Reader comments
FLDS to quit underage marriages
152 comments | Read story
illegal | 1:41 a.m. June 3, 2008
The only way to stop this plague is to make illegal all polygamous marriages.
But at the same time make a 5 year transition to split up existing marriages. We
have to stop this both from starting up and from perpetuating. It took a
generation for the LDS polygamy to end (at least). Now we see why -- it is
tricky to separate mothers, children and fathers and put a complete stop all at
once.
Anyone else see the irony of the FLDS situation coming at the same time as gay marriage in CA? It's easier to say marriage is only between one man and one woman. Otherwise, you open up to all kinds of situations with someone at risk. In polygamy it is the women and children. For gay marriage, no one will say because it is not PC.
Anyone else see the irony of the FLDS situation coming at the same time as gay marriage in CA? It's easier to say marriage is only between one man and one woman. Otherwise, you open up to all kinds of situations with someone at risk. In polygamy it is the women and children. For gay marriage, no one will say because it is not PC.
Patriot count | 2:28 a.m. June 3, 2008
as a American such a requirement scares me greatly as I don't feel that the
Civil Government has the right to tell any religion what they can or can not
Believe in (regardless of what it is). one would think that simply making things
that are wrong Illegal and punishing violates would work. as far as Polygamy
goes, Polygamy is not wrong its just illegal. But just the same tell it is
legal, lock violators up, how hard can it be to Follow the rules and Protect
America?
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 4:15 a.m. June 3, 2008
Sorry, but a minor cannot legally consent to any form of marriage. Anything
else is illegal.
Oh, and what do you mean by "think[ing] teh folks of Missouri had the right idea?" Do you mean they had the right idea in signing an order to forcibly remove or otherwise exterminate (also known as genocide in some circles) the Mormon people? What a crass and arrogant statement. Would you dare say something like that about Jews, Blacks, Women, or Democrats?
Oh, and what do you mean by "think[ing] teh folks of Missouri had the right idea?" Do you mean they had the right idea in signing an order to forcibly remove or otherwise exterminate (also known as genocide in some circles) the Mormon people? What a crass and arrogant statement. Would you dare say something like that about Jews, Blacks, Women, or Democrats?
mike | 4:22 a.m. June 3, 2008
In response to Anonymous, While I respect your right to express your opinion I
do not agree. It was the very law's in our constitution that protected
these people. That is why this case has been devastated. A government cannot
simply storm a compound and unlawfully detain children and their mothers and
then swiftly disperse the children all over the state of texas without some
proof of wrong doing.
Relinda | 6:16 a.m. June 3, 2008
I want some book publishers to contact the FLDS and help them write some book on
their "adventures" in CPS-land and the Texas Courts. They can do it
under a pseudouym to keep Texas from holding the book against them and taking
their kids as punishment for it.
VA gal | 6:19 a.m. June 3, 2008
I am glad that FLDS will not conduct marriages for young ladies and gentlemen
under 17/18. However that effect could have been achieved without traumatizing
450 children. A simple conversation with the FLDS leadership could have done
it.
The authorities obviously wanted to hurt the church as much as they could, and that is religious persecution, and that is illegal here in the U.S.A.. For those that think the FLDS religion is terrible and should be persecuted. It could be you next. What if the state you reside in decides they don't like catholics, or evangelicals, or those that homeschool. When authority is allowed to run amok without reference to the supreme law of the land , everyone is threatened.
The authorities obviously wanted to hurt the church as much as they could, and that is religious persecution, and that is illegal here in the U.S.A.. For those that think the FLDS religion is terrible and should be persecuted. It could be you next. What if the state you reside in decides they don't like catholics, or evangelicals, or those that homeschool. When authority is allowed to run amok without reference to the supreme law of the land , everyone is threatened.
Anonymous | 6:40 a.m. June 3, 2008
>
You'll notice the article about Sarah says she's a registered nurse. How do you think she became a RN if she was taken out of school at a young age, to keep her as dependent on the FLDS cult and as fearful of society as possible? You are prejudice and so are ignorin the facts and the truth. Heavenly Father can bless you with an open mind and He can soften your heart. Do what is right and let the consequense follow.
