Deseret News | Lawyers meet behind closed doors in FLDS case

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Lawyers meet behind closed doors in FLDS case

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my advice | 2:45 p.m. June 1, 2008

Go strait to the appeals court. Don;t pass go don't correct 200 dollars. CPS and Walther are as dishonest as they come.

Phil | 2:53 p.m. June 1, 2008

Good comment made previously about a federal law that says using the color law to deny civil rights is a criminal and should get Judge Walther 464 counts on this law.

COSMO | 3:09 p.m. June 1, 2008

How can a Judge, be so flippant as to the status of over 400 children and their families?
I see that she got to go home during the weekend,but
a large number of innocent children were condemed to
legal limbo.
Should she not be removed from office? If she is so careless about such a delicate issue, can she be trusted with other judgements? Seems like she is the
Judge,Jury, and Executioner all in one, and answers to no higher authority, than herself.

Comments continue below

I agree | 3:12 p.m. June 1, 2008

Walther didn't set up another hearing; there's no point going to her and begging for one. Go to the appeals court with the proposal.

Anonymous | 3:14 p.m. June 1, 2008

The judge is punishing the lawyers and the mothers for going to the Appeals court over her head. She is mad and it matters not to her who she hurats.

willy steel | 3:15 p.m. June 1, 2008

Abruptly left the bench refusing to sign the order? What kind of judge is this? Contempt of court! contempt of court! Go get her with SWAT team and imprison her until she complies. If its good for the FLDS it's good enough for the judge. This case has shown a high degree of incompetency from beginning until now and is an embarrassment for Texas. Stop dragging your heels Texas. You illegally picked them up, so you get those buses back and send all of those kids home, NOW!

Anonymous | 3:15 p.m. June 1, 2008

Sorry I spelled the hurts wrong. It matter not to her who she hurts!!

Writ | 3:23 p.m. June 1, 2008

The Supreme Court did NOT allow Walther to impose conditions on vacating her earlier order. They provided her with some helpful hints on what options she has under state code--independent of the mandamus.

These helpful hints were given in response to the complaints of secondary harm made by the CPS in their appeal to the supreme court. The supreme court was telling them that the mandamus issued did not harm the CPS in that manner.

Nemo | 3:31 p.m. June 1, 2008

Can't return the children without knowing who the parents are... and until the birth parents come forth this case will remain in limbo.

Parents that choose to take their orders from a perverted leader that molests young girls and assigns and swaps families around like chess pieces should not be raising these children.

re: Nemo | 3:38 p.m. June 1, 2008

The flds were not the ones deceiving here. They were forthright about their children. The CPS were the ones lying all along.

Lilina | 3:43 p.m. June 1, 2008

Nemo, the JUDGE and CPS KNOW who the parents are. How do you think they figured out who could visit which kids? They are also aware of what kids belong to what parents as evidenced by the Parenting Orders she required them to sign. Do not fall for the "the State does not know which kids belong to whom" garbage.

re: Nemo | 3:49 p.m. June 1, 2008

You're right - "can't return the children without knowing who the parents are." And as long as you keep your fingers in your ears, and your eyes closed, and keep yelling "I can't hear you, I can't hear you!", you'll keep not knowing.

Drive the bus up to the gate and let the kids out. The problem will take care of itself.

tika | 3:57 p.m. June 1, 2008

Could it be that CPS is waiting for the dna results? and try to come up with more accusiations..

Investigating a hoax? | 3:57 p.m. June 1, 2008

"Texas authorities are still investigating whether the original call was a hoax."

----------

Why this silly line, over and over? They knew it was a hoax from day one. The article should read that Texas authorities are still trying to cover up the conspiracy, for which Rozita was a patsy.

Interloper | 4:12 p.m. June 1, 2008

The problem is actually the FLDS alleged parents. They are refusing to agree to the final order Judge Walther offered. Their attorneys are claiming they can impose an order on the judge instead of the other way around. Judge Walther has responded that the Supreme Court of Texas explicitly said she can impose reasonable conditions on returning the children during an ongoing child abuse investigation. She, rightly, refuses to release the children without restrictions such as keeping them in Texas being agreed to.

I am not sure all alleged parents have refused to sign the final order. I would hope not all the lawyers are going along with an ill-fated effort to bully the judge. Time will tell.

I urge reasonable people to read articles in better papers than Utah's. If you had read the New York Times article about Friday's hearing, you would not be under the impression Judge Walther left the court without explaining why she amended the order and her auhority to do so.

Jim | 4:21 p.m. June 1, 2008

I have read both rulings and as of coarse Interloper is wrong. The Appeals court ruling was upheld and that ruling says to vacate the order to seize the children and adults. i.e. return them

bilbo | 4:22 p.m. June 1, 2008

Texas:...can you spell BANKRUPTCY?

