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Bush meets with First Presidency
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John Lambert | 12:40 p.m. May 29, 2008
To 9:42 commentor:
The story about splitting the congregations down the middle is not true. It is true that Wilford Woodruff tried to get as many church members as did not feel their principals totally violated by it to vote Republican as possible.
However, it is also known by people who study the subject with a goal of truth instead of denouncing the church that the p[ercentage of elective offices in Utah held by Church members has risen since the church entirely withdrew itself from politics.
Anyway, if the church is so pro-Republican as you claim, than why did the First Presidency meet with Bill Clinton?
The story about splitting the congregations down the middle is not true. It is true that Wilford Woodruff tried to get as many church members as did not feel their principals totally violated by it to vote Republican as possible.
However, it is also known by people who study the subject with a goal of truth instead of denouncing the church that the p[ercentage of elective offices in Utah held by Church members has risen since the church entirely withdrew itself from politics.
Anyway, if the church is so pro-Republican as you claim, than why did the First Presidency meet with Bill Clinton?
Steve - Re: GIve it a Rest | 12:46 p.m. May 29, 2008
Hillary won't be President, at least not after this election... it will be
either McCain or Obama, hopefully Obama (most likely Obama is my
guess/prediction). And hopefully she never will be.
But you're right, whoever the next President is they will most likely visit with the LDS Church's first Presidency too at some point and the usual gripes will be made.
But you're right, whoever the next President is they will most likely visit with the LDS Church's first Presidency too at some point and the usual gripes will be made.
Comments continue below
John Lambert | 12:49 p.m. May 29, 2008
I applaud the Deseret News for balanced coverage, and even give it credit for
running so many attacks on what it stands for in these boards.
I think there should be review to see if the criteria for exclusion should be expanded to include those who write baseless lies.
I do not know where people come off with the idea "The Strong LDS are a minority in Utah". I do not believe this is true. Beyond this, I think there is way too much hate, disrespect and vitriole expressed by some members of other faiths in Utah. There are some people who work to build positive, inter-faith dialogue, but unfortunantly there are too many people who keep the Family History library from microfilming reccords, who spend their time denigrating and mocking every action an LDS person makes and demand that everyone change everything they do to accomadate them.
If certain people in Utah would stop changing their positions to make them always as opposed to the LDS church as possible than things might get better.
I think there should be review to see if the criteria for exclusion should be expanded to include those who write baseless lies.
I do not know where people come off with the idea "The Strong LDS are a minority in Utah". I do not believe this is true. Beyond this, I think there is way too much hate, disrespect and vitriole expressed by some members of other faiths in Utah. There are some people who work to build positive, inter-faith dialogue, but unfortunantly there are too many people who keep the Family History library from microfilming reccords, who spend their time denigrating and mocking every action an LDS person makes and demand that everyone change everything they do to accomadate them.
If certain people in Utah would stop changing their positions to make them always as opposed to the LDS church as possible than things might get better.
Steve - Re: Why ONLY the LDS? | 12:53 p.m. May 29, 2008
First, remember that the LDS Church is not just a major Utah/local church...
it's a major GLOBAL church and it's headquarters just so happen to be
in Salt Lake.
So just as the President would single out and visit the Pope while in Rome, they do the same with the LDS Church President. Nothing one-sided or unfair really going on if you ask me. Do you make this same complaint when the President goes to Rome and doesn't visit with leaders of other local churches in the city?
And I think you mean state sponsored church, not religion as your gripe appears to be with favoritism of the LDS Church... not Christianity as a whole.
So just as the President would single out and visit the Pope while in Rome, they do the same with the LDS Church President. Nothing one-sided or unfair really going on if you ask me. Do you make this same complaint when the President goes to Rome and doesn't visit with leaders of other local churches in the city?
And I think you mean state sponsored church, not religion as your gripe appears to be with favoritism of the LDS Church... not Christianity as a whole.
relief work | 12:55 p.m. May 29, 2008
The Church has done so much to help U.S. citizens through the Church's
Humanitarian Aid.
Think of all the stories of those who were helped after Hurricane Katrina.
The President of the United States can visit with people who donate millions of dollars to help U.S. citizens.
RELAX everybody, and just get along.
Think of all the stories of those who were helped after Hurricane Katrina.
