Reader comments
Ruling: Some FLDS children must go back; dissent says teenage girls remain at risk
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JND | 9:41 a.m. May 29, 2008
Dear Con Cerned American,
I totally agree with you that our nation is becoming Anti-Christ. After all, what could be more Anti-Christ than a so-called prophet having sex with 12-year old girls?
Have a nice day!
I totally agree with you that our nation is becoming Anti-Christ. After all, what could be more Anti-Christ than a so-called prophet having sex with 12-year old girls?
Have a nice day!
Pray the children will go home | 9:43 a.m. May 29, 2008
Hoping a positive ruling will come out of the court today and the children will
be returned to the parents.
Comments continue below
For the children | 9:50 a.m. May 29, 2008
Why not remove all children in LDS families, where mother is on prozac in Utah?
I am also sure the underage girls who are LDS are having children way under age
as witnessed by LDS social services ads on tv offering them alternatives to
abortion. why is it on these boards one cannot truly express one's opinion,
but must have the Deseret News monitor free speech, one of our basic rights???
How hypocritical of LDS to judge the FLDS, they are Mormon just like US AND I
SUPPORT THEM. I pray each flds child is returned, if any abuse occured,
prosecute yes, but LDS is only concerned that the flds is not confused with flds
for our proselytizing efforts...how pathetic and heartless. From the beginning
those Texas folk were quoted in El Dorado as saying: "That would make a
mighty fine courthouse, " i say sue the State of Texas and Cps extend the
Ranch and vote every last one of them OUT. Idiots who think the flds would
leave their beautiful temple. I wonder how many LDS will leave the church due
to our lack of love and doing nothing to help flds?
Gal50 | 9:56 a.m. May 29, 2008
A two day hearing within a few days of initial seizure can't possible cover
450 children especially when the parents refuse to tell the court the
relationships between the children and adults and where they live. Documents
such as birth certificates were not available. Trust could not be established
due to lying and this made it difficult to tell which information was
believable.
Just a couple days ago, we saw another example of the difficulty of obtaining necessary information when Louisa Bradshaw Jessop stated under oath that basically she didn't know who she lived with.
While it is true that law enforcement typically goes after the men, the women have made their daughters available for abuse. For example, Elissa Wall's mother does nothing to prevent the marriage and probably helped with wedding preparations. The mothers also interfered with the CPS investigation. So, it became necessary for the women to be parted from their children.
It's understandable that the men were willing to leave the ranch because they left the state. The women didn't offer to leave the ranch. Plus, CPS did not have the ability to staff a ranch including complex utility systems within days.
Just a couple days ago, we saw another example of the difficulty of obtaining necessary information when Louisa Bradshaw Jessop stated under oath that basically she didn't know who she lived with.
While it is true that law enforcement typically goes after the men, the women have made their daughters available for abuse. For example, Elissa Wall's mother does nothing to prevent the marriage and probably helped with wedding preparations. The mothers also interfered with the CPS investigation. So, it became necessary for the women to be parted from their children.
It's understandable that the men were willing to leave the ranch because they left the state. The women didn't offer to leave the ranch. Plus, CPS did not have the ability to staff a ranch including complex utility systems within days.
Donn | 9:56 a.m. May 29, 2008
It still not matter what the court says the final word will come from the
Federal courts on what is due process for If the FLDS loses it will go to the
Feds.where the judges are not elected but will go by the constitution so the
Texas court is looking for a way to satisfy the Federal court.If it is appealed
no child can be adoptive out so Texas will be paying for the next few years so
let the children go go after the men who broke the law the children have broken
no laws.
Lilathe | 10:00 a.m. May 29, 2008
Returning the children to their mothers does not necessarily give custody back
to the parents nor does it stop any ongoing investigation. The court can order
the parents not to remove the children and even if they flee, they can be found
and returned.
I mean, seriously, how easy is it to spot someone in a long sleeved pastel dress with black stockings and up-do hair styles? It isn't like they can hide very well now is it?
