church leaders constant and repeated emphasis on the raising of children up in righteousness, the efforts of at least some LDS parents are less than perfect. I am not saying that people whose children stray from the iron rod are bad parents, the input and outcome in child rearing is not easy to link, for some people have horrible parents and turn out good, I am just saying that I am sure no parent is perfect.
However my main point is that to the FLDS having children is a religious duty, felt at least as much if not more than by LDS people. We have to consider this when approaching the right way to end underage marriage.
Yet, if we do actually believe in the theory behind statutory rape, that people below a certain age are incapable of giving consent, we have to consider the "spiritual wives" feelings.
Anonymous | 1:54 p.m. June 3, 2008
There is a great scene in the classic film "Pleasantville" where the
good ol' boys are frightened to death of any woman having a mind of her
own. "Honey, I'm home. Where's my dinner?!"
whines the wimpy husband. But alas, his wife is out pursuing her own interests - without him.
The fear on the faces of the town's menfolk is hilarious.
Conservatism at its finest.
whines the wimpy husband. But alas, his wife is out pursuing her own interests - without him.
The fear on the faces of the town's menfolk is hilarious.
Conservatism at its finest.
yeah right | 1:57 p.m. June 3, 2008
I believe that the FLDS definition of "underage for legal consent" is
way different than the definition of each state in which they reside. I also
believe they will make an honest effort to not assign nay girl to marriage prior
to the age of ten. Therefore, our collective minds should be eased.
John Lambert | 1:59 p.m. June 3, 2008
This is one of those complexed situations where there seems to be no answer.
On one hand we have to figure out how to end the forcing of children into
marriages. On the other we have to consider that the FLDS feel a strong need to
have children, to stop them from doing this is to prevent them from fulfilling a
religious duty. With those who are not married yet I can see a workable
solution. However, those who feel they are already marriaed feel they are under
commandment to have children, so we have to at least consider a way to give them
standing. One way would be for them on becoming 17 to have the option to fill
out a legal form of consent to the relationship with a given man. However, this
would essential be setting up a legal framework appraoching polygamy, and in
Utah I believe would probably violate two if not more provisions of the State
Constitution. I have no good answer to this problem.
Thomas | 2:01 p.m. June 3, 2008
Red -- Thanks for the infor re: NMCC arrangements. That's about what I
thought.
Anonymous | 2:09 p.m. June 3, 2008
Those raised within this culture must understand that though they were
conditioned to believe it's okay to marry a child - this sort of thing is
frowned upon outside the Zion Curtain.
Condemned even.
Some girls start their menstrual cycle as early as 11 years old. This does NOT mean they are ready for marriage in other cultures.
Condemned even.
Some girls start their menstrual cycle as early as 11 years old. This does NOT mean they are ready for marriage in other cultures.
Anonymous | 2:24 p.m. June 3, 2008
YFZ should:
1. End polygamy
2. No marriages civil or otherwise until the girls are 18 years old and encourage education if they choose that instead of marriage.
3. Freedom of choice of who to marry for the girls and guys.
4. Encourage education for all, including night classes for the adults who seem pitifully uneducated.
5. End child labor.
6. Keep the boys until they are educated.
Protect the kids! | 2:29 p.m. June 3, 2008
Mark Shurtleff has two faces... one talks tough when discussing the FLDS with
the media calling them the American Taliban... the other stands in front of the
FLDS with a sympathetic voice (May 8th, 2008 in St. George) and tells them that
polygamy should no longer be a felony.
He will do what ever it takes to get re-elected!
In the end, young girls will be raped by old men because nothing was done.
He will do what ever it takes to get re-elected!
In the end, young girls will be raped by old men because nothing was done.
wyogirl | 2:31 p.m. June 3, 2008
Willy says they will stop underage marriages - marriage as defined by who? Does
he mean they will stop the systematic statutory rape of assigned shack-up
honey's or does he mean that the few LEGAL FLDS marriages will all be to
women over 18? The FLDS have done a great job of skirting the polygamy laws for
decades by renaming marriage.
