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Re: I have many | 7:31 a.m | 11:05 a.m. May 27, 2008
I am so sorry to hear that you have many pictures such as this of your
daughters. I can't imagine any daddy in his right mind kissing any little
girl in that manner. It doesn't matter if you try to convince people
otherwise, it's obvious what is happening in this picture.
To Listen: They did a lot of things in Bible times that just don't work for me...one of them is polygamy. I don't think it's righteous, and it is abusive to women.
To Listen: They did a lot of things in Bible times that just don't work for me...one of them is polygamy. I don't think it's righteous, and it is abusive to women.
J-man | 11:11 a.m. May 27, 2008
I'm still waiting for any FLDS person to explain the logic of having Warren
Jeffs or Merril Jessop sanction a marriage between a 14 y/o girl and a 50+ y/o
man.....
Comments continue below
wrz | 11:15 a.m. May 27, 2008
"However God gives and takes. He has taken the principle away for
now..."
I think God would be a lot happier, considering all the grief of late, had He not introduced it in the first place.
I think God would be a lot happier, considering all the grief of late, had He not introduced it in the first place.
wrz | 11:21 a.m. May 27, 2008
"How can any FLDS person justify a 14 y/o girl marrying a 50+ y/o man in an
arranged marriage??????"
Because Texas law said it was OK... prior to 2006 when the marriage age was raised to 16. And there was no restriction of the age of the husband. FLDS was just following the Texas law.
Because Texas law said it was OK... prior to 2006 when the marriage age was raised to 16. And there was no restriction of the age of the husband. FLDS was just following the Texas law.
duh | 11:27 a.m. May 27, 2008
thats why they built the compound there wrz. but, now the law has changed. too
bad. pack it up and move somewhere else. just like they moved the cabinet shop
in hildale
fred | 11:30 a.m. May 27, 2008
"I'm still waiting for any FLDS person to explain the logic of having
Warren Jeffs or Merril Jessop sanction a marriage between a 14 y/o girl and a
50+ y/o man....."
Texas law sanctioned it prior to 2006.
Texas law sanctioned it prior to 2006.
"Difficult to know... | 11:35 a.m. May 27, 2008
exact numbers, but we are certain that all of the children were properly
accounted for."
Just my prediction of what will happen after Texas' Supreme Court upholds the appellate court's decision and CPS returns 203 children.
Just my prediction of what will happen after Texas' Supreme Court upholds the appellate court's decision and CPS returns 203 children.
wrz | 11:37 a.m. May 27, 2008
"thats why they built the compound there wrz. but, now the law has changed.
too bad."
If the law was changed, FLDS should follow the new law. But Texas can't prosecute marriages that were performed when the old law was in effect.
And incidentally, that's why Texas changed the marriage law to 16... because FLDS came to town.
If the law was changed, FLDS should follow the new law. But Texas can't prosecute marriages that were performed when the old law was in effect.
And incidentally, that's why Texas changed the marriage law to 16... because FLDS came to town.
J-man | 11:54 a.m. May 27, 2008
FLDS get real! In the "real world" when a 14 y/o girl is married off
to a 50+ y/o man in a bogus "spiritual marriage" it's actually
considered rape of a minor.
And whatever some outdated Texas law said before, never made it right. It has always been dirty, immoral, and perverted.
What parent would actually allow their 14 y/o daughter to be married to a 5o+ y/o man just to satisfy his sexual pleasure?
And whatever some outdated Texas law said before, never made it right. It has always been dirty, immoral, and perverted.
What parent would actually allow their 14 y/o daughter to be married to a 5o+ y/o man just to satisfy his sexual pleasure?
Angry Dad | 12:01 p.m. May 27, 2008
re:Mad Granny
"Maybe the way that this was handled was a little rough"
a little rough? kids ripped away from loving mothers, and sent to an abusive foster system?
"how long do you think it would be before they all were moved somewhere else ?"
I thought that this was america. I can move to anywhere I choose. Or from another perspective, CPS can make you move anywhere it chooses.
"It would break my heart to if I thought any child was made to submit to these dirty old men."
So this is the only kind of abuse that would break your heart? How about children being abused by CPS and foster care - catching diseases, losing their mother's milk, separated from siblings, subject to underage unmarried pregnancy in foster care, etc. etc?
