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FLDS official: No more underage marriages; reunifications begin with the children
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zxcvbnm | 2:53 p.m. June 2, 2008
CPS math
14=26
17=27
5=31
31=450
CPS Evidence
Annonymous=credibility
Investigation=tank and troops
Imminent danger=suspect behind bars hundreds of miles away.
So now they will moniter.....what is the CPS version of moniter?
Gal50 | 2:56 p.m. June 2, 2008
It is interesting that the comments on the national news web pages are written
by people upset with the return of the children and the ones here are upset with
Texas. It seems the comments here may be written by FLDS members. Or, perhaps if
the comments here are written by Utahns, it is because they are closer to the
FLDS and others in our nation are not?
At any rate, last week, the one-size-fits-all solution left the young children yearning for their mothers and this week, there is a new one-size-fits-all solution that returns teen girls to their abusers. Hopefully, their sexual abusers have left the ranch. Hopefully, the girls will remain in the custody of their parents. Handing a child over to a sexual abuser is also abuse and the parents are also guilty of abuse. So, it seems very strange that someone who would allow a girl to be raped would retain custody. Hopefully, the girls' parents will this time refrain from handing them over to their sexual abusers. Hopefully, the girls' parents will not interrogate them as to what they told CPS or punish them for talking.
At any rate, last week, the one-size-fits-all solution left the young children yearning for their mothers and this week, there is a new one-size-fits-all solution that returns teen girls to their abusers. Hopefully, their sexual abusers have left the ranch. Hopefully, the girls will remain in the custody of their parents. Handing a child over to a sexual abuser is also abuse and the parents are also guilty of abuse. So, it seems very strange that someone who would allow a girl to be raped would retain custody. Hopefully, the girls' parents will this time refrain from handing them over to their sexual abusers. Hopefully, the girls' parents will not interrogate them as to what they told CPS or punish them for talking.
Comments continue below
next | 2:57 p.m. June 2, 2008
Will we next find that the mother of the child Natalie E. Malonis represents is
in her late 20's? I doubt everything CPS says and does at this point.
Yesterday, two more adult mothers (making for a total, to date, of four) held by Texas CPS were officially declared adults, just as they have been saying all along. The CPS lies are layered. First, CPS falsely claimed these women were minors. In fact, they were adults when taken into CPS custody. Second, CPS falsely claimed that the women had misled or not provided evidence of their true ages. In fact, they did provide evidence and CPS had it in their possession all along. FLDS 4, Texas 0.
How many lies does CPS have to tell for you to stop believing them?
Yesterday, two more adult mothers (making for a total, to date, of four) held by Texas CPS were officially declared adults, just as they have been saying all along. The CPS lies are layered. First, CPS falsely claimed these women were minors. In fact, they were adults when taken into CPS custody. Second, CPS falsely claimed that the women had misled or not provided evidence of their true ages. In fact, they did provide evidence and CPS had it in their possession all along. FLDS 4, Texas 0.
How many lies does CPS have to tell for you to stop believing them?
Re: Oh brother texas mom | 3:01 p.m. June 2, 2008
As usual the denials begin...
The guardian ad litem does not work for CPS. She is a private attorney who represents the interests of her individual client only, and is in a position to KNOW her client's actual age; no guess work needed.
What is becoming painfully clear on this blog is that the FLDS will NEVER admit to any abuse, regardless of the evidence.
If a "spiritually" married, legally documented, 12-year-old girl was being raped by Warren Jeffs on live television, the FLDS would still find some way of denying that she was actually being raped.
The guardian ad litem does not work for CPS. She is a private attorney who represents the interests of her individual client only, and is in a position to KNOW her client's actual age; no guess work needed.
What is becoming painfully clear on this blog is that the FLDS will NEVER admit to any abuse, regardless of the evidence.
If a "spiritually" married, legally documented, 12-year-old girl was being raped by Warren Jeffs on live television, the FLDS would still find some way of denying that she was actually being raped.