I mean, seriously, how easy is it to spot someone in a long sleeved pastel dress with black stockings and up-do hair styles? It isn't like they can hide very well now is it?
Re: ConCerned American | 10:07 a.m. May 29, 2008
Constitution?? The Constitution is what says you can't have prayer in
PUBLIC schools. The ten commandments are old testament Jewish property laws are
you Jewish?
Are you Christian? Then you don't even have the old testament. It's new Testament for your group or do you pick and choose whatever fits the situation.
There IS Religious Freedom, There isn't Freedom to tell others they MUST be like you or else.
In this Texas case, someone believed the lies and stories about those "wicked" folks that are NOT like us.
Are you Christian? Then you don't even have the old testament. It's new Testament for your group or do you pick and choose whatever fits the situation.
There IS Religious Freedom, There isn't Freedom to tell others they MUST be like you or else.
In this Texas case, someone believed the lies and stories about those "wicked" folks that are NOT like us.
For the children | 10:07 a.m. May 29, 2008
I see comments on here that are abusive, offensive, off topic, misrepesentative
ALL THE TIME. why did you not put my post on? I was just voicing my
opinion..You utah mormons are too much. when LDS come to our ward from utah or
Idaho, it turns my stomach with the attitude you people have, we lowly converts
are not good enough, for you were born into the church....i want to vomit with
that self righteousness....why not live our religion and allow our fundamentsl
rights of free speech on this board???? You allow constant name calling et al
on these boards, but God forbid if one is to criticize your monitoring or
anything against the LDS church...I am a faithful member and will always be, but
have my own MIND, THANK YOU...sue texas and cps dogs and expand the ranch
bringing in thousands of voters and take over El Dorado, how abou that? Sounds
simple to me. All LDS were for Romney, whose wife gave to planned parrenthood,
(abortion) and he is a good mormon? Pleeeeese. May the Lord Bless the FLDS,
really, LDS and DN believes all the lies against them? what about our own
history?
Ray | 10:07 a.m. May 29, 2008
Any public high school in America might have a pregnant 15-year-old, not just in
school but maybe playing flute in the band. Does acceptance of that fact mean
that the other hundreds of kids in the same school are at imminent risk of harm?
Heck no!
Please Texas Supreme Court make it stop! Give the kids back and let them all just go home!!
Please Texas Supreme Court make it stop! Give the kids back and let them all just go home!!
J-man | 10:09 a.m. May 29, 2008
To Con Cerned American:
If the FLDS wasn't forcing underage girls into marriages with older men for their sexual pleasure they wouldn't have anything to worry about.
And you can blame the ACLU for the rest of your rant not the Texas CPS.
If the FLDS wasn't forcing underage girls into marriages with older men for their sexual pleasure they wouldn't have anything to worry about.
And you can blame the ACLU for the rest of your rant not the Texas CPS.
transplant | 10:21 a.m. May 29, 2008
JDN: "our nation becoming anti-christ"
----------------------
Our nation is neutral towards religion. Whether your christ or their prophet or someone else's guru. We are a nation which tolerates religion. First and foremost we are a secular nation. A nation of laws. Not a theocracy.
----------------------
Our nation is neutral towards religion. Whether your christ or their prophet or someone else's guru. We are a nation which tolerates religion. First and foremost we are a secular nation. A nation of laws. Not a theocracy.
Judy | 10:27 a.m. May 29, 2008
To Lilathe: It is pretty easy for them to hide in parts of Utah and Arizona, as
well as Canada and Mexico, where they can blend in with other sect members. If
they are in Utah or AZ, TX may be able to get them back. In general, Mexico and
Canada make it very difficult to get anyone extradited. Canada is currently
harboring the head of a weird Jewish child abusing sect (physical violence
"to save their souls", not sex) in Israel and blocking efforts to get
him back. I assure you that you could pick him and his burqa wearing wife out
of the crowd, but that doesn't help bring him to justice and it
doesn't stop the abuse of the children by his followers either--only taking
the kids out of the home does that. Sadly, a lot of horrible things are done
to children in God's name. The problem is that it is hard to protect the
children while respecting religions in which child abuse seems endemic to the
belief system, whether they are FLDS, Jehovah's WItnesses or a cultic Ultra
Orthodox Jewish sect.