The President of the United States can visit with people who donate millions of dollars to help U.S. citizens.
RELAX everybody, and just get along.
Get over yourselves! | 12:57 p.m. May 29, 2008
The First Presidency meets with Democrats too. LOOK IT UP!!!!!!!!! The church
does not get involved with politics in a way that violates anyone's rights
or our laws. They simply teach a specific doctrine, and state their position on
moral issues. This is in no way support to one party or another. Again, LOOK
IT UP! Do your homework before spreading lies.
John Lambert | 12:56 p.m. May 29, 2008
Re, re: Gordon,
It is not that people disliking the president for his position on issues is seen as anti-American. It is that we see the unlimited, unending and unrestrained hate against Bush as un-American.
People go around accusing Bush of intentionally murdering thousands of Americans with absolutely no evidence. People go around spreading theories based on a misconstruction of the facts. People show no respect for the office of the president, and spread defaming speech about him.
I have known people who have claimed the death toll in Iraq exceeds that in Vietnam when in fact about four times as many people were killed in Vietnam in 1968 alone as have been killed in Iraq.
The people who blame Bush for our high gas prices evidently think that the positive economic situation in Asia is all a result of what Bush has done. The reason gas prices were below a dollar in the late 1990s is because the economies of many Asian economies were in shambles.
I am tired of people feeling like the whole world revolves around them. Start caring about all humanity and not just US citizens. Give the guest workers recognition.
It is not that people disliking the president for his position on issues is seen as anti-American. It is that we see the unlimited, unending and unrestrained hate against Bush as un-American.
People go around accusing Bush of intentionally murdering thousands of Americans with absolutely no evidence. People go around spreading theories based on a misconstruction of the facts. People show no respect for the office of the president, and spread defaming speech about him.
I have known people who have claimed the death toll in Iraq exceeds that in Vietnam when in fact about four times as many people were killed in Vietnam in 1968 alone as have been killed in Iraq.
The people who blame Bush for our high gas prices evidently think that the positive economic situation in Asia is all a result of what Bush has done. The reason gas prices were below a dollar in the late 1990s is because the economies of many Asian economies were in shambles.
I am tired of people feeling like the whole world revolves around them. Start caring about all humanity and not just US citizens. Give the guest workers recognition.
What? | 12:57 p.m. May 29, 2008
Man I am truly amazed at the small minded comments on this page. There sure is
a lot of hate in this state. Contention is not part of the gospel.
Doug | 12:59 p.m. May 29, 2008
To why only the LDS
The state of Utah still has a majority of mormons. However, Salt Lake County is less than 50% mormon. Check it out and maybe you will correct your other erroneos thinking also.
To rest of you hate filled souls.
Why does every story get turned into a hate utah, hate mormons story. I feel sorry for people that are so filled with poison that they see no good in Utah or the mormons or anything else in their pathetic, bottom feeding lives.
The state of Utah still has a majority of mormons. However, Salt Lake County is less than 50% mormon. Check it out and maybe you will correct your other erroneos thinking also.
To rest of you hate filled souls.
Why does every story get turned into a hate utah, hate mormons story. I feel sorry for people that are so filled with poison that they see no good in Utah or the mormons or anything else in their pathetic, bottom feeding lives.
John Lambert | 1:02 p.m. May 29, 2008
To Paul in MD:
You fail to realize that it was generally the Republicans who were in favor of what you call "liberal" ideas in the 19th Century. This may explain why many of the advoicates of women's suffrage in Utah became Republicans while B. H. Roberts, the most vocal opponant of women's sufferage in Utah, became a Democrat.
The main reason why church members disliked the Republicans was because it was the Repuiblicans who had put through congress the Edmunds-Tucker act which had the goal of destroying the church, it was the Rebuplicans who had been responsible for putting so many church members, including Lorenzo Snow, in jail, and it was the Republicans who had for so long used a strong federal government to deny the saints their civil rights.
You fail to realize that it was generally the Republicans who were in favor of what you call "liberal" ideas in the 19th Century. This may explain why many of the advoicates of women's suffrage in Utah became Republicans while B. H. Roberts, the most vocal opponant of women's sufferage in Utah, became a Democrat.