"Maybe the way that this was handled was a little rough"
a little rough? kids ripped away from loving mothers, and sent to an abusive foster system?
"how long do you think it would be before they all were moved somewhere else ?"
I thought that this was america. I can move to anywhere I choose. Or from another perspective, CPS can make you move anywhere it chooses.
"It would break my heart to if I thought any child was made to submit to these dirty old men."
So this is the only kind of abuse that would break your heart? How about children being abused by CPS and foster care - catching diseases, losing their mother's milk, separated from siblings, subject to underage unmarried pregnancy in foster care, etc. etc?
to wrz | 12:08 p.m. May 27, 2008
"If the law was changed, FLDS should follow the new law. But Texas
can't prosecute marriages that were performed when the old law was in
effect."
Quite obviously, the FLDS don't care about following the law when it comes to marriage or child abuse.
Your assumption that the FLDS would stop performing these marriages simply because the law was changed has no basis in reality.
The FLDS will do whatever their "prophet" tells them to do, even if he's already been convicted and sent to prison for performing these underage marriages.
That's why they need to be stopped.
Quite obviously, the FLDS don't care about following the law when it comes to marriage or child abuse.
Your assumption that the FLDS would stop performing these marriages simply because the law was changed has no basis in reality.
The FLDS will do whatever their "prophet" tells them to do, even if he's already been convicted and sent to prison for performing these underage marriages.
That's why they need to be stopped.
Re: J-man | 12:10 p.m. May 27, 2008
They don't tell the women that it's about satisfying their sexual
pleasure. The women believe that the men are "called of God" to do it
and therefore they are fulfilling their duty. They are doing it for
righteousness.
But of course Warren Jeff's knows better than that. I feel for him because he is now busted and before long these women and children are going to have their eyes opened and then he will have to figure out how to explain he revelations.
But of course Warren Jeff's knows better than that. I feel for him because he is now busted and before long these women and children are going to have their eyes opened and then he will have to figure out how to explain he revelations.
Ekim | 12:11 p.m. May 27, 2008
re Angry Dad
wah wah wah wah
wah wah wah wah
Too "Mad Granny | 11:03 a.m" | 12:35 p.m. May 27, 2008
You may be right that if Texas had handled this by legal means the FLDS may have
moved the kids... But that doesn't justify ignoring the constitution.
The protections outlined in the Constitution are not conditionally granted depending on how bad you want to get somebody, or how convenient it is to follow them.
Everyone in law enforcement knows the inconvenient truth that the constitution sometimes makes it harder to do their job. That doesn't justify Texas deciding all those pesky protections don't apply in this case because what they were doing was "The right thing" and go runing in with tanks, guns, swat-teams and a bogus warrant yelling, "Don't mess with Texas"!
Just because you are convinced you are "right" doesn't null and void the Constitution. Sometimes bad-guys get away becasue the constitution got in the way.
I think they could have done this without all the macho grand-standing and "Don't mess with Texas" chants whenever faced with questions about why they decided to overstep their bounds and take all kids without evidence that specifically indicated they were underaged or endangered.
We need to follow rule-of-law.
The protections outlined in the Constitution are not conditionally granted depending on how bad you want to get somebody, or how convenient it is to follow them.
Everyone in law enforcement knows the inconvenient truth that the constitution sometimes makes it harder to do their job. That doesn't justify Texas deciding all those pesky protections don't apply in this case because what they were doing was "The right thing" and go runing in with tanks, guns, swat-teams and a bogus warrant yelling, "Don't mess with Texas"!
Just because you are convinced you are "right" doesn't null and void the Constitution. Sometimes bad-guys get away becasue the constitution got in the way.
I think they could have done this without all the macho grand-standing and "Don't mess with Texas" chants whenever faced with questions about why they decided to overstep their bounds and take all kids without evidence that specifically indicated they were underaged or endangered.