For the children | 10:33 a.m. May 29, 2008
Thank You DN...for putting my posts on. We are all up in arms about these
beautiful children. THANK YOU. i WAS SEPERATED FROM MY PARENTS AS A CHILD, SO I
DO TAKE THIS SEPERATION OF THE CHILDREN VERY SERIOUSLY. The Lord Bless for your
goodness and kindness to let all opinions be heard. THANKS AGAIN
Anonymous | 10:34 a.m. May 29, 2008
Expanding on Ray's comment. What have they found 5 girls who were pregnant
as teens? As a percentage that is much much lower than the percentage of
African American and Latino girls who become pregnant as teens. I wonder if
Texas is planning to take all of there children.
Sokol | 10:43 a.m. May 29, 2008
This is a total miscarriage of justice. Their
constitutional rights and due process rights were
violated. CPS admitted that they were using the
FLDS belief system as their basis for removal.
They are using the usual cadre of false allegations,
innuendo and assumptions. I know many Americans
dislike their lifestyle, but the issue of violating
these families rights is one for every person to
notice. Generally wealthy, politically connected parents, r friends of CPS will never have to worry abou the Nazi-like,miltaristic attack and removal of their children, only the poor, disenfranchised or religously obscure need to be alarmed at the potential for such a traumatic intrusion by the
state, any state.
constitutional rights and due process rights were
violated. CPS admitted that they were using the
FLDS belief system as their basis for removal.
They are using the usual cadre of false allegations,
innuendo and assumptions. I know many Americans
dislike their lifestyle, but the issue of violating
these families rights is one for every person to
notice. Generally wealthy, politically connected parents, r friends of CPS will never have to worry abou the Nazi-like,miltaristic attack and removal of their children, only the poor, disenfranchised or religously obscure need to be alarmed at the potential for such a traumatic intrusion by the
state, any state.
Christinaq | 10:53 a.m. May 29, 2008
God Bless Texas!! You can't find them with there prairie dresses in a
community of 10,000. Don't let the kids go back. The FLDS worship Warren
Jeffs they feel whats good for the prophet is good for us. I can only imagine
the hurt those little girls went thru on there wedding night. When they had
relations with Warren. Alot of you on here think its a ok.
Sandy & Family | 11:00 a.m. May 29, 2008
You people are blinded. I am a Christian and I can see the reality of this
situation. This is about their religion because they claim to follow the True
Jesus Christ. If you think the antichrist isn't coming soon than you are
wrong. This type of treatment of religion is the antichrist. If you don't
want to face it because you haven't suddenly disappeared yet well you
better get ready because things are getting worse here and your faith will be
tested just like all others who follow our Savior. Your religion will conform
to what antichrist or you will be stamped out. Better strengthen your faith and
stop judging those families,only God knows their hearts not you or I. I pray
that we can take our test as well as they are!
Dave38 | 11:20 a.m. May 29, 2008
Interested persons may wish to read the "Story Graphic" attached to
this article. It is a "Texas Supreme Court Brief" prepared by
attorneys Amy Warr and Robert Doggett. The brief clearly presents reasons why
the Texas CPS broke state law and why the children must be returned. This brief
is comprehensive and excellent.
Ray | 11:28 a.m. May 29, 2008
Yo Christinaq, put down the story book!
The story book was written to make a tidy profit, and it looks like it's working.
The writer is an ex-drug addict who has never been to the YFZ Ranch, and the only pregnant 14-year-old found, turns out to have been a made-up lie by DFS. No pregnant 14-year-olds were found in real life, just in the story.
Put down the story book, it's a story it's not evidence!!!
The story book was written to make a tidy profit, and it looks like it's working.
