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FLDS criminal cases building

Charges are expected against FLDS officials

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  • Anonymous
    June 1, 2008 9:15 a.m.

    As a child, I lived in a community that had polygamists. My girlfriend in school was married off when she was 14 and was pregnant soon after. I felt so helpless to do anything for her when she was so obviously unhappy. Ultimately, she was forbidden contact with any of her schoolmates and was withdrawn from school.

    Because of this experience, I find myself believing what the authorities have found. I know my girlfriend was abused and I doubt that anything has changed in the last few years. The brides keep getting younger and the boys are thrust into outside society ill prepared to function and fearful if they say anything there will be horrible retaliation.

    I believe when the authorities begin a full investigation, they will discover a large number of FLDS members who have disappeared over the years.

    Don't pre-judge until all the facts are in. FLDS is a sex cult in my opinion.

  • real
    May 31, 2008 8:13 a.m.

    I beleive that some of the under age girls, while being protected by CPS, have allready began to open up and are telling of abuse by guess who? Mr. W. Jessop, should soon begin running and hiding with M.J. Arrests are coming soon. CPS gave you FLDS men a chance to run and hide, but you instead became caught up in the notion that the state would return your under age sex slaves and tell you "never mind, carry on", but look at the bright side, you may receive a cell right next to Mr. Jeffs, and get full protection from your worst enemies,- the other men in prison! Just like with Jeffs, the govt. will stop at nothing to get justice. DNA will confirm that after Jeffs arrest, some others are guilty of continuing the child rape, defenders beware!!!

  • TO FLDS GIRL
    May 30, 2008 9:16 a.m.

    Hey...get your facts straight..and dont hide behind FLDS girl when it should be FLDS guy...not only that do your research. WILLIE ?? is that you?

  • FLDS girl
    May 30, 2008 7:28 a.m.

    To: Enquiring Minds want to know | 10:22 a.m. May 29, 2008

    You clown, Willie Jessop and William Timpson are two different people. Get your facts straight please.

  • The devil own
    May 29, 2008 4:18 p.m.

    FLDS will be left alone when they quit making slaves out of women and children, and let the FLDS women do whatever they please and marry whoever they please. You FLDS men are sex abusers, cowards and frauds.

  • Enquiring Minds want to know
    May 29, 2008 10:22 a.m.

    I google'd in Willie Jessop aka Willie Timpson...very interesting reading for anyone who would like more info on him.

  • Sharon
    May 29, 2008 8:25 a.m.

    J-man...I totally agree with you...That Willie is about as phony as a three dollar bill in my books.Seeing that all reply in the same way and tone,
    I have to wonder if all the FLDS members have regular weekly meeting instructing them how to answer questions.
    INTERLOPER...One can only guess how many others are in hiding with the Father of the Year..Merrill Jessop. He and his wife both need prison time for giving their little girl over Warren Jeffs.

  • Interloper
    May 28, 2008 8:34 p.m.

    Perhaps some FLDS members can help with a couple of questions. How many of the children are Willie Jessop's? How old are the mothers? Will Willie being joining Merril in hiding soon?

  • Shocking
    May 28, 2008 3:25 p.m.

    Who could believe that Willie Jessop was angry? What's the big deal? Only 400+ children were taken away, it's not like they are important or anything.

  • Willie Jessop
    May 28, 2008 10:23 a.m.

    Boy, they got the best of him on 48 hours, didn't they?! It was obvious he is not accustomed to being questioned, and that he has some anger issues! I think the FLDS attempted PR campaign is quickly coming undone...

  • J-man
    May 28, 2008 9:52 a.m.

    To Sharon:

    I found Willie's interview comical. He looked like a poster child for anger management.

    And don't expect a straight answer from the FLDS on anything. So far, all we get from them is "I can't recall", "Not as far as I know", or the proverbial "I've never seen it"... ha

  • Sharon
    May 28, 2008 8:25 a.m.

    Oh, how I wish, Peter Van Sant would of had more time interviewing Big Willie on 48 hours.Looked like to me,Big Boy was about ready to blow a gasket ! Big O' Willie refused to look at the BISHOP'S List, confirming underage marriages to men old enough to be the little girls great-grandpas'. I have to wonder about Willie Jessop, how many wives does he have, and are any of them little girls? Can anyone answer that question for me?

  • Grandpa Phil
    May 28, 2008 7:37 a.m.

    COSMO, sounds like a good rumor to start. It is better than some of the fanciful ideas put out in here lately.

  • COSMO
    May 28, 2008 7:26 a.m.

    There is a story about someone trying to sell a child, on Craigs List;is Texas CPS already selling the FLDS children, to the highest bidder? Man that is fast!

  • Grandpa Phil
    May 28, 2008 7:08 a.m.

    To: "re; grandpa phil", I will answer your dumb question. I offer any of the FLDS families sanctuary against unjust and illegal persecution and denial of familial rights. I never said I did not have a problem with a pre-teen marrying a 50 yr old man. In all of these proceedings, none of us has yet been made aware of any such marriage going on in the FLDS group either. All we have heard from CPS and the gainsaying hate-mongers is innuendo and bombastic allegations served up only to create a firestorm of maniacal hatred against people who are different. I have talked with these people and I find them pleasant, intelligent, and caring; characteristics which are sorely lacking among those trying to take their children away. If one of those families needs a place where no one will bother them or threaten them, my home is sanctuary. It is for my family and it can be for theirs too. My daughters are 9, 8, and 19 months and we will not be looking to any weddings for MANY years. I was 43 when I married my 19 yr old wife 13 years ago. 'Nuff Said. Any more dumb questions?

  • christin
    May 28, 2008 5:03 a.m.