Val-gal - you think a simple conversation could have fixed this? You think Warren would have said "oh, sure - thanks for asking?" Ha ha ha. These people have declared Jeffs perfect - Willy is one of his stooges. They will defend Jeffs to the end - those that had the chance did it in court even though it could have cost them their children. They chose Jeffs over their kids.
Aren't the FLDS women who have obviously had children before they were of legal age a pretty good source of information - allegation proved?
So, if I start a religion that requires me to sacrifice hitch-hikers can I claim religious persecution? Will you all stand up for me?
How about we only have as many children as we can support ourselves - regardless of beliefs.
Val-gal - you think a simple conversation could have fixed this? You think Warren would have said "oh, sure - thanks for asking?" Ha ha ha. These people have declared Jeffs perfect - Willy is one of his stooges. They will defend Jeffs to the end - those that had the chance did it in court even though it could have cost them their children. They chose Jeffs over their kids.
Aren't the FLDS women who have obviously had children before they were of legal age a pretty good source of information - allegation proved?
So, if I start a religion that requires me to sacrifice hitch-hikers can I claim religious persecution? Will you all stand up for me?
How about we only have as many children as we can support ourselves - regardless of beliefs.
joy | 2:37 p.m. June 3, 2008
High school students all over the country are now going to proms and high school
graduation ceremonies.
Wonder what these poor FLDS children are doing?
No new prom dress for the girls, is there?
How many tuxedos are being rented or bought for the boys?
Graduation gowns and caps for the senior's?
Wonder what these poor FLDS children are doing?
No new prom dress for the girls, is there?
How many tuxedos are being rented or bought for the boys?
Graduation gowns and caps for the senior's?
John Lambert | 2:37 p.m. June 3, 2008
To the pro-Missourian:
The FLDS are not a threat to our civilization. I have yet to see the FLDS recuit anyone in Michigan.
Personally, I doubt our civilization is threatened by small groups like the FLDS. I think we are more threatened by the drup culture that leads so many children to never become productive members of society.
The FLDS are not a threat to our civilization. I have yet to see the FLDS recuit anyone in Michigan.
Personally, I doubt our civilization is threatened by small groups like the FLDS. I think we are more threatened by the drup culture that leads so many children to never become productive members of society.
John Lambert | 3:03 p.m. June 3, 2008
To Chuck Schroeder:
In Utah there is no provision for a marriage under the age of 15. It is not legal to marry anyone under the age of 15 in Utah. However, as Utah has consistently insisted, without the benefit of having a legal marriage, sexual relations with girls under the age of 18 by significantly older men clearly fall under statutory rape laws.
This is one thing that is unclear. Are the FLDS saying they will stop 14 and 15 year olds marrying in Texas, or will they insist for a girl to marry in Texas she must be 18?
I am still wondering what Mexico's law is, and if a lot of FLDS people will soon be making short trips to Mexico.
In Utah there is no provision for a marriage under the age of 15. It is not legal to marry anyone under the age of 15 in Utah. However, as Utah has consistently insisted, without the benefit of having a legal marriage, sexual relations with girls under the age of 18 by significantly older men clearly fall under statutory rape laws.
This is one thing that is unclear. Are the FLDS saying they will stop 14 and 15 year olds marrying in Texas, or will they insist for a girl to marry in Texas she must be 18?
I am still wondering what Mexico's law is, and if a lot of FLDS people will soon be making short trips to Mexico.
John Lambert | 3:40 p.m. June 3, 2008
It is not 14 year old girls and boys having sex with eachother. It is
14-year-old girls having sex with 21-year-old men, or even older. Stop
accepting the lies that the liberal establishment palms off on you in their
arguments for sex education.
Anyway, the whole basis of statutory rape law is the assumption that under a certain age people are not capable of consenting to sex.
Anyway, the whole basis of statutory rape law is the assumption that under a certain age people are not capable of consenting to sex.
COSMO | 3:43 p.m. June 3, 2008
So many of the comments on this subject, over the months, reveal the hate, and
bigotry that has led to so much misery throughout the centuries. Some though
tried to offer help, and constructive observations.
This subject, like many is frought with great passion
of feeling and thought.