You'll notice the article about Sarah says she's a registered nurse. How do you think she became a RN if she was taken out of school at a young age, to keep her as dependent on the FLDS cult and as fearful of society as possible? You are prejudice and so are ignorin the facts and the truth. Heavenly Father can bless you with an open mind and He can soften your heart. Do what is right and let the consequense follow.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 6:46 a.m. June 3, 2008
Just learn from History, so we won't do thing's all over again, not
dwell on it we all have speed-bumps in our trial here on Planet Earth, we should
only spotlight the good experiences to other's. Not Pedo-garbage like this.
The same day a judge signed an order returning hundreds of FLDS children taken
in the raid to their anxious parents, the polygamous sect pledged to no longer
perform underage marriages. "In the future, the church commits that it will
not preside over the marriage of any woman under the age of legal consent in the
jurisdiction in which the marriage takes place," this also took place in
the 1800's in the LDS Church as well into the 1900's to.
FINALLY | 6:55 a.m. June 3, 2008
The FLDS have decided to abandon Warren Jeffs' practice of abusing young
underage girls!
Teacher | 7:13 a.m. June 3, 2008
I find the comments of Anonymous chilling. My husband drives a truck and he has
actually been threatened while driving in the South for "being a
Mormon". One person, when he learned my husband was LDS told him, "It
wouldn't bother me to kill you!" Yes, intolerance and hatred is alive
and well. Sad to say, if government agencies tolerate and/or encourage it, we
could see a return of real persecution as the pioneers endured. I think the
lesson in this for us is to make sure that we are tolerant with others'
beliefs. We must stand up together to protect each other's freedoms and
civil liberties. No, I don't agree with underage, arranged marriages.
I'm glad the FLDS church has stated that they will no longer perform them.
However, this situation could have been handled so much better than taking all
the children away from their mothers. I am so happy for them now that the
children are being returned. I have been heartsick over the whole situation. I
have felt helpless wondering what I could do to make a difference. I am so glad
that we can always pray!
Ray | 7:16 a.m. June 3, 2008
How ironic. By giving up the child brides and sticking to their spiritual
marriages, the FLDS is daring Texas to prosecute them under their polygamy laws.
If that happens, it will be another Lawrence v. Texas for sure!! Lawrence v.
Texas was the case that said that no state any more could prosecute
homosexuality.
It's now legal nation-wide to be gay, thanks to Texas.
If Texas pushes their polygamy or bigamy statue on a spiritual marriage, as opposed to a state-licensed marriage, they are sure to loose in flames like they did yesterday!
It's now legal nation-wide to be gay, thanks to Texas.
If Texas pushes their polygamy or bigamy statue on a spiritual marriage, as opposed to a state-licensed marriage, they are sure to loose in flames like they did yesterday!
More Finally | 7:16 a.m. June 3, 2008
I should imagine they will hit the road again, hide somewhere else. Another
border town, perhaps, where any raid ends with escaape out the back door.
Meanwhile, I'm planning all kinds of things for the religious compound
I'm going to build here, with such staunch support as shown here for
anything 'a little different' as long as you can call it religion, the
face of Utah is going to change.
Lawyer | 7:18 a.m. June 3, 2008
All plural marriages should be dissolved and this practice should bring those
violating this law to justice. Who cares about underage marriage? Plural
marriage is at the root of the problem. The authorities should bring them in,
just like the illegal aliens not here illegally. Let's clean up America!
Southern Utah Resident | 7:34 a.m. June 3, 2008
CPS FAILED THESE KIDS! As someone that knows these people very well I can say
that these children will be brainwashed with Warren Jeffs rhetoric and the young
girls will likely be "assigned" an old man for a husband and then
RAPED (remember the picture of Warren the pervert and his 12 year old victim).
The young boys can look forward to a 4th grade education before being "called" to do slave labor construction jobs. The boys that put up any resistance will be left homeless on the streets of Southern Utah.
These are disgraceful people.
The young boys can look forward to a 4th grade education before being "called" to do slave labor construction jobs. The boys that put up any resistance will be left homeless on the streets of Southern Utah.
These are disgraceful people.
Jettison Jeffs | 7:56 a.m. June 3, 2008
If the FLDS were smart, they'd dump Jeffs and find themselves a new
prophet. Warren has been a disaster as a leader and most of the FLDS legal
problems have been caused by his illegal practices.