    These poor young girls indoctrinated into the church of rape. The U.S. needs to step in and let all of these brainwashed mothers, wives, and uh, sister-wifes?...of the way of the rest of the U.S.

    I am very curious how the influx of money to all of these wives and inter-families work. How are the tax dollars being applied, when they are seeming to have government contracts, and running a town.

    I also wonder, why (well, not so much) they do not want their children to 'know the impurity of the outsiders'...when it seems that all of them are ...at best...first or second cousins intermingling and reproducing.

    There are laws broken right there.

    Never mind that so many have 2 or 3 children by the time they are 17 or 18...statutory rape.

    DNA

    DNA

    DNA

    The result is going to be absolutely gross and horrific...this much I already know.

  • awesomeron
    May 28, 2008 3:29 a.m.

    They have Rape, Child Molestation, Broken Bones, Forced Marriage and Marriage of underage girls to old men. The purpose of which is to impregnate the females. Mind Control, Brain Washing, Casting Out, Switching of Wives and Children from one male to another. Incest, Inbreeding, Race Hate, that is what they have among other things. If you put children in an unsafe environment when stuff happens to them, the blood is on your hands. Did you think that when Jeffs went to Jail, that the problems of the people where over, and the oppressed would be freed, well think again.

  • HD
    May 28, 2008 12:03 a.m.

    Did anyone watch CBS 48 Hours tonight. The interviews with people who have escaped from the FLDS are amazing. The people who have left or have been kicked out all tell of the abuse and control that take place in the FLDS society. I hope that the viewing public can come to their senses and demand that the crimes here be punished by the law. People being kicked out of the compound, wives re-assigned to other men, young men being forced out on their own with little or no ability to cope with society. Now tell me this is religion. Texas CPS is not waging a war against a religion, they are wagging war against a repressive society that has taken the rights away from people. We have only began to scratch the surface of this problem.

  • Boots
    May 27, 2008 11:20 p.m.

    "Then why do you want me to answer those questions?" Jessop asks.

    "Because your church has been accused of sexually abusing children, thats why," Van Sant says.

    "So has the Catholics, so has any other religion, including Mormons. Should we just take them all down? Is there not a crime committed in any religion? Why do we single it out?" Jessop says."

    Isn't it interesting that when cornered they always seem to go back to accusing others of doing wrong. Fortunately that doesn't generally hold up in court as a good defense, 'Hey, some Catholic priest abused little boys, so why shouldn't we be able to rape little girls?'

    Polygamy is sexual slavery. Period. You simply raise your victim to believe she can't get to heaven without becoming a concubine. The whole thing is just sick beyond belief and I can't believe we are allowing a modern generation of American women to be turned into sex slaves by these perverts.

    I guess Utah, Arizona and the rest of the country can let this happen.

    Texans won't.

  • Sharon
    May 27, 2008 10:20 p.m.

    I watched 48 hours this evening and the man who interviewed Big Willie did not mince word one bit..he lay-ed the cards right on the table....and Willie boy lost his cool....he showed his true colors ! !...He is such a weasel

  • Re: R
    May 27, 2008 8:35 p.m.

    I think that what Boots meant, and most people understood, is that you can't use the Bible as an excuse to live a lifestyle that is abusive or degrading to another human being in todays world.

    Apparently, since then we have learned that all human beings should be treated equally. In earlier times, remember women were not treated as equals. In fact, they could be traded or sold. Same with slaves. We got over that,too.

    No need to go back.

  • R
    May 27, 2008 7:43 p.m.

    The Bible doesn't "promote" slavery. The Bible (esp. OT) places strict limits on slavery (such as a limit of seven years), although not going so far as banning it.

  • Blackbird
    May 27, 2008 7:15 p.m.

    Sure, the CPS and the FBI knew exactly what they were after when they went in there. They knew exactly what they were looking for...computers with digital photos, a bed in the temple. Remember every picture tells a story and every picture has a negative or is in a computer. They knew what girls to look for etc. This is just the tip of the iceberg. These were obvious "wedding pictures" and how many more are there and of what men and girls? The teenager from Canada supposedly visiting a grandmother when her grandmothers live in British Columbia and Alberta respectively.

    What amazes me if how far the polygamist promoters go in justifying abuse of 12 year old girls by a 52 year old man (Jeffs).

  • J-man
    May 27, 2008 6:51 p.m.

    To R:

    You want a name to prosecute, try Merril Jessop.

    Since Warren Jeffs is already locked up and it's common knowledge that Merril was running the show in Texas for the last 4 years, then he is responsible for the underage marriages in the YFZ too.

    That's if Merril will come out from under the rock he is hiding under!

  • Boots
    May 27, 2008 6:47 p.m.

    Can those of you who keep defending the whole idea of polygamy, by using the bible, please just get over yourselves?

    The people in the bible also owned, sold and traded slaves with G-s blessing even!

    The first Republican Party platform was right "The platform states that it is "the imperative duty of Congress to prohibit in the territories those twin relics of barbarism-polygamy and slavery."

    Quit using a religion to cover your unquenchable thirst for misogynistic abuse, power and control. You're sick barbarians. Plain and simple.

  • All desnews can talk about.
    May 27, 2008 6:33 p.m.

    Because it looks like the civil proceedings are going down the tube, maybe the possible criminal might be in order. Of coarse with the higher standard of evidence, and because there is no evidence, this is all just empty talk.

  • Texas dreaming up lies
    May 27, 2008 6:01 p.m.

    Enter commentI no longer have any faith in the law
    The Judicial system is controled by CRIMINALS

  • Alfredo
    May 27, 2008 5:41 p.m.