The writer is an ex-drug addict who has never been to the YFZ Ranch, and the only pregnant 14-year-old found, turns out to have been a made-up lie by DFS. No pregnant 14-year-olds were found in real life, just in the story.
Put down the story book, it's a story it's not evidence!!!
mensem | 11:32 a.m. May 29, 2008
Enforce the laws we have. Through the men in jail who broke the underage
marriage laws, send the police in to investigate any domestic disputes (fake 911
call????!) Arrest the polygamists for polygamy.
This would of not happened if they just enforced the existing laws. But seeing that it did, I am all for due process and it's not right to take these kids away from their mothers just based on a false tip and speculation. That's just unnatural and unjust.
And while I detest the practices of the FLDS, there is a constitution in this country the says something like 'no law respecting religion or prohibitting the free exercise thereof'. Religious peole everywhere need to be careful that we don't condone CPS practices because they'll use the same methods to take your kids when they don't like what you teach them or the way you raise them. There is already an international movement that suggests teaching your children religion is 'abusive'
Think long and hard on this one.. there is more to this than meets the eye...
This would of not happened if they just enforced the existing laws. But seeing that it did, I am all for due process and it's not right to take these kids away from their mothers just based on a false tip and speculation. That's just unnatural and unjust.
And while I detest the practices of the FLDS, there is a constitution in this country the says something like 'no law respecting religion or prohibitting the free exercise thereof'. Religious peole everywhere need to be careful that we don't condone CPS practices because they'll use the same methods to take your kids when they don't like what you teach them or the way you raise them. There is already an international movement that suggests teaching your children religion is 'abusive'
Think long and hard on this one.. there is more to this than meets the eye...
Teacher | 11:48 a.m. May 29, 2008
Let the kids return home! Warren is in jail, the CPS is on the verge of being
punished for their abuse towards the children, and the FLDS have demonstrated
their gentle and industrious nature, not to mention their love towards their
children. I'll bet that they will do their best to obey Texas laws in the
future, and they can certainly be monitored by Texas authorities to ensure their
compliance.
The bottom line is that there is an as yet unproven possibility that a few kids were abused on the ranch, yet there are literally hundreds of kids that are presently being abused by having been ripped from loving family members.
They are now threatened with a pervasive CPS belief system that guarantees that many of them will be subject to teenage unmarried pregnancies, drug use, and a life on the streets. Just look at the statistics on the failures of the Texas foster care system.
Texas has much to gain by confiscating the YFZ ranch. At first I thought this situation was all about child abuse. I know now that money and greed are an important part of the reasoning behind the raid.
The bottom line is that there is an as yet unproven possibility that a few kids were abused on the ranch, yet there are literally hundreds of kids that are presently being abused by having been ripped from loving family members.
They are now threatened with a pervasive CPS belief system that guarantees that many of them will be subject to teenage unmarried pregnancies, drug use, and a life on the streets. Just look at the statistics on the failures of the Texas foster care system.
Texas has much to gain by confiscating the YFZ ranch. At first I thought this situation was all about child abuse. I know now that money and greed are an important part of the reasoning behind the raid.
Too "JND | 9:41 a.m." | 12:37 p.m. May 29, 2008
I think [Con Cerned American] was concerned about protections written into the
constuttion being diminished by this raid... not sex with 12 year-olds.
Not all individuals were involved in underage-sex. CPS's presumtion that all resident's of the Ranch were guilty of abuse or would someday become involved in abuse, was the problem. That's not the way our legal system works.
I think it's clear now that Texas CPS ignored some people's constitutional rights in this case (the courts now agree on this). That some people continue to applaud Texas's trampling of constitutional rights is reason for concern.
PS/ I find it interesting that so many people feel the need to exagerate to make their point. It started out "Underage girls marrying older men", then "I read an article about a 16 year old marrying a 19 year-old", next thing you know we see comments like "14 year-olds marrying 50 year-olds", now JND stretches it to 12 year-olds, and I've heard many comments about 60 year-old men (though I've never seen anything to support that rumor).