Cast Out | 4:25 p.m. June 1, 2008

It is a sad commentary on most of the nation. Such corrupt power-mad officials did not spring up overnight and, it will only get worse unless we do whatever it takes to return to sanity. The greatest threat we as a people face today is not a foreign power or terrorists; it is a fifth column of self proclaimed demigods.
Just as it did not get this bad overnight; it canï¿½t be fixed overnight. I will not see the end of this struggle but, what remains of my life will be used to fight for the next generation.

AG | 4:31 p.m. June 1, 2008

Interloper, Judge Walther's revised order is anything but reasonable. Allowing CPS to take children for questioning or medical exams off the ranch at any time of day or night while the "investigation" continues, the end date of which removed by Walther?
That's basically forcing the parents to sign away their fourth amendment rights.

Anonymous | 5:04 p.m. June 1, 2008

CPS is stalling because they may have lost some kids. If not, why were they at the gates of the ranch demanding to go in and look for 5 kids from 5 to 15 the day before the appeals court ruling? They haven't known how many kids they had from the beginning and they have changed ages themselves all along by eyeballing.

obsessor | 5:15 p.m. June 1, 2008

Good for the lawyers for finally working to get this resolved. I don't blame the judge for walking out. The parents can't have their cake and eat it too. They need to be responsible and prove they know how to keep sex offenders away from their kids.

The parents are supposedly getting a photo taken when they come to get their kids so that there is aways a face to go with a name in this mess.

betty | 5:22 p.m. June 1, 2008

the statements of all the polygamists making lots of money off the state of texas is a silly joke. even if they got to court no texas jury would give these child molesters more than one dollar. sure the men do the deed, but these mothers happily hand over their young girls to them. they are equally guilty.

Sysint | 5:31 p.m. June 1, 2008

Blather needs to abide by the Supreme Court and send the kids home. END of Story. She blew it big time. I wouldn't agree to anything except for what the time the bus shows up.

Actually, she shouldn't get an opportunity to correct her egregious indiscretions. She should be replaced and subsequently removed as incompetent.

Are the FLDS parents ready to sue?

Stop the Real Abuse in Texas | 5:38 p.m. June 1, 2008

Tell me where the state's interests are being compromised. Prosecute the men who fathered children from girls 15 or less, and let the others return to the ranch where the children were loved, educated, and had extended family relationships.

If the state really wants to stop child abuse, the CPS should concentrate on inner-city Dallas or Houston girls who conceived at age 15 or less. Jail the twenty-something men who impregnated them and attach their wages so the welfare queens can be self-supporting (like the FLDS). Then prosecute the Planned Parenthood offices which refuse to identify the adult fathers who impregnate girls 15 or less. Those offices should be closed down.

Charlesh | 5:58 p.m. June 1, 2008

When Judges like Walther RECEIVE MONEY FROM THE CPS DIRECTLY in exchange for visiting a 'conference' then there is an ETHICS VIOLATION.

Has our judicial system gotten so corrupt as to not go after Walthers and her Good Ole Boy network?

Ray | 6:03 p.m. June 1, 2008

I sure do not want to see anything 'closer to her version' !!!

No conditions, RETURN THE KIDS!!

Emma in Illinois | 6:48 p.m. June 1, 2008

What a tragic mess that this whole ordeal even happened like this. These children have suffered a lot now. All of America is watching this, and it is an absolute mess. Shame on that Judge, she does not really care about these children. She, after her abrupt ending in Court Friday, made it very clear she is being a poor loser about the two higher courts rulings. It's so horribly sad to see these mothers, who are not even used to the way things work on the outside of that ranch, run around, in anguish, trying to get THEIR children back. I can almost promise to you, that in any neighborhood, you will find probably five children that have been abused. All the children that I have seen from the ranch through photos looked like very healthy, well taken care of children. I'm quite sure that NOW, thanks to gun-pointing Texas Rangers, a brutal raid, CPS, being taken away from everything they ever knew, will undoubtably leave them with nightmares. Yes, and this Judge did hold them captive, even after the Supreme court ruling. They know who the children's mother's are...they visit them. Send the children home!

Judge dredd | 6:54 p.m. June 1, 2008

Ya never know what goes on behind closed doors...whoaaaa!

Bill | 7:02 p.m. June 1, 2008

This is revenge on the part of Barbara Walthers. Everyone knows how CPS works, everywhere. Everyone keep a good eye on your kids. Cause, folks, now we know CPS can come and grab em up, whenever they feel like it - because the guy next door molested his stepdaughter. Was every one of these people hurting their kids? Why were they all hauled off at gunpoint? LAWSUIT!!!!!!!

American | 7:06 p.m. June 1, 2008

Vacate .. does not mean place conditions or require agreements.

Coercion ?