Hey Old GEEZER | 3:03 p.m. June 2, 2008
Clearly our morals are better than theirs. We allow 14 year old to get pregnant
in TX at the rate of one every 10 hours. The FLDS have a significantly lower
rate. Clearly we are doing it better than they are...rolls eyes. Some of our
girls are tossed out by the family when they get pregnant. The FLDS girls are
sometimes married even if that man isn't the biological father. Again,
clearly we are handling that better as well. A girl gets pregnant by the man
whose children she babysits and nothing happens to any of the parties involved.
The same thing happens to someone that is FLDS and the whole community is
punished. Yup, we are infinitely better and oh so moral. Are there victims
among the FLDS, undoubtedly but it seems that the rates are much less than our
own communities. As for "lost boys" it seems they are mostly over age
18 and some well into their 20's. At that point, if a child does not obey
family rules, he is an adult and may be shown the door. But the term
"boy" is certainly misleading.
Anonymous | 3:08 p.m. June 2, 2008
These stories are waste of good human quality time. FLDS are nothing but
degenerates!
Re: CPS math | 3:14 p.m. June 2, 2008
FLDS math
Any age = old enough for a girl to marry
Any age = not too young for a boy to be kicked out
Spiritual marriage = Illegal marriage used to avoid prosecution
Wife = mindless childbearing sheep
Husband = lord of the castle (until he falls out of favor with Warren)
Supporting your family = Bleeding the Beast
Child abuse = scientific theory that cannot be proven in the FLDS universe
Any age = old enough for a girl to marry
Any age = not too young for a boy to be kicked out
Spiritual marriage = Illegal marriage used to avoid prosecution
Wife = mindless childbearing sheep
Husband = lord of the castle (until he falls out of favor with Warren)
Supporting your family = Bleeding the Beast
Child abuse = scientific theory that cannot be proven in the FLDS universe
For crying out loud. | 3:13 p.m. June 2, 2008
For the last time people.
1) YFZ is not on welfare
2) The mothers have produced valid drivers licenses, IDs, and birth certificates. The CPS would not accept them.
3) The 31 "underage" mothers the CPS claimed were actually only 5...and they don't know if they can prosecute yet because they don't know if the fathers are old men or teenagers
4) Polygamy is illegal, yes, but technically the FLDS men are not polygamists...they have one wife and other "spiritual" wives. They are not legally married to them. The law can't prosecute them for polygamy any more than they can your neighbor for cheating on his wife.
5) So far no evidence of abuse has been produced, so quit talking like these people are guilty of it until someone is prosecuted.
It wouldn't kill anyone to do a little research.
1) YFZ is not on welfare
2) The mothers have produced valid drivers licenses, IDs, and birth certificates. The CPS would not accept them.
3) The 31 "underage" mothers the CPS claimed were actually only 5...and they don't know if they can prosecute yet because they don't know if the fathers are old men or teenagers
4) Polygamy is illegal, yes, but technically the FLDS men are not polygamists...they have one wife and other "spiritual" wives. They are not legally married to them. The law can't prosecute them for polygamy any more than they can your neighbor for cheating on his wife.
5) So far no evidence of abuse has been produced, so quit talking like these people are guilty of it until someone is prosecuted.
It wouldn't kill anyone to do a little research.
It's hard to figure... | 3:14 p.m. June 2, 2008
out just exactly what this judge is thinking. She's swinging from one
extreme to the other. My heart and prayers go out to the teenage girls who have
been raped by a select few monsters in this sect. Why this investigation
hasn't focused solely on them, is beyond me.
Hopefully, the parenting classes will help and the little children will grow up safe and free from forced marriages (i.e. rape_ at age 12).
Hopefully, the parenting classes will help and the little children will grow up safe and free from forced marriages (i.e. rape_ at age 12).
not there real mothers ... | 3:19 p.m. June 2, 2008
keep in mind here that many of these so-called mothers are NOT the biological
mothers of their assigned kids. They are "care givers" that Warren
Jeffs assigned. The intent was to pick a group of young girls for the Texas
Ranch that could be groomed and be ready to be mothers at age 15 or 16. These
kids simply NEED to be removed from this insane environment if they are to ever
have a chance at a normal, productive life. Allowing them to stay in this
dysfunctional environment isn't a solution!!