Easier said than done, however, since Jeffs is married to dozens of women and has scores of children. Plus, most of the FLDS leadership is closely related to Uncle Warren.
Easier said than done, however, since Jeffs is married to dozens of women and has scores of children. Plus, most of the FLDS leadership is closely related to Uncle Warren.
J-man | 7:59 a.m. June 3, 2008
Don't kid yourself! Willie Jessop's word are mere lipservice to
appease the public.
Underage marriages will continue at YFZ, Colorado City, and Hildale. They will just be smarter by not taking any pictures or keep any records of the child brides.
Underage marriages will continue at YFZ, Colorado City, and Hildale. They will just be smarter by not taking any pictures or keep any records of the child brides.
Observer from afar | 8:02 a.m. June 3, 2008
If you think Texas is the only place the FLDS are being attacked, do a google
and find out about a move today by the government of British Columbia, in
Canada, to launch an investigation into polygamy in the town of Bountiful.
As I see all this, when it comes to the law it is illegal to be legally married to more than one spouse. If it is not a legal marriage, I doubt there is much the law can do about it.
People who choose to live together and not be legally married are not prosecuted. M&F or M&M or F&F. People who have affairs are not prosecuted. People who have a wife in one town and a mistress in another town are not prosecuted.
In the end it's a moral judgment not a legal judgment, unless there is something illegal going on such as abusing kids or beating your partner, etc.
As I see all this, when it comes to the law it is illegal to be legally married to more than one spouse. If it is not a legal marriage, I doubt there is much the law can do about it.
People who choose to live together and not be legally married are not prosecuted. M&F or M&M or F&F. People who have affairs are not prosecuted. People who have a wife in one town and a mistress in another town are not prosecuted.
In the end it's a moral judgment not a legal judgment, unless there is something illegal going on such as abusing kids or beating your partner, etc.
Re: Illegal | 8:16 a.m. June 3, 2008
It already is illegal. In fact, it's a felony in TX. The only way to stop
it, as you refer to, is to actually go after the men in the situation and press
charges. Instead, they went after the victims.
J T Browning | 8:18 a.m. June 3, 2008
The last I knew, polygamist marriages were against the law in all 50 states.
The fact that these people are "pledging" not to submit underage girls
to arranged marriages is a farce; they are still breaking the law with polygamy.
They have no inherent "right" to practice plural marriage, anymore
than motorists have a "right" to break the speed limit. Enforce the
law, and the entire issue of polygamy becomes moot.
Grandpa Phil | 8:30 a.m. June 3, 2008
"Anonymous" are you serious about that comment about the folks of
Missouri being right? Are you advocating the extermination of the LDS people
again like they did? Is that your solution when the courts are made accountable
for their misdeeds and justice is finally served? If the courts fail to act as
you wish they would to exterminate religious groups you disagree with, then the
"final solution" comes in the form of mob violence against the
innocent. Missouri's "solution" to the "problem"
didn't work out well for them as is evidenced by the expansion of the
Church into these modern times. The Lord said that a man might as well stand in
the middle of the Missouri river and raise his arms to turn it from its decreed
course than to hinder the work of the Lord. Why don't you try that
instead? I'd love to watch.
Anonymous | 8:30 a.m. June 3, 2008
*** "Do you mean they had the right idea in signing an order to forcibly
remove or otherwise exterminate (also known as genocide in some circles) the
Mormon people?" ***
I meant that they had the right to do what was necessary to end a pernicious way of life that threatened their very existence. It was not genocide. It was an attempt to end the sort of practices that we see in FLDS colonies. I will never understand the Mormon persecution complex.
*** "It was the very law's in our constitution that protected these people." ***
That's what I meant. If this is the only Constitutional recourse we have to fighting the practices of the FLDS, then we're in trouble as a society. The Constitution has become a suicide pact. Next up: let 20 million illegal immigrants overrun our country. Oh wait - they've already done that.
The FLDS can diggle their own kids. That's my very least concern. It's their parasitic ways that bother me, highlighted by their welfare abuse (which can theoretically be fixed) and the dumping of their unwanted male spawn on the rest of us to raise.