The main reason why church members disliked the Republicans was because it was the Repuiblicans who had put through congress the Edmunds-Tucker act which had the goal of destroying the church, it was the Rebuplicans who had been responsible for putting so many church members, including Lorenzo Snow, in jail, and it was the Republicans who had for so long used a strong federal government to deny the saints their civil rights.
Debi | 1:03 p.m. May 29, 2008
President Bush visited President Monson the same way that he would visit the
Pope in Rome. The same way all of the previous presidents have visited when they
come to Utah.
If all of these negative comments are coming from Utah residents why would anyone want to live there?
I think I'll stay in the midwest where there is more sanity.
If all of these negative comments are coming from Utah residents why would anyone want to live there?
I think I'll stay in the midwest where there is more sanity.
Steve-Re: re: Republican 11:55am | 1:06 p.m. May 29, 2008
Are you the same person who has accused me of lying at least twice about being
Republican in threads about Obama very recently? Your words and tone sound the
same. If you are the same person, you sure seem to like going around calling
people liars.
How do you know that person you spoke of here (in this thread) isn't a Republican? Here's some news you apparently aren't aware of: there are LOTS of staunch/loyal Republicans out there who don't like President Bush. It isn't just people of other political parties who hate/dislike him.
Oh, and we don't automatically have to respect the President whoever it is at whatever given time. Respect the authority of the office or the position itself, but do we have to respect the individual as a person too? No. As a person, setting his job asside, we don't HAVE to respect Bush.
You were right about one thing though, Bush as President is a very busy person so of course he doesn't have time to stop and chat with each individual. People should just understand that.
How do you know that person you spoke of here (in this thread) isn't a Republican? Here's some news you apparently aren't aware of: there are LOTS of staunch/loyal Republicans out there who don't like President Bush. It isn't just people of other political parties who hate/dislike him.
Oh, and we don't automatically have to respect the President whoever it is at whatever given time. Respect the authority of the office or the position itself, but do we have to respect the individual as a person too? No. As a person, setting his job asside, we don't HAVE to respect Bush.
You were right about one thing though, Bush as President is a very busy person so of course he doesn't have time to stop and chat with each individual. People should just understand that.
Never met one yet | 1:20 p.m. May 29, 2008
I've noticed that people get very nervous hearing negative comments about
their commander-in-chief.
I've yet to meet a person who is glad to have voted for the wrong person or group.
But in this admission is the first step in the process.
I've yet to meet a person who is glad to have voted for the wrong person or group.
But in this admission is the first step in the process.
Anonymous | 1:30 p.m. May 29, 2008
WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!
aftan | 1:32 p.m. May 29, 2008
One Nation Under God.
RE: re: Republican | 11:55 a.m | 1:41 p.m. May 29, 2008
Believe what you will. I am a registered Republican 30 years, living in a very
Republican congressional district, and yes, I am a
�Bush-hater� as you put it.
I�m just being realistic. People have been too hard hit by
the economy and can�t see why we continue to pay for the
war. The economy has affected not only the low-income workers much to the
detriment of the welfare rolls, but the middle-income workers as well. Credit
is tight, spending is down, the housing market has slumped, construction is
falling off and independent truck drivers can�t compete. I
think you�ll agree that a stable market drives the
satisfaction of most Republicans. If I may be so bold, I predict it will come
down to McCain and Obama, and if so, I think you may be very surprised at how
many Republicans do jump ship next election. I'm looking for consumer
confidence to rise on the news of the changing of the old guard.
Is it too much to ask? | 1:43 p.m. May 29, 2008
In Utah there are: 1. LDS people 2. Those who are not LDS who are of other
faiths or atheist or agnostic & 3. Those who were once LDS, were maybe
brought up LDS but who have 'fallen' (like Richard Dutcher's
pathetic stamp on our state).
To those people who are of other faiths, those people usually respect the fact that they're in a geographically primed area where they're surrounded by LDS people. I wouldn't expect to move to India and go about griping on all Hindus. I wouldn't expect to move to Italy and be the world's most Catholic defiant protester. I'd suggest to those people who live in Utah and who are of other faiths that the general LDS population respects your right to worship as you do.