    In Europe this news about FSLD sect is taken very seriously; the rights of children, of women, and of course, also of religion.

    The main enemy of free speech is somehow free speech itself

    It's very depressing, although I think it was a good decision not to keep the children collectively away from there mothers.
    By the way; where are the fathers.........??

    The writers of the USA constitution have been closely looking in the past at the Dutch "declaration of independence", while being occupied by the Spanish armies.

    The very delicate mix in both constitutions about freedom, equality, dignity of children and safety makes it necessary for any new generation to re-invent the right balance, just because by not doing so, children girls and boys and women are over and over again the first victims considered their dignity.
    I know that Europe is a lot to blame;
    Colonization, slavery, two world wars and a holocaust.
    Also two unimaginable incest dramas in Austria these days.(24 years below the floor,incl.4 children of his own lockes up daughter).
    Natasha Kampush (8 years locked up somewhere else) has told the BBC that she thinks she can be of any help.

    Alfredo, Amsterdam.

  • David Greer
    May 27, 2008 5:35 p.m.

    Oh Joseph Smith. Look at the mess you started with your revelation on celestial marriage. It just won't go away.

  • re;grandpa phil
    May 27, 2008 4:50 p.m.

    would you give one of your 3 daughters to some 50 year old in 'spiritual marriage?

  • chartelle
    May 27, 2008 4:44 p.m.

    don't worry...very soon that baby will have a chance to bond with an adult. say in like 12- 13 years

  • Anonymous
    May 27, 2008 4:42 p.m.

    What I don't understand is how any woman could consent to this 3 wife rule. If you want a girlfriend to hang out with, you can always make friends with your neighbor, one that has her own husband.

    Even if I were single, I would not want to join in someone else's marriage just for the sake of being married.

  • chartelle
    May 27, 2008 3:48 p.m.

    PROTECTION OF THE CHILDREN?

    The state's grievous tactics and actions has been touted as doing so the "protect the children".

    Regardless of the age of those mothers(or fathers)the children were secure, sheltered and living in an environment of love and happiness. They were bonded to their mothers,and/or mothers as the case may be.

    When the state tore those children away from their parents, they could not possibly process or understand what was happening to them. Most will feel that they must have done something wrong..and will feel the anguish of guilty and fear. Add to that a strange and unfamiliar environment and the child is even more frightened and confused.

    Then, reports come out from the mental health workers that the CPS staff is treating those mothers and children unbelievably cruel and nasty...as though they are inmates in a maximum security prison. One girl's baby was kidnapped as soon as she delivered - with no chance to bond with that baby...or breast feed the infant.

    Is this what CPS considers to be protection of the children?

  • John Lambert
    May 27, 2008 3:43 p.m.

    To John B:
    The women know that these men are already married. The FLDS hold that to recieve full exaltation a man must have three wives. This, personally I hold to be false doctrine, but to deal with them you have to realize they hold this view.

  • John Lambert
    May 27, 2008 3:41 p.m.

    If the person who mentioned "sexually molested" meant the pictures of Warren Jeffs kissing the girl, I think they are overstating the case. Such kissing of a 12-year-old is not a behavior I would condone on the part of a 49-year-old, and if I ever have a daughter I would definantly not tolerate any adult man kissing her that way when she is still a minor.
    Still, I do not think the picture alone could prove a case for sexual molestation, although it would go a long ways towards getting a jury to convict.
    I am more worried that the nature of the way the warrant was obtained will disqualify the evidence found in the raid.
    The problem that Texas will face, as Utah and Arizona have, is it is hard to prosecute those who have sexual relations with minors when neither the minor nor the minor's parents feel that a crime has been committed.

  • chartelle
    May 27, 2008 3:17 p.m.

    PROTECTION OF THE CHILDREN?

    All of the state's grievous actions in it's gestapo
    tactics, and justifications for such actions, has been touted as doing so to "protect the children".

    Regardless of the ages of those mothers(or fathers), those children were secure, sheltered and living in an environment of love and happiness.
    When the state tore those children away from
    their parents, they could not possibly process or
    understand what was happening to them. Most
    will feel that they have done something wrong
    ...and will feel the anguish of guilt and fear in
    being separated from that bonding. With a strange environment the child is even more frightened and confused.

    Finally,it is reported by the mental health workers that, instead of trying to comfort those children, the behavior of the CPS staff toward those children and mothers is unbelievably mean, uncaring and nasty. They are being treated as inmates in a maximum security prison.

    Is this child protection?

  • Stop it now!
    May 27, 2008 3:16 p.m.

    This inbreeding has to STOP!

  • R
    May 27, 2008 2:46 p.m.

    //These men should be prosecuted! //

    Which men? Got any names?

    //Time to shut the religious prison down.//

    You have an odd definition of "prison".

    //take action against both ordinary and serial polygamy. Serial polygamy is a rising menace in which children become pawns. //

    Good luck with that, since it means all but eliminating legal divorce.

    //It wouldn't be a bit surprising, to learn that some of these bloggers are the child abusers //

    Keep telling yourself that; the facts are otherwise.

    //The child rapists will celebrate and the little girls, who will to become their child brides, will be groomed to be their sex slaves.//

    And your evidence of that is...?

    //Why not use it?//

    You want illegally obtained evidence to be admissible? When such a precedent can have disastrous effects for the civil liberties of all Americans?

    //How can anyone justify a 14 y/o girl marrying a 50+ y/o man?//

    Which marriage are you referring to?

    //how long would it be before they were moved somewhere else ?//

    Who the heck cares?

    //We need to follow rule-of-law. //

    If only the rabidly anti-FLDS people would realize that!

  • chartelle
    May 27, 2008 2:38 p.m.

