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Texas judge refuses to sign order to return FLDS children
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Funny | 4:26 p.m. May 31, 2008
Isn't it odd that so little is being written about the CPS approved
guardian at litem that was arrested for molesting little girls?
Musing in Missouri | 4:32 p.m. May 31, 2008
Unbelievable!!!! All the stipulations and (I believe) "personal red
tape". Walther is supposed to "uphold" the law.. it's a
wonder the state does not hold her in contempt!! Unreal!
Comments continue below
wrong Alex | 4:34 p.m. May 31, 2008
The ACLU is there to prevent "slippery slope" issues. They also allow
minority opinions to be heard over the drones that rule the majority. The mob
mentality, FYI, isn't always correct.
Reality Check | 4:52 p.m. May 31, 2008
Many folks, who are making multiple posts in this forum under every changing
false names,
are claiming that Judge W. can not do anything EXCEPT vacate the CPS CUSTODY ORDER and turn the children back.
When anyone posts the TRUTH and provides the list of the conditions the Supreme Court of Texas says Judge W. can add. Quoting the exact words from the Supreme Court Decision.
These false name posters attack under another false name and claim, falsely, that anyone correcting them is suggesting Judge W. is able to make up here own laws.
The Supreme Court said what it said.
Anyone claiming Judge W. CAN NOT legally order restrictions to the parents before, during, and after releasing the children are simply making BOLD FACE FALSE STATEMENTS.
See opinion on the Texas Supreme Court home page to read this brief opinion for yourself. Scroll down and click on:
Decision in YFZ Child-Custody Case
There you will find what the TEXAS SUPREME COURT officialy said - it was intended so even the main stream media could understand - so it uses plain words.
Of course it was still to complicated for the media - but easy for normal folks :)
are claiming that Judge W. can not do anything EXCEPT vacate the CPS CUSTODY ORDER and turn the children back.
When anyone posts the TRUTH and provides the list of the conditions the Supreme Court of Texas says Judge W. can add. Quoting the exact words from the Supreme Court Decision.
These false name posters attack under another false name and claim, falsely, that anyone correcting them is suggesting Judge W. is able to make up here own laws.
The Supreme Court said what it said.
Anyone claiming Judge W. CAN NOT legally order restrictions to the parents before, during, and after releasing the children are simply making BOLD FACE FALSE STATEMENTS.
See opinion on the Texas Supreme Court home page to read this brief opinion for yourself. Scroll down and click on:
Decision in YFZ Child-Custody Case
There you will find what the TEXAS SUPREME COURT officialy said - it was intended so even the main stream media could understand - so it uses plain words.
Of course it was still to complicated for the media - but easy for normal folks :)
Alex | 5:02 p.m. May 31, 2008
To "wrong Alex":
"The ACLU is there to prevent "slippery slope" issues. They also allow minority opinions to be heard over the drones that rule the majority. The mob mentality, FYI, isn't always correct. "
If only they actually did that. Sure, they'll help those who advance their left wing agenda. That's about it. In any case, we don't need them. There are other legal defense funds that are much more relevant. We don't need their approval to be "allowed" to have our minority opinions heard.
"The ACLU is there to prevent "slippery slope" issues. They also allow minority opinions to be heard over the drones that rule the majority. The mob mentality, FYI, isn't always correct. "
If only they actually did that. Sure, they'll help those who advance their left wing agenda. That's about it. In any case, we don't need them. There are other legal defense funds that are much more relevant. We don't need their approval to be "allowed" to have our minority opinions heard.
Interested | 5:02 p.m. May 31, 2008
Does anyone have a picture of Judge Walther smiling? All we ever see in the
media is the one where she is wearing dark glasses and looking grumpy.
Sabrina | 5:03 p.m. May 31, 2008
betty | 12:55 p.m. May 31, 2008 -said "the judge is allowed, by the state
supreme court, to have conditions to the return of the children. her conditions
are reasonable."
Reasonable? To allow someone to come into your home at 2:00am, drag you out of bed, haul your children off and question them? Reasonable - to have your children living in daily fear they will be taken away again at any given moment?
Reasonable? To allow someone to come into your home at 2:00am, drag you out of bed, haul your children off and question them? Reasonable - to have your children living in daily fear they will be taken away again at any given moment?
FALLACY-HUNTER | 5:16 p.m. May 31, 2008
==
ATTORNEYS FOR THE MOTHERS WILL PREVAIL, AND
ATTORNEYS FOR THE CHILDREN WILL PREVAIL.
