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Will signing abuse papers come back to haunt FLDS?
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Thomas | 4:28 a.m. May 25, 2008
Yes signing those boilerplate plans will be a problem. You can count on the
state of Texas to fight dirty. They always do.
awesomeron | 4:47 a.m. May 25, 2008
If you did not do something, then do not cave in and sign the papers. Papers
that have been signed by persons over 18 who are not mentally disabled Count and
they should count. Just because you get a highly questionable court ruling in
your favor, later on does not mean what you signed did not count. People that
did not do the crime, take a plea most of the time. Because they are scared of
what might happen. If you stand your ground the State has got to prove their
case. Often if the manipulation does not work, it is the State that that folds.
Remember The State consists of paid Public Services Employees, who do not have a
personal attachment to anything besides their, Jobs, Retirement, Promotion,
Family, Faith Group and Social Network. Perhaps not exactly in that order. They
themselves may be victims of Abusive or less then Stellar Personal
Relationships. You do not quit the game just because you Lost Your Queen. You
wait for your opponent to make a mistake. Example the recent Court Ruling. You
have to endure to the end and see what pieces fall and what opens up. You may
Win.
Comments continue below
Leroy G. | 5:25 a.m. May 25, 2008
1. I understand the
A. A child is at risk of abuse and or neglect as determined by DFPS;
B. A child has been removed from his/her home and placed in DFPS care or
C. A child formerly in DFPS care is in danger of being returned to DFPS care.
>>> actually it says one of the following. A B C. etc. I see no admission of anything by signing this acknowledgement formm.