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Texas can't hold 'em: Supreme court says state erred in taking children
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Conejo | 1:48 a.m. May 30, 2008
Anyone who has taken ANY law classes in the past 20 years knew this wasn't
going to hold up. Good to see there are at least 2 judges in Texas who recognize
B.S. when it is presented to them. Now, if they can just find people who are
guilty and need to be arrested in this case the might just be doing something
other than displaying their paranoia to the country.
rvalens2 | 1:53 a.m. May 30, 2008
Thank goodness the court ruled against Child Protective Services.
The arrogance of CPS to think they could remove the children without establishing just cause in each case was unconscionable.
I hope the parents sue the State and the CPS officials directly involved in making the decision to take the children.
When government, at any level, thinks it can do such things without due process, then we have truly lost our freedom and the Nanny State has arrived.
The arrogance of CPS to think they could remove the children without establishing just cause in each case was unconscionable.
I hope the parents sue the State and the CPS officials directly involved in making the decision to take the children.
When government, at any level, thinks it can do such things without due process, then we have truly lost our freedom and the Nanny State has arrived.
Comments continue below
Interloper | 2:00 a.m. May 30, 2008
I think matters may worsen for both pubescent girls and boys from YFZ Ranch.
The rush to 'marry' girls barely ready for a bra may be accelerated
because the eligible men will fear not getting 'theirs.' The elite
will resent 'excess' boys using up assets more than ever and evict
them faster.
If there are children who do not want to return to FLDS custody, hopefully, some lawyers will represent their interest. CPS should, but may be wary of doing so.
BTW, can Merril Jessop come out of hiding, now?
If there are children who do not want to return to FLDS custody, hopefully, some lawyers will represent their interest. CPS should, but may be wary of doing so.
BTW, can Merril Jessop come out of hiding, now?
Teacher and Dad | 3:08 a.m. May 30, 2008
Vince Nowak, an Amarillo attorney representing five boys housed as Boys Ranch,
said technically the ruling only affects the 38 mothers who filed the
petition.
"But it's going to affect all the kids because the court found there was no evidence to remove any of the kids," Nowak said. "I think you'll see every mother join in this. I think you'll see the majority of the kids going home, and home is going to be the Yearning for Zion ranch."
The five boys were ecstatic to hear the news of the ruling, he said.
"A couple of them cried," Nowak said. "A couple of them were cheering. They want to go home in the worst way."
"But it's going to affect all the kids because the court found there was no evidence to remove any of the kids," Nowak said. "I think you'll see every mother join in this. I think you'll see the majority of the kids going home, and home is going to be the Yearning for Zion ranch."
The five boys were ecstatic to hear the news of the ruling, he said.
"A couple of them cried," Nowak said. "A couple of them were cheering. They want to go home in the worst way."
L. G. KIRKPATRICK | 4:01 a.m. May 30, 2008
Hell hath no fury like that of a wronged Mother.
WAY TO HANG IN THERE, FLDS! CONGRATULATIONS!
WAY TO HANG IN THERE, FLDS! CONGRATULATIONS!
justjoe | 4:59 a.m. May 30, 2008
FINALLY
VA gal | 5:10 a.m. May 30, 2008
With the traumatic events of this raid I am sure that the women do not want to
see this happen again. I would guess that from now on they will (at least at
this ranch) wait until the age of consent to marry their young people. This
outcome of not allowing anyone under 17 (TX consent age) to marry could have
been achieved without all this trauma to the children. CPS erred in it's
zeal to protect children it did more harm than good.
WRONG=RIGHT=WRONG | 5:15 a.m. May 30, 2008
TEXAS was WRONG in "Rounding Up" the children!
TEXAS is RIGHT if they JAIL ALL those who are involved with underage marriages.
UTAH is WRONG also if they allow this pratice to go on --- they need to stop it here also.
TEXAS is RIGHT if they JAIL ALL those who are involved with underage marriages.