Disgusted | 7:35 p.m. June 1, 2008

I do not believe that Judge Walther is dishonest,just because you don't agree with what happens doesn't mean that everyone else is dishonest and wrong but you.I assure you all that that Judge is one smart lady and does know the law and calling her dishonest is wrong. Remember this is about the children not wheather you like the Judge or not.

The Truth | 7:52 p.m. June 1, 2008

the bottom line :
If you support FLDS, you support child rape and child molestation.

If Warren Jeffs (the prophet) is seen in photos married to 12 year old girls then his followers must believe child rape is acceptable. Child rape is not acceptable.

wyogirl | 7:53 p.m. June 1, 2008

I am not a lawyer, but I've read in several credible sources that Judge Walthers was given the right to set conditions. I don't blame her for wanting to. The FLDS are really good at skirting the law (polygamy) and their leader was on the FBI's most wanted list and was aided on the run by his faithful followers. She also needs to cover her behind in case these parents DO run, or hide their children etc. She will want to be able to say "I told you so." She is trying to protect children from abuse and she seems pretty determined to do that - we could only wish that the FLDS parents were as determined to keep those same children away from sexual preditors.

Emma: You think at least 5 children in every neighborhood have been raped? Really? You must live in a pretty bad neighborhood.

When you were looking at all the photos of the happy children did you notice the picture of the child molestor Warren Jeffs on every wall? How about the picture of him kissing a 13 year old? He isn't just some guy in their neighborhood, he is their LEADER

Mary-Jane | 8:02 p.m. June 1, 2008

I hope this may shed some light on the situation that these people are facing. I too, was a very young mother.I am not a perfect mother, but my children love me, and I would do anything for them. I choose, no welfare, but, took on a full-time job at a factory. At this time I was the mother of a 4 year old son, and a two year old daughter, pregnant with my third daughter. I tried to be a good mother, daycare was hard, but, I always made sure my children were healthy and happy. After my so called friend called CPS on me, we were arguing. I found, I had no rights, they showed up at my house anytime they wanted, for about a week. No wrongs were found, but they claimed they had to be sure. They showed up early morning,suffering morning sickness, late night.It was so frightening, I lived in fear. I remember one time in particular, a man from CPS came. He wanted a form, it was out in the car, I said i'll go get it. He said you are a bad mother, you'de leave your baby with a stranger. Meaning, CPS

Re: Malfeasance | 8:10 p.m. June 1, 2008

Go sign the petition to get Judge Walther. Removed from the bench. Google gopetition Walther.

BoPeep | 8:13 p.m. June 1, 2008

If there are any child molesters at the ranch, they'll probably walk due to the incompetence of Walther and CPS.

Walther is as dishonest as they come - the worst kind of dishonesty - the intellectual kind.

Her career will be defined by this case and it ain't lookin' to good for her honor rt now.

She's still trying to hold her hearings in masse. I believe the Appellate Court had a problem with that.

Must be l-a-z-y.

John | 8:17 p.m. June 1, 2008

IF as the CPS alleges, the "Ranch" operates as one big communal family, then they should be happy to just "drive the busses to the gates and let the kids out". Why would the CPS object to this? Its all one big happy family right CPS?
As to Walther, she's a dupe for the CPS and her integrity is compromised by the brainwashing of the CPS. She'll face some legal consequences for her unconstitutional take on law. Nifong did far less and look where it got him.

Re:disgusted | 8:17 p.m. June 1, 2008

She is smart, not, she just got an order to reverse. Legal Aid lawyer is right, the appeals court ruling was upheld. Bitter and dishonest yes.

From Texas | 8:18 p.m. June 1, 2008

The children would have a better chance in foster homes. The State of Texas should remove children from any mother that would agree to let their biological children be removed and relocated to another so called family or married to whomever the head of the FLDS choses. This Polysickamous world is very detrimental to children and I hope the mothers can maybe see what God really wants for them. All Christian people should pray for the enlightenment of the mothers to stand up and be free. All they need to do is want freedom and the State of Texas will give it to them.

Pam | 8:20 p.m. June 1, 2008

I can't believe the number of people posting here that are supporting the FLDS. I can tell you all are not from New Jersey. We would not stand for religious sanctioned child molestation. Have none of you seen the photos of Jeffs making out with little girls? Judge Walther has to impose these conditions to make sure girls are not continued to be married off systematically and that young teenage boys are not cast aside. Some questions I'd like all you supporters to answer...How does one man support multiple wives and dozens of children? How does he give them loving fatherly attention?

Plains Talk | 8:30 p.m. June 1, 2008

We need to establish and maintain that somewhere, there is a line, ideally before child rape, that one cannot cross in the name of religion. Period. If we can't, watch for my holy beer machines coming soon to a street corner near you.
These are religous people. I don't care. What they're doing is wrong.
Shut 'em down.