=
ATTORNEYS FOR THE MOTHERS WILL PREVAIL, AND
ATTORNEYS FOR THE CHILDREN WILL PREVAIL.
=
Re: Reality Check | 5:18 p.m. May 31, 2008
"Anyone claiming Judge W. CAN NOT legally order restrictions to the parents
before, during, and after releasing the children are simply making BOLD FACE
FALSE STATEMENTS."
Absolutely right. The file is open. CPS has to close that file. Very scarey situation for little children and their moms.
Absolutely right. The file is open. CPS has to close that file. Very scarey situation for little children and their moms.
Polygamy vs. abuse | 5:24 p.m. May 31, 2008
Texas authorities need to start prosecuting for polygamy; then the kids can be
kept safe from the alleged criminals until the polygamy cases are finished. Any
polygamist found to have had sex with underage girls should be placed on the sex
offenders list and kept away from children. Mothers involved in polygamy should
have to sign statements agreeing to stop cohabitating or lose custody of their
kids. The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that a federal ban on polygamy
is enforceable and valid. Once Texas authorities start prosecuting polygamists,
they'll all move to Utah, Colorado or Arizona or Mexico, where they feel
safe because of the lack of enforcement there.
Emma from Illinois | 5:33 p.m. May 31, 2008
Clearly, this judge is being a poor loser. She is trying everything she can to
further complicate this mess, caused by her in the first place. Mabey, she does
not like the fact that the two higher Courts ruling was kind of like a slap in
the face to her. Enough has been done to these poor mothers running back and
forth trying to get their children. The Courts have ruled that the decision went
way too far. Look at the emotional damage created to these children. All of them
are in danger of severe mental damage because of her, the brutality of CPS, and
State Officials in the first place. Is the best interest of the children really
important to her? It does not seem that way. It seems more like a woman scorned.
Now, because of her, women and children must wait the whole weekend, after being
held against their will. This is horrible! The only GOOD that I see out of this
situation is that hopefully, parents will think twice before sending their 13
year old child to be married. The children looked like they were well taken care
of....parenting classes...maybe CPS...should take a course.
wrz | 5:45 p.m. May 31, 2008
"Texas authorities need to start prosecuting for polygamy..."
Are you saying that one man and several women can't cohabitate but two men or two women (or maybe three or four) can?
And if two men or women cohabitate for a time are they considered to have a common law marriage?
Are you saying that one man and several women can't cohabitate but two men or two women (or maybe three or four) can?
And if two men or women cohabitate for a time are they considered to have a common law marriage?
Sandy from Arizona | 5:49 p.m. May 31, 2008
I agree Emma. I think we should email our Congressional and Senate
representatives. with our concern. It's so hard to watch this and do
nothing.
wrz | 5:50 p.m. May 31, 2008
"If that (Texas) law had previously been used to justify pushing young
girls into marriage with old men, it would have been changed years ago."
There was no prohibition on the age of the man in a marriage in Texas law. Still isn't.
"It was changed in response to the abusive use to which the FLDS tried to put it."
Abusive? Where are you getting that?
Religions have the right to teach their doctrine without interference (see the US Constitution).
There was no prohibition on the age of the man in a marriage in Texas law. Still isn't.
"It was changed in response to the abusive use to which the FLDS tried to put it."
Abusive? Where are you getting that?
Religions have the right to teach their doctrine without interference (see the US Constitution).
Ron in Texas | 6:09 p.m. May 31, 2008
FLDS compound a prison, or a concentration camp? Who's keeping them there?
The Texas CPS and Judge Walther, apparently. Look, folks, just because you
don't believe in a church, even one that's admittedly off the charts
like the FLDS, you can't justify these illegal actions by the state. If you
think every underage mother is a rape victim, would you please start enforcing
the law in every other corner of the country? Force those teen-age mothers to
give DNA samples and force them to reveal who they've been having sex with.
Is that what you want? Because that's what you're going to have to do
if you are convinced these girls have been raped. Now, that assumes none have
actually complained about being raped, or complained about being forced to
"marry" these old codgers. If any such complaining witness can be
found, let's prosecute to the full extent of the law. But leave everyone
else alone. Remember, they're trying to punish the girls and children so
far, not the fathers. Does that seem fair to y'all? :)
Not fair | 6:39 p.m. May 31, 2008
No it doesn't seem fair all. We need to stop this insanity of
constitutional violation before it over runs our whole country. I have a friend
that had CPS called on her by a neighbor who had been born and raised in Russia.