    I started my blog on behalf of FLDS right after the state's action. I am pentecostal, not mormon. I am not so much a lover of FLDS as I am a lover of the constitution. Any action, under color of law, should begin with an investigation into a suspected wrongdoing...and,then,obtain admissible evidence that may or may not support a prosecution.The latter would best be determined through the mechanism of a grand jury proceeding.

    What has happened in this case(in my opinion)has been that CPS has abused the statute(Family Code 262.201) under which they can operate with a much lower threshold of proof than is ordinarily required of either a civil or criminal case. I suppose the
    legislature trusted that CPS officials would use that statute with integrity - and in a reasonable and prudent manner to achieve the objective of intervening to protect the health and safety of a child. This case, in particular, proves that such legislative trust was misplaced. CPS has been in a conspiracy with other law enforcement agencies to storm that compound using the pretext of seeking a captive minor - which they knew to be a hoax.

  • Silver Fox says...
    May 27, 2008 2:14 p.m.

    Re: Listen | 8:51 a.m. May 27, 2008

    This my second attempt to respond to your post. I guess the monitors have it in for Silver Fox, or better yet, comments are allowed, but not discussion.

    Polygamy may be spoken of in the bible, however I'm not sure that is the answer. From whom did the FLDS receive authority to practice polygamy.

    Polygamy is tough to understand among the LDS prior to the manifesto. Please don't tell me that after the manifesto it comes from Warren Jeffs.

  • Now we know
    May 27, 2008 1:40 p.m.

    "not that I know about"

    What a weasel answer from Willie Jessop. This is a very tight community. Does Willie really expect us to believe that if there was even one underage marriage he wouldn't know about it?

    He knows that there are underage marriages, so he answers with the standard "I don't know" answer, so there won't be any video proof that he was lying when the truth comes out.

  • Isn't it ironic?
    May 27, 2008 1:24 p.m.

    I think it's very ironic that one of the main claims of abuse from Texas CPS was that people in the YFZ Ranch (especially children) were cut off from the outside (no cable TV, not news papers, no internet, etc)... So what is the first thing Texas does when they take the 450+ kids away from their opressors??? Take away their cell-phones and isolate them! Isn't that exactly what they were accusing the abusive parents of doing?

    Doesn't anybody see a problem with that?

    If they were so cut off from the outside... Where did they get the cell phones?

    Especially disturbing is... Texas misrepresented the reason for taking all cell-phones from FLDS people, saying it was because they may find out what to say from their leaders, when it is more than obvious they only acted when some FLDS people contacted the media using their cell phones to report the abhorant conditions in Texas custody.

    What right does Texas have to take away ANYBODY's cell phone who has not been charged with a crime? To isolate them, to prevent them from communicating whith lawyers, media or whoever they want to?

    And yet, many keep saying, "Way to go Texas"!

  • Grandpa Phil
    May 27, 2008 1:20 p.m.

    To "Mad Granny", "a little rough" in no way describes what CPS did to these children and mothers. They have been traumatized beyond measure and that abuse will continue as long as the children are in the hands of CPS. I thought we were in America and had the right to move anywhere we want - that is, unless you are under the control of CPS and they decide where and when. Everyone keeps harping about all of the abuse these children experience under the hand of all of these "dirty old men" but CPS has failed to document any of that. If it was out there and was that prevelant, wouldn't CPS have documented it in Court by now if for no other reason than to justify their actions somehow? WHere are the charges? If anyone broke the law, CHARGE somebody and get them out of there; however, return the children to their mothers before more harm than good is done by CPS.

  • 48 hours tonight!
    May 27, 2008 1:15 p.m.

    they ask willie jessop about any underage marriages, he says; "not that I know about" hahahahaha

  • ooops
    May 27, 2008 1:07 p.m.

    the polygamy special is on 48 hours...cbs-sorry

  • hey
    May 27, 2008 1:05 p.m.

    watch 20/20 tonight!!!!! FLDS that don't have televisions...go to the abc website and watch it there.

  • re: angry dad
    May 27, 2008 12:39 p.m.

    I agree!

  • Too "Mad Granny | 11:03 a.m"
    May 27, 2008 12:35 p.m.

    You may be right that if Texas had handled this by legal means the FLDS may have moved the kids... But that doesn't justify ignoring the constitution.

    The protections outlined in the Constitution are not conditionally granted depending on how bad you want to get somebody, or how convenient it is to follow them.

    Everyone in law enforcement knows the inconvenient truth that the constitution sometimes makes it harder to do their job. That doesn't justify Texas deciding all those pesky protections don't apply in this case because what they were doing was "The right thing" and go runing in with tanks, guns, swat-teams and a bogus warrant yelling, "Don't mess with Texas"!

    Just because you are convinced you are "right" doesn't null and void the Constitution. Sometimes bad-guys get away becasue the constitution got in the way.

    I think they could have done this without all the macho grand-standing and "Don't mess with Texas" chants whenever faced with questions about why they decided to overstep their bounds and take all kids without evidence that specifically indicated they were underaged or endangered.

    We need to follow rule-of-law.

  • Ekim
    May 27, 2008 12:11 p.m.

    re Angry Dad

    wah wah wah wah

  • Re: J-man
    May 27, 2008 12:10 p.m.

    They don't tell the women that it's about satisfying their sexual pleasure. The women believe that the men are "called of God" to do it and therefore they are fulfilling their duty. They are doing it for righteousness.

    But of course Warren Jeff's knows better than that. I feel for him because he is now busted and before long these women and children are going to have their eyes opened and then he will have to figure out how to explain he revelations.

  • to wrz
    May 27, 2008 12:08 p.m.