To those who were once LDS and have gripes with the LDS faith. If you don't like it here for the reason that you're surrounded by LDS people then I suggest you move somewhere else! The situation for you is only going to get worse. That includes Rocky Anderson. "IMPEACH" Rocky! - wait - he's no longer in office already! thank goodness & thank you
To those people who are of other faiths, those people usually respect the fact that they're in a geographically primed area where they're surrounded by LDS people. I wouldn't expect to move to India and go about griping on all Hindus. I wouldn't expect to move to Italy and be the world's most Catholic defiant protester. I'd suggest to those people who live in Utah and who are of other faiths that the general LDS population respects your right to worship as you do.
To those who were once LDS and have gripes with the LDS faith. If you don't like it here for the reason that you're surrounded by LDS people then I suggest you move somewhere else! The situation for you is only going to get worse. That includes Rocky Anderson. "IMPEACH" Rocky! - wait - he's no longer in office already! thank goodness & thank you
comparison | 1:49 p.m. May 29, 2008
Debi 1:03 compares Monson to The Pope.
Sure, Debi.
Whatever you say.
Sure, Debi.
Whatever you say.
owl | 1:49 p.m. May 29, 2008
It would be interesting to see who in this state can spring for 35K per plate.
av4play | 1:54 p.m. May 29, 2008
People criticize and complain that he didn't take the time to shake their
hand. How narrow-minded and shallow can you be.
I have worked personally for two presidents (Republican and Democrat) and I can tell you, that no matter the outcome (shake or no shake) there would be complaints. Had he taken the time to shake their hands, he would have been criticized for all the extra police/security overtime as well as air traffic delays while at the airport (for obvious security concerns[Republican or Democrat].) If he gets right on the plane, as he did he is seen as snubbing those wishing to greet him.
No matter who you are, you can't win with those who wish to find fault.
I have worked personally for two presidents (Republican and Democrat) and I can tell you, that no matter the outcome (shake or no shake) there would be complaints. Had he taken the time to shake their hands, he would have been criticized for all the extra police/security overtime as well as air traffic delays while at the airport (for obvious security concerns[Republican or Democrat].) If he gets right on the plane, as he did he is seen as snubbing those wishing to greet him.
No matter who you are, you can't win with those who wish to find fault.
magnus | 1:56 p.m. May 29, 2008
While I am firmly in the "Iraq was a huge mistake and was largely the Bush
administations fault" camp, I think that too many in this country have cone
insane hating him the way they do.
Bush is not the root of all evil in this world, and he is not really all that different than Presidents we have had in the past. I honestly believe that he has made some good decisions in his last 4 years in office. I also believe that a large portion of his failures are a direct result of surrounding himself with neocon hawkish advisors and trusting their jusdgement over more moderate voices. I think on a personal level Bush really does care and that he is probably a decent guy, he is just not a good president.
The biggest thing that stands out to me is that in large part nearly everything he has tried to do has been a failure. I mean I can only think of two major successes he has had, the No-Child-Left-Behind Act and North Korea. His agendas on Social Security, taxes, immigration, economic policy, general foreign relations, and the war in Iraq have all been abysmal failures.
Bush is not the root of all evil in this world, and he is not really all that different than Presidents we have had in the past. I honestly believe that he has made some good decisions in his last 4 years in office. I also believe that a large portion of his failures are a direct result of surrounding himself with neocon hawkish advisors and trusting their jusdgement over more moderate voices. I think on a personal level Bush really does care and that he is probably a decent guy, he is just not a good president.
The biggest thing that stands out to me is that in large part nearly everything he has tried to do has been a failure. I mean I can only think of two major successes he has had, the No-Child-Left-Behind Act and North Korea. His agendas on Social Security, taxes, immigration, economic policy, general foreign relations, and the war in Iraq have all been abysmal failures.
Registered Republican | 1:57 p.m. May 29, 2008
I am a registered republican, and I am dismayed at how bad of shape our country
is in here at the close of the Bush years. I cannot imagine worse leadership
than what he has displayed. It's well beyond words. He is easily the worst
president in our nation's history and I didn't think it could ever get
any worse than it was under Clinton. Any way you look at it our nation is in
horrible shape right now. It will take decades to recover from the damage Bush
has caused.
RE: Gordon | 2:02 p.m. May 29, 2008
Nicely said!!
Osmond | 2:03 p.m. May 29, 2008
A major global religion? Not so much, the stated Mormon membership (not just
active) is about the same number as the difference in number of votes between
first and second place on the American Idol show.
Not so significant from a global view.