This friend and her husband had gone to dinner and her folks were staying with
their little kids. The neighbors didn't see the grandparents there and
thought that the children were alone and neglected so she called CPS in our
state and guess what? They now have a file opened on them and have been told
they can't leave the state until the investigation has been completed. CPS
has talked to all of the teachers at the children�s
schools, called the grandparents, other neighbors and still the file is open.
They can literally come and take the children. Doesn't that scare you? CPS
did say that my friend needs to take a parenting class and that there are
preschools available for her little children. She assured her that they take
care of their own children, etc. This little mother has a doctorate
degree�. Go figure! This ain�t Russia
is it?
Gal50 | 7:12 p.m. May 31, 2008
With possibly 20 statutory rape cases and not one adult on the compound
reporting any of these rape situations, it is clear that CPS needs 24 hour
access.
Many of the women can be held criminally liable for practicing polygamy as well as not protecting their minor daughters. It appears that the males who may have committed crimes fled just like Warren Jeffs fled. So, it is understandable that the women may flee especially since their "husbands" are gone. Perhaps as many as 15-20% of the men are engaged in statutory rape.
If all of these people leave the compound whether by fleeing, being cleared of charges or being jailed for crimes, it is possible they will be replaced with new people with exactly the same problems as the past bunch. Texas essentially needs to put a stop to polygamy and statutory rape. What it has to prevent is the exit of potential criminal suspects and the replacement of these suspects with new criminals who can not be investigated because of a lack of a crank call. Because of the code of silence, Texas needs to take extra measures to ensure the safety of the children.
Many of the women can be held criminally liable for practicing polygamy as well as not protecting their minor daughters. It appears that the males who may have committed crimes fled just like Warren Jeffs fled. So, it is understandable that the women may flee especially since their "husbands" are gone. Perhaps as many as 15-20% of the men are engaged in statutory rape.
If all of these people leave the compound whether by fleeing, being cleared of charges or being jailed for crimes, it is possible they will be replaced with new people with exactly the same problems as the past bunch. Texas essentially needs to put a stop to polygamy and statutory rape. What it has to prevent is the exit of potential criminal suspects and the replacement of these suspects with new criminals who can not be investigated because of a lack of a crank call. Because of the code of silence, Texas needs to take extra measures to ensure the safety of the children.
Think!!!! | 7:18 p.m. May 31, 2008
DISBAR THIS JUDGE. OBVIOUSLY SHE IS SO FULL OF PRIDE AND QUEST FOR POWER THAT
SHE CAN'T EVEN FOLLOW THE LETTER OF THE LAW. I WONDER WHAT OTHER SKELETONS
ARE IN HER CLOSET.
THE PARENTS ARE NOW SUPPOSE TO SUBMIT TO BEING ON A "PROBATION" SCHEDULE WHEN THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY PROOF BROUGHT FORWARD AND THEY HAVE NOT BEEN CONVICTED OF ANYTHING? SOGA OF THE MODERN DAY WITCH HUNT CONTINUES. PLEASE, EVERY ONE--WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMEN--BEFORE IT IS YOUR RIGHTS THAT ARE TAKEN!!
THE PARENTS ARE NOW SUPPOSE TO SUBMIT TO BEING ON A "PROBATION" SCHEDULE WHEN THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY PROOF BROUGHT FORWARD AND THEY HAVE NOT BEEN CONVICTED OF ANYTHING? SOGA OF THE MODERN DAY WITCH HUNT CONTINUES. PLEASE, EVERY ONE--WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMEN--BEFORE IT IS YOUR RIGHTS THAT ARE TAKEN!!
RE: WRZ | 7:19 p.m. May 31, 2008
Maybe from the books on the FLDS by people who left the community like Carolyn
Jessop, etc.
Proof? | 7:40 p.m. May 31, 2008
Where is your proof Gal50?
John Lambert | 7:44 p.m. May 31, 2008
A 17-year-old being pregnant does not prove rape. What if the father is also
17? According to your argument Jamie-Lynn Spears is a victim of rape.