I meant that they had the right to do what was necessary to end a pernicious way of life that threatened their very existence. It was not genocide. It was an attempt to end the sort of practices that we see in FLDS colonies. I will never understand the Mormon persecution complex.
*** "It was the very law's in our constitution that protected these people." ***
That's what I meant. If this is the only Constitutional recourse we have to fighting the practices of the FLDS, then we're in trouble as a society. The Constitution has become a suicide pact. Next up: let 20 million illegal immigrants overrun our country. Oh wait - they've already done that.
The FLDS can diggle their own kids. That's my very least concern. It's their parasitic ways that bother me, highlighted by their welfare abuse (which can theoretically be fixed) and the dumping of their unwanted male spawn on the rest of us to raise.
Nebraska | 8:32 a.m. June 3, 2008
I sure hope the Texas CPS is paying the expensive gasoline bill so parents can
go accross the state to get their children.
ediddy | 8:38 a.m. June 3, 2008
With due respect to the legalities involved in this issue, it is readily
apparent that intolerance and outright bigotry is alive and well in our society.
Some of the insipid and intellectually vacant comments here would be laughable
if they were not so chilling. To many to list have supported demands,
allegations and false inuendo that are as flagrantly and disgustingly illegal as
the things they ignorantly decry in others. I would love to chalk it up to utter
ignorance, but I am certain that many who are making such comments are at least
educated, if repugnant.
Grandpa Phil. | 8:39 a.m. June 3, 2008
"Southern Utah Resident" needs to take a slow and LONG look in a
mirror as her last comment applies more to her than to anyone else. Amazing
that the allegations already proven false remain the tripe spouted by the
uneducated. I know you and yours are angry about not being able to pop those
corks over the destruction of the FLDS group but you are going to have to get
over it.
Willie Jessop | 8:39 a.m. June 3, 2008
Underage Marriage
By Donald Richter
Probably the question about the FLDS people that most readers still want to see addressed is the allegation that there is �a pervasive pattern of underage marriage.�
The charge is just that�an allegation. Authorities were convinced prior to the raid on the YFZ community that there was such a pattern. But what was their source of information? They relied on the statements of crusading, bitter ex-FLDS members. As reported in the Salt Lake Tribune, Sheriff David Doran stated in his April 6, 2008, affidavit �that over the past four years�[he] has worked with a confidential informant who is a former member of the FLDS�[and] that the confidential informant has provided�[him] with information regarding the FLDS on more than twenty occasions over the past several years.� Samuel W. Roundy states the case very well in his open letter to Governor Perry and Judge Walther: �This is akin to taking the testimony of an ex-wife who has left her husband and had a bitter divorce to find out what his character is like without using any other source of information."
By Donald Richter
Probably the question about the FLDS people that most readers still want to see addressed is the allegation that there is �a pervasive pattern of underage marriage.�
The charge is just that�an allegation. Authorities were convinced prior to the raid on the YFZ community that there was such a pattern. But what was their source of information? They relied on the statements of crusading, bitter ex-FLDS members. As reported in the Salt Lake Tribune, Sheriff David Doran stated in his April 6, 2008, affidavit �that over the past four years�[he] has worked with a confidential informant who is a former member of the FLDS�[and] that the confidential informant has provided�[him] with information regarding the FLDS on more than twenty occasions over the past several years.� Samuel W. Roundy states the case very well in his open letter to Governor Perry and Judge Walther: �This is akin to taking the testimony of an ex-wife who has left her husband and had a bitter divorce to find out what his character is like without using any other source of information."
Problem | 8:44 a.m. June 3, 2008
The problem with going after polygamy is that as long as they are not married by
law, all the law sees them as is consensual adults living with each other. If
they were to crack down on them for that they would have to lock up 1/2 of the
population for sleeping around. Same idea.
Simple Explainations | 8:44 a.m. June 3, 2008
It seems to me that the simplist explaination for why FLDS allowed underage
marriages was for financial reasons - one less mouth to feed. When you are
supporting a large family that savings helps.
Also, there is no reason that the birth rate isn't close to 50/50 on males and females. What happens to these men who are shorted on brides? Are they forced out of the hive? No - they just need to dig deeper for those younger brides.
That brings up another question. Is the rate of excommunication equal, lower, or higher among men when compared to the women of the FLDS faith. Removing the competition seems like path to follow to ensure adequate supplies of polygmist brides.