Not so significant from a global view.
observer | 2:03 p.m. May 29, 2008
Isn't it nice we can chat like this?
Dear Anti-Mormons | 2:09 p.m. May 29, 2008
President Bush Rocks and so does the LDS Church! If you hate the Republicans
(Utah's majority), Mormons, and President Bush then feel free to move. We
are not forcing you to live amongst us. There are many states that you would
fit right in. My question to you is why wallow in your misery?
Anonymous | 2:38 p.m. May 29, 2008
The moonbat presence is strong in this thread...
A simple "thank you"?? | 2:39 p.m. May 29, 2008
Seeing as the LDS church has supported relief causes to Hurricane victims,
welfare relief, and any large humanitarian efforts this country has had to
bear......maybe the president was saying, "thank you"
All of your conspirists that think they were plotting their next money making scheme or whatever, you're all just plain crazy. Chill out and go chase some UFOs or whatever you people do.
All of your conspirists that think they were plotting their next money making scheme or whatever, you're all just plain crazy. Chill out and go chase some UFOs or whatever you people do.
Nor Cal | 2:43 p.m. May 29, 2008
What an embarrassment it makes Utah look like a bunch of back water simpletons.
Bush has no credibility he lied about the Iraq invasion, we are experiencing
record deficits, ratting out a CIA agent, the Katrina debacle, unable to get the
Al Qaeda leaders, soaring gas prices and the list continues.
Bonnie | 2:43 p.m. May 29, 2008
I love to see good happen. Pres. Bush and Pres. Monson...what great men! I
honor, respect and love both of them. I'm always grateful for men who
stand for truth and right, inspite of left-wing. One can surely see how evil
can be called good and good evil. The separation of good and evil is sure
becoming more noticeable.
DICK | 2:47 p.m. May 29, 2008
Oh what a great President we have look at the things he has done. Starts a
uneeded war. Price of fuel rises every day. Price of groceries is way out of
wack and yet the majority of Utah still supports this idiot. Makes me wonder who
is the stupidist.
Dear Paul in MD | 2:53 p.m. May 29, 2008
Paul, I've been in the church for nearly 55 years now and experienced over
half century of its history first hand.
Yes! The MormonChurch DID broker a deal with the Republican party of Lincoln (actually Grant was president at the time), to move the State from its strongly Democrat roots to being a Republican majority state... a deal brokered in the famous Mormon/Republican meeting of San Francisco... it's all well documented. So, Hogwash back at ya!
The church didn't go having its wards split into equal political party lines across the territory for nothing. So, Hogwash back at ya!
The church DID, through its local ecclesiastical leaders make a purposeful and concerted effort to have its members conform to the official position... oppose the ERA. I lived in Utah county and was in those meetings that were officially sanctioned by the local leadership and made no bones that they were conveying the will of the church leadership. So, Hogwash back at ya!
Be very careful to take 'official' historical perspectives at face value to the exclusion of those who lived the events... for the victor is wanton to tell history as it really happened... it's not in their best interests.
Yes! The MormonChurch DID broker a deal with the Republican party of Lincoln (actually Grant was president at the time), to move the State from its strongly Democrat roots to being a Republican majority state... a deal brokered in the famous Mormon/Republican meeting of San Francisco... it's all well documented. So, Hogwash back at ya!
The church didn't go having its wards split into equal political party lines across the territory for nothing. So, Hogwash back at ya!
The church DID, through its local ecclesiastical leaders make a purposeful and concerted effort to have its members conform to the official position... oppose the ERA. I lived in Utah county and was in those meetings that were officially sanctioned by the local leadership and made no bones that they were conveying the will of the church leadership. So, Hogwash back at ya!
Be very careful to take 'official' historical perspectives at face value to the exclusion of those who lived the events... for the victor is wanton to tell history as it really happened... it's not in their best interests.
understandable - sort of | 3:01 p.m. May 29, 2008
I can understand the wave of patriotism that swept over this great country
post-9/11.
But based on what we've learned in the last 7 years - I would safely say there are some Bush/Cheney supporters who have clearly gone off the deep end.
But based on what we've learned in the last 7 years - I would safely say there are some Bush/Cheney supporters who have clearly gone off the deep end.