Samuel's Mother | 7:47 p.m. May 31, 2008
Please send these poor children home. We also are a LDS family, not FLDS. No,
I do not believe that all was perfect on this ranch, but, neither is any
community. THESE CHILDREN NEED
THEIR MOTHERS!...just because someone's religion is different than yours,
does not mean the whole religious community should suffer. As a LDS mother, and
woman, I get my share of stares, just because of our make-up less faces, long
hair, and skirts. These poor people are even more outstandish than us. I do
believe these people are being mocked for how they look, i've expierienced
it myself. As we do share the Book Of Mormon, I feel for these poor people, I
would like to see them stop Polygamy, and live more like us.You do NOT have to
be a plural wife to get to Heaven. However, you cannot be so cruel as to
scapegoat a certain religious group.And, lately, watching this whole affair, I
have seen a whole lot of cruelty, mainly on the part of the Judge Barbara, CPS,
and the Texas police. If this is allowed to go on, none of us are safe, my two
sons, my whole life, are they next?
are we all crazy? | 7:56 p.m. May 31, 2008
Isn't adultery unlawful? Why not prosecute and persecute any person that
has committed adultery and then maybe we can say we should be prosecuting those
who practice polygamy without having to be under the heavy shadow of hypocrisy!
The crime is the underage intercourse.
This case has brought out the fact that America has still not moved past bigotry and that the agenda of this judge and the CPS is not to protect the innocent children, but to put an end to this religious sect that believes in polygamy. A century and a half ago an organization was formed based on the prejudice against a group of people because of their race. Luckily the KKK is not too active in the present day.
In america, we should be free of prejudice and let others enjoy their guaranteed freedoms independent of their race, sex, or religion. It is clear the agenda of this judge is not to protect children, but to cause this religious sect to become extinct. I wouldn't be surprised if this judge also drove around the Lone Star state with a noose attached to the back of her pick-up truck :(
The crime is the underage intercourse.
This case has brought out the fact that America has still not moved past bigotry and that the agenda of this judge and the CPS is not to protect the innocent children, but to put an end to this religious sect that believes in polygamy. A century and a half ago an organization was formed based on the prejudice against a group of people because of their race. Luckily the KKK is not too active in the present day.
In america, we should be free of prejudice and let others enjoy their guaranteed freedoms independent of their race, sex, or religion. It is clear the agenda of this judge is not to protect children, but to cause this religious sect to become extinct. I wouldn't be surprised if this judge also drove around the Lone Star state with a noose attached to the back of her pick-up truck :(
FALLACY-HUNTER | 8:14 p.m. May 31, 2008
SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENT AND DECISION
THEORY OF RECOVERY FROM:
TEXAS LOWER COURT'S "POLYGAMY SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENT AND DECISION"
HYPOTHESIS/ALLEDGE TEXAS-CPS FACILITATING, PROMOTING, AND/OR ENCOURAGING CABAL AND DISCORDIANISM: DEFINITION
HYPOTHESIS/ALLEDGE TEXAS LOWER COURT FACILITATING, PROMOTING, AND/OR ENCOURAGING "CABAL AND DISCORDIANISM:" DEFINITION
DEFINITION OF "CABAL AND DISCORDIANISM"
Avaialable at Wikipedia
* DISCLAIMER: Continuation of my literary work/efforts...fact/fiction...
quasi-fact/quasi-fiction...draft...outline...etc.
Authorship/Moral Rights: LSAT STUDENT OF FALLACIES, Debater or
FALLACY HUNTER
SIGNED: RECKIPS
==
THEORY OF RECOVERY FROM:
TEXAS LOWER COURT'S "POLYGAMY SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENT AND DECISION"
HYPOTHESIS/ALLEDGE TEXAS-CPS FACILITATING, PROMOTING, AND/OR ENCOURAGING CABAL AND DISCORDIANISM: DEFINITION
HYPOTHESIS/ALLEDGE TEXAS LOWER COURT FACILITATING, PROMOTING, AND/OR ENCOURAGING "CABAL AND DISCORDIANISM:" DEFINITION
DEFINITION OF "CABAL AND DISCORDIANISM"
Avaialable at Wikipedia
* DISCLAIMER: Continuation of my literary work/efforts...fact/fiction...
quasi-fact/quasi-fiction...draft...outline...etc.
Authorship/Moral Rights: LSAT STUDENT OF FALLACIES, Debater or
FALLACY HUNTER
SIGNED: RECKIPS
==
John Lambert | 8:15 p.m. May 31, 2008
To Sandy,
Why don't we let the CPS barge in on your family unannounced at any time of day or night. How will that make you feel?
Why don't we let the CPS barge in on your family unannounced at any time of day or night. How will that make you feel?
wrz | 8:39 p.m. May 31, 2008
"Maybe from the books on the FLDS by people who left the community like
Carolyn Jessop, etc."
There is not a group on the face of this earth that doesn't have at least one disgruntled member. I dare say that even your immediate family has one.
Look at Scott McClellan, former Presidential Press Secretary. He was beloved by Bush and his administration... yet he just published a scathing book against Bush.
There is not a group on the face of this earth that doesn't have at least one disgruntled member. I dare say that even your immediate family has one.