We need to follow rule-of-law.
re: angry dad | 12:39 p.m. May 27, 2008
I agree!
hey | 1:05 p.m. May 27, 2008
watch 20/20 tonight!!!!! FLDS that don't have televisions...go to the abc
website and watch it there.
ooops | 1:07 p.m. May 27, 2008
the polygamy special is on 48 hours...cbs-sorry
48 hours tonight! | 1:15 p.m. May 27, 2008
they ask willie jessop about any underage marriages, he says; "not that I
know about" hahahahaha
Grandpa Phil | 1:20 p.m. May 27, 2008
To "Mad Granny", "a little rough" in no way describes what
CPS did to these children and mothers. They have been traumatized beyond
measure and that abuse will continue as long as the children are in the hands of
CPS. I thought we were in America and had the right to move anywhere we want -
that is, unless you are under the control of CPS and they decide where and when.
Everyone keeps harping about all of the abuse these children experience under
the hand of all of these "dirty old men" but CPS has failed to
document any of that. If it was out there and was that prevelant, wouldn't
CPS have documented it in Court by now if for no other reason than to justify
their actions somehow? WHere are the charges? If anyone broke the law, CHARGE
somebody and get them out of there; however, return the children to their
mothers before more harm than good is done by CPS.
Isn't it ironic? | 1:24 p.m. May 27, 2008
I think it's very ironic that one of the main claims of abuse from Texas
CPS was that people in the YFZ Ranch (especially children) were cut off from the
outside (no cable TV, not news papers, no internet, etc)... So what is the
first thing Texas does when they take the 450+ kids away from their opressors???
Take away their cell-phones and isolate them! Isn't that exactly what
they were accusing the abusive parents of doing?
Doesn't anybody see a problem with that?
If they were so cut off from the outside... Where did they get the cell phones?
Especially disturbing is... Texas misrepresented the reason for taking all cell-phones from FLDS people, saying it was because they may find out what to say from their leaders, when it is more than obvious they only acted when some FLDS people contacted the media using their cell phones to report the abhorant conditions in Texas custody.
What right does Texas have to take away ANYBODY's cell phone who has not been charged with a crime? To isolate them, to prevent them from communicating whith lawyers, media or whoever they want to?
And yet, many keep saying, "Way to go Texas"!
Doesn't anybody see a problem with that?
If they were so cut off from the outside... Where did they get the cell phones?
Especially disturbing is... Texas misrepresented the reason for taking all cell-phones from FLDS people, saying it was because they may find out what to say from their leaders, when it is more than obvious they only acted when some FLDS people contacted the media using their cell phones to report the abhorant conditions in Texas custody.
What right does Texas have to take away ANYBODY's cell phone who has not been charged with a crime? To isolate them, to prevent them from communicating whith lawyers, media or whoever they want to?
And yet, many keep saying, "Way to go Texas"!
Now we know | 1:40 p.m. May 27, 2008
"not that I know about"
What a weasel answer from Willie Jessop. This is a very tight community. Does Willie really expect us to believe that if there was even one underage marriage he wouldn't know about it?
He knows that there are underage marriages, so he answers with the standard "I don't know" answer, so there won't be any video proof that he was lying when the truth comes out.
What a weasel answer from Willie Jessop. This is a very tight community. Does Willie really expect us to believe that if there was even one underage marriage he wouldn't know about it?
He knows that there are underage marriages, so he answers with the standard "I don't know" answer, so there won't be any video proof that he was lying when the truth comes out.
Silver Fox says... | 2:14 p.m. May 27, 2008
Re: Listen | 8:51 a.m. May 27, 2008
This my second attempt to respond to your post. I guess the monitors have it in for Silver Fox, or better yet, comments are allowed, but not discussion.
Polygamy may be spoken of in the bible, however I'm not sure that is the answer. From whom did the FLDS receive authority to practice polygamy.
Polygamy is tough to understand among the LDS prior to the manifesto. Please don't tell me that after the manifesto it comes from Warren Jeffs.
This my second attempt to respond to your post. I guess the monitors have it in for Silver Fox, or better yet, comments are allowed, but not discussion.
Polygamy may be spoken of in the bible, however I'm not sure that is the answer. From whom did the FLDS receive authority to practice polygamy.