UTAH is WRONG also if they allow this pratice to go on --- they need to stop it here also.
just thinking II | 5:17 a.m. May 30, 2008
I am not FLDS but we were praying everyday for the safe return of these
children. Thank God He answered our prayers, and also the prayers of others. It
appears the Utah AG is right in the way to handle these problems.
Congratulations TEXAS | 5:31 a.m. May 30, 2008
Congratulations to TEXAS in that they at least tried to put a stop to underage
marriages --- Only TEXAS was wrong in the way they went about it --- TEXAS still
has the chance to do it wright.
FLDS - STOP THIS PRACTICE
FLDS - STOP THIS PRACTICE
Bob G | 5:40 a.m. May 30, 2008
I have to agree with the court on this one. Child Welfare advocates are trying
to open the door to neighborhood sweeps of children removing any of them they
deem in thier minds as mistreated, regardless of others rights. They want to
operate outside the law and the justice system. They act as judge, jury, and
excutioner in their zealous misguided minds. Child welfare services and
advocates are acting irresponsible and without legal authority to violate
parents civil and constitutional rights. Parents have a right to raise thier
children in any manner they chose regardless of race, religion, the child
welfare services interpetration of how a child should be raised. Once child
welfare confiscates children they dump them in unworthy and irresponsibles
peoples laps and causing severe traumatic and mental injuries on these children.
Child welfare services across the country need to be given some set standards
and rules they must obey, regardless of their persoanl and religious beliefs.
Their actions cause more harm than they will ever do good in the name of the
children. "In the name of the children" has lost its flavor and
meaning in thier zealous behavior.
Joel | 5:44 a.m. May 30, 2008
Ahhh! Another breath of reason and wisdom to restore my faith in the basic
goodness of most Texans, and the State that I grew to love during my sojourn
there many years ago. Thanks from the bottom of my heart, esteemed Justices,
one and all.
As for the perpetrators of this colossal blunder, I pray that our Lord Jesus Christ will bless each with the guidance, help, knowledge, and wisdom to recognize the error of their ways and repent quickly before it grows too late, that they may find "the more excellent way" and live in peace and joy henceforth and forever more. May it be so for all of us, and may God Bless America likewise.
Peace, my friends.
As for the perpetrators of this colossal blunder, I pray that our Lord Jesus Christ will bless each with the guidance, help, knowledge, and wisdom to recognize the error of their ways and repent quickly before it grows too late, that they may find "the more excellent way" and live in peace and joy henceforth and forever more. May it be so for all of us, and may God Bless America likewise.
Peace, my friends.
mensem | 5:44 a.m. May 30, 2008
Good news. I'll be watching to see what FACTS the investigation brings
forth (instead of a bunch of "I think there's abuse" from CPS).
My afterthought (after reading the court pdf files) was what in the world was this local judge thinking??? She even went against the councel of the court psych when he said taking kids less than 5 years old from their parents would do great harm (physical,emaotional,social) to the child.
It's hard to believe any judge trying rightly to apply the law could arrive at the decision she did. Thankfully we have checks and balances.
My afterthought (after reading the court pdf files) was what in the world was this local judge thinking??? She even went against the councel of the court psych when he said taking kids less than 5 years old from their parents would do great harm (physical,emaotional,social) to the child.
It's hard to believe any judge trying rightly to apply the law could arrive at the decision she did. Thankfully we have checks and balances.
God forbid | 5:45 a.m. May 30, 2008
After all this time
I do believe it is time to punish the perpitraters for the crimre they have commited
We do have a Constitution and Civil Rights Violations
Civil Liberties to live in ones home in peace without outside interfearance
A Right to fight and Protect ones Family
The Laws are going over the line
Waco was also a good example of that
The Federal Government must up hold the Law
Not Trample on it
Don't forget the Indians
They have not recovered to ths day
This is the History of America
I do believe it is time to punish the perpitraters for the crimre they have commited
We do have a Constitution and Civil Rights Violations
Civil Liberties to live in ones home in peace without outside interfearance
A Right to fight and Protect ones Family
The Laws are going over the line
Waco was also a good example of that
The Federal Government must up hold the Law
Not Trample on it
Don't forget the Indians
They have not recovered to ths day
This is the History of America
mike | 5:52 a.m. May 30, 2008
I'm happy for the families that were wronged in this matter by state of
Texas. Having lived in St. George and having hired many construction people from
Polygamous communities, I have nothing but respect for them and many of their
traits. Their spokesman front and center, Willie Jessop always treated me fair
and like a true Christian in all our dealings. As the W in R and W Excavating,
he was a great worker and friend. I'm happy for them all.