John Lambert | 3:22 p.m. June 2, 2008
What people to offense at in Judge Walther's prayer request was she was
trying to force LDS people to work as spies for the state.
I would agree that most of the comments on here are unmoderate. Maybe we need to contemplate how to appraoch the "moderation in all things" required by the word of wisdom. Be that as it may be, I think part of the problem is that people are much more likely to comment when they feel strongly about an issue.
At the same time people have very strong opinions about children, and weather you see this as a case of the crimes that people would, in the words of Jesus Christ, be better off if a mill stone were tied around their neck and they were thrown to the bottom of the ocean, or weather you see this as part of a scary government plan to take away your children and convince kindergartners that homosexuality is OK, you will be writting from your deepest feelings in responding to the issue.
I would agree that most of the comments on here are unmoderate. Maybe we need to contemplate how to appraoch the "moderation in all things" required by the word of wisdom. Be that as it may be, I think part of the problem is that people are much more likely to comment when they feel strongly about an issue.
At the same time people have very strong opinions about children, and weather you see this as a case of the crimes that people would, in the words of Jesus Christ, be better off if a mill stone were tied around their neck and they were thrown to the bottom of the ocean, or weather you see this as part of a scary government plan to take away your children and convince kindergartners that homosexuality is OK, you will be writting from your deepest feelings in responding to the issue.
John Lambert | 3:27 p.m. June 2, 2008
The accusations about a requirement among the FLDS of a third party
witnessing the consumation of the marriage are the type of baseless lies some
people spread against small religios groups.
I have heard statements aproaching that level of down-right maliciousness thrown against the LDS, and they are all false.
Whoever made that statement should be sued for slander. That was a known, maligious and intentional lie.
I have heard statements aproaching that level of down-right maliciousness thrown against the LDS, and they are all false.
Whoever made that statement should be sued for slander. That was a known, maligious and intentional lie.
LOL | 3:29 p.m. June 2, 2008
The court appointed advocates are checked by CPS. One such character was
recently found to be diddling the little girls. Of course CPS already came out
with a statement that the man's record came up clean..blah blah blah.
Billy Dan Carroll is his name. Isn't it funny that you didn't read
about that one while all this was occurring?
To Not their real mothers | 3:31 p.m. June 2, 2008
Prove they are not the biological mothers. Even CPS no longer denies such.
Oregonian | 3:33 p.m. June 2, 2008
There are some reliable sources pointing to Flora Jessop as being the person
Sheriff Doran claimed to be his 4 year "informer" inside the compound.
She clearly is connected to the anonymous phone call from "Sarah" that
started this mess and should be arrested.
John Lambert | 3:33 p.m. June 2, 2008
To Texas Mother:
You do not understand guardian ad litems. They are appointed for children who are assumed to be unable to make informed consent. They operate on the theory that they understnd what is good for the children. Thus, since they gained such great understanding of children from their psychological training, and know what is best for the child even if the child does not want that.
Thus, guardian ad litems can achieve the goals of accomplishing the best interests of the child even without talking to them. They are not lawyers for the child, but lawyers for the percieved best interest of the child even when the child herself does not realize that these actions are in their best interest.
You do not understand guardian ad litems. They are appointed for children who are assumed to be unable to make informed consent. They operate on the theory that they understnd what is good for the children. Thus, since they gained such great understanding of children from their psychological training, and know what is best for the child even if the child does not want that.
Thus, guardian ad litems can achieve the goals of accomplishing the best interests of the child even without talking to them. They are not lawyers for the child, but lawyers for the percieved best interest of the child even when the child herself does not realize that these actions are in their best interest.