Stan | 8:37 p.m. June 1, 2008

If Judge Walther is so smart and knew the law then how come her actions were overthrown by a Texas appelate court and the Texas Supreme Court? Well?

This is propaganda | 8:48 p.m. June 1, 2008

This judge has really fooled many. All the information about 50 year old men marrying young teen girls, the caller who is abused and pregnant, rapes in the temple on beds...the list goes on and on and on. Don't believe what you hear because these are the same old lies that have been circulating about many religious groups that aren't the normal protestant denominations. Texas is very Baptist, very prejudiced, very! I live here. I know. Has anyone looked at the pictures the media has taken of the families. I'm sorry but I failed to see the 12 year old brides. I have seen women, children and many of these women had husbands and they looked about the same age. I wish the public would stop listening to the news and especially to CPS and Judge Walthers. They all should work for the "STAR" or "THE ENQUIRER". Isn't that the kind of stuff they've been feeding us??

one husband,one wife | 9:35 p.m. June 1, 2008

Religiously sanctioned child molestation is still child molestation, and Warren Jeffs has told his 'followers' he's not a prophet. It's not a normal upbringing-there are no real childrens books for the children. It's more like basic training. If it oinks like a pig...It's time to pray for the return to the one true church, led by God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, to lead this country back to the narrow moral road we should be on. When we look to other humans to fulfill for us what Christ himself did for us on the cross,we become lost. Look again to Him. Pray for those children that have been abused, and those that have been turned away. Pray that all return to Him, as He so desperately, passionately, wants us to.

Anonymous | 9:49 p.m. June 1, 2008

Judge Walther should be impeached...immediately. She is unfit to sit on the bench, defies the constitution, the laws of the state of Texas, and higher court orders. What part of "you messed up" does she not understand?

Re: Pam | 10:00 p.m. June 1, 2008

Pam,

You have plenty of polygamous people in New Jersey. NPR did a story the other day on polygamous Muslims. If I recall, New Jersey has quite a few.

Why not look in your own backyard?

Bill M | 10:09 p.m. June 1, 2008

At last, the whole country can see the blatant disregard CPS agencies and "family" court judges have, not only for the U.S. Constitution, but for the very social service laws that supposedly govern their conduct. The "immediate danger" standard is routinely ignored in most or all states by these despicable people. They truly believe they are above all laws, in the name of "protecting children". And they are not afraid of using Gestapo tactics to achieve their questionable goals.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Thank you, TX Supreme Court justices, for putting these apparatchniks in their proper place. Judge Walther? She STILL doesn't get it. She was ordered to return the children. Not to delay and make up her own NEW rules even after being told by the Supreme Court what the rule was in the first place. "YOU HAD NO RIGHT, JUDGE, TO TAKE THE CHILDREN". So how does she now have any right to set "conditions" for correcting her own wrong? Yes, it is vividly on display for all to see how this system works and how it thinks it is above ALL laws.

Power | 10:18 p.m. June 1, 2008

If the power judges and cps have doesn't scare you; you really need to think again. Innocent until proven guilty, I think not, how much money was spent to return the kids, how much time, and now we have a judge walking out. Jail her and jail her right now. You and I could never walk out of court and go home for the weekend just because we don't like what is going on. This is a clear example of how States can flex their great power with no obvious consequences. I wonder if one single person will lose his or her job over this blunder. America has lost its checks and balances.

mike | 10:19 p.m. June 1, 2008

Thank God the majority of the Supreme Court had common sense and the decency to uphold the constitutional rights of these people.
In the early days after the raid. This "Nut Job" radical Judge denied every motion from every attorney that was presented to the court. The Judge should recuse herself from this case permanently, she is clearly predjudiced in this case.
Using this case as a template. Authorities could enter a subdivision in any city in this country and detain all the people who live within it and remove their children simply based on a false allegation.
Months after 911 police in our city were dressed in full combat gear and one morning around 1030am while on my way to Walmart just 2 blocks from my house I watched these police throw up barricades and begin stopping vehicles and asking for identification papers from occupants of every car. I couldn't get out of the subdivision without going through one of these check points.
What bothered me was that every officer/soldier was packing an automatic rifle. I'm retired military and just the thought of that happening in the usa pissed me right off. Thank God something is being done.

Interloper | 11:18 p.m. June 1, 2008

The only way the FLDS will get the children back without conditions is if Texas decides, like Arizona and Utah, that the FLDS are too devious a bunch to get further entangled with. That would be a victory for Warren Jeffs and the rest of the FLDS patriarchs. It would be a terrible defeat for the children, who will continue to be abused without intervention from people outside of the FLDS. I hope Texas stands its ground.

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August Miller, Deseret News

Jimmy Stewart, a lawyer representing two FLDS mothers, talks to the media after leaving a closed door meeting in San Angelo, Texas, today, to discuss how to return children taken from the FLDS YFZ Ranch.