This is how bogus rumors get started. One person exagerates the truth and before you know it people believe and even stretching that!
Not all individuals were involved in underage-sex. CPS's presumtion that all resident's of the Ranch were guilty of abuse or would someday become involved in abuse, was the problem. That's not the way our legal system works.
I think it's clear now that Texas CPS ignored some people's constitutional rights in this case (the courts now agree on this). That some people continue to applaud Texas's trampling of constitutional rights is reason for concern.
PS/ I find it interesting that so many people feel the need to exagerate to make their point. It started out "Underage girls marrying older men", then "I read an article about a 16 year old marrying a 19 year-old", next thing you know we see comments like "14 year-olds marrying 50 year-olds", now JND stretches it to 12 year-olds, and I've heard many comments about 60 year-old men (though I've never seen anything to support that rumor).
This is how bogus rumors get started. One person exagerates the truth and before you know it people believe and even stretching that!
SLIPPERY-SLOPE | 12:37 p.m. May 29, 2008
Continuation from my previous comment:
QUESTION
WHY SHOULD THE FLDS CHILDREN SHOULD BE SENT BACK HOME?
(X) Because, TEXAS CPS PROBABLE CAUSE IS A SLIPPERY-SLOPE CAUSE, A FALLACY.
(X) Because TEXAS CPS belief is a slippery-slope argument, a fallacy.
(X) Because Texas CPS "a priory probability is zero," or a fallacy; This case is both: (a) not about polygamy slippery slope and (b) about polygamy slippery slope argument, a fallacy.
* DISCLAIMER: Continuation of my literary work/efforts...fact/fiction...
quasi-fact/quasi-fiction...draft...outline...etc.
Authorship/Moral Rights: Debater or FALLACY HUNTER
SIGNED: RECKIPS
=
QUESTION
WHY SHOULD THE FLDS CHILDREN SHOULD BE SENT BACK HOME?
(X) Because, TEXAS CPS PROBABLE CAUSE IS A SLIPPERY-SLOPE CAUSE, A FALLACY.
(X) Because TEXAS CPS belief is a slippery-slope argument, a fallacy.
(X) Because Texas CPS "a priory probability is zero," or a fallacy; This case is both: (a) not about polygamy slippery slope and (b) about polygamy slippery slope argument, a fallacy.
* DISCLAIMER: Continuation of my literary work/efforts...fact/fiction...
quasi-fact/quasi-fiction...draft...outline...etc.
Authorship/Moral Rights: Debater or FALLACY HUNTER
SIGNED: RECKIPS
=
Why | 12:46 p.m. May 29, 2008
Stop there? All the reasons given for Texas' action against the FLDS can
be made for any number of religions. I'm sure abuse exists in the Baptist,
Catholic, Islamic etc communities. And I'm sure the various states where
these denominations reside can benefit from the comfiscation and resale or use
of their children and properity. I'm thankful that Texas has shown us the
way. There's plenty of profit for all here.
Grandpa Phil | 12:48 p.m. May 29, 2008
Uhm, JND, please site the source of your accusation that jeffs ever had sex with
a 12 yr old girl. The legal authorities can then use that seemingly lost bit of
information to make a case against him. As of yet, he stands convicted only of
abetting in the rape of a 14 yr old but encouraging her to marry a 19 yr old
cousin. Then, when the two had sex, he became an accomplice to rape. You seem
to have a far better source of information if you have KNOWLEDGE of him actually
having sex with a 12 yr old. Oh, kissing isn't sex, no matter how
offensive we all found it. If kissing was sex the jails would be overflowing.
If, however, your accusation was garnered from sensationalized media hype or
someone else's wild accusation, please keep your accusations to yourself
and stick to the facts. You are not helping anyone by throwing such comments
into the innuendo hopper. Both your ignorance and your bigotry are showing and
neither looks good on you.
conradmex | 12:54 p.m. May 29, 2008
They are right, religious freedom and civil rights are a thing of the past.