Ray | 3:40 p.m. June 2, 2008
Well holy cow! Billy Dan Carroll is indeed an Austin CPS advocate, nailed and
behind bars for diddling girls as young as 2 or 3!!
"Most are between 2 and 13 years of age"
And these are the folks CPS is protecting the kids from, right? Ooops, nope, he's a CPS child advocate!
"Most are between 2 and 13 years of age"
And these are the folks CPS is protecting the kids from, right? Ooops, nope, he's a CPS child advocate!
On math | 3:41 p.m. June 2, 2008
FLDS math
Any age was said by a 9 year old with adults disagreeing with evidence as Bishops record.
Any age for a boy to be kicked out is factually incorrect since the actual fact is that many of the "lost boys" were legal adults that would not abide by the rules of parents including smoking. If your child was an adult and you detested smoking, what would you do?
Spiritual marriage used to avoid prosecution = shacking up is done through the u.s. and nobody loses their children for such unless they are FLDS
Wife - independent women that disagrees with your morals and teaches her children her morals, having as many children as she wants.
Husband - Warren is in Jail and fairly useless. How many men outside the FLDS compound shoot their wives when they want a divorce?
There was no "bleeding the beast" in TX there is not a single case of welfare use. Get over lies.
Child abuse - actually it's the CPS that didn't prove abuse in 2 courts.
Any age was said by a 9 year old with adults disagreeing with evidence as Bishops record.
Any age for a boy to be kicked out is factually incorrect since the actual fact is that many of the "lost boys" were legal adults that would not abide by the rules of parents including smoking. If your child was an adult and you detested smoking, what would you do?
Spiritual marriage used to avoid prosecution = shacking up is done through the u.s. and nobody loses their children for such unless they are FLDS
Wife - independent women that disagrees with your morals and teaches her children her morals, having as many children as she wants.
Husband - Warren is in Jail and fairly useless. How many men outside the FLDS compound shoot their wives when they want a divorce?
There was no "bleeding the beast" in TX there is not a single case of welfare use. Get over lies.
Child abuse - actually it's the CPS that didn't prove abuse in 2 courts.
ask yourselves | 3:42 p.m. June 2, 2008
If Carolyn and Flora Jessop were so reliable, why were they not asked to testify
in court?
Re: LOL | 3:42 p.m. June 2, 2008
"One such character [Warren Jeffs] was recently found to be diddling the
little girls [see recently published pictures]. Of course [the FLDS] already
came out with a statement that the man's record came up clean [he's
our prophet so all of the witnesses had to by lying]..."
exposed | 3:42 p.m. June 2, 2008
This is the type of people the FLDS children were to be protected by:Police have
seized video tapes of court-appointed advocate molesting as many as 20 children.
He is being charged with aggravated sexual assault of an 8-year-old girl under
his care earlier this month.
Billy Dan Carroll, a 53-year-old entrepreneur and founder of a court-reporting firm, filmed himself having sex with several kids between the ages of 3 and 15, the Austin American Statesman reported.
"We don't know where it is going to end up, how many victims we may end up with," Austin police Sgt. Brian Loyd said. "There could be six. There could be 20. There is no telling."
Billy Dan Carroll, a 53-year-old entrepreneur and founder of a court-reporting firm, filmed himself having sex with several kids between the ages of 3 and 15, the Austin American Statesman reported.
"We don't know where it is going to end up, how many victims we may end up with," Austin police Sgt. Brian Loyd said. "There could be six. There could be 20. There is no telling."
Billy Dan Carroll | 3:44 p.m. June 2, 2008
For those of you who are interested, Billy Dan Carroll is/was a court appointed
special advocate for young children. He has been charged and videos given as
evidence in his molestation of 2,4 6, and 8 year old girls. Even sicker than
doing it is videoing yourself doing it so you can get your jollies by watching
yourself over and over.
Now, that's a pedophile, for sure. And Texas court-appointed?