    "If the law was changed, FLDS should follow the new law. But Texas can't prosecute marriages that were performed when the old law was in effect."

    Quite obviously, the FLDS don't care about following the law when it comes to marriage or child abuse.

    Your assumption that the FLDS would stop performing these marriages simply because the law was changed has no basis in reality.

    The FLDS will do whatever their "prophet" tells them to do, even if he's already been convicted and sent to prison for performing these underage marriages.

    That's why they need to be stopped.

  • Angry Dad
    May 27, 2008 12:01 p.m.

    re:Mad Granny

    "Maybe the way that this was handled was a little rough"

    a little rough? kids ripped away from loving mothers, and sent to an abusive foster system?

    "how long do you think it would be before they all were moved somewhere else ?"

    I thought that this was america. I can move to anywhere I choose. Or from another perspective, CPS can make you move anywhere it chooses.

    "It would break my heart to if I thought any child was made to submit to these dirty old men."

    So this is the only kind of abuse that would break your heart? How about children being abused by CPS and foster care - catching diseases, losing their mother's milk, separated from siblings, subject to underage unmarried pregnancy in foster care, etc. etc?

  • J-man
    May 27, 2008 11:54 a.m.

    FLDS get real! In the "real world" when a 14 y/o girl is married off to a 50+ y/o man in a bogus "spiritual marriage" it's actually considered rape of a minor.

    And whatever some outdated Texas law said before, never made it right. It has always been dirty, immoral, and perverted.

    What parent would actually allow their 14 y/o daughter to be married to a 5o+ y/o man just to satisfy his sexual pleasure?

  • wrz
    May 27, 2008 11:37 a.m.

    "thats why they built the compound there wrz. but, now the law has changed. too bad."

    If the law was changed, FLDS should follow the new law. But Texas can't prosecute marriages that were performed when the old law was in effect.

    And incidentally, that's why Texas changed the marriage law to 16... because FLDS came to town.

  • "Difficult to know...
    May 27, 2008 11:35 a.m.

    exact numbers, but we are certain that all of the children were properly accounted for."

    Just my prediction of what will happen after Texas' Supreme Court upholds the appellate court's decision and CPS returns 203 children.

  • fred
    May 27, 2008 11:30 a.m.

    "I'm still waiting for any FLDS person to explain the logic of having Warren Jeffs or Merril Jessop sanction a marriage between a 14 y/o girl and a 50+ y/o man....."

    Texas law sanctioned it prior to 2006.

  • duh
    May 27, 2008 11:27 a.m.

    thats why they built the compound there wrz. but, now the law has changed. too bad. pack it up and move somewhere else. just like they moved the cabinet shop in hildale

  • wrz
    May 27, 2008 11:21 a.m.

    "How can any FLDS person justify a 14 y/o girl marrying a 50+ y/o man in an arranged marriage??????"

    Because Texas law said it was OK... prior to 2006 when the marriage age was raised to 16. And there was no restriction of the age of the husband. FLDS was just following the Texas law.

  • wrz
    May 27, 2008 11:15 a.m.

    "However God gives and takes. He has taken the principle away for now..."

    I think God would be a lot happier, considering all the grief of late, had He not introduced it in the first place.

  • J-man
    May 27, 2008 11:11 a.m.

    I'm still waiting for any FLDS person to explain the logic of having Warren Jeffs or Merril Jessop sanction a marriage between a 14 y/o girl and a 50+ y/o man.....

  • Re: I have many | 7:31 a.m
    May 27, 2008 11:05 a.m.

    I am so sorry to hear that you have many pictures such as this of your daughters. I can't imagine any daddy in his right mind kissing any little girl in that manner. It doesn't matter if you try to convince people otherwise, it's obvious what is happening in this picture.

    To Listen: They did a lot of things in Bible times that just don't work for me...one of them is polygamy. I don't think it's righteous, and it is abusive to women.

  • well
    May 27, 2008 11:04 a.m.

    Hildale Utah

    Median age 13.1
    Youngest in state 26.8
    Youngest in nation
    Persons per household 8.55
    Largest in state 3.13
    Largest in nation
    Avg household income* $21,822 $41,316
    Per capita income $3,772
    Lowest in state $14,492
    % of families in poverty 32.4% 11.4%

    Average household adjusted gross income from federal tax returns
    Source: Utah Tax Commission 1995, US Census, Utah and Arizona Departments of Education.

    Colorado City Arizona

    Median age 12.5
    Youngest in state 32.2
    Persons per household 7.97
    Largest in state 2.62
    Avg household income* $19,663 $35,426
    Per capita income $2,319 $13,461
    % of families in poverty 61% 11.4%

    Hildale received $405,006 from federal housing grants to remodel 19 homes on FLDS land. And Hildale Mayor David K. Zitting, an FLDS member, was appointed by two Utah governors (Republicans Norm Bangerter and Mike Leavitt) to sit on the state Housing Development Advisory Council.

    In 1998 Hildale ranked last among Utah towns for average payment of federal income taxes paid per filer ($651 annually), but it is first for tax exemptions (3.62).

  • Mad Granny
    May 27, 2008 11:03 a.m.

    Maybe the way that this was handled was a little rough,but stop and think--if the children were left at the ranch how long do you think it would be before they all were moved somewhere else ??With numerous other places already established,it would not be hard to move them somewhere they would just blend in.I have no idea how this will all end,but after all it is about the welfare of these little innocent children.It would break my heart to if I thought any child was made to submit to these dirty old men.

  • to "well..."
    May 27, 2008 10:55 a.m.

    Colorado City is not in Utah. You might want to get a few basic facts straight before you comment.