FLDS today and someone else tomorrow. Christ is not wanted in the USA and that
is clear.. This is only the beginning and other groups will follow..
Texas is ignoring the lawful process and it just is a question of who they decide to pick on after this.
They have no plans of giving the children back and that is obvious..
Sorry, but I for one have lost faith in the USA.
Texas is ignoring the lawful process and it just is a question of who they decide to pick on after this.
They have no plans of giving the children back and that is obvious..
Sorry, but I for one have lost faith in the USA.
Grandpa Phil | 1:02 p.m. May 29, 2008
Thanks Teacher, Well said. Refreshing to hear a clear and thoughtfully
presented argument. Your comments were "right on".
Grandpa Phil | 1:06 p.m. May 29, 2008
Uhm, "SLIPPERY SLOPE" AKA: RICKIPS, your meds are wearing off. Push
yourself slowly AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD and take them now. We would all
appreciate it and we could then get back to the subject at hand.
Re 12:37p on the 29th | 1:38 p.m. May 29, 2008
Too "JND | 9:41 a.m." | 12:37 p.m. May 29, 2008
Can you please tell me why Dan Barlow has children 4-13 years old with one of his wives and he is currently 76 years old. He was a father of 3 children during the "Short Creek" incident. He has been making babies for nearly 60 years. How many children does he have?
How old is his "wife" that gave birth to the ones currently in Texas State custody?
Changes in his home life happened in 2004 when sect leader Warren Jeffs excommunicated Barlow, his son and 18 others. He has been "repenting from afar" since 2004 and only recently saw his children because of the courts.
Can you please tell me why Dan Barlow has children 4-13 years old with one of his wives and he is currently 76 years old. He was a father of 3 children during the "Short Creek" incident. He has been making babies for nearly 60 years. How many children does he have?
How old is his "wife" that gave birth to the ones currently in Texas State custody?
Changes in his home life happened in 2004 when sect leader Warren Jeffs excommunicated Barlow, his son and 18 others. He has been "repenting from afar" since 2004 and only recently saw his children because of the courts.
Supreme Court Decision | 1:44 p.m. May 29, 2008
The Supreme Court is making one of two decisions:
1. Continue the law suit to take the children away permanently from the parents with the children in parents custody,or,
2. Continue the law suit to take the children away permanently from the parents with the children in CPS custody.
3. Either way the lawsuit continues, the children and mothers must remain in Texas, and the DNA results will come back.
The total, long term, well being will be considered in determining permanent custody NOT JUST IMMEDIATE PHYSICAL well being.
Parents who attempt to flee the state or the country in defiance of at court order which is certain to be issued before they get the children back will become fugitives with the U.S. government tracking them down and bringing them back.
FLDs parents will not WIN - no matter which way the supremen court rules.
Investigation and felony criminal charges, where, felony child rape or felony bigamy has been committed will follow.
The only question is will CPS be able to hold the children hostage and ransom the parents for evidence while the trial continues or will they have go out and collect evidence the old fashion way.
1. Continue the law suit to take the children away permanently from the parents with the children in parents custody,or,
2. Continue the law suit to take the children away permanently from the parents with the children in CPS custody.
3. Either way the lawsuit continues, the children and mothers must remain in Texas, and the DNA results will come back.
The total, long term, well being will be considered in determining permanent custody NOT JUST IMMEDIATE PHYSICAL well being.
Parents who attempt to flee the state or the country in defiance of at court order which is certain to be issued before they get the children back will become fugitives with the U.S. government tracking them down and bringing them back.
FLDs parents will not WIN - no matter which way the supremen court rules.
Investigation and felony criminal charges, where, felony child rape or felony bigamy has been committed will follow.
The only question is will CPS be able to hold the children hostage and ransom the parents for evidence while the trial continues or will they have go out and collect evidence the old fashion way.
Chris | 3:12 p.m. May 29, 2008
It is ABOUT TIME some one with half a brain did something right.