Look at Scott McClellan, former Presidential Press Secretary. He was beloved by Bush and his administration... yet he just published a scathing book against Bush.
John Lambert | 8:44 p.m. May 31, 2008
To Texas Proud:
You err not knowing the history. The number of prosecutions of people for sexual relations with underage girls has caused pro-polygamy activists in Utah to urge polygamists to stop underage marriages.
Since the FLDS have been since the 1930s (under various names) connected with the Colorado City/Hilldale Community, formerly know as Short Creek I would urge you to learn about the Short Creek raid. This was carried out by Arizona, but it was clearly an attack on the community you speak of.
Also, stop acting as if the only polygamy in the United States is related to the FLDS and other groups that claim to follow the teachings of Joseph Smith. There are many Hmong polygamists, many Christian polygamists who justify their practice based on the Bible and many Muslim polygamists. Muslim polygamy is particularly rife in New York, a known fact that the New York authorities have done nothing against even though it often involves underaged girls having relations with men significantly older than them.
You err not knowing the history. The number of prosecutions of people for sexual relations with underage girls has caused pro-polygamy activists in Utah to urge polygamists to stop underage marriages.
Since the FLDS have been since the 1930s (under various names) connected with the Colorado City/Hilldale Community, formerly know as Short Creek I would urge you to learn about the Short Creek raid. This was carried out by Arizona, but it was clearly an attack on the community you speak of.
Also, stop acting as if the only polygamy in the United States is related to the FLDS and other groups that claim to follow the teachings of Joseph Smith. There are many Hmong polygamists, many Christian polygamists who justify their practice based on the Bible and many Muslim polygamists. Muslim polygamy is particularly rife in New York, a known fact that the New York authorities have done nothing against even though it often involves underaged girls having relations with men significantly older than them.
John Lambert | 9:12 p.m. May 31, 2008
The ACLU was actually around when the Holocaust happened. The ACLU adopted
that name in 1920, but the organization can be traced back to 1917.
It also should be noted the ACLU wants to decriminalize the use of heroin and cocaine. I have major objections to this position. I also disagree with their opposition to momoents of silence, their opposition to any religious expression on public property and their campaign to force religion out of public life. I also totally disagree with their longstanding war on the Boy Scouts. However I would not condemn all their positions. Their attacks on the Boy Scout though are based on a major problem. Despite their claim to protect people's religious freedom they refuse to allow people to organize in ways that are affected by their religion, and consider it OK for government to actively denigrate a specific religion, preferibly a Christian one, but not to support groups with instill religious feeling. They do not understand the First Admentment.
It also should be noted the ACLU wants to decriminalize the use of heroin and cocaine. I have major objections to this position. I also disagree with their opposition to momoents of silence, their opposition to any religious expression on public property and their campaign to force religion out of public life. I also totally disagree with their longstanding war on the Boy Scouts. However I would not condemn all their positions. Their attacks on the Boy Scout though are based on a major problem. Despite their claim to protect people's religious freedom they refuse to allow people to organize in ways that are affected by their religion, and consider it OK for government to actively denigrate a specific religion, preferibly a Christian one, but not to support groups with instill religious feeling. They do not understand the First Admentment.
Anonymous | 9:24 p.m. May 31, 2008
This whole thing started because of a phone call...granted they think it is a
hoax now...but at the time they had no way of knowing that. They went in
thinking someone was really in need of help. The FLDS did not help the
situation any from the beginning. Rather than being upfront and honest with
authorities and giving correct information, they have given authorities the run
around. Authorities had to resort to DNA to figure out who belongs to who
because the FLDS have told so many different things to people. The whole thing
has landed everyone in a big mess that now needs to be straightened out. Granted
they've got all these kids in custody but how are they supposed to take an
FLDS mother's word that those specific children are hers after all the
untruths the group in general has told authorities? Given what the state supreme
court ruled, I think at the very least the state needs to make sure the kids are
really going home with one of their own parents. I think the cases of underage
girls who are/have been pregnant need to be looked at closer before releasing
those girls to anyone.
LDS Too | 9:42 p.m. May 31, 2008
Bruce - I'm glad the LDS church isn't doing anything to
"help" the FLDS. I would be horrified if they did. You can not speak
for all LDS people - we do not all think like you - in fact, in my conversations
with other members, I would say that most of them are glad that somebody is
finally trying to put a stop to the abusive practices of the FLDS.
Also: One LDS poster said
As a LDS mother, and woman, I get my share of stares, just because of our make-up less faces, long hair, and skirts.