Now, that's a pedophile, for sure. And Texas court-appointed?
wow on exposed | 3:49 p.m. June 2, 2008
CPS took away all those kids because of 5 possible pregnant girls and Billy Dan
Carroll alone victimized 20 cps kids. Now I wonder how many FLDS kids that
would never have been victimized have been victimized by the likes of cps
"rescuers."
FLDS Children Can't Win | 3:50 p.m. June 2, 2008
They are surrounded by pedophiles. Their prophet. Their CPS foster parents.
Their parents.
CougarKeith | 3:51 p.m. June 2, 2008
It should have been the Perpetrating MEN who were Statutorily RAPING these poor
UNDERAGE GIRLS that should have been removed! This UNJUSTICE is being fixed
finally by a judge with EYES!
As for you who judge the FLDS Group AS A WHOLE, consider what it is like to be JUDGED DISCRIMINANTLY because of Hear-Say, or because someone doesn't HAVE THE WHOLE STORY, or know all the facts. For the MOST PART these are people who LOVE JESUS CHRIST as much or more than you do, and try to live their lives in accordance with HIS TEACHINGS as they know and understand them. GET OFF THEIR CASE! Time will catch the MOLESTORS AND "RAPISTS" of this group. We must remember these people are following who they believe to be a Prophet of God, no matter how SCREWED UP we think he may be.
Many LDS people sit here CRITICIZING when we are a "JUDGED" and "CONDEMNED" people by those not UNDERSTANDING THE DOCTRINES we follow for whatever reason. May I suggest the Golden Rule, "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF", or in other words "Do Unto Others as You would have done to you". Your thinking may become a bit different.
As for you who judge the FLDS Group AS A WHOLE, consider what it is like to be JUDGED DISCRIMINANTLY because of Hear-Say, or because someone doesn't HAVE THE WHOLE STORY, or know all the facts. For the MOST PART these are people who LOVE JESUS CHRIST as much or more than you do, and try to live their lives in accordance with HIS TEACHINGS as they know and understand them. GET OFF THEIR CASE! Time will catch the MOLESTORS AND "RAPISTS" of this group. We must remember these people are following who they believe to be a Prophet of God, no matter how SCREWED UP we think he may be.
Many LDS people sit here CRITICIZING when we are a "JUDGED" and "CONDEMNED" people by those not UNDERSTANDING THE DOCTRINES we follow for whatever reason. May I suggest the Golden Rule, "LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF", or in other words "Do Unto Others as You would have done to you". Your thinking may become a bit different.
Steve - Re: Re: Pedophilia | 3:54 p.m. June 2, 2008
I don't know where you got your "legal" defenition of pedophilia,
but it's faulty. "Pedophile" or "Pedophilia" is a
lable for a type of sexual attraction NOT an act (a lable for what's going
on inside their minds, not something they're doing).
Also, that may or may not be the legal defenition of a child (14 years or under) but it doesn't fit in with the clinical/psychiatric/etc. stance on pedophilia. As I mentioned before, "pedophile" refers to someone who is sexually attracted to ONLY pre-pubecent individuals (and most hit puberty by 12 or 13, I grant some are late and could hit your 14 year mark). This isn't an "obsession" it's a specific attraction. So if someone is attracted to a person 14/15-17 or is attracted to adults AND people under 18 they aren't a pedophile.
But you are correct about statutory rape.
Also, that may or may not be the legal defenition of a child (14 years or under) but it doesn't fit in with the clinical/psychiatric/etc. stance on pedophilia. As I mentioned before, "pedophile" refers to someone who is sexually attracted to ONLY pre-pubecent individuals (and most hit puberty by 12 or 13, I grant some are late and could hit your 14 year mark). This isn't an "obsession" it's a specific attraction. So if someone is attracted to a person 14/15-17 or is attracted to adults AND people under 18 they aren't a pedophile.
But you are correct about statutory rape.
RE flds children | 3:55 p.m. June 2, 2008
CPS never suggested that parents were sexually molesting their children. Why
would you toss in a completely libelous statement?
