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Charges are expected against FLDS officials

Published: Tuesday, May 27 2008 12:02 a.m. MDT

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Angry Dad

re:Mad Granny

"Maybe the way that this was handled was a little rough"

a little rough? kids ripped away from loving mothers, and sent to an abusive foster system?

"how long do you think it would be before they all were moved somewhere else ?"

I thought that this was america. I can move to anywhere I choose. Or from another perspective, CPS can make you move anywhere it chooses.

"It would break my heart to if I thought any child was made to submit to these dirty old men."

So this is the only kind of abuse that would break your heart? How about children being abused by CPS and foster care - catching diseases, losing their mother's milk, separated from siblings, subject to underage unmarried pregnancy in foster care, etc. etc?

to wrz

"If the law was changed, FLDS should follow the new law. But Texas can't prosecute marriages that were performed when the old law was in effect."

Quite obviously, the FLDS don't care about following the law when it comes to marriage or child abuse.

Your assumption that the FLDS would stop performing these marriages simply because the law was changed has no basis in reality.

The FLDS will do whatever their "prophet" tells them to do, even if he's already been convicted and sent to prison for performing these underage marriages.

That's why they need to be stopped.

Re: J-man

They don't tell the women that it's about satisfying their sexual pleasure. The women believe that the men are "called of God" to do it and therefore they are fulfilling their duty. They are doing it for righteousness.

But of course Warren Jeff's knows better than that. I feel for him because he is now busted and before long these women and children are going to have their eyes opened and then he will have to figure out how to explain he revelations.

Ekim

re Angry Dad

wah wah wah wah

Too "Mad Granny | 11:03 a.m"

You may be right that if Texas had handled this by legal means the FLDS may have moved the kids... But that doesn't justify ignoring the constitution.

The protections outlined in the Constitution are not conditionally granted depending on how bad you want to get somebody, or how convenient it is to follow them.

Everyone in law enforcement knows the inconvenient truth that the constitution sometimes makes it harder to do their job. That doesn't justify Texas deciding all those pesky protections don't apply in this case because what they were doing was "The right thing" and go runing in with tanks, guns, swat-teams and a bogus warrant yelling, "Don't mess with Texas"!

Just because you are convinced you are "right" doesn't null and void the Constitution. Sometimes bad-guys get away becasue the constitution got in the way.

I think they could have done this without all the macho grand-standing and "Don't mess with Texas" chants whenever faced with questions about why they decided to overstep their bounds and take all kids without evidence that specifically indicated they were underaged or endangered.

We need to follow rule-of-law.

re: angry dad

I agree!

hey

watch 20/20 tonight!!!!! FLDS that don't have televisions...go to the abc website and watch it there.

ooops

the polygamy special is on 48 hours...cbs-sorry

48 hours tonight!

they ask willie jessop about any underage marriages, he says; "not that I know about" hahahahaha

Grandpa Phil

To "Mad Granny", "a little rough" in no way describes what CPS did to these children and mothers. They have been traumatized beyond measure and that abuse will continue as long as the children are in the hands of CPS. I thought we were in America and had the right to move anywhere we want - that is, unless you are under the control of CPS and they decide where and when. Everyone keeps harping about all of the abuse these children experience under the hand of all of these "dirty old men" but CPS has failed to document any of that. If it was out there and was that prevelant, wouldn't CPS have documented it in Court by now if for no other reason than to justify their actions somehow? WHere are the charges? If anyone broke the law, CHARGE somebody and get them out of there; however, return the children to their mothers before more harm than good is done by CPS.

Isn't it ironic?

I think it's very ironic that one of the main claims of abuse from Texas CPS was that people in the YFZ Ranch (especially children) were cut off from the outside (no cable TV, not news papers, no internet, etc)... So what is the first thing Texas does when they take the 450+ kids away from their opressors??? Take away their cell-phones and isolate them! Isn't that exactly what they were accusing the abusive parents of doing?

Doesn't anybody see a problem with that?

If they were so cut off from the outside... Where did they get the cell phones?

Especially disturbing is... Texas misrepresented the reason for taking all cell-phones from FLDS people, saying it was because they may find out what to say from their leaders, when it is more than obvious they only acted when some FLDS people contacted the media using their cell phones to report the abhorant conditions in Texas custody.

What right does Texas have to take away ANYBODY's cell phone who has not been charged with a crime? To isolate them, to prevent them from communicating whith lawyers, media or whoever they want to?

And yet, many keep saying, "Way to go Texas"!

Now we know

"not that I know about"

What a weasel answer from Willie Jessop. This is a very tight community. Does Willie really expect us to believe that if there was even one underage marriage he wouldn't know about it?

He knows that there are underage marriages, so he answers with the standard "I don't know" answer, so there won't be any video proof that he was lying when the truth comes out.

Silver Fox says...