WHAT?!?! I don't think this person was really LDS - we don't get stared at, we DO wear make-up, we don't all have long hair and I only wear a dress on
Sunday! PLEASE do not think that the LDS women are like the FLDS women.
I'm not a lawyer, so I can't argue over the legality of the issue, but I believe that the way the FLDS live is wrong. Women are not property. A Mother deserves fidelity from her spouse. Assigning and reassigning women and children is a little bit too much like slavery.
Also: One LDS poster said
As a LDS mother, and woman, I get my share of stares, just because of our make-up less faces, long hair, and skirts.
WHAT?!?! I don't think this person was really LDS - we don't get stared at, we DO wear make-up, we don't all have long hair and I only wear a dress on
Sunday! PLEASE do not think that the LDS women are like the FLDS women.
I'm not a lawyer, so I can't argue over the legality of the issue, but I believe that the way the FLDS live is wrong. Women are not property. A Mother deserves fidelity from her spouse. Assigning and reassigning women and children is a little bit too much like slavery.
saddened | 10:57 p.m. May 31, 2008
It is sad to see a judge and the CPS get away with what is clearly against the
FLDS's constitutional rights. Talk about abuse of power. Who is going to
reign these people in??? They spend unlimited tax dollars and use their
positions of authority to push their own agendas with no negative consequences.
This is getting way out of control - all over the country, not just in this
particular case.
mike leach | 11:11 p.m. May 31, 2008
We as Americans have the responsibility to throw off such abusive government
when the government infringes on the rights and detriment of the people.
This Judge is "mentally deficient". She should be jailed for contempt of court and disbarred.
All the CPS officials responsible for this illegal raid should be fired and jailed on federal charges for detaining these children and the mothers.
The State of Texas should be sued until they are bankrupt.
This Judge is "mentally deficient". She should be jailed for contempt of court and disbarred.
All the CPS officials responsible for this illegal raid should be fired and jailed on federal charges for detaining these children and the mothers.
The State of Texas should be sued until they are bankrupt.
Gray Wolf... | 11:22 p.m. May 31, 2008
Most of the posters to this story fail to remember a few things:
Polygamy is illegal.
Polygamists are liars.
Warren Jeffs is in prison.
The DNA results have not yet been processed.
Judge Barbara Walther is right on task. Let's hope she can help the immature mothers and young children. No doubt she is standing up against those who would support the FLDS positions.
Here's hoping Texas can stop the spread of polygamy.
The Utah Justice System has never had the will to do it. Why?
Polygamy is illegal.
Polygamists are liars.
Warren Jeffs is in prison.
The DNA results have not yet been processed.
Judge Barbara Walther is right on task. Let's hope she can help the immature mothers and young children. No doubt she is standing up against those who would support the FLDS positions.
Here's hoping Texas can stop the spread of polygamy.
The Utah Justice System has never had the will to do it. Why?
Gramma | 11:24 p.m. May 31, 2008
This is the way CPS and it's lackey judges operate all around the world.
USA, Canada, England - they're all the same - bullies, with no respect for
civil rights or the law.
Wake up, parents. It's time to get rid of politicians who won't abolish CPS. Let the police investigate any claims of abuse, and let due process be employed so that families, justice, and democracy can be preserved.
Wake up, parents. It's time to get rid of politicians who won't abolish CPS. Let the police investigate any claims of abuse, and let due process be employed so that families, justice, and democracy can be preserved.
FLDS Pick-N-Choose | 11:35 p.m. May 31, 2008
The FLDS seem to have a selective set of beliefs. They believe in Joseph Smith
but for some reason have amnesia when it comes to remembering the 12th Article
of Faith... you know, the one about obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
Seems that they only want to obey the laws that are expedient to their perverted
lifestyle.
IN UTAH, POLYGAMY IS STILL (and always will be) A FELONY!
Our impotent attorney general needs to take action!
IN UTAH, POLYGAMY IS STILL (and always will be) A FELONY!
Our impotent attorney general needs to take action!
Lame | 11:38 p.m. May 31, 2008
Oh well, on to the next story. I'm tired of FLDS sex abusers , CPS
kidnappers and the bible belt conspirators of Texas. What a bunch of nutty
whacked out people.
Gramma | 11:41 p.m. May 31, 2008
CONTEMPT OF COURT - Any willful disobedience to, or disregard of, a court order
or any misconduct in the presence of a court; action that interferes with a
judge's ability to administer justice or that insults the dignity of the
court; punishable by fine or imprisonment or both.