HD | 3:58 p.m. June 2, 2008
Can anyone tell me where this religious concept of polygamy started from? I have
read the Bible and know which prophets had multiple wives. I took a look at both
the FLDS and the LDS web sites and read their basic beliefs. It looks to me that
the FLDS believe the same things as do the LDS. The only difference appears to
be in the line of prophets. Although the LDS claim that they do not practice
polygamy, I cannot find any proof that they do not believe in the doctrine of
plural marriage. It appears that they do. Can anyone clarify this for me?
Steve - Re: John 1:51 pm | 4:00 p.m. June 2, 2008
Are you saying every girl in the world who gets pregnant under the age of 18 is
an abuse victim? I'd dare say many teen mothers out there would disagree
with you as the father is the same age as them and it was consentual.
That's one way some of these FLDS girls might be getting pregnant, by
another teen near their age... note I said some and not all (other fathers were
probably adult men).
As for having kids with their relatives, you're assuming that each of them had relations with a brother/father/cousin/uncle. The father could very well be non-blood related.
As for having kids with their relatives, you're assuming that each of them had relations with a brother/father/cousin/uncle. The father could very well be non-blood related.
eve | 4:02 p.m. June 2, 2008
Wow... this just makes me want to go out there and start a "religion"
so that I can take pleasure in actions that are otherwise illegal and not go to
jail! Ahhh... America!
A Setup | 4:03 p.m. June 2, 2008
The reason the judge Walthers wanted the LDS church to monitor FLDS in Texas,
was no doubt just another setup to blacken the LDS church. Anyone can see
through what Judge Walthers was up too. However, most LDS with brains know
better, and know enough, to stay clear of FLDS. The LDS church does not condone
what the FLDS apostates do in their lives in any way shape of form. FLDS are an
abomination in the sight of God.
Note | 4:07 p.m. June 2, 2008
Did anyone note where the little girl was held prisoner? Baptist
Children's Home Ministries Youth Camp
realitycheck | 4:15 p.m. June 2, 2008
I feel bad for the teenagers that have to go back. You know they like it better
on the outside (who wouldn't?) but it looks like they will go back to their
6th grade educational limits and daily flowerpot watering.
I guess IPODs, rock'n'roll, waterskiiing, and the mall are out but sex with their cousin or uncle, and taking care of 50 babies, is in. Must suck to be an FLDS teenager.
Oh well - so much for freedom.
I guess IPODs, rock'n'roll, waterskiiing, and the mall are out but sex with their cousin or uncle, and taking care of 50 babies, is in. Must suck to be an FLDS teenager.
Oh well - so much for freedom.
a very sad day for the kids | 4:26 p.m. June 2, 2008
Giving these kids back to these screwed up adults in this "cult" type
environment is a very very sad day for the kids and their futures. These kids
could have been put up for adoption and had a real chance for normal life in a
loving normal family environment....but not now. The rights of the adults might
have been preserved but the futures of all these innocent kids was flushed right
down the toilet in the process.
Warped thinking | 4:28 p.m. June 2, 2008
To the men posting who favor polygamy. You realize this is a 100% man made
revelation? Women would never choose to live in such a vile manner unless they
were brainwashed into believing this perversion came from God. So why would God
choose to make women suffer miserably for all eternity for yourself made
revelation, and for yourself gratifications? Why don't you fellows out
there get over yourselves? Next thing you boys will be doing will be to switch
around your wives like the FLDS do. I descend down through 13 polygamists. So I
know very well that it wasn't all hunky-dory, and any kind of fantasy world
for woman. Actually the reversal. I know what I am talking about.
Stop kicking young boys out | 4:39 p.m. June 2, 2008
I'm so glad the children are back with their families. However the FLDS
culture needs restructuring and maybe Texas will do it for them.
These people are kicking out their young males to make room for polygamy. I hope Texas puts a stop to this.
Overall this whole incident can be a blessing.
These people are kicking out their young males to make room for polygamy. I hope Texas puts a stop to this.