Polygamy is tough to understand among the LDS prior to the manifesto. Please don't tell me that after the manifesto it comes from Warren Jeffs.
chartelle | 2:38 p.m. May 27, 2008
I started my blog on behalf of FLDS right after the state's action. I am
pentecostal, not mormon. I am not so much a lover of FLDS as I am a lover of the
constitution. Any action, under color of law, should begin with an investigation
into a suspected wrongdoing...and,then,obtain admissible evidence that may or
may not support a prosecution.The latter would best be determined through the
mechanism of a grand jury proceeding.
What has happened in this case(in my opinion)has been that CPS has abused the statute(Family Code 262.201) under which they can operate with a much lower threshold of proof than is ordinarily required of either a civil or criminal case. I suppose the
legislature trusted that CPS officials would use that statute with integrity - and in a reasonable and prudent manner to achieve the objective of intervening to protect the health and safety of a child. This case, in particular, proves that such legislative trust was misplaced. CPS has been in a conspiracy with other law enforcement agencies to storm that compound using the pretext of seeking a captive minor - which they knew to be a hoax.
What has happened in this case(in my opinion)has been that CPS has abused the statute(Family Code 262.201) under which they can operate with a much lower threshold of proof than is ordinarily required of either a civil or criminal case. I suppose the
legislature trusted that CPS officials would use that statute with integrity - and in a reasonable and prudent manner to achieve the objective of intervening to protect the health and safety of a child. This case, in particular, proves that such legislative trust was misplaced. CPS has been in a conspiracy with other law enforcement agencies to storm that compound using the pretext of seeking a captive minor - which they knew to be a hoax.
R | 2:46 p.m. May 27, 2008
//These men should be prosecuted! //
Which men? Got any names?
//Time to shut the religious prison down.//
You have an odd definition of "prison".
//take action against both ordinary and serial polygamy. Serial polygamy is a rising menace in which children become pawns. //
Good luck with that, since it means all but eliminating legal divorce.
//It wouldn't be a bit surprising, to learn that some of these bloggers are the child abusers //
Keep telling yourself that; the facts are otherwise.
//The child rapists will celebrate and the little girls, who will to become their child brides, will be groomed to be their sex slaves.//
And your evidence of that is...?
//Why not use it?//
You want illegally obtained evidence to be admissible? When such a precedent can have disastrous effects for the civil liberties of all Americans?
//How can anyone justify a 14 y/o girl marrying a 50+ y/o man?//
Which marriage are you referring to?
//how long would it be before they were moved somewhere else ?//
Who the heck cares?
//We need to follow rule-of-law. //
If only the rabidly anti-FLDS people would realize that!
Which men? Got any names?
//Time to shut the religious prison down.//
You have an odd definition of "prison".
//take action against both ordinary and serial polygamy. Serial polygamy is a rising menace in which children become pawns. //
Good luck with that, since it means all but eliminating legal divorce.
//It wouldn't be a bit surprising, to learn that some of these bloggers are the child abusers //
Keep telling yourself that; the facts are otherwise.
//The child rapists will celebrate and the little girls, who will to become their child brides, will be groomed to be their sex slaves.//
And your evidence of that is...?
//Why not use it?//
You want illegally obtained evidence to be admissible? When such a precedent can have disastrous effects for the civil liberties of all Americans?
//How can anyone justify a 14 y/o girl marrying a 50+ y/o man?//
Which marriage are you referring to?
//how long would it be before they were moved somewhere else ?//
Who the heck cares?
//We need to follow rule-of-law. //
If only the rabidly anti-FLDS people would realize that!
Stop it now! | 3:16 p.m. May 27, 2008
This inbreeding has to STOP!
chartelle | 3:17 p.m. May 27, 2008
PROTECTION OF THE CHILDREN?
All of the state's grievous actions in it's gestapo
tactics, and justifications for such actions, has been touted as doing so to "protect the children".
Regardless of the ages of those mothers(or fathers), those children were secure, sheltered and living in an environment of love and happiness.
When the state tore those children away from
their parents, they could not possibly process or
understand what was happening to them. Most
will feel that they have done something wrong
...and will feel the anguish of guilt and fear in
being separated from that bonding. With a strange environment the child is even more frightened and confused.
Finally,it is reported by the mental health workers that, instead of trying to comfort those children, the behavior of the CPS staff toward those children and mothers is unbelievably mean, uncaring and nasty. They are being treated as inmates in a maximum security prison.