Momotaro | 5:59 a.m. May 30, 2008
It's wonderful that the children can return to their mothers. CPS was a
disaster from the start.
If there has been any abuse I hope the practice stops and the offenders prosecuted.
If there has been any abuse I hope the practice stops and the offenders prosecuted.
mensem | 6:01 a.m. May 30, 2008
FYI:
CPS's "own witness, child-psychiatrist Dr. Bruce Perry, testified that it was more detrimental to the children under age five to be removed from their parents than to be exposed to their parents' lifestyle."
This was from the court document pdf file posted by the Deseret News.
CPS's "own witness, child-psychiatrist Dr. Bruce Perry, testified that it was more detrimental to the children under age five to be removed from their parents than to be exposed to their parents' lifestyle."
This was from the court document pdf file posted by the Deseret News.
Family at risk | 6:03 a.m. May 30, 2008
Texas has people in place that has not been Educated in the Peoples Rights.
Check out the Ammendments to the United States Constitution of America
Civil Rights
Rights to Civil Liberties
Those People have Violated the Laws of the Federal Government and need to be Punished HARSHLY
They need to pay DEARLY for the DAMAGE they have caused to
WE THE PEOPLE !!!!
Even the FLDS People are Americans first
We can not allow TEXAS to ESCAPE PUNISHMENT
Check out the Ammendments to the United States Constitution of America
Civil Rights
Rights to Civil Liberties
Those People have Violated the Laws of the Federal Government and need to be Punished HARSHLY
They need to pay DEARLY for the DAMAGE they have caused to
WE THE PEOPLE !!!!
Even the FLDS People are Americans first
We can not allow TEXAS to ESCAPE PUNISHMENT
System still works | 6:47 a.m. May 30, 2008
One for the people!!!
Anonymous | 7:15 a.m. May 30, 2008
I want to thank Heavenly Father for turning this battle at the gate.
bilbo | 7:19 a.m. May 30, 2008
Congratulations Texas said:"Congratulations to TEXAS in that they at least
tried to put a stop to underage marriages...."
well, I reckon by YOUR reckoning, it is sorta like the general in the Viet Nam war who said: " we had to destroy the village to win the battle for the people" or words to that effects.
TEXAS...can you spell BANKRUPTCY? or RAISE TAXES? or SUPPLEMENTAL BUDGET INCREASE? or JURIST RECALLED?
well, I reckon by YOUR reckoning, it is sorta like the general in the Viet Nam war who said: " we had to destroy the village to win the battle for the people" or words to that effects.
TEXAS...can you spell BANKRUPTCY? or RAISE TAXES? or SUPPLEMENTAL BUDGET INCREASE? or JURIST RECALLED?
Congratulations Texas! | 7:19 a.m. May 30, 2008
You've actually done something right. The least you could do is ask
forgiveness after you return their children and maybe pay them for the trouble
you've caused them.
Utah FLDS | 7:23 a.m. May 30, 2008
I watched 3 sparrows flying after a crow and pecking it on the head, either
trying to get the crow to drop their egg or telling it to stay away from their
nest. My little sister asked why they were doing that and when I explained it to
her she said, oh it must be a CPS crow. It was a good representation anyway.
Doug | 7:28 a.m. May 30, 2008
Texas must not be let off scott free in this mess or they will do something just
as stupid again, to the same group in the name of some other cause they think
they can get away with. Please, FLDS, even though I don't agree with some
things you may do, I have respect for you, but this is not a time to turn the
other cheek or Texas will be onto you again. Please stick it to them.
This incident should cost them dearly and they should be sued for all infractions of the law. Like someone said in the beginning of the whole mess, Texas better get out their checkbook as it is going to cost them.