Also, there is no reason that the birth rate isn't close to 50/50 on males and females. What happens to these men who are shorted on brides? Are they forced out of the hive? No - they just need to dig deeper for those younger brides.
That brings up another question. Is the rate of excommunication equal, lower, or higher among men when compared to the women of the FLDS faith. Removing the competition seems like path to follow to ensure adequate supplies of polygmist brides.
To Anonymous | 8:59 a.m. June 3, 2008
For the billionth time, the YFZ is not on welfare. But if you're okay with
people committing genocide because you don't like what they believe,
welfare fraud is the least of your problems...
Roscoe | 9:00 a.m. June 3, 2008
I agree with Southern Utah Resident - these are disgraceful people. Willie
Jessop has proven himself to be a liar. Some people are saying "it could
be you next." That's ridiculous. Consequences come with actions.
Teacher | 9:06 a.m. June 3, 2008
I find the comments of Anonymous chilling..."I'm beginning to think
the folks in Missouri had the right idea." My husband, who travels for
work, was actually threatened for being a Mormon. One person said to him,
"It wouldn't bother me to kill you!" Apparently, intolerance is
alive and well!
No, I do not agree with underage, arranged marriages. I am glad that the FLDS have stated that they will no longer perform them. I am also relieved that the children will now be reunited with their mothers. However, I have been heartsick about this whole situation.
I think that the lesson in this is to be more tolerant of others beliefs. We need to stand up for the rights of each other. If we allow our government agencies to behave in the way the CPS acted in Texas, we could see a return of real persecution. This should concern everyone, not just LDS. Many different groups have experienced persecution. I believe one of our founding fathers once said "a threat to one man's freedom is a threat to every man's freedom." I don't remember the exact quote or person, but I think it is a very true statement.
No, I do not agree with underage, arranged marriages. I am glad that the FLDS have stated that they will no longer perform them. I am also relieved that the children will now be reunited with their mothers. However, I have been heartsick about this whole situation.
I think that the lesson in this is to be more tolerant of others beliefs. We need to stand up for the rights of each other. If we allow our government agencies to behave in the way the CPS acted in Texas, we could see a return of real persecution. This should concern everyone, not just LDS. Many different groups have experienced persecution. I believe one of our founding fathers once said "a threat to one man's freedom is a threat to every man's freedom." I don't remember the exact quote or person, but I think it is a very true statement.
Good! | 9:13 a.m. June 3, 2008
I am happy to see that some good has come out of this whole thing. If the FLDS
keep their word about ceasing underage marriages (which, by the way, they pretty
much admit just by the fact that they're agreeing to cease the practice!),
then God has managed to work all of this horrible ordeal into good--nothing less
than a miracle. I sincerely hope that the FLDS can heed this warning and begin
to see a little more clearly that their blind following of power-hungry leaders
and their refusal to follow the law of the land has cost them dearly. I never
wanted to see babies ripped from their mothers, but maybe that's what had
to happen for these folks to really get the message that they are responsible
for their decisions, no matter what the "prophet" says.
Are you kidding me? | 9:18 a.m. June 3, 2008
To Anonymous #1: I can see why you left yourself anonymous. The Missouri folks
had it right? You are championing the only religious based EXTERMINATION order
(as in, kill everybody that belongs to this religion) that this nation has ever
upheld. Do you also support the Hitler's Holocaust and slavery in the
south?
If you want to disagree with a religion, then disagree. Don't hate! There's not enough room in the world for that kind of hate.
If you want to disagree with a religion, then disagree. Don't hate! There's not enough room in the world for that kind of hate.
A Close Neighbor | 9:27 a.m. June 3, 2008
To Willie Jessop:
Please pass along a big "Thank You" for the FLDS letting their "light shine". We have known all along that we could not speak for you but only try to be a voice of reason and lend out faith and prayers. Those bent on keeping the old sterotypes going, either out of ignorance or revenge, are just left sounding silly when put up against the truth of the situation and the "light" of the people. Please keep it up.
Please pass along a big "Thank You" for the FLDS letting their "light shine". We have known all along that we could not speak for you but only try to be a voice of reason and lend out faith and prayers. Those bent on keeping the old sterotypes going, either out of ignorance or revenge, are just left sounding silly when put up against the truth of the situation and the "light" of the people. Please keep it up.