Is this child protection?
All of the state's grievous actions in it's gestapo
tactics, and justifications for such actions, has been touted as doing so to "protect the children".
Regardless of the ages of those mothers(or fathers), those children were secure, sheltered and living in an environment of love and happiness.
When the state tore those children away from
their parents, they could not possibly process or
understand what was happening to them. Most
will feel that they have done something wrong
...and will feel the anguish of guilt and fear in
being separated from that bonding. With a strange environment the child is even more frightened and confused.
Finally,it is reported by the mental health workers that, instead of trying to comfort those children, the behavior of the CPS staff toward those children and mothers is unbelievably mean, uncaring and nasty. They are being treated as inmates in a maximum security prison.
Is this child protection?
John Lambert | 3:41 p.m. May 27, 2008
If the person who mentioned "sexually molested" meant the pictures
of Warren Jeffs kissing the girl, I think they are overstating the case. Such
kissing of a 12-year-old is not a behavior I would condone on the part of a
49-year-old, and if I ever have a daughter I would definantly not tolerate any
adult man kissing her that way when she is still a minor.
Still, I do not think the picture alone could prove a case for sexual molestation, although it would go a long ways towards getting a jury to convict.
I am more worried that the nature of the way the warrant was obtained will disqualify the evidence found in the raid.
The problem that Texas will face, as Utah and Arizona have, is it is hard to prosecute those who have sexual relations with minors when neither the minor nor the minor's parents feel that a crime has been committed.
Still, I do not think the picture alone could prove a case for sexual molestation, although it would go a long ways towards getting a jury to convict.
I am more worried that the nature of the way the warrant was obtained will disqualify the evidence found in the raid.
The problem that Texas will face, as Utah and Arizona have, is it is hard to prosecute those who have sexual relations with minors when neither the minor nor the minor's parents feel that a crime has been committed.
John Lambert | 3:43 p.m. May 27, 2008
To John B:
The women know that these men are already married. The FLDS hold that to recieve full exaltation a man must have three wives. This, personally I hold to be false doctrine, but to deal with them you have to realize they hold this view.
The women know that these men are already married. The FLDS hold that to recieve full exaltation a man must have three wives. This, personally I hold to be false doctrine, but to deal with them you have to realize they hold this view.
chartelle | 3:48 p.m. May 27, 2008
PROTECTION OF THE CHILDREN?
The state's grievous tactics and actions has been touted as doing so the "protect the children".
Regardless of the age of those mothers(or fathers)the children were secure, sheltered and living in an environment of love and happiness. They were bonded to their mothers,and/or mothers as the case may be.
When the state tore those children away from their parents, they could not possibly process or understand what was happening to them. Most will feel that they must have done something wrong..and will feel the anguish of guilty and fear. Add to that a strange and unfamiliar environment and the child is even more frightened and confused.
Then, reports come out from the mental health workers that the CPS staff is treating those mothers and children unbelievably cruel and nasty...as though they are inmates in a maximum security prison. One girl's baby was kidnapped as soon as she delivered - with no chance to bond with that baby...or breast feed the infant.
Is this what CPS considers to be protection of the children?
The state's grievous tactics and actions has been touted as doing so the "protect the children".
Regardless of the age of those mothers(or fathers)the children were secure, sheltered and living in an environment of love and happiness. They were bonded to their mothers,and/or mothers as the case may be.
When the state tore those children away from their parents, they could not possibly process or understand what was happening to them. Most will feel that they must have done something wrong..and will feel the anguish of guilty and fear. Add to that a strange and unfamiliar environment and the child is even more frightened and confused.
Then, reports come out from the mental health workers that the CPS staff is treating those mothers and children unbelievably cruel and nasty...as though they are inmates in a maximum security prison. One girl's baby was kidnapped as soon as she delivered - with no chance to bond with that baby...or breast feed the infant.
Is this what CPS considers to be protection of the children?
Anonymous | 4:42 p.m. May 27, 2008
What I don't understand is how any woman could consent to this 3 wife rule.
If you want a girlfriend to hang out with, you can always make friends with
your neighbor, one that has her own husband.
Even if I were single, I would not want to join in someone else's marriage just for the sake of being married.