Throw Judge Barb Wire in the Klink!
Throw Judge Barb Wire in the Klink!
Bob G | 4:57 a.m. June 1, 2008
Why are any negotiations requried or needed? The ruling was to release the
children but the state is acting out of order in their actions to try and
negotiate. These parents and especially their lawyers should be fighting mad at
the prosecutors and demand release, no ifs, and or buts. The Child welfare
people should be arrested for their illegal and inappropiate actions. The
problem is with child welfare and their lies and deceitful tactics, not the
parents.
Sandy | 5:35 a.m. June 1, 2008
I am for Judge Walther. There needs to be ongoing checks on the children at the
camp. If they are allow to go back than the state officials still need to
investigate the needs of the children. If the FLDS doesn't have anything
to hide, than they shouldn't mind having the officials there. This whole
case is about protecting children from abuse. I am surprised that those mothers
would allow their children to be in a situation that would be harmful to them.
Marrying your daughters at 14 is wrong. Besides, I also thought polygamy was
against the law. In the early 1900's it was abandon from the Mormon
practice. If its against the law, why are the FLDS allow to practice it now.
The state of Texas has every right to investigate cases of where there might be
abuse. Unfortunately, there are so many at this camp. Protect the children!
Sweet Liberty | 6:49 a.m. June 1, 2008
Oh, gracious God they�ve taken our children.
Bring forth Thy pure laws of freedom.
Ne�er can I rest nor will peace find my breast
Till justice is served and our children are returned.
Together we'll walk hand in hand;
Dwelling in the pure light of freedom.
We will honor God in love and peace,
with our children, on earth as in heaven.
Given of God, these are our children.
We�re bound to each other forever.
What God joins together is bound in the heavens.
Oh let freedom ring and shine bright forever.
Then shall I rest in sweet peace and happiness,
When justice is served and our dear ones are returned.
God bless His children.
Bring forth Thy pure laws of freedom.
Ne�er can I rest nor will peace find my breast
Till justice is served and our children are returned.
Together we'll walk hand in hand;
Dwelling in the pure light of freedom.
We will honor God in love and peace,
with our children, on earth as in heaven.
Given of God, these are our children.
We�re bound to each other forever.
What God joins together is bound in the heavens.
Oh let freedom ring and shine bright forever.
Then shall I rest in sweet peace and happiness,
When justice is served and our dear ones are returned.
God bless His children.
Not a practice | 7:08 a.m. June 1, 2008
Re: Wow judge!!
"...we wouldn't be going through all this."
Who's we? You are not going through any of it, except to sit infront of your computer screen and read about it. If you were involved you'd know the facts instead of just blowing out wind. The FLDS don't make a practice of underage marriage, the state of Texas has a record of 3 underage ladies out of the 10 thousand FLDS people, who are I might mention happily married and desire to return to their families-- but that's not what the media is blasting. When does 3 out of 10,000 become a religious practice? Kinda twisted...
"...we wouldn't be going through all this."
Who's we? You are not going through any of it, except to sit infront of your computer screen and read about it. If you were involved you'd know the facts instead of just blowing out wind. The FLDS don't make a practice of underage marriage, the state of Texas has a record of 3 underage ladies out of the 10 thousand FLDS people, who are I might mention happily married and desire to return to their families-- but that's not what the media is blasting. When does 3 out of 10,000 become a religious practice? Kinda twisted...
ugh | 8:34 a.m. June 1, 2008
The issue in TX isn't about Polygamy or you would see polygamy charges
which the DA already stated would not be filed, forget the fact that these are
spiritual and not legal marriages. While admittedly, there are a few girls that
are potential victims, the rate remains lower among the FLDS than outside of the
polyg compound. When all is said and down, this really is about religious
freedom since MOST were not practicing in anything illicit, again most girls
were not victims and the rate of underage sex was lower than outside of the
compound. Simply good Texas and rate of underage sex and you might all be
surprised at what a witch hunt this truly is. And finally, at the risk of
repeating myself the rate of underage sex is lower on the FLDS compound and the
Bishop's record also show the vast majority of girls marry within the age
appropriate background. The "lost boys" are mostly men in their
20's with no need of protection. You folks, have been duped.
An agnostic that bothered to do the research.
An agnostic that bothered to do the research.
re Flds pick n chose | 9:25 a.m. June 1, 2008
Polygamy is the LEGAL marriage of one man to more than 1 woman. The FLDS do not
legally marry but spiritually marry, so are not committing any crime. They are
effectively shacking up.