Thank you Texas Supreme Court.
Thank you Texas Supreme Court.
Golf Clap | 3:14 p.m. May 29, 2008
Congratulations, Texas Supreme Court, for standing up for the rights of an
unpopular group.
However, the devil is in the details, and I've yet to see what those are.
However, the devil is in the details, and I've yet to see what those are.
enough | 3:15 p.m. May 29, 2008
RELEASE THE PRISONERS !!!
Mike Richards | 3:17 p.m. May 29, 2008
Thank God that there are people in authority in Texas who can read the
Constitution and who can base legal decisions on the Constitution.
Now, after the children are returned to their families, perhaps the Texas authorities can prosecute the people who removed those children from their families with the same vigor that they want to prosecute the 'crimes' against those children.
We are a nation of laws. Primarily, those laws protect us from the Government, and secondarily, those laws protect us from each other. When the Government runs unconstrained, everyone looses.
Fix the problems in Government before letting the Government fix the problems in society.
Now, after the children are returned to their families, perhaps the Texas authorities can prosecute the people who removed those children from their families with the same vigor that they want to prosecute the 'crimes' against those children.
We are a nation of laws. Primarily, those laws protect us from the Government, and secondarily, those laws protect us from each other. When the Government runs unconstrained, everyone looses.
Fix the problems in Government before letting the Government fix the problems in society.
Welcome Home | 3:16 p.m. May 29, 2008
It may not be as perfect as the state of Texas would want, but it's YOUR
home. Welcome home, kids. Moms, hug them tighter tonight.
Ing | 3:18 p.m. May 29, 2008
I sure hope they collect evidence the old-fashioned way...and make sure
it's *actual* evidence, not just their opinions about the FLDS belief
system.
Regarding a couple of comments back in the thread... What does Dan Barlow being 76 have to do with anything? There's no law or moral prohibition against having children when you're over a certain age. If you're asking what age Barlow's bride(s) in Texas were, that's a fine question; we'd all be interested to know.
Back toward the beginning of the comments, someone was mentioning that there was no reasonable way the CPS could gather enough information on several hundred recalcitrant subjects to satisfy the requirement of providing evidence to justify contiuning custody within 14 days of removing the children... I can't remember whether the commenter was defending the CPS or not, but that circumstance points out again how overreaching and underthought the CPS's actions were.
Looks like unless there's a lot of new evidence that no one (including the court) has seen before, the only reasonable conclusion is that the Texas CPS made a huge mistake, bit off more than it could chew, and violated the rights of a lot of people in the process.
Regarding a couple of comments back in the thread... What does Dan Barlow being 76 have to do with anything? There's no law or moral prohibition against having children when you're over a certain age. If you're asking what age Barlow's bride(s) in Texas were, that's a fine question; we'd all be interested to know.
Back toward the beginning of the comments, someone was mentioning that there was no reasonable way the CPS could gather enough information on several hundred recalcitrant subjects to satisfy the requirement of providing evidence to justify contiuning custody within 14 days of removing the children... I can't remember whether the commenter was defending the CPS or not, but that circumstance points out again how overreaching and underthought the CPS's actions were.
Looks like unless there's a lot of new evidence that no one (including the court) has seen before, the only reasonable conclusion is that the Texas CPS made a huge mistake, bit off more than it could chew, and violated the rights of a lot of people in the process.
just the beginning... | 3:20 p.m. May 29, 2008
This is just the first step in restoring the wrongs that have been done to these
families. Texas needs to open up its wallet and compensate these families for
the torture they have endured at the hands of lawless government officials!
Moreover, criminal charges need to be brought against CPS officials that have
overstepped their authority!
Lesson Learned | 3:22 p.m. May 29, 2008
I only hope that the FLDS have learned a lesson from all of this and that they
will quickly and officially abandon their practice of forced arranged marriages
of underage girls.