Now, FLDS, if there exists any abuse in your ranks, please take care of business right away or Texas will find some excuse to do something about it. Lessons learned?
FLDS Moms, use your newly realized strength to tell your men, "what for". You have always been stronger than any man. Use that strength.
This incident should cost them dearly and they should be sued for all infractions of the law. Like someone said in the beginning of the whole mess, Texas better get out their checkbook as it is going to cost them.
Now, FLDS, if there exists any abuse in your ranks, please take care of business right away or Texas will find some excuse to do something about it. Lessons learned?
FLDS Moms, use your newly realized strength to tell your men, "what for". You have always been stronger than any man. Use that strength.
Trudy | 7:35 a.m. May 30, 2008
We had CPS show up at our door the day after we hand- delivered a note to our
local school that we were home schooling our 12 year old son. The school was
angry they were losing an A student - and so they reported us as truant - which
they knew was a lie.
The CPS workers had to do a complete investigation - then the workers apologized to us - and said: "it happens."
The CPS workers had to do a complete investigation - then the workers apologized to us - and said: "it happens."
moniker | 7:45 a.m. May 30, 2008
Mike,
Our experience was similar to yours. We had occasion to observe FLDS members working together on a project.
We didn't know what to expect at first, only knowing the usual rumors. What we experienced were clean, kind, hard working, and friendly people. We didn't see a single confrontation among the children that were working side by side for days - and they chatter just like any kids. I didn't hear one harsh word from the adults who supervised(and worked as well). There was a sense of community that I haven't seen in Utah since the 1950's.
There were some financial transactions involved which, though handled by men, were overseen by some wives who certainly had authority. We would never hesitate again to work with them.
I hope Texas will stop treating the FLDS like some foreign "Borg" and get to know them.
Not listening to our AG, who discouraged the blanket action of CPS, may be costly for Texas. The greatest cost will be borne by the children who are now emotionally damaged and more afraid of Texas than any possible abuse within the FLDS community.
Our experience was similar to yours. We had occasion to observe FLDS members working together on a project.
We didn't know what to expect at first, only knowing the usual rumors. What we experienced were clean, kind, hard working, and friendly people. We didn't see a single confrontation among the children that were working side by side for days - and they chatter just like any kids. I didn't hear one harsh word from the adults who supervised(and worked as well). There was a sense of community that I haven't seen in Utah since the 1950's.
There were some financial transactions involved which, though handled by men, were overseen by some wives who certainly had authority. We would never hesitate again to work with them.
I hope Texas will stop treating the FLDS like some foreign "Borg" and get to know them.
Not listening to our AG, who discouraged the blanket action of CPS, may be costly for Texas. The greatest cost will be borne by the children who are now emotionally damaged and more afraid of Texas than any possible abuse within the FLDS community.
Ray | 7:45 a.m. May 30, 2008
Alas, I have no faith that the kids will be home any time soon. I think the
appeals court will need to fix a genuine deadline or else CPS and the judge will
just drag things out forever and ever.
aint it intresting | 8:04 a.m. May 30, 2008
This case really tells who is really for justice and not political expedience.
The ACLU finally made a friend of the court statement when it was rather obvious
the court was going to rule against Texas CPS. Boy does that smack of Political
correctness. Great kudos for the hard work and intelligence of these true
hero's of juris-prudence the lawyers for the FLDS and the judges that
didn't let hatred overshadow their decisions like the stupid first judge
did.I am now sure the constitution works and there is recourse when our rights
are abused.
Fed up with CPS abuse | 8:11 a.m. May 30, 2008
CPS needs to be reigned in. Well-meaning neighbors should talk to the family
before reporting to such an abusive agency rather than assume that a fair
investigation will take place. The trauma and pain they inflict while
"investigating" is tremendous. It causes grief and scars that
don't heal for a very long time. It causes people to mistrust the
government in all its forms and refuse the "help" they offer. How can
you trust the help that comes from an agency who abuses power with little regard
to the damage they cause, all in the name of "protection"?