In TX, a 14 year old becomes pregnant every 10 hours according to dshs. Where are all those arrests? OH wait, TX only targets the removal of FLDS children where no evidence is obtained per the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court of TX. If you aren't FLDS, the law will ignore you and your identical actions.
In TX, a 14 year old becomes pregnant every 10 hours according to dshs. Where are all those arrests? OH wait, TX only targets the removal of FLDS children where no evidence is obtained per the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court of TX. If you aren't FLDS, the law will ignore you and your identical actions.
CPS | 11:17 a.m. June 1, 2008
As a CPS employee, I was dumbfounded when I learned how subjectivity and
perception are major components in decisions that remove children from parents.
Supervisors and Program Directors make decisions based on the judgment of
poorly-trained case workers who are usually brand-new to this
"business" and,many times, parents' and children's rights
are trampled, family's lives are disrupted, and the family unit is forever
damaged. CPS caseworkers go home at night to their families with no
repercussions, but parents who are in CPS regions where power-hungry
"administrators" roam with all of their gloating, superior attitudes
are targets to an agency that investigates every call. CPS can find
"risk" in any family and in any household. The interpretation is
totally subjective. Until this agency' feet is held to the fire and
lawsuits are filed and won, I see a situation spiralling out of control with no
end in sight. God help you if you are ever on the receiving end of a CPS
report.
operation CYA | 11:08 p.m. June 1, 2008
May 19, 2008, OPERATION CYA, Arizona
"Trying to cover a texas SIZED BUTT! CPS and state officials are trying to cover their butts with a hopelessly too small washcloth. They are constantly moving and shifting the washcloth depending on which angle the public happens to be viewing their exposed butt from. They have a problem, no matter where they put it the view is still obscene. They could have saved themselves a very serious embarrassment had they remembered a very simple lesson taught to them by their mothers as kids. "When caught in a lie, confess, apologize, and make it right". "Do not attempt to cover the first lie with another bigger lie, then an even bigger one to cover that one and so on until it snowballs out of control". This would be somewhat comical to watch if it was not for the human element involved, and the life long traumatizing of young, pure, innocent, and helpless children."
"Trying to cover a texas SIZED BUTT! CPS and state officials are trying to cover their butts with a hopelessly too small washcloth. They are constantly moving and shifting the washcloth depending on which angle the public happens to be viewing their exposed butt from. They have a problem, no matter where they put it the view is still obscene. They could have saved themselves a very serious embarrassment had they remembered a very simple lesson taught to them by their mothers as kids. "When caught in a lie, confess, apologize, and make it right". "Do not attempt to cover the first lie with another bigger lie, then an even bigger one to cover that one and so on until it snowballs out of control". This would be somewhat comical to watch if it was not for the human element involved, and the life long traumatizing of young, pure, innocent, and helpless children."
operation CYA 2 | 11:09 p.m. June 1, 2008
Even if the accusations of abuse were true, [which I attest are absolutely
false], the state and CPS has done more harm to the phsyci of the children in a
few weeks than their parents could have hoped to do in a lifetime. My suggestion
to Texas and CPS officials, "Heed the counsel of your mothers, provided CPS
didn't take you from her, and quite trying to cover your lies with bigger
lies". If you choose to ignore this warning may I suggest you trade in your
washcloth for a Barnum & Bailey circus tent tarp. Actually make that two
tarps. One to house the circus that you are making out of peoples lives and
families. The other to cover your over exposed backside. The washcloth approach
is hopelessly inadequate to cover your incompetence.
CPS disgust | 10:10 p.m. June 3, 2008
Operation CYA, I love your imagery. But no Texas official will ever admit to
making a misjudgment. Basically these people spend their days doing as little
as possible, sitting back on their butts and cushions, stuffing their faces,
yelling "yeah, yeah" to their "superiors." Tenured workers
(the mules) speak of how the most incompetent, lazy, and unprincipled people are
promoted to the positions of these all-important decision-makers about children.
Their butts are showing, but they are intentionally wearing butt-pants,
sticking their buttocks arrogantly into the air, inviting all to pucker up.
Cause they ain't going anywhere...and now they have something to talk
about...how right they are....and how the world just doesn't understand
what they do....and the children cry...
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"If there would have been an ACLU back in the early days our people wouldn't have gotten pushed to and fro and terrorized like they were. And later on there wouldn't have been a Holocaust either. "
I think you are being a bit naive about the ACLU. The ACLU has nothing to do with real civil liberties, but it sounds good. They are just a leftist activist group masquerading as a "promotor of civil rights". They aren't interested in the civil rights of religious groups. They are a joke.