Overall this whole incident can be a blessing.
where do I sign up? | 4:38 p.m. June 2, 2008
wow - I used to have to go to Thailand to get some young stuff. Women and
children obey my every command, little girls drop trow at a moments notice,
there's no oversight and we men can do pretty much anything we want
(who's gonna complain?) And strong-arm prison guard Willie Jessop can
clean up after me - I'll throw him a young 8 yr old boy - Warren tells me
he likes that (said it was another revelation)...
Where do I sign up?
Where do I sign up?
re - Note 4:07pm | 4:46 p.m. June 2, 2008
actually, you appear to be confused.
The children were held in the prison YFZ Ranch.
The allied troops freed them, but the UN took exception and told the allied troops to return the children to the prisn, overseen by warden Willie Jessop.
Hopefully that clears it up for you.....
The children were held in the prison YFZ Ranch.
The allied troops freed them, but the UN took exception and told the allied troops to return the children to the prisn, overseen by warden Willie Jessop.
Hopefully that clears it up for you.....
betty | 4:48 p.m. June 2, 2008
Picture of beautiful blond 9 year old girl hugging her mother made me cry. that
mother will hand her over to any old man she is told to as soon as she is old
enough to become a brood mare for him. whether "WIFE" number 10 or 20
will not matter to the mother, she had to endure the life so her daughter will
have to as well. so sad.
Anonymous | 4:51 p.m. June 2, 2008
All this will do is increase the welfare fraud rate in Texas.
Judy | 4:51 p.m. June 2, 2008
Many posters on this site seem not to understand the fundamentals. The Supreme
Court did not terminate the investigation--it said that the kids who were male
or prepubescent were not in immediate danger and so should not be removed.
Note that one adolescent female is asking not to return.
No one was found guilty or innocent. The same investigate continues but with the kids at home. Child abuse investigations are very difficult and often families are followed and supervised for months or years. There haven't been arrests because the investigation is ongoing. This isn't a TV crime show with convictions in 30 minutes.
No one was found guilty or innocent. The same investigate continues but with the kids at home. Child abuse investigations are very difficult and often families are followed and supervised for months or years. There haven't been arrests because the investigation is ongoing. This isn't a TV crime show with convictions in 30 minutes.
transplant | 4:54 p.m. June 2, 2008
to warped thinking: "women would never choose....unless brainwashed into
believing....
------------------------
Men could not brainwash women if women didn't show up for it. As an adult women product of brainwashing roman catholic upbringing I do not believe anything. These women and women all over this country are not willing to give up their brainwashing and take responsibility for their own lives. Men can make up any kind of religious beliefs and try to convince women to participate but they can't force them to believe anything. Women give away their power to patriarchial religions each and every day of the year in this country. Sadly. You can't make it about the men. These women have choices. That's where adults in our free society power resides. What kind of role model have we provided for these women? They can see women on the 'outside' following men into all kinds of churches when they have choices as well. It used to be about men having legal control over women. Not any more. You have to place the responsibility where it lies. With the women themselves.
------------------------
Men could not brainwash women if women didn't show up for it. As an adult women product of brainwashing roman catholic upbringing I do not believe anything. These women and women all over this country are not willing to give up their brainwashing and take responsibility for their own lives. Men can make up any kind of religious beliefs and try to convince women to participate but they can't force them to believe anything. Women give away their power to patriarchial religions each and every day of the year in this country. Sadly. You can't make it about the men. These women have choices. That's where adults in our free society power resides. What kind of role model have we provided for these women? They can see women on the 'outside' following men into all kinds of churches when they have choices as well. It used to be about men having legal control over women. Not any more. You have to place the responsibility where it lies. With the women themselves.