My experience was with a false allegation in UTAH and I understand this happens all the time in every state. The testimony of an outside observer who knows nothing of the family's situation or their special needs children is taken as gospel (even if they might have ulterior motives or an axe to grind) while the word of the family means nothing - perhaps because they are living differently than what the 20-something, single, inexperienced so-called social worker thinks they should (home school, religion, disorganized house, etc.)
To have a judge uphold this kind of abuse is unconscionable. Do it right!
My experience was with a false allegation in UTAH and I understand this happens all the time in every state. The testimony of an outside observer who knows nothing of the family's situation or their special needs children is taken as gospel (even if they might have ulterior motives or an axe to grind) while the word of the family means nothing - perhaps because they are living differently than what the 20-something, single, inexperienced so-called social worker thinks they should (home school, religion, disorganized house, etc.)
To have a judge uphold this kind of abuse is unconscionable. Do it right!
Charles | 8:16 a.m. May 30, 2008
ACLU where have you been? Someone already did your work protecting the FLDS
children and FLDS mothers so now maybe they could worship their way, like the
book says(The Constitution of the United States).
Texas Wins | 8:20 a.m. May 30, 2008
Does anybody really think that once the folks get their children back that they
will stick around in Texas, only to fight more appeals, more harrassment, and
more investigation?
When these children are safely home, the parents are going to grab their gear and head for the nearest border out of Texas.
The real winner here is the state of Texas... These kind people will be gone to some other place, where a carefully placed blind eye ignores their practices and lifestyle.
Despite any claim to victory by the FLDS faithful, the clearcut victor will be the great state of Texas.
When these children are safely home, the parents are going to grab their gear and head for the nearest border out of Texas.
The real winner here is the state of Texas... These kind people will be gone to some other place, where a carefully placed blind eye ignores their practices and lifestyle.
Despite any claim to victory by the FLDS faithful, the clearcut victor will be the great state of Texas.
Pico | 8:21 a.m. May 30, 2008
Why is it always the person with the most obnoxious silly post feels the need
to capitalize their post. It's a bit like having that crazy street person
shouting at you.
I have to agree with mensem. Having read the pdf that DN posted, i'm suprised there was any dissenting justices. The state had very little evidence and freely admitted they were going after the FLDS religon more than any specific incident of abuse.
I have to agree with mensem. Having read the pdf that DN posted, i'm suprised there was any dissenting justices. The state had very little evidence and freely admitted they were going after the FLDS religon more than any specific incident of abuse.
G | 8:24 a.m. May 30, 2008
Looks like common sense prevailed.
Some deserving person will still probably end up in jail for physical abuse, but the courts have ruled that instilling belief does not itself equate to abuse. This is a good day for religious freedom.
I can hear Utah socialists gnash their teeth from here.
Some deserving person will still probably end up in jail for physical abuse, but the courts have ruled that instilling belief does not itself equate to abuse. This is a good day for religious freedom.
I can hear Utah socialists gnash their teeth from here.
Live and Let Live | 8:25 a.m. May 30, 2008
These girls look forward to getting married early. It's their culture. If
they wanted to leave, they would leave. Not hard to scale the fence. They have
no aspirations for higher learning...just raising children and working in the
garden. And as far as the young men, no one is holding a gun to their heads to
stick around and do construction work.
Aftermath | 8:36 a.m. May 30, 2008
In addition to the trauma imposed on both parents and children, the overzealous
actions by the Texas CPS will probably invalidate efforts to prosecute the real
criminals.
The El Dorado Raid will set relations between the FLDS and "mainstream" society back at least 10 years. Whatever gains have been made have been eradicated in one fell swoop.
The El Dorado Raid will set relations between the FLDS and "mainstream" society back at least 10 years. Whatever gains have been made have been eradicated in one fell swoop.
Just because they don't | 8:38 a.m. May 30, 2008
Know anything else, doesn't mean that they would not want other things!
There are plenty of news reports showing girls that leave this type of community
when they get the chance,
Silver Fox says "YUCK"... | 8:43 a.m. May 30, 2008
HURRAY for the mothers and the children!