  • well
    May 27, 2008 10:38 a.m.

    Colorado City pays the LEAST taxes and receives the MOST welfare of ANY Utah city.


    so much for your self sufficient lifestyle


    bleed the beast

  • re: here ya go
    May 27, 2008 10:24 a.m.

    Here is my argument;

    I am FLDS, I am not a lawyer/scientist and I do live in Utah...and I'm against child rape and walfare fraud, Kicking young boys out of the community!

    Texas CPS is reprehensible...to rip those poor "Children" away from their loving mothers!!!

    There is no Constution. "AND YER KIDS ARE NEXT"

    Stop complaining about what we do. Please see that you need to secure your own rights under what you call you Constitution.

  • Interloper
    May 27, 2008 10:17 a.m.

    Do the apologists for polygamy never stop? Many things were done in Biblical times that aren't done now because people know better, so spare us the tired old claim that God wants 50-year-old men having their way with girls young enough to be their granddaughters. The fact that polygamy is covered under the bigamy statute in Texas does not get the offenders off the hook. The statute does not have to use the word 'polygamy' to outlaw the behavior. Nor would any person fully in his or her right mine consider Warren Jeffs and those who came before him perfect and inerrant.

    The only thing misleading occurring is efforts to cover up what goes on among the FLDS. And, yes, some gullible reporters fall into the trap of repeating FLDS propaganda. But, even as they do that, the wheels of justice are moving inexorably through pounds of evidence that will end the FLDS charade.

  • re: whatever
    May 27, 2008 10:16 a.m.

    Hey there! Just thought you might need to know that:

    If Property Taxes are not paid, the property in question will eventually be sold for back taxes.

    If a person qualifies for welfare in Hildale or Colorado City, they must submit to all the forms and regulations that any other person living in any other city in Utah or Arizona.

    What's it to you what I do with my money? I really don't care what you do with yours.

    Isn't it great to live in America?

  • here ya go
    May 27, 2008 10:13 a.m.

    here is the standard FLDS argument;

    I'm not FLDS, I'm a lawyer/scientist and I don't live in Utah...and I'm against child rape and welfare fraud, Kicking young boys out of the community,BLAh blah blah

    but, what the texas CPS did is reprehensible...to rip those poor kids away from their loving mothers!!!

    Texas is going to pay big time for trampling on the Constitution

  • SterlingSilver
    May 27, 2008 10:10 a.m.

    Hello America! You are witnessing the reality of your new government. You no longer have the Constitution of the United States of America. You are now governed by Homeland Security. All previously assumed rights are null and void. Please submit yourselves to your new Government!

  • Desperation
    May 27, 2008 9:53 a.m.

    It's truly ironic, and laughable, that the FLDS child abusers want CPS prosecuted for trying to protect their children from abuse.

    More and more they're showing their desperation. Deep down they can see that their PR campaign is failing and that they're headed to prison.

    It's too bad these abusive old men aren't already in custody, because most of them will be in hiding by the time they're indicted.

  • Title misleading.
    May 27, 2008 9:45 a.m.

    The title of this article should have read "JEFFS Criminal Cases Building." Rounding it up as all FLDS cases building was misleading. So far CPS have failed prove child abuse at the YFZ--the proof they've said they had, later we find they were lying. It appears they're scraping at the bottom of the barrel in trying to justify what they've done. A picture of Jeffs smooching a kid 2 years ago? Oh ya, that's a *really* good reason to rip kids away from their families. Please.

    I'm tired of this circus show. The children should go back home.

  • about time
    May 27, 2008 9:35 a.m.

    you mean to say they are actually going to try doing it legally, a little late don't you think.
    As soon as they are done are they going to bring criminal cases against CPS and the Officers that broke the Law to do this raid as well?

  • J-man
    May 27, 2008 9:26 a.m.

    FLDS, so the whole world is wrong and your group is right, is that correct?

    How can any FLDS person justify a 14 y/o girl marrying a 50+ y/o man in an arranged marriage??????





  • Texas Roundup
    May 27, 2008 9:19 a.m.

    The guilty need to go to Jail --- It's illegal to molest children.

    Its also illegal to "ROUND UP" a whole community of children --- release the children

  • whatever...
    May 27, 2008 9:16 a.m.

    FLDS pay property tax(including back taxes) and stop taking welfare in colorado city and hildale and sending it to texas.


    i can't wait to hear from the FLDS defenders ....


    anyone?


    thats what i thought

  • Cannot Believe
    May 27, 2008 9:14 a.m.

    I cannot believe you folks who state that you do not want this evidence used against Jeffs! Whether you agree or disagree with CPS's decision to remove the children, that is what happened and they now have the evidence in hand and it was obtained with a search warrant. Why not use it? His being brought down would be the absolute best thing possible for all of these folks, especially the children. He's a tyrant, not a prophet. I'm sure those FLDS folks who were commanded to "repent from afar" and split from their families will agree, but they are just too scared to come out and say so!

  • Re: L.G. KIRKPATRICK
    May 27, 2008 9:04 a.m.

    YES!! YES!! YES!! Thank-you for being a sensible thinker on this blog. So many nin-com-poops write without thinking through to how this is going to affect THEIR RIGHTS!!! Thanks again.

  • Bruce
    May 27, 2008 8:59 a.m.

    Follow the money.
    There is a big demand for very young white children in the adoption racket. This is a potential cash cow for Texas CPS and they aren't about to let go easy.

  • Re: Angry in NH
    May 27, 2008 8:58 a.m.

    Unfortunately, you'll probably get your wish. Some bleeding-heart judge will rule that the evidence is inadmissable because of an overly-broad search warrant.

