Comments about ‘FLDS parents could pick up children this weekend’

Well, this is witch Walther's chance to inflict as much continued misery and trauma on these good families as she can in her about-to-be-over career. This is election year in a county that normally gets about a 10% turnout, and now there's several hundred new voters. Can you say "Sheriff Willie"?
And where is CPS going to get the money that was going to come from adopting out all those young children?

well, hopefully two things happen...

first, they will return all the little kids right away, and hopefully the parents have been shocked enough so now they won't even consider marriages under 18 yrs old. Hell, they might even let women pick their own husband. What a concept!

second, they will keep the teenage girls and boys, thereby protecting them from further abuse and providing them an opportunity that they would never have with their parents. The opportunity to determine their own future, not the future pre-determined by their parents and their "prophet". Again, what a concept!

If so, even though everyone is saying that Texas lost this battle, I would disagree. They will have saved numerous teenagers from the no-future fate of their parents, and they will have opened the eyes of the parents so they see and understand the meaning of abuse (since I firmly believe they had no clue before.)

And if we can put away Warren Jeffs for child rape (which should be a slam-dunk given all his child brides), then there may be hope for these people yet.

I still worry about the lack of future for the little kids, but you can't save everyone.

Enjoy that crow.

Better hope there is no "Sherrif Willie" since he's about as psyco as they come....

Walther and many others should be tried for genocide!


Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.

While precise definition varies among genocide scholars, a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Article 2, of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or "religious group", as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and]

"forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Read the definition of genocide ... and decide if and to whom it applies AND who should be tried FIRST.

Hint:
The legal definition inludes"

" imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

OK, state can hold adults hostage by just saying they are under 18. State can say wedding of 17 year old girl and 20 year old boy is not official due to it being done in the church. BUT, a guy married to two woman by the church is wrong? I see no difference between this and a married man or woman having someone on the side. TX is way out of bounds on this one, and owes this group billions. Start with $100,000,000 for each child, then followup with $100,000,000 times the difference of actual age minus eighteen for each adult held against their will.

realitycheck said:

>second, they will keep the teenage girls and boys,

I think you are misinformed. The higher courts said to return ALL of the children to the parents.

I do agree with this:

>shocked enough so now they won't even consider marriages under 18 yrs old.

I am hopeful that YFZ Ranch and FLDS in general will toe the line on state law. That means 16 or older with parental consent for legal marriages and 17 or older for 'spiritual' marriages.

I can understand how some may think it is Genocide but according to your own stated definition it is not because the were not transfered to another group. If they ALL had been transfered to a Catholic school for "reprogramming" or to a Baptist boarding school etc. then you might be accurate.

They may have gone about it the wrong way but many of the FLDS children are at risk for sexual and other abuse/neglect. The continued investigation will show that the "leaders" of the FLDS are promoting child brides and abandoning boys on the side of the road for "dropping the F bomb".

are you for real? I don't disagree that texas was out of line taking all those kids, but 100 million per kid? thats extremly excessive and also unrealistic, they don't even give prisioners that were inoccent that kind of money for being locked up for 20 years.

re - Concerned Dad

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the order only applies to children that are not at current risk. I think even the appeals court ruled that adolecents(sp?) were in immediate danger, so they would be exempt from these rulings......

I may be wrong, but that's my understanding. And my hope...

And to American - you still don't get it. CPS didn't do what they did to cause harm. They may think too much of themselves, but I don't believe they did what they did with malice. And to get money (or anything else) from the state, it must be proven that the actions were done with malice . I don't think that's gonna happen.

If CPS can call the whole ranch one household, then a genocide prosecutor should be able to say that all of CPS is one group. Taking children from one group to give to another group, is genocide. See?

Who is the local U.S. Attorney? How about a special procecutor?

Judges are 100% immune from civil liability for their rulings even if done in bad faith, but there is utterly no judicial immunity for criminal liability, and the Federal criminal code calls genocide a crime - punishable by up to 20 years in Federal prison!