Anonymous | 9:39 a.m. June 3, 2008
Sounds like a manifesto to me
To "Willie Jessop" | 9:43 a.m. June 3, 2008
It may be only an "allegation" that underage marriages are
"pervasive" in the FLDS, but in my opinion even one is too many.
Despite what your opinion is of Elissa Wall, it is undisputed that the FLDS, and
her mother, sanctioned her marriage at 14. The girl in this article that wants
to remain in CPS custody and who is also an underage mother is another case.
That may not sound like a lot, but it's two too many IMHO! And yes, there
are many teenage pregnancies in the US, but that is another issue entirely--how
many of those were pushed into marriage by their church leaders and parents
prior to getting pregnant?! Not many I suspect. This is a crime because it is
sanctioned by adults--the same adults charged with protecting these children.
Stop covering for these folks--yes, they are free to exercise their religion,
but not at their childrens' expense.
R: Southern Utah Resident | 9:50 a.m. June 3, 2008
Obviously you judge from a heart void of charity.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 10:11 a.m. June 3, 2008
I would bet in Utah it's the same as in Texas also. In Taxas they can get
married at the age of 13. If after a hearing the court, sitting without a jury,
believes marriage to be in the best interest of the minor, the court, by order,
shall grant the minor permission to marry. The petition must be filed in the
county where a parent resides if a court has not awarded another person the
right to consent to marriage for the minor. If a court has awarded another
person the right to consent to marriage for the minor, the petition must be
filed in the county where that person resides. If no parent or person who has
the court-ordered right to consent to marriage for the minor resides in this
state, the petition must be filed in the county where the minor lives.
Tammy | 10:13 a.m. June 3, 2008
I'm qualified. Can I be the new FLDS prophet? I have one revelation after
another.
BeeCareful | 10:17 a.m. June 3, 2008
The FLDS say they will not allow "marriage" of girls younger than the
law allows with parental consent for the jurisdiction in which the marriage
takes place.
That presents some problems: First do they mean legal civil marriage or so-called "spiritual" marriage? If it is legal civil marriage, there can only be one. Under the laws of every state, one is all you get. If they mean "spiritual" (shacking up)then Katie bar the door. Since it really isn't "marriage" under the law, they can claim to be standing by their claim (no under age marriage) and still preside over dozens of under age "spiritual" unions.
Second: The marriage age, with parental consent, in some New England states remains what is was 100 years ago -- 12, 13. What's to stop them from just going there to do their under age marriages?
They really do need to pledge, affirm and promise to not allow sexual relations to take place between under age girls and older men... no matter what they call the "union." That would solve their problems in large part. After the girl turns 18, she can do what she wants. until then, leave her alone.
That presents some problems: First do they mean legal civil marriage or so-called "spiritual" marriage? If it is legal civil marriage, there can only be one. Under the laws of every state, one is all you get. If they mean "spiritual" (shacking up)then Katie bar the door. Since it really isn't "marriage" under the law, they can claim to be standing by their claim (no under age marriage) and still preside over dozens of under age "spiritual" unions.
Second: The marriage age, with parental consent, in some New England states remains what is was 100 years ago -- 12, 13. What's to stop them from just going there to do their under age marriages?
They really do need to pledge, affirm and promise to not allow sexual relations to take place between under age girls and older men... no matter what they call the "union." That would solve their problems in large part. After the girl turns 18, she can do what she wants. until then, leave her alone.
Say it out loud | 10:23 a.m. June 3, 2008
I think Texas could have helped these kids in a better way. They should have
thought about the long term wellbeing of the children and the trauma they might
inflict.
Ok, someone needs to say it. The government should ban all forms of immoral behavior and force everyone to live by the moral stands set by Texas. The following will be illegal: homosexuality, adultery, fornication, and plural marriage.
No, wait... Did you know that there are references supporting multiple wives in the Old Testament? So, ban all but plural marriage.
I struggle to see a difference between adultery and plural marriage.
Hum?
Ok, someone needs to say it. The government should ban all forms of immoral behavior and force everyone to live by the moral stands set by Texas. The following will be illegal: homosexuality, adultery, fornication, and plural marriage.