    The child rapists will celebrate and the little girls, who are destined to become their child brides, will continue to be groomed to be their sex slaves.

    At least they aren't your daughters, so you can rest peacefully at night.

  • Listen
    May 27, 2008 8:51 a.m.

    Listen you who say " was there ever a good form of polgamy." God is the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac. And what were they? Polygamists! Cover your ears lest they fall off at such a scandalous thing. So if God is the God of old polygmists it stands to reason that God supported the practice at one point. However God gives and takes. He has taken the principle away for now, but you who question it, the practice of polgamy and its validitity in any time period, STOP and consider that Abraham a polgyamist is making it to Heaven.....or was the Bible wrong to call Abraham a "Friend of God"?

  • Scared
    May 27, 2008 8:48 a.m.

    Some FLDS have bombarded this blog with lies, half-truths and denials since the day this story broke.

    It wouldn't be a bit surprising, therefore, to learn that some of these bloggers are the child abusers who have married these child brides and that their main concern all along was not in getting their children back, but in halting the investigation.

    They're scared that the longer Texas keeps digging the more likely it will be that Texas will find evidence that will send these men to prison, just like their good friend, Warren Jeffs.

  • Anonymous
    May 27, 2008 8:45 a.m.

    These young girls must think its an honor to be having Warren Jeffs children.Please get these children the help they need.I think the state of Texas needs to keep digging to put all those men away for a very long time.Not just in texas but in the other states also.Mr. President must get involved in this also.THE POOR CHILDREN HOW BRAINWASHED THEY ARE.

  • BobP
    May 27, 2008 8:40 a.m.

    I think it is time to take action against both ordinary and serial polygamy. Serial polygamy is a rising menace in which children become pawns.

  • jatow
    May 27, 2008 8:30 a.m.

    Why not add tax evasion, failure of the males to register for military service, harboring a fugitive

  • Still Angry in New Hampshire
    May 27, 2008 8:28 a.m.

    I sincerely hope that the U.S. Constitution remains in effect here, that these "boxes of evidence" that the article mentions, which were seized unlawfully due to an overly broad and baseless warrant in a non-criminal case, be barred from use in any criminal prosecution. Anything else opens would completely undermine the fourth amendment. I wish someone in Texas would read the Constitution...

  • L. G. KIRKPATRICK
    May 27, 2008 8:25 a.m.

    Folks, this despicable act of treason by Texas must end now -- today -- not later this week, not next week, not next month, and certainly not waiting possibly years for all or any of this to make its way through the legal system to the SCOTUS. Return ALL the children to their families, don't just throw them a bone by returning 12 or 15 at a time. As a nation, we have to rise against this gross miscarriage of justice, or as the theme song to the TV show "Cops" goes, "What cha gonna do when they come for YOU?" When government refuses to act within the scope of even any one law, we no longer have rule of law. The society as a whole is doomed to mass collapse. Seems to me that we were warned about this over 165 years ago . . . .

  • texas
    May 27, 2008 8:20 a.m.

    follow the paper trail....follow the money to find the source of the stink.

    -old chinese saying

  • Interloper
    May 27, 2008 8:12 a.m.

    I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. At the very least, I expect Warren Jeffs to be indicted for actual rape of a minor. The men who fathered children with girls who were 13-16 at the time should also be in the first round of charges. There might be a warrant for Merril Jessop, since he has been performing the role of Warren Jeffs in the illegal marriages. Or perhaps Willie Jessop, though he may disappear before that happens.

  • hello
    May 27, 2008 8:10 a.m.

    THE CPS TREATED EVERYONE AT THE COMPOUND AS ONE FAMILY BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL INBRED RELATED!!!! you are a barlow or a jessop

  • Grandpa Phil
    May 27, 2008 8:04 a.m.

    As soon as the Appelate Court decision was made, every one of those FLDS kids was in more trouble. CPS and Judge Walther are not the kind that will sit calmy and listen to such critism. Their only vindication will come in forcing some type of incriminating testimony out of those kids while they are still in captivity. They are NOT going down without a fight and those children are going to suffer the brunt of this still. Case workers will descend on every foster home and group home in Texas with instructions to extract SOMETHING out of those kids that CPS can use to vindicate themselves and what they did. It would not surprise me a bit to see a host of new allegations of abuse all of a sudden being published by Texas CPS. As ALWAYS, the children will be the losers at the hand of CPS. This is not longer about child abuse; it is about Texas CPS and the Judge saving face.

  • THINK ABOUT IT !
    May 27, 2008 8:04 a.m.

    CORRECTION...DALE BARLOW...NOT DAN...my mistake.

  • JND
    May 27, 2008 7:52 a.m.

    Dear michaelh,

    You wish!

    Have a nice day.

  • I have many
    May 27, 2008 7:31 a.m.

    photo's of my husband, who is not blood related to our daughter, hugging and holding her close to him. It is not 'creepy', as we know the background of both my husband and our adopted daughters. This is 'creepy' because we know Jeff's background. BUT, is this what we are really seeing, or is what Texas CPS wants us to 'see'? I am in no way defending Jeffs. He is where he needs to be, and perhaps for eternity. But could this just be an innocent photo? I think any crimes must be dealt with. But send the other children home. If all you've got is a questionalbe photo - and one similar to many families - then you gots nutting.

  • Please Wake up FLDS!
    May 27, 2008 7:30 a.m.

    Someday, the FLDS will wake up and realize that Warren Jeffs is not the righteous "prophet" they've been taught to trust and believe in, but an uninspired pedophile.

    The video of Warren confessing that he is a false prophet is real.

    The pictures of Warren passionately kissing a young girl aren't doctored,

    The eyewitnesses aren't lying.