2 "Is it too much to ask? | 1:43 | 3:04 p.m. May 29, 2008
Too [Is it too much to ask @ 1:43 P.M]
Yes, it's too much to ask that I respect my LDS neighbor's right to worship without my complaining about how they worship. They should always check with me and other outsiders to make sure we like their doctrine first.
How dare you ask me to find somewhere else if I am disapointed that I moved to Utah and suprisingly found myself surrounded by smelly Mormons! Or suggest that if I leave the church and no longer agree with the Mormons I live amongst I just let them do their thing and I do mine! Of course I'm going to expect all the Mormons to leave the state or at least stop worshipping in ways I no longer agree with!
Honestly, these people who claim the right to tell the Mormons what they can or can't do bug me. I thought we all agreed the Mormon's were the inlolerant ones!
Yes, it's too much to ask that I respect my LDS neighbor's right to worship without my complaining about how they worship. They should always check with me and other outsiders to make sure we like their doctrine first.
How dare you ask me to find somewhere else if I am disapointed that I moved to Utah and suprisingly found myself surrounded by smelly Mormons! Or suggest that if I leave the church and no longer agree with the Mormons I live amongst I just let them do their thing and I do mine! Of course I'm going to expect all the Mormons to leave the state or at least stop worshipping in ways I no longer agree with!
Honestly, these people who claim the right to tell the Mormons what they can or can't do bug me. I thought we all agreed the Mormon's were the inlolerant ones!
Anonymous | 3:09 p.m. May 29, 2008
I just don't see why Bush would waste his time visiting with the leaders of
a little cult like this, even out of "courtesy". He should be spending
his time with significant organizations...
Ankle Biters Unite | 3:10 p.m. May 29, 2008
I don't agree with President Bush on all of his issues, however I think it
was a nice gesture to meet with the new leaders of the church. It is also nice
to see the 10 ankle biters out again today fulfilling their 10 anti-LDS comments
per day quota.
2 "Why ONLY the LDS? | 11:01 a.m | 3:11 p.m. May 29, 2008
Why only visit with LDS leaders when in SLC?
Are you are aware that SLC is the headquarters for the LDS church? If the President went to Rome and decided while there to visit with the Pope, would you be complaining that he didn't visit with all religious leaders while in Rome?
Did you complain when the Pope met with the President a few weeks ago in Washington, but all religious leaders were not invited to the meeting?
Why do so many DMN readers feel such a need to complain about ANYTHING involving the LDS church? I don't get it.
Are you are aware that SLC is the headquarters for the LDS church? If the President went to Rome and decided while there to visit with the Pope, would you be complaining that he didn't visit with all religious leaders while in Rome?
Did you complain when the Pope met with the President a few weeks ago in Washington, but all religious leaders were not invited to the meeting?
Why do so many DMN readers feel such a need to complain about ANYTHING involving the LDS church? I don't get it.
Re: DICK | 3:12 p.m. May 29, 2008
"Unneeded war" ???? - - - What planet have you been on for the last 7
years? - - - Go live in Iraq! I think it's accurate to say that America
doesn't want your kind anywhere but in Iraq - the heart of "American
haters R' Us"
Dear Registered Republican | 3:15 p.m. May 29, 2008
You're spot on in identifying how much of a disaster the Bush presidency
and 6 years of Republican oligarcy has been to this nation. I only hope you and
other of the same feeling remember a very important thing.
Those who create a problem or walk us into a problem are the least qualified to get us out of those problems. There's too much vested interest or self interest to get past the conflicts of interest for doing so, not to mention the incredible lengths the trouble causers will go to to stall, falter or halt change because saving face is more important than correcting wrongs.
In other words, time to take the 2006 drubbing of the Republican party and finish it in 2008 by voting for a Democrat presidency, and voting as many Republicans out of office as possible and getting the more rational aspects of Democrats back in office to solve problems as only they can now solve them.
In 1994 the Republican party finally allowed itself to be held hostage to the religiously radical wing of its party and put diversionary moralistic agendas ahead of sound governance. I never left the Republican party, it left me.
Those who create a problem or walk us into a problem are the least qualified to get us out of those problems. There's too much vested interest or self interest to get past the conflicts of interest for doing so, not to mention the incredible lengths the trouble causers will go to to stall, falter or halt change because saving face is more important than correcting wrongs.