Interloper | 3:23 p.m. May 29, 2008
Let's get the worst misinformation out of the way first. Child custody is a
civil, not criminal matter. The decision to be made by the Supreme Court of
Texas about whether some or all the children should remain in state custody does
not have criminal law implications. Any criminal cases that arise due to child
sexual abuse will be separate.
The mothers' attorneys felt they had to file a pleading in response to CPS' amended complaint and supporting evidence. However, the quick and dirty effort by these legal aid lawyers is a waste of time. Hardly anything in their response addresses the actual issues. Of most importance, CPS' mission is not to conduct criminal investigations of adults, but to protect children. So, removing the children was in keeping with its mission. Difficulty arose because of the number of children hidden behind the high compound walls. Remedies will be fashioned that allow fit parents to regain custody of their children, but rushing them back to adults who have not been vetted would be a failure to adequately protect these youngsters.
The mothers' attorneys felt they had to file a pleading in response to CPS' amended complaint and supporting evidence. However, the quick and dirty effort by these legal aid lawyers is a waste of time. Hardly anything in their response addresses the actual issues. Of most importance, CPS' mission is not to conduct criminal investigations of adults, but to protect children. So, removing the children was in keeping with its mission. Difficulty arose because of the number of children hidden behind the high compound walls. Remedies will be fashioned that allow fit parents to regain custody of their children, but rushing them back to adults who have not been vetted would be a failure to adequately protect these youngsters.
THANK YOU ACLU !!!!! | 3:28 p.m. May 29, 2008
I knew the ACLU would get this all straitened out!
Anonymous | 3:27 p.m. May 29, 2008
Justice! Now it's time to disbar that self confessed "backwoods"
judge.
CPS=Nazis | 3:27 p.m. May 29, 2008
You don't committe 450 wrong to make one right.
Re: just the beginning... | 3:29 p.m. May 29, 2008
Bleeding the beast, Texas style.
Warren, Merrill, Willie and the rest of the gang will be able to buy even fancier SUVs.
But the women and children won't get a penny.
As it should be in Uncle Warren's neighborhood.
Warren, Merrill, Willie and the rest of the gang will be able to buy even fancier SUVs.
But the women and children won't get a penny.
As it should be in Uncle Warren's neighborhood.
kerry_rutz | 3:30 p.m. May 29, 2008
Well, there it is. I'm sure that each and every one of those teen-aged
daughters is gonna get a great big hug by their daddies (if they know who their
daddies are) when they get home. And tomorrow they'll all be shipped off to
marry some 75-year-old guy in Bountiful, Canada or Mexico or Hilldale.
JND | 3:33 p.m. May 29, 2008
Hey polygamy lovers! It looks like you've won. Congratualtions to all of
you.
COSMO | 3:38 p.m. May 29, 2008
Truly, the only rational thing that the court could have done!
Steve B | 3:38 p.m. May 29, 2008
This is a win for every family in America. When they can take your children away
because the Gestapo in another state calls in a hoax, or because your neighbor
down the street has done something wrong and you live on the same street, then
the Constitution becomes meaningless. On that day, we had better start writing
Amerika and saying, "Hello Comrade!"
realitycheck | 3:41 p.m. May 29, 2008
well - looks like the kids are going back to the "ranch". And the men
have had lots of practice on the computer lately putting posts on here.
child porn sites should have a lot more material in the next few weeks...
child porn sites should have a lot more material in the next few weeks...
baptists to the resuce | 3:42 p.m. May 29, 2008
I am no polygamy lover but....
Maybe the State could bring back those New Baptist Church buses and the Baptists could escort the kids back to the ranch?
On a more serious note, did the New Baptist Church become accomplices to the crimes that the State of Texas will undoubtedly be sued for?
Thins that make you go hmmmmm.......
Maybe the State could bring back those New Baptist Church buses and the Baptists could escort the kids back to the ranch?
On a more serious note, did the New Baptist Church become accomplices to the crimes that the State of Texas will undoubtedly be sued for?
Thins that make you go hmmmmm.......
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