No, wait... Did you know that there are references supporting multiple wives in the Old Testament? So, ban all but plural marriage.
I struggle to see a difference between adultery and plural marriage.
Hum?
Jim in Reno | 10:27 a.m. June 3, 2008
What we should be very concerned about is the: Illegal search of person!
We can not allow Texas to set a precident here!
The 1st. Ammendment to the Constitution clearly states that there shall be no "Search of Person without proof of a crime; Thus D.N.A. harvesting is and, should remain off limits even ia a serious case of possible child abuse. I didn't write this; the Founding Fathers did.
Does anyone agree?
;
We can not allow Texas to set a precident here!
The 1st. Ammendment to the Constitution clearly states that there shall be no "Search of Person without proof of a crime; Thus D.N.A. harvesting is and, should remain off limits even ia a serious case of possible child abuse. I didn't write this; the Founding Fathers did.
Does anyone agree?
;
Jim in Reno | 10:43 a.m. June 3, 2008
Is anyone concerned about Texas Illegally seizing the DNA of these people?
The 1st. Ammendment clearly prohibits this,
under "search of person." I for one do not want the local school district to compell parents to submit to DNA collection before children can be registered for school. Or employers demand a "sample."
This could become a much worse problem than we have seen before; Could you or, my DNA convict us in assumtion some day? Could we be refused health care?
The FLDS case is much more than about child abuse; real or, suggested; Will the CPS ever destroy those "samples" What if this was your DNA..?
The 1st. Ammendment clearly prohibits this,
under "search of person." I for one do not want the local school district to compell parents to submit to DNA collection before children can be registered for school. Or employers demand a "sample."
This could become a much worse problem than we have seen before; Could you or, my DNA convict us in assumtion some day? Could we be refused health care?
The FLDS case is much more than about child abuse; real or, suggested; Will the CPS ever destroy those "samples" What if this was your DNA..?
zxcvbnm | 10:54 a.m. June 3, 2008
This little dose of reality may just rile a few folks.
The age of consent in Texas is presently 17.....every 17 year old can, just as any other adult, consent to sex....spiritual sex......or any other sex their little heart desires.
Legal marraige with parents permission or a courts permission is 16.
Once FLDS holds the JP office the court permission is a done deal.
The FLDS just wed at 16 legaly or 17 spiritually and bingo......most of the under age girls now are 16 ......just wait a year if you already have a few wives.
No muss no fuss......the law is happy.....FLDS is happy.......and The Jessop gang sells more books about perversion......everyones happy.
The Wrong Ones | 10:57 a.m. June 3, 2008
If the children are at risk, why not remove the alleged perpetrators instead of
the children?
To the wrong ones | 11:18 a.m. June 3, 2008
CPS could well have removed the alleged perpetrators and chose not to. That was
in the court documentation. There were multiple other options, but CPS chose
the most extreme worst scenario.
Anonymous | 11:25 a.m. June 3, 2008
As with all children from cultures trying so desperately to set themselves apart
they will grow up extremely confused.
Thomas | 11:33 a.m. June 3, 2008
To everyone going on and on about how polygamy is illegal and the FLDS ought to
be prosecuted for it, please realize that a third-rate lawyer could structure a
FLDS "plural marriage" transaction so as to place it beyond the reach
of the law.
Because the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Lawrence v. Texas that consenting adults have a fundamental right to engage in consensual, private sexual conduct, all the FLDS must do is make it clear that they are not holding their relationships out to the public as "marriages."
(Lawrence v. Texas declined to address the question of the extent to which the State is required to give its legal sanction to alternative sexual arrangements; however, California's Supreme Court is opening that particular can of worms.)
Under Lawrence, a State is not permitted to make it illegal for a man to sleep with as many women as he wants. The FLDS, if they want to continue their practices, need to steer entirely clear of civil registration of any of their marriages, and possibly refer in public to their unions as something other than the term "marriage."
Because the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Lawrence v. Texas that consenting adults have a fundamental right to engage in consensual, private sexual conduct, all the FLDS must do is make it clear that they are not holding their relationships out to the public as "marriages."
(Lawrence v. Texas declined to address the question of the extent to which the State is required to give its legal sanction to alternative sexual arrangements; however, California's Supreme Court is opening that particular can of worms.)