Boo for the fathers.
Boo for the FLDS Church.
It is ODD that a group who VIOLATES THE LAWS of our country when it comes to polygamy, now feel that justice owes them so much when it comes to a potential windfall civil suit. Let's say a windfall lawsuit 'screamed' for by the FLDS.
The were dishonest during the initial proceedings in Texas, lied about what they were going to do with the ranch in Texas. In the distant past they blazed a path of lies from from Salt Lake City to Southern Utah, to Arizona to the Jeff's trial.
This Fox is ashamed of the legal system in our country. Not only does it reward liars, but it hurts mothers and children.
"Yucky" is the law!
Boo for the fathers.
Boo for the FLDS Church.
It is ODD that a group who VIOLATES THE LAWS of our country when it comes to polygamy, now feel that justice owes them so much when it comes to a potential windfall civil suit. Let's say a windfall lawsuit 'screamed' for by the FLDS.
The were dishonest during the initial proceedings in Texas, lied about what they were going to do with the ranch in Texas. In the distant past they blazed a path of lies from from Salt Lake City to Southern Utah, to Arizona to the Jeff's trial.
This Fox is ashamed of the legal system in our country. Not only does it reward liars, but it hurts mothers and children.
"Yucky" is the law!
It's far from over | 8:45 a.m. May 30, 2008
The next step is going after the fathers for statutory rape and welfare fraud.
Jeff | 8:46 a.m. May 30, 2008
A victory for due process, A victory for sanity.....however....open your eyes
people...there is TREMENDOUS abuse going on in these communities. Warren Jeffs
is a convicted felon and if those pictures don't convince you nothing will.
I am glad the state of Texas made the correct legal ruling, however, my heart
breaks for what these young women will endure in the future. From a standpoint
of neutrality, there were no winners.
moniker | 8:48 a.m. May 30, 2008
I find it amusing that some think that the FLDS are going to,
"run".
They built a community over a period of years. They aren't any more welcome somewhere else. The Texas Supreme Court just sent a message that they will have the protection afforded all Texas citizens. Lawyers are headed to Texas to offer free or percentage pursuit of civil rights actions against the state. The ACLU finally got on board and will keep future Texas action in their sights. The FLDS have the opportunity to get politically active in their county and get their own political power.
Why would they leave? They have a home and finally, constitutional protection. There could be a few that leave to avoid prosecution, but the majority will stay and fight for their own future. And a lot of Utahns will be helping them.
Nobody "won". The State of Texas and the FLDS now know the limits.
They built a community over a period of years. They aren't any more welcome somewhere else. The Texas Supreme Court just sent a message that they will have the protection afforded all Texas citizens. Lawyers are headed to Texas to offer free or percentage pursuit of civil rights actions against the state. The ACLU finally got on board and will keep future Texas action in their sights. The FLDS have the opportunity to get politically active in their county and get their own political power.
Why would they leave? They have a home and finally, constitutional protection. There could be a few that leave to avoid prosecution, but the majority will stay and fight for their own future. And a lot of Utahns will be helping them.
Nobody "won". The State of Texas and the FLDS now know the limits.
Re: Live and Let Live | 8:25 a.m | 8:50 a.m. May 30, 2008
That is the saddest statement I've ever heard.
"These girls look forward to getting married early. It's their culture."
It's because it's engrained in their minds since birth that they will not gain salvation if they do not participate in this lifestyle.
And you're right, there is no one holding a gun to these kids heads, instead they are in a guard tower with rifles.
"These girls look forward to getting married early. It's their culture."
It's because it's engrained in their minds since birth that they will not gain salvation if they do not participate in this lifestyle.
And you're right, there is no one holding a gun to these kids heads, instead they are in a guard tower with rifles.
On the ladies | 8:52 a.m. May 30, 2008
The ladies DO now know what took the kids away from the compound...religious
bigotry. Perhaps 5 underage girls got pregnant...that is much lower than here
in Atlanta. Prosecute the perverts and not the entire community which is
precisely what happened.