I would say to the FLDS, that they should obey the law of the land,and not violate the laws of God also.
As to the State of Texas, your CPS is shown lacking a
great deal in facts ,logic, and judgement, as many of
the various States CPS agencies do.
I would like to remind all those interested,that the laws of marriage were originally a theological construct, and not the domain of government.
However, history and the present, are what they are.
The tearing apart of families has never solved any
perceived problems in the past or now. In fact, one of the major indicators of a nation in decline is,
how that nation turns in upon its own people, in an effort to maintain itself. It always ends in failure.
If the FLDS feel compelled to enter in plural marriage, they should maintain a higher standard,only
those 21 or older permitted.
tried to offer help, and constructive observations.
This subject, like many is frought with great passion
of feeling and thought.
I would say to the FLDS, that they should obey the law of the land,and not violate the laws of God also.
As to the State of Texas, your CPS is shown lacking a
great deal in facts ,logic, and judgement, as many of
the various States CPS agencies do.
I would like to remind all those interested,that the laws of marriage were originally a theological construct, and not the domain of government.
However, history and the present, are what they are.
The tearing apart of families has never solved any
perceived problems in the past or now. In fact, one of the major indicators of a nation in decline is,
how that nation turns in upon its own people, in an effort to maintain itself. It always ends in failure.
If the FLDS feel compelled to enter in plural marriage, they should maintain a higher standard,only
those 21 or older permitted.
John Lambert | 3:48 p.m. June 3, 2008
Considering how little is covered by most prom dresses and how many teens
engage in sex during or after prom I think it is a good thing that the FLDS will
not be there.
Anonymous | 3:51 p.m. June 3, 2008
*** I find the comments of Anonymous chilling. My husband drives a truck and he
has actually been threatened while driving in the South for "being a
Mormon". ***
When was the last time in this country a Mormon was killed for being a Mormon? I've lived in the South and never got threatened once, and never knew anyone who did, either (back in the days when I was a good Mormon boy).
*** "I think that the lesson in this is to be more tolerant of others beliefs. We need to stand up for the rights of each other." ***
This isn't about "tolerating" other people's beliefs. It's about how one person's practices affect others. We realize there are limits to what people can do (rather than just believe). We may like to pretend that all sorts of different cultures gan get along side by side if we just tolerate one another, but history shows that to be the case where, exactly? Nowhere.
Polygamy and monogamy lead down separate paths to vastly different governments and cultures. Take a look at the nations in this world where polygamy is legal and see what I mean.
When was the last time in this country a Mormon was killed for being a Mormon? I've lived in the South and never got threatened once, and never knew anyone who did, either (back in the days when I was a good Mormon boy).
*** "I think that the lesson in this is to be more tolerant of others beliefs. We need to stand up for the rights of each other." ***
This isn't about "tolerating" other people's beliefs. It's about how one person's practices affect others. We realize there are limits to what people can do (rather than just believe). We may like to pretend that all sorts of different cultures gan get along side by side if we just tolerate one another, but history shows that to be the case where, exactly? Nowhere.
Polygamy and monogamy lead down separate paths to vastly different governments and cultures. Take a look at the nations in this world where polygamy is legal and see what I mean.
George Washington | 3:52 p.m. June 3, 2008
*** "To Anonymous #1: I can see why you left yourself anonymous"
***
Who here isn't anonymous? I can use any name I like.
Who here isn't anonymous? I can use any name I like.
age | 3:53 p.m. June 3, 2008
In Mexico a girl may marry at age 12, but may be overruled by regional rules. 5
States still permit 14 year olds to marry in the U.S. And 2 allow for marriage
at age 15.
To John Lambert | 3:56 p.m. June 3, 2008
The two girls that were in middle school with my daughter here in Atlanta, were
not made pregnant by boys their own age but men. I know a girl that was flat
out raped at age 15 by a boy 20 and still no charges because the girl was deemed
too hysterical to effectively testify. The boy walked free. So again, why were
the FLDS picked on?
Anonymous | 4:01 p.m. June 3, 2008
Simple solution: marry 16 year old legally. When she's 18, divorce her and
marry a new 16 year old the legal way, while still keeping the first one as a
"spiritual wife." Lather, rinse, repeat.