Under Lawrence, a State is not permitted to make it illegal for a man to sleep with as many women as he wants. The FLDS, if they want to continue their practices, need to steer entirely clear of civil registration of any of their marriages, and possibly refer in public to their unions as something other than the term "marriage."
DNA is good | 11:34 a.m. June 3, 2008
collection of DNA is good so that authorities can catch the FLDS men who are
forcing underage marriages onto young girls. Its time to put a stop to this sick
perversion, and wipe out the abuse once and for all. In crime cases such as
Warren Jeffs its a good idea to have DNA. That the only way they can find the
fathers someday, who are hiding out at the present time. Perhaps there are only
a few who have fathered all those kids. Time will tell.
St. George Resident | 11:39 a.m. June 3, 2008
It's business as usual for the FLDS... with a NOD, NOD, and a WINK, WINK
they will agree, then take the children away to do as they wish. The CPS did
nothing good by dealing with these people.
How can they look at the picture of Warren Jeffs molesting a young girl, then let these children go back to their parents when they know that their parents follow every example given to them by Jeffs.
These young girls will be raped.
How can they look at the picture of Warren Jeffs molesting a young girl, then let these children go back to their parents when they know that their parents follow every example given to them by Jeffs.
These young girls will be raped.
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Related content
- Mitchell called intelligent, controlling 1:19 a.m.
- Brems outlasts 2nd round of votes 1:04 a.m.
- 2 families divided over slaying 1:04 a.m.
- Teen shot in scuffle with trooper 1:03 a.m.
- Nature's Way leaving Utah County 1:03 a.m.
- 'Grandfamilies' a growing trend 12:31 a.m.
- 'Cyber Monday' sales top records 12:29 a.m.
- 2 citations issued at Y.-U. game 12:26 a.m.
- No drugs in driver of Am.F. band bus 12:15 a.m.
- Governor Mansion to begin free tours 12:14 a.m.
- Hall's pain reflects self-betrayal
- Y. student vanished in China
- Max Hall issues apology
- Utes won't respond to Hall
- Hall reprimanded by MWC
- Cougs begin bowl preparations
- Teen shot in scuffle with trooper
- Mitchell called intelligent, controlling
- Matthews passes new Jazz tests
- Daughter: Mitchell fed me my pet
- Hall mouths off about hate of Utah
898 - Cougars beat Utes in overtime481
- Max Hall issues apology379
- Hall reprimanded by MWC370
- Hall's pain reflects self-betrayal316
- Utes won't respond to Hall257
- BYU is champion of the state140
- Man trapped in Nutty Putty cave dies121
- Cave to be sealed with body inside120
- Religion in politics is tiresome110
Live 'Twittologue' Dec. 2, 4:00 p.m. with Jason Chaffetz. Click for more.
I wanted to tell them not to go. I dropped subtle hints. "My money is on...
When I was a kid, I worshipped my grandpa. He was undoubtedly my hero....
Latest comments
There are some games I love not on your list. Arkham Asylum for one.
Our parents made my brothers help kill and clean our rabbits before we ate...
Why would you keep it open? I would understand if there was a lot of amazing...
The government will run our health care well? Read Reader's Digest, November...
TCU stomped on the MWC so they are naturally ready to crush Florida, Alabama...
could you understand Dave Locke any more than my mom does and she is not even...
Attending the ND/BYU game 3 years ago in south bend, a couple of things stuck...
I missed the game, actually i heard a little bit of Locke on the radio (man...
quotes were good: Article was dumb and unnecessary.
I believe the art depicting Joseph looking at the plates may possibly be...
Advertisements
Underage marriages will continue. Violation of laws against polygamy will continue. Abandonment of teenage boys will continue, to protect the sex ratios of the colony. Welfare fraud will continue.
The language of their statement is enough to fly an A380 through. Girls will continue to be raised as child brides. They will be taken out of school at a young age, to keep them as dependent on the FLDS cult and as fearful of society as possible. They will be raised far away from normal society. They will be married off at 16, the "legal" age of marriage in most states - except that it's not a legal marriage, since their grooms are already married.
I'm beginning to think the folks of Missouri had the right idea. Our laws are a joke - they are useless against threats to our civilization.