Even if I were single, I would not want to join in someone else's marriage just for the sake of being married.
chartelle | 4:44 p.m. May 27, 2008
don't worry...very soon that baby will have a chance to bond with an adult.
say in like 12- 13 years
re;grandpa phil | 4:50 p.m. May 27, 2008
would you give one of your 3 daughters to some 50 year old in 'spiritual
marriage?
David Greer | 5:35 p.m. May 27, 2008
Oh Joseph Smith. Look at the mess you started with your revelation on celestial
marriage. It just won't go away.
Alfredo | 5:41 p.m. May 27, 2008
In Europe this news about FSLD sect is taken very seriously; the rights of
children, of women, and of course, also of religion.
The main enemy of free speech is somehow free speech itself
It's very depressing, although I think it was a good decision not to keep the children collectively away from there mothers.
By the way; where are the fathers.........??
The writers of the USA constitution have been closely looking in the past at the Dutch "declaration of independence", while being occupied by the Spanish armies.
The very delicate mix in both constitutions about freedom, equality, dignity of children and safety makes it necessary for any new generation to re-invent the right balance, just because by not doing so, children � girls and boys � and women are over and over again the first victims considered their dignity.
I know that Europe is a lot to blame;
Colonization, slavery, two world wars and a holocaust.
Also two unimaginable incest drama�s in Austria these days.(24 years below the floor,incl.4 children of his own lockes up daughter).
Natasha Kampush (8 years locked up somewhere else) has told the BBC that she thinks she can be of any help.
Alfredo, Amsterdam.
The main enemy of free speech is somehow free speech itself
It's very depressing, although I think it was a good decision not to keep the children collectively away from there mothers.
By the way; where are the fathers.........??
The writers of the USA constitution have been closely looking in the past at the Dutch "declaration of independence", while being occupied by the Spanish armies.
The very delicate mix in both constitutions about freedom, equality, dignity of children and safety makes it necessary for any new generation to re-invent the right balance, just because by not doing so, children � girls and boys � and women are over and over again the first victims considered their dignity.
I know that Europe is a lot to blame;
Colonization, slavery, two world wars and a holocaust.
Also two unimaginable incest drama�s in Austria these days.(24 years below the floor,incl.4 children of his own lockes up daughter).
Natasha Kampush (8 years locked up somewhere else) has told the BBC that she thinks she can be of any help.
Alfredo, Amsterdam.
Texas dreaming up lies | 6:01 p.m. May 27, 2008
Enter commentI no longer have any faith in the law
The Judicial system is controled by CRIMINALS
The Judicial system is controled by CRIMINALS
All desnews can talk about. | 6:33 p.m. May 27, 2008
Because it looks like the civil proceedings are going down the tube, maybe the
possible criminal might be in order. Of coarse with the higher standard of
evidence, and because there is no evidence, this is all just empty talk.
Boots | 6:47 p.m. May 27, 2008
Can those of you who keep defending the whole idea of polygamy, by using the
bible, please just get over yourselves?
The people in the bible also owned, sold and traded slaves with G-s blessing even!
The first Republican Party platform was right "The platform states that it is "the imperative duty of Congress to prohibit in the territories those twin relics of barbarism-polygamy and slavery."
Quit using a religion to cover your unquenchable thirst for misogynistic abuse, power and control. You're sick barbarians. Plain and simple.
The people in the bible also owned, sold and traded slaves with G-s blessing even!
The first Republican Party platform was right "The platform states that it is "the imperative duty of Congress to prohibit in the territories those twin relics of barbarism-polygamy and slavery."
Quit using a religion to cover your unquenchable thirst for misogynistic abuse, power and control. You're sick barbarians. Plain and simple.
J-man | 6:51 p.m. May 27, 2008
To R:
You want a name to prosecute, try Merril Jessop.
Since Warren Jeffs is already locked up and it's common knowledge that Merril was running the show in Texas for the last 4 years, then he is responsible for the underage marriages in the YFZ too.
That's if Merril will come out from under the rock he is hiding under!
You want a name to prosecute, try Merril Jessop.
Since Warren Jeffs is already locked up and it's common knowledge that Merril was running the show in Texas for the last 4 years, then he is responsible for the underage marriages in the YFZ too.