It only goes to show how easy it is to skirt the law. That would allow the FLDS to keep their "promise" while still changing pretty much nothing. Maybe no more marriages to 14 or 15 year olds, but since these kids are born inside their colonies they can probably fudge on the birth certificates to, no?
It only goes to show how easy it is to skirt the law. That would allow the FLDS to keep their "promise" while still changing pretty much nothing. Maybe no more marriages to 14 or 15 year olds, but since these kids are born inside their colonies they can probably fudge on the birth certificates to, no?
wrz | 4:02 p.m. June 3, 2008
"...but it's another thing entirely if a mom and dad tell their 15
year old daughter she has to go marry someone ten plus years older than her
otherwise she's going to hell."
And you have proof that she won't go to hell? I think it's your word against theirs.
And I don't know, but I don't think you got their "word" on the issue correct. Have you heard someone in authority tell you that, or is it hearsay that you are willingly and with glee passing on? Please enlighten us.
And you have proof that she won't go to hell? I think it's your word against theirs.
And I don't know, but I don't think you got their "word" on the issue correct. Have you heard someone in authority tell you that, or is it hearsay that you are willingly and with glee passing on? Please enlighten us.
Samme | 4:13 p.m. June 3, 2008
"Do we tell everyone that there is to be no sexual relations between such
women and their husbands until the women are 18?"
We'll appoint you to do the follow-up to assure that there are no sexual relations. Bring a pillow and a cot and we will set you up in their bedroom... or hayloft... or behind the barn... or... Wait! Just follow them wherever they go, day and night.
We'll appoint you to do the follow-up to assure that there are no sexual relations. Bring a pillow and a cot and we will set you up in their bedroom... or hayloft... or behind the barn... or... Wait! Just follow them wherever they go, day and night.
mypc | 4:20 p.m. June 3, 2008
TO: jt actually I have a right to break the speeding laws.......I am required
to follow the flow of traffic on the freeways and during rush hour it moves
along about 75 MPH if there is no problem. I was going a mite too slow and a
motocycle officer hollared..move it!
Anonymous | 4:24 p.m. June 3, 2008
I come from a culture that believes sex with minors is immoral and illegal.
Some on this posts come from a culture where it's commonplace.
One of the two of us gravely mistaken.
Some on this posts come from a culture where it's commonplace.
One of the two of us gravely mistaken.
In other news: | 4:27 p.m. June 3, 2008
-Real Salt Lake will stop losing.
-Frank Layden will stop eating lasagna.
-Chris Buttars will stop saying stupid things.
-Frank Layden will stop eating lasagna.
-Chris Buttars will stop saying stupid things.
Props | 4:29 p.m. June 3, 2008
Do they want props for announcing that adult men will no longer hook up with
young girls? That is generally accepted behavior by our society, they
don't get props for that.
And do we really believe them in the first place?
And will they also give up the welfare fraud payments by claiming that they do not know who the fathers are of all the children of each wife > 2? If you want to have a bunch of kids, that is fine, but you need to be able to afford to support them from nonfraudulant sources of income.
And do we really believe them in the first place?
And will they also give up the welfare fraud payments by claiming that they do not know who the fathers are of all the children of each wife > 2? If you want to have a bunch of kids, that is fine, but you need to be able to afford to support them from nonfraudulant sources of income.
realitycheck | 4:29 p.m. June 3, 2008
the FLDS was "picked on" because they STEAL all future ability from
children.
I don't know how many times I have to say it, but removing a child's ability to have a life outside of your "group" is called "STEALING THE CHILD'S FUTURE" and although it is legal, it is nonetheless one of the most immoral things a parent can do.
And to do it in the name of God is like putting major salt on the wound. These parents deserve no mercy for the crime they are committing.
I don't know how many times I have to say it, but removing a child's ability to have a life outside of your "group" is called "STEALING THE CHILD'S FUTURE" and although it is legal, it is nonetheless one of the most immoral things a parent can do.
And to do it in the name of God is like putting major salt on the wound. These parents deserve no mercy for the crime they are committing.
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