In other words, time to take the 2006 drubbing of the Republican party and finish it in 2008 by voting for a Democrat presidency, and voting as many Republicans out of office as possible and getting the more rational aspects of Democrats back in office to solve problems as only they can now solve them.
In 1994 the Republican party finally allowed itself to be held hostage to the religiously radical wing of its party and put diversionary moralistic agendas ahead of sound governance. I never left the Republican party, it left me.
Steve - Re: comparison 1:49PM | 3:19 p.m. May 29, 2008
Debi wasn't the only one to compare Monson to the Pope, I also did it.
What exactly do you find wrong with comparing these two church leaders?
Colorado | 3:22 p.m. May 29, 2008
re: Bonnie
You put Bush in the same class as President Monson? You're greatful "for men who stand for truth and right,inspite of left-wing"?
What can I say that would open your eyes? Bush has all but destroyed our Constitution and our economy.
The media, Limbaugh and Hannity included, have done an excellent job in putting up smoke screens and convincing you that "all is well".
Try doing a little research and thinking for yourself.
You put Bush in the same class as President Monson? You're greatful "for men who stand for truth and right,inspite of left-wing"?
What can I say that would open your eyes? Bush has all but destroyed our Constitution and our economy.
The media, Limbaugh and Hannity included, have done an excellent job in putting up smoke screens and convincing you that "all is well".
Try doing a little research and thinking for yourself.
Indiana | 3:23 p.m. May 29, 2008
To all who defend President Bush:
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STANDING UP TO THE HATERS WHO HATE WITH NO PROVOCATION A MAN WHO HAS DONE SO MUCH AND SACRIFICED SO MUCH FOR HIS COUNTRY. PRESIDENT BUSH IS A GOOD MAN.... FIGURE IT OUT!!!!
President Bush takes so much from so many of the American people. He is unjustly hated and blamed for too many things he has no control over. I believe there are some people who just want to hate. Try blaming the ones who deserve it... whatever your beef is. It is not GWB's fault if your sun doesn't shine, if your flowers don't come up and if you can't afford your gas... blame those that won't allow drilling in our own country and keep us dependent on and hostages to foreign entities that they must want to be controlled by!
I am so happy for President Bush (a great maan by the way) to get the chance to meet a Prophet of the Lord Jesus Christ and feel the spirti of that great man. I would have loved to feel the spirit in that room.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STANDING UP TO THE HATERS WHO HATE WITH NO PROVOCATION A MAN WHO HAS DONE SO MUCH AND SACRIFICED SO MUCH FOR HIS COUNTRY. PRESIDENT BUSH IS A GOOD MAN.... FIGURE IT OUT!!!!
President Bush takes so much from so many of the American people. He is unjustly hated and blamed for too many things he has no control over. I believe there are some people who just want to hate. Try blaming the ones who deserve it... whatever your beef is. It is not GWB's fault if your sun doesn't shine, if your flowers don't come up and if you can't afford your gas... blame those that won't allow drilling in our own country and keep us dependent on and hostages to foreign entities that they must want to be controlled by!
I am so happy for President Bush (a great maan by the way) to get the chance to meet a Prophet of the Lord Jesus Christ and feel the spirti of that great man. I would have loved to feel the spirit in that room.
midwestern saying | 3:26 p.m. May 29, 2008
Indiana -
Where I come from we have a saying:
The fish always stinks the worst at the head.
Savvy?
Where I come from we have a saying:
The fish always stinks the worst at the head.
Savvy?
Steve - Re: Osmond 2:03pm | 3:26 p.m. May 29, 2008
Yes, a major global religion... Christianity. The LDS Church is Christian and
that religion is definately a major one worldwide. But a major global CHURCH?
Now, there you might have a point. The LDS Church is indeed quite small
compared to some others around the world. That however doesn't mean their
influence is necessarily insignificant... if it was, would Bush and other
Presidents bother meeting with the LDS First Presidency as often as they do?
deal-making | 3:32 p.m. May 29, 2008
Who really knows what goes on behind closed doors nowadays?
Don't forget George W. Bush favors tax breaks for churches (something I personally would like to do away with)
They were probably striking a deal.
Don't forget George W. Bush favors tax breaks for churches (something I personally would like to do away with)
They were probably striking a deal.