Read the Book | 5:07 p.m. June 2, 2008
I just finished the book Stolen Innocence by Elissa Wall and was heartbroken. I
don't think ANY of these children should have been release until DNA was
taken on EVERYONE. Families are reasigned to "new" fathers so when you
ask a child who their father is they are going to tell you who it is
"now" b/c if they confess who their biological father is they will be
sent to hell. This is what they believe. They are so brain-washed you can't
even get the truth of any of them. Let the criminal labs figure it out. Most of
them who want to leave are afraid to b/c they don't know how to live
outside that world. They are also made to believe everyone that is not FDLS is
evil........keep sweet is all they know and most will not go against what they
have be brainwashed to believe. Why in the book were so many trying to "get
out" but were afraid to. The book says they even have the right to put
their members to death if that is what they believe the punishment is. I pray
for them every day. Read the book....
gary | 5:12 p.m. June 2, 2008
To transplant: you really are blaming the women?
Well, at least you made me laugh today.
As a man, it is all about testosterone, power, and we are in charge.
Oh, to blame the women?
There I go, laughing again. thanks
Well, at least you made me laugh today.
As a man, it is all about testosterone, power, and we are in charge.
Oh, to blame the women?
There I go, laughing again. thanks
Hey Betty | 5:17 p.m. June 2, 2008
There was no evidence for the gossip you believe as fact with two court
affirming such. "Lost boys" seem to made mostly of adult men. Welfare
fraud didn't take place in TX by the FLDS. Nobody is asking not to be
returned but a guardian ad litem is attempting not to follow the law and return
a CPS victim and her child. While the Supreme Court did not terminate the
investigation, they did determine that there was No evidence in the 40+ days
that CPS had. The baptists had their attempt by commandeering FLDS kids into
the Baptist Children's Home Ministries Youth Camp.And the fact remains that
every 10 hours a 14 year old gets pregnant in TX. Again, CPS investigated for
"lost boys". It just isn't fact even if you repeat it often.
All religions are equally stupid.
All religions are equally stupid.
Adam | 5:18 p.m. June 2, 2008
To Transplant=malarkey! Unless you have lived in a polygamist lifestyle, YOU DO
NOT KNOW whatsoever whatever it is you are talking about. Go spout off about
stupidly ... DUH!
On Elissa Wall | 5:20 p.m. June 2, 2008
If Elissa, Flora, and Carolyn were so reliable why did CPS not ask them to
testify? You bought a book and got a story. The actual alleged rapist,
Elissa's "husband" was only charged AFTER Warren was convicted.
There has still not been a trial. Yet, none of you find that odd. Clearly the
laws of the land aren't important to Americans any longer. Less than 50%
vote on the mainland and you find over 80% vote in Puerto Rico.
Who's the father? | 5:29 p.m. June 2, 2008
Sadly, terribly sadly, there are many children in America today who have no idea
who their father is. Mother has multiple husbands, boyfriends, etc. Just about
every day, somewhere in America, you read of a baby being beaten to death by a
boyfriend or step-father--less frequently by the actual father of the baby,
although that seems to be happening more and more often.
My son and his wife nearly adopted a baby in the midwest--mother was 16 and it was her second baby. SHE didn't even know the last name of the father. She decided to keep the baby, along with the earlier baby she had at 15. CPS wasn't concerned at all, and, yes, she is on welfare.
Abuse will happen until hearts are changed! Free love isn't free!
My son and his wife nearly adopted a baby in the midwest--mother was 16 and it was her second baby. SHE didn't even know the last name of the father. She decided to keep the baby, along with the earlier baby she had at 15. CPS wasn't concerned at all, and, yes, she is on welfare.
Abuse will happen until hearts are changed! Free love isn't free!
Know it all | 5:30 p.m. June 2, 2008
RE: TRANSPLANT
You are a know it all who completely knows NOTHING! Get a life!
You are a know it all who completely knows NOTHING! Get a life!
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Eric Gay, Associated Press
Nancy Dockstader, left, a member of the FLDS Church, embraces her daughter Amy, 9, after they were reunited at the Baptist Children's Home Ministries Youth Camp near Lulling, Texas, Monday.
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Also does anybody else find it a little bit funny that a lot of posters here are concerned about the sex lives of the FLDS and in the middle of this page is an ad for �Sex in the City�?