Re: Listen | 8:51 a.m. May 27, 2008

This my second attempt to respond to your post. I guess the monitors have it in for Silver Fox, or better yet, comments are allowed, but not discussion.

Polygamy may be spoken of in the bible, however I'm not sure that is the answer. From whom did the FLDS receive authority to practice polygamy.

Polygamy is tough to understand among the LDS prior to the manifesto. Please don't tell me that after the manifesto it comes from Warren Jeffs.

chartelle

I started my blog on behalf of FLDS right after the state's action. I am pentecostal, not mormon. I am not so much a lover of FLDS as I am a lover of the constitution. Any action, under color of law, should begin with an investigation into a suspected wrongdoing...and,then,obtain admissible evidence that may or may not support a prosecution.The latter would best be determined through the mechanism of a grand jury proceeding.

What has happened in this case(in my opinion)has been that CPS has abused the statute(Family Code 262.201) under which they can operate with a much lower threshold of proof than is ordinarily required of either a civil or criminal case. I suppose the
legislature trusted that CPS officials would use that statute with integrity - and in a reasonable and prudent manner to achieve the objective of intervening to protect the health and safety of a child. This case, in particular, proves that such legislative trust was misplaced. CPS has been in a conspiracy with other law enforcement agencies to storm that compound using the pretext of seeking a captive minor - which they knew to be a hoax.

R

//These men should be prosecuted! //

Which men? Got any names?

//Time to shut the religious prison down.//

You have an odd definition of "prison".

//take action against both ordinary and serial polygamy. Serial polygamy is a rising menace in which children become pawns. //

Good luck with that, since it means all but eliminating legal divorce.

//It wouldn't be a bit surprising, to learn that some of these bloggers are the child abusers //

Keep telling yourself that; the facts are otherwise.

//The child rapists will celebrate and the little girls, who will to become their child brides, will be groomed to be their sex slaves.//

And your evidence of that is...?

//Why not use it?//

You want illegally obtained evidence to be admissible? When such a precedent can have disastrous effects for the civil liberties of all Americans?

//How can anyone justify a 14 y/o girl marrying a 50+ y/o man?//

Which marriage are you referring to?

//how long would it be before they were moved somewhere else ?//

Who the heck cares?

//We need to follow rule-of-law. //

If only the rabidly anti-FLDS people would realize that!

Stop it now!

This inbreeding has to STOP!

chartelle

PROTECTION OF THE CHILDREN?

All of the state's grievous actions in it's gestapo
tactics, and justifications for such actions, has been touted as doing so to "protect the children".

Regardless of the ages of those mothers(or fathers), those children were secure, sheltered and living in an environment of love and happiness.
When the state tore those children away from
their parents, they could not possibly process or
understand what was happening to them. Most
will feel that they have done something wrong
...and will feel the anguish of guilt and fear in
being separated from that bonding. With a strange environment the child is even more frightened and confused.

Finally,it is reported by the mental health workers that, instead of trying to comfort those children, the behavior of the CPS staff toward those children and mothers is unbelievably mean, uncaring and nasty. They are being treated as inmates in a maximum security prison.

Is this child protection?

John Lambert

If the person who mentioned "sexually molested" meant the pictures of Warren Jeffs kissing the girl, I think they are overstating the case. Such kissing of a 12-year-old is not a behavior I would condone on the part of a 49-year-old, and if I ever have a daughter I would definantly not tolerate any adult man kissing her that way when she is still a minor.
Still, I do not think the picture alone could prove a case for sexual molestation, although it would go a long ways towards getting a jury to convict.
I am more worried that the nature of the way the warrant was obtained will disqualify the evidence found in the raid.
The problem that Texas will face, as Utah and Arizona have, is it is hard to prosecute those who have sexual relations with minors when neither the minor nor the minor's parents feel that a crime has been committed.

John Lambert

To John B:
The women know that these men are already married. The FLDS hold that to recieve full exaltation a man must have three wives. This, personally I hold to be false doctrine, but to deal with them you have to realize they hold this view.

chartelle

PROTECTION OF THE CHILDREN?

The state's grievous tactics and actions has been touted as doing so the "protect the children".

Regardless of the age of those mothers(or fathers)the children were secure, sheltered and living in an environment of love and happiness. They were bonded to their mothers,and/or mothers as the case may be.

When the state tore those children away from their parents, they could not possibly process or understand what was happening to them. Most will feel that they must have done something wrong..and will feel the anguish of guilty and fear. Add to that a strange and unfamiliar environment and the child is even more frightened and confused.

Then, reports come out from the mental health workers that the CPS staff is treating those mothers and children unbelievably cruel and nasty...as though they are inmates in a maximum security prison. One girl's baby was kidnapped as soon as she delivered - with no chance to bond with that baby...or breast feed the infant.

Is this what CPS considers to be protection of the children?

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