Take THAT Judge Walther!

I am so happy for the FLDS by the ruling of the Supreme Court. I cannot believe the disaster that has been created by CPS, State Officials, and the Lower Court who clearly violated our constitution. Adults who had committed no crimes were held against their will. The sexual abuse of what turned out to be five girls gave CPS the right to take over 400 children in this community, and hold them hostage. Of course, the person, persons who commited these acts against these five children should be held accountable. But, to uproot the whole community? To force adult women to give birth while CPS watched over like hawks is horrible for the two women who suffered through this. Many of these people are probably going to need mental health help to recover from what has happened.Is the State willing to help them with that. I am completely appalled at this situation of true child abuse by CPS. These children have suffered so much. Constitutional rights have been violated. I heard that many of the children are overjoyed at the prospect of returning home. I hope these children will be returned as soon as possible.

one thing you must realise if FDLS sue the state
in a civil lidigation they totally open themselves
to being questioned under oath and they can not take the 5th in a civil lidigation
they will all be questioned

Genocide? Really, all of you using this term to describe the removal of the children from a harmful living situation ought to be ashamed of yourselves. This is not Nazi Germany of Darfur. You lose total credibility when you resort to such extreme language. Do not insult the victims of true genocidal actions.

Hopefully this arrogant, provincial legal dictator
will abide by the higher courts mandate. In New Mexico, the lower courts seldom even follow the ruling of higher courts. These people act like
we are subservient to them. These judges own us.
Most of the time their power has skewed their sense
of reasoning and insight. We need to have criminal
charges levied and enforced against CPS, the woman
who made the false allegation, and this judge.
Let them not hide under the hideous cloak of immunity.

I doubt the FLDS will sue the state.

1. They don't trust the courts.
2. They don't trust the state.
3. They don't want publicity.
4. They just don't work that way. They're still old-school. If they have a bone to pick with you they do it personally. They don't run to court and sue you. But maybe their learning to be more like us.

The U.N. definition of genocide, read D and E:

...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2

What about: Illegal search of person to obtain DNA?
Do we want any state to come into our:
exclusive "Gated Community" and, force us to give DNA because a neighbor may or, may not, have; in their role of "Grandpa and/or Grandma" possibly; caused/saw/et.al. "Abuse?"
I personally would like to see a return or, destruction of all DNA "Evidence" and, the Court "make whole" this Group. Also; the "Jessop Girls" should be sued for libel as the C.P.S found no proof of their Allegations. (Please read Nancy Grace's Bio and, almost disbarment)
"Judge" Walters should be removed as should the C.P.S's top officers. It goes without saying that the Texas Ranger Comander should be reassignsd and, if it is true that; Swinton made hoax calls she should be prosecuted; the Sheriff should also be removed. Then; the Governor should suffer the same fate. I hope that all have learned not to jump to conclusions and, trust the Law to investigate not,act: assume that a crime was committed. ( I've heard so many times that "there was/is irrefutable proof of abuse..."
But, that would only happen in a perfect world wouldn't it?

I didn't think so at first, but now I believe that much of the actions of the CPS were founded upon malice towards the residents of the ranch. If you research local newspaper articles from the ranch area of Texas, you can find anti-FLDS articles going back to 2004. There is already much talk in Texas of confiscating the ranch itself to pay for CPS costs in the raid. There have been complaints in the Texas government that the raid utilized Baptist busses at a cost far higher than obtaining busses from other sources. The head of the CPS is Baptist by coincidence.

The CPS supposedly had an informant at the ranch who didn't have the slightest idea how many children were actually living there. CPS was warned before the raid that they might encounter armed resistance. So who hated the FLDS enough to prompt a heavily armed excursion to kidnap innocent children in an obvious effort to destroy the community? This situation obviously goes far beyond the surface issue of child abuse. It involves money, religion, envy, and fear of a group of people who appear to be very different than average americans. "Child abuse" was the rallying cry.