    The young girls he has raped personally or has forced into arranged marriages to be raped by his friends are real.

    The boys he has kicked out of the community are real.

    The families he has destroyed by reassigning them to new fathers are real.

    There are many qualities to admire about the devotion that the FLDS have to their faith. Unfortunately, that devotion has been used by an evil, brain-washing, power-hungry, child-abusing pedophile to corrupt, enslave and destroy the lives of the FLDS children and mothers.

  • Wallis Beach
    May 27, 2008 7:13 a.m.

    Time to shut the religious prison down. Go texas.

  • john b
    May 27, 2008 7:02 a.m.

    ? How does A man in A closed group marry more than one at A time with out the women knowing hes already married?

  • plankton
    May 27, 2008 6:59 a.m.

    If the state can raid that ranch and take captive so many children based on an allegation that has since all but proved false, and in such an all cost manner...whats to stop them from construing the evidence anyway they want?

  • michaelh
    May 27, 2008 6:55 a.m.

    Texas CPS distributed photographs to the media of an underage girl being sexually molested by Warren Jeffs. By not concealing the identity of the victim Texas CPS has violated the law and has become interstate child pornographers. Since the CPS is a community they as a community should be arrested and charged with this crime, have their personal information published on the national sex offender registry and as sex offenders FIRED!!!

  • Anonymous
    May 27, 2008 6:46 a.m.

    If the raid was illegal then the search warrant that took the evidence was also. What idiots. Most lawyers will get those things dismissed leaving the state without a leg to stand on. Texas should have done the search correctly so those documents could be used in court.

  • Silver Fox says...
    May 27, 2008 6:37 a.m.

    Something big is building. It looks rather ominous for the FLDS. The legacy of an ugly form of polygamy continues. Was there ever a good form of polygamy? My grandparents practiced polygamy prior to the manifesto. I am monogamous.

  • moniker
    May 27, 2008 6:14 a.m.

    One of the girls in the photos with Jeffs is a 13 year old(according to Texas) that is in Texas state custody.

    The state also says it gave her a physical exam and and yet has not made any charges.

    From the girls pershpective, who has forcibly violated her, Texas of Jeffs?

    If the so-called exam had been done focibly by anyone else what would we call that?

    No one should have the power to forcibly violate a child.

  • Momotaro
    May 27, 2008 6:01 a.m.

    Build the criminal case and prosecute those who have broken the law. But release the hundreds of innocent children.

  • Fooling Themselves
    May 27, 2008 4:58 a.m.

    It's time for the FLDS to wake up and realize that Warren Jeffs is not an inspired leader, but a child abusing pedophile.

  • St00p1d
    May 27, 2008 4:37 a.m.

    Any comments that Deseret News does not agree with will also not be posted.

  • Ronald A. Young
    May 27, 2008 3:55 a.m.

    Good!! The sooner the better.

  • Eye Dee Ten Tee
    May 27, 2008 3:45 a.m.

    I hope that all the evidence taken from the YFZ ranch will be admissable, and not thrown out because of the overzealous law enforcement and CPS authorities. If they were so interested in protecting the children, maybe they could have read the laws first, or at least reviewed their 8th grade civics textbook. (Do they still include the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in textbooks?)
    Anyway, if they had followed the rule of law and built a solid case on available evidence, or had at least tried to infiltrate the compound legally, they would have better probability of removing the children from the compound and getting them to a place where they could make their own decision on who and when they marry.

  • L. G. KIRKPATRICK
    May 27, 2008 2:22 a.m.

    "The state hinted at witnesses that would create more fireworks and 51st District Judge Barbara Walther, stung by the appellate court's criticism, egged the department on." From Tuesday, May 27, 2008, on-line edition of Salt Lake Tribune.

    I'm not sure if the "egged" is intended as Judge Walther encouraging and prodding CPS in its persecution of the FLDS, or if it's meant as in "we egged the CPS on Halloween night".

    Whichever, this is the best example I've seen yet of the "Hanging Judge" displaying gross misconduct and abdication of responsibility in this travesty of justice. She needs, IMHO, to be IMMEDIATELY jerked from the bench, severely reprimanded, and PERMANENTLY DISBARRED from the Texas legal scene.

    Enough is enough, and this is too much. I would not condone open violence against this kangaroo court, but the scenario is attractive.

  • Thomas
    May 27, 2008 1:15 a.m.

    Please leave these people alone.

  • Proposed Solution
    May 27, 2008 1:12 a.m.

    It is extremely important that the US and states take action to stop and end polygamous marriages. If nothing else, it takes a huge toll on the children of these marriages and it is also not healthy for society to have these separate groups or communes.

    However, it simply does not guarantee the well-being of the children to have CPS take the children from the mothers, so the children should remain with the mothers, while the fathers should be legally and physically refrained from staying with the families except for 'visitation' type rights.

    It was also rough for our Mormon ancestors to end this practice and it took at least one generation. It is imperative in this case of the FLDS and all similar groups that we begin.

  • CougarKeith
    May 27, 2008 12:58 a.m.

    Sadly anyone over the "Legal Age" and then some, having sex (Married Or Not) with someone under age IS WRONG in the 20th and 21st centuries in the United States of America! These men should be prosecuted! 19 with a 14 and "Married" is questionable. I feel for the Children and Women in the Texas colony (It isn't a COMPOUND), they have had their rights infringed upon, whether or not the so called men of the colony were ABUSING THEM, it was handled COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE! GO GET THE GUILTY MEN, Leave the women and children alone!!!

  • hmmmmm
    May 27, 2008 12:57 a.m.

    i suppose the RED escalade and the cash and prizes were 'photoshoped' too.......