That's if Merril will come out from under the rock he is hiding under!
Blackbird | 7:15 p.m. May 27, 2008
Sure, the CPS and the FBI knew exactly what they were after when they went in
there. They knew exactly what they were looking for...computers with digital
photos, a bed in the temple. Remember every picture tells a story and every
picture has a negative or is in a computer. They knew what girls to look for
etc. This is just the tip of the iceberg. These were obvious "wedding
pictures" and how many more are there and of what men and girls? The
teenager from Canada supposedly visiting a grandmother when her grandmothers
live in British Columbia and Alberta respectively.
What amazes me if how far the polygamist promoters go in justifying abuse of 12 year old girls by a 52 year old man (Jeffs).
What amazes me if how far the polygamist promoters go in justifying abuse of 12 year old girls by a 52 year old man (Jeffs).
R | 7:43 p.m. May 27, 2008
The Bible doesn't "promote" slavery. The Bible (esp. OT) places
strict limits on slavery (such as a limit of seven years), although not going so
far as banning it.
Re: R | 8:35 p.m. May 27, 2008
I think that what Boots meant, and most people understood, is that you
can't use the Bible as an excuse to live a lifestyle that is abusive or
degrading to another human being in todays world.
Apparently, since then we have learned that all human beings should be treated equally. In earlier times, remember women were not treated as equals. In fact, they could be traded or sold. Same with slaves. We got over that,too.
No need to go back.
Apparently, since then we have learned that all human beings should be treated equally. In earlier times, remember women were not treated as equals. In fact, they could be traded or sold. Same with slaves. We got over that,too.
No need to go back.
Sharon | 10:20 p.m. May 27, 2008
I watched 48 hours this evening and the man who interviewed Big Willie did not
mince word one bit..he lay-ed the cards right on the table....and Willie boy
lost his cool....he showed his true colors ! !...He is such a weasel
Boots | 11:20 p.m. May 27, 2008
"Then why do you want me to answer those questions?" Jessop asks.
"Because your church has been accused of sexually abusing children, that�s why," Van Sant says.
"So has the Catholics, so has any other religion, including Mormons. Should we just take them all down? Is there not a crime committed in any religion? Why do we single it out?" Jessop says."
Isn't it interesting that when cornered they always seem to go back to accusing others of doing wrong. Fortunately that doesn't generally hold up in court as a good defense, 'Hey, some Catholic priest abused little boys, so why shouldn't we be able to rape little girls?'
Polygamy is sexual slavery. Period. You simply raise your victim to believe she can't get to heaven without becoming a concubine. The whole thing is just sick beyond belief and I can't believe we are allowing a modern generation of American women to be turned into sex slaves by these perverts.
I guess Utah, Arizona and the rest of the country can let this happen.
Texans won't.
"Because your church has been accused of sexually abusing children, that�s why," Van Sant says.
"So has the Catholics, so has any other religion, including Mormons. Should we just take them all down? Is there not a crime committed in any religion? Why do we single it out?" Jessop says."
Isn't it interesting that when cornered they always seem to go back to accusing others of doing wrong. Fortunately that doesn't generally hold up in court as a good defense, 'Hey, some Catholic priest abused little boys, so why shouldn't we be able to rape little girls?'
Polygamy is sexual slavery. Period. You simply raise your victim to believe she can't get to heaven without becoming a concubine. The whole thing is just sick beyond belief and I can't believe we are allowing a modern generation of American women to be turned into sex slaves by these perverts.
I guess Utah, Arizona and the rest of the country can let this happen.
Texans won't.
HD | 12:03 a.m. May 28, 2008
Did anyone watch CBS 48 Hours tonight. The interviews with people who have
escaped from the FLDS are amazing. The people who have left or have been kicked
out all tell of the abuse and control that take place in the FLDS society. I
hope that the viewing public can come to their senses and demand that the crimes
here be punished by the law. People being kicked out of the compound, wives
re-assigned to other men, young men being forced out on their own with little or
no ability to cope with society. Now tell me this is religion. Texas CPS is not
waging a war against a religion, they are wagging war against a repressive
society that has taken the rights away from people. We have only began to
scratch the surface of this problem.
awesomeron | 3:29 a.m. May 28, 2008
They have Rape, Child Molestation, Broken Bones, Forced Marriage and Marriage of
underage girls to old men. The purpose of which is to impregnate the females.