Alex | 3:36 p.m. May 29, 2008
To " 2 "Why ONLY the LDS? "
"Why do so many DMN readers feel such a need to complain about ANYTHING involving the LDS church? I don't get it. "
I wish the Deseret News had it set up so you had to login. That way a poster's identification becomes constant. Its easier to tell whose comments you can take seriously, and which ones are merely a broken record. On other blog sites, you can tell who the trolls are.
I don't know if you've ever seen a professional soccer match where a player attempts to get another player yellow carded. Very often a player who has been tripped, for instance, starts writhing in unimaginable agony on the ground as if they are mortally wounded, only to quickly jump up when the referee either ignores him or yellow cards the perpetrator on it. That is how I think some of the bellyachers act.
"Why do so many DMN readers feel such a need to complain about ANYTHING involving the LDS church? I don't get it. "
I wish the Deseret News had it set up so you had to login. That way a poster's identification becomes constant. Its easier to tell whose comments you can take seriously, and which ones are merely a broken record. On other blog sites, you can tell who the trolls are.
I don't know if you've ever seen a professional soccer match where a player attempts to get another player yellow carded. Very often a player who has been tripped, for instance, starts writhing in unimaginable agony on the ground as if they are mortally wounded, only to quickly jump up when the referee either ignores him or yellow cards the perpetrator on it. That is how I think some of the bellyachers act.
Re: Colorado | 3:40 p.m. May 29, 2008
President Bush is a Texan cowboy beef eating fence post talking Bible reading
straight forward to the point practical logical intelligent witty lively happily
married to a very bright woman man who has put some of his weaknesses like
alcohol behind him, all American enthusiast. He accepts the fact that there are
OBVIOUSLY people on this planet who HATE ALL AMERICANS and who would kill you
and I and themselves in the process. You need to do the eye opening! or were
you not around on 9/11? - What's your alternative regardless? - let the
American hater problem resolve itself? - If we did that we'd all wake up to
radical religious rule and "America" would be led by religious zealots
that kill those who don't accept its faith. - - -
Never Again Vote Dem or Repub | 3:50 p.m. May 29, 2008
All I can say is that all of you Utah Republican/Mormons who lap-up the NeoCon
Kool-Aid had better wake-up "to a since of your aweful situation" as
referenced in the BOM. Unfortunately most of you will get out of bed one day
and realize you are one of the "more part of the righteous" who have
been "seduced"!
magnus | 3:54 p.m. May 29, 2008
RE: Re: Dear Registered Republican
As another Republican dissapointed in Bush I am going ot politely decline your call to support the Democratic Party. From my research the Democrats are no more well equipped to deal with Americas ill's than the Republicans.
My fear is that a Democrat President backed by a Democrat controlled House AND Senate will only lead to the same sort of unchecked governing that allowed the Republicans to do the damage they have done to America. Checks and balances are a good thing.
I used to think fairly highly of McCain. He has a moderate record and a history of working on both sides of the isle to find solutions to problems, sometimes those solutions don't always work out but at least he has proven he can get things done. My fear with him is that he will continue to toe the party line as he has in the last couple of years and the independent McCain is dead and gone.
Thankfully for all of us change is comming, and whether it is a Republican or a Democrat, it's hard to imagine things getting any worse.
As another Republican dissapointed in Bush I am going ot politely decline your call to support the Democratic Party. From my research the Democrats are no more well equipped to deal with Americas ill's than the Republicans.
My fear is that a Democrat President backed by a Democrat controlled House AND Senate will only lead to the same sort of unchecked governing that allowed the Republicans to do the damage they have done to America. Checks and balances are a good thing.
I used to think fairly highly of McCain. He has a moderate record and a history of working on both sides of the isle to find solutions to problems, sometimes those solutions don't always work out but at least he has proven he can get things done. My fear with him is that he will continue to toe the party line as he has in the last couple of years and the independent McCain is dead and gone.
Thankfully for all of us change is comming, and whether it is a Republican or a Democrat, it's hard to imagine things getting any worse.
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No American president has ever had much control over OPEC. No American president has ever had much control over how much oil ANY country uses. American oil companies don't even have much control over those areas.
So, to blame Bush, or any other president, is unrealistically simplistic. All Bush can do is suggest we use less fuel, and suggest to congress that they make it possible for American oil companies to produce more here, and push for more nuclear plants to reduce our need for fossil fuels for electricity production.