Grandpa Phil | 8:52 a.m. May 30, 2008
I for one am ecstatic about the Supreme Court decision. After reading all of
the briefs and Answers to petitions, I knew it really couldn't go any other
way but it is still nice to see it happen the right way. Perhaps there is hope
for Texas after all. If I was Ms. Voss or a CPS official in a decision making
position, I would be hiring a lawyer right about now because they are definitely
going to need them. The best defense is a good offense. Let the games begin.
In this arena, I will be cheering for the FLDS lions.
avengeance | 8:54 a.m. May 30, 2008
I wouldn't bet for a moment this game is over. There is still much legal
wrangling to be done, much more propoganda to shove in the face of the eager
voyeurs, much more harm to do to citizens that refuse the government kool-aid of
both parents working outside the home to generate tax revenue for an obese
government while same government babysits their children and helps to repeat the
cycle.
It isn't over until every last child is returned.
Doesn't it make you wonder if the fed hadn't been so hell-bent on killing everyone, if Waco might have ended up this way as well?
It isn't over until every last child is returned.
Doesn't it make you wonder if the fed hadn't been so hell-bent on killing everyone, if Waco might have ended up this way as well?
Anonymous | 8:54 a.m. May 30, 2008
FLDS - STOP THIS PRACTICE
Stop what practice?
Teaching the childrento be obedient?
If it is under age marriages you are taliking about then tell it to the rest of the world too. There is NO force in PRIESThOOD. But you must have evicence not just hearsay by some disgrundled Flora or Caroline.
Stop what practice?
Teaching the childrento be obedient?
If it is under age marriages you are taliking about then tell it to the rest of the world too. There is NO force in PRIESThOOD. But you must have evicence not just hearsay by some disgrundled Flora or Caroline.
Utah Resident | 8:55 a.m. May 30, 2008
This case is far from over. Now that the perversion in the FLDS community led by
the convicted felon and confirmed pervert Warren Jeffs is out in the open public
scrutiny will NOT allow this to continue.
Where is the justice for the young girls that are raped by the old men?
Where is the justice for the young boys that are abandoned in the streets?
Where is the justice for blatant welfare fraud that takes place in this community?
Where is the justice for the young girls that are raped by the old men?
Where is the justice for the young boys that are abandoned in the streets?
Where is the justice for blatant welfare fraud that takes place in this community?
Finally | 8:57 a.m. May 30, 2008
Duh, who didn't see this ruling coming. It was a gross misuse of power by
Texas authorities. Very embarassing and scary, especially when they indicated
they were acting becasue of the FLSD belief system.
Anonymous | 9:02 a.m. May 30, 2008
your right slickie willie God is the only one that can mend a broken heart.
Wait till its your wives and kids reassigned.
Grandpa Phil | 9:05 a.m. May 30, 2008
To "on the Ladies", I really get tired of everyone tauting the "5
underaged girls" thing as proof of abuse. The "Department" (CPS)
admitted in court that the 5 underaged girls were between the ages of 16-18.
The legal age to marry in Texas is 16. No one said that any of the
"underage girls" was unmarried. If a married woman at 17 or 18 wants
to have children, that is not child abuse. If a girl is allowed by her parents
to get married at 16 and she wants to have children, that is not child abuse.
remember, until the FLDS got there, the legal age to marry in Texas was 14. Did
anyone ever accuse the husband of a married 14 yr old of rape or child abuse?
Of course not. It wasn't until the FLDS "allegedly" did it that
it became WRONG and deviant. Now, after all the wailing and knashing of teeth
is past, CPS can still not point to or name any girl on the compound who was
12-15 who was pregnant or had children. CPS even admitted in court that they
had no evidence that any of the husbands had ever abused anyone.
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And remember - they aren't dumb. Despite all the jokes and insults, they took on about the worst a mother can face against a much bigger adversary and won. Without a lot of (visible) help from the menfolk. Now that they know what they're capable of, things aren't gonna be the same "back at the ranch".
Put a big ol' "Don't Mess with Momma" sign on that gate.