Mind Control, Brain Washing, Casting Out, Switching of Wives and Children from
one male to another. Incest, Inbreeding, Race Hate, that is what they have among
other things. If you put children in an unsafe environment when stuff happens to
them, the blood is on your hands. Did you think that when
Jeff�s went to Jail, that the problems of the people where
over, and the oppressed would be freed, well think again.
christin | 5:03 a.m. May 28, 2008
These poor young girls indoctrinated into the church of rape. The U.S. needs to
step in and let all of these brainwashed mothers, wives, and uh,
sister-wifes?...of the way of the rest of the U.S.
I am very curious how the influx of money to all of these wives and inter-families work. How are the tax dollars being applied, when they are seeming to have government contracts, and running a town.
I also wonder, why (well, not so much) they do not want their children to 'know the impurity of the outsiders'...when it seems that all of them are ...at best...first or second cousins intermingling and reproducing.
There are laws broken right there.
Never mind that so many have 2 or 3 children by the time they are 17 or 18...statutory rape.
DNA
DNA
DNA
The result is going to be absolutely gross and horrific...this much I already know.
I am very curious how the influx of money to all of these wives and inter-families work. How are the tax dollars being applied, when they are seeming to have government contracts, and running a town.
I also wonder, why (well, not so much) they do not want their children to 'know the impurity of the outsiders'...when it seems that all of them are ...at best...first or second cousins intermingling and reproducing.
There are laws broken right there.
Never mind that so many have 2 or 3 children by the time they are 17 or 18...statutory rape.
DNA
DNA
DNA
The result is going to be absolutely gross and horrific...this much I already know.
Grandpa Phil | 7:08 a.m. May 28, 2008
To: "re; grandpa phil", I will answer your dumb question. I offer any
of the FLDS families sanctuary against unjust and illegal persecution and denial
of familial rights. I never said I did not have a problem with a pre-teen
marrying a 50 yr old man. In all of these proceedings, none of us has yet been
made aware of any such marriage going on in the FLDS group either. All we have
heard from CPS and the gainsaying hate-mongers is innuendo and bombastic
allegations served up only to create a firestorm of maniacal hatred against
people who are different. I have talked with these people and I find them
pleasant, intelligent, and caring; characteristics which are sorely lacking
among those trying to take their children away. If one of those families needs
a place where no one will bother them or threaten them, my home is sanctuary.
It is for my family and it can be for theirs too. My daughters are 9, 8, and 19
months and we will not be looking to any weddings for MANY years. I was 43 when
I married my 19 yr old wife 13 years ago. 'Nuff Said. Any more dumb
questions?
COSMO | 7:26 a.m. May 28, 2008
There is a story about someone trying to sell a child, on Craigs List;is Texas
CPS already selling the FLDS children, to the highest bidder? Man that is fast!
Grandpa Phil | 7:37 a.m. May 28, 2008
COSMO, sounds like a good rumor to start. It is better than some of the
fanciful ideas put out in here lately.
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Median age 13.1
Youngest in state 26.8
Youngest in nation
Persons per household 8.55
Largest in state 3.13
Largest in nation
Avg household income* $21,822 $41,316
Per capita income $3,772
Lowest in state $14,492
% of families in poverty 32.4% 11.4%
Average household adjusted gross income from federal tax returns
Source: Utah Tax Commission 1995, US Census, Utah and Arizona Departments of Education.
Colorado City Arizona
Median age 12.5
Youngest in state 32.2
Persons per household 7.97
Largest in state 2.62
Avg household income* $19,663 $35,426
Per capita income $2,319 $13,461
% of families in poverty 61% 11.4%
Hildale received $405,006 from federal housing grants to remodel 19 homes on FLDS land. And Hildale Mayor David K. Zitting, an FLDS member, was appointed by two Utah governors (Republicans Norm Bangerter and Mike Leavitt) to sit on the state Housing Development Advisory Council.
In 1998 Hildale ranked last among Utah towns for average payment of federal income taxes paid per filer ($651 annually), but it is first for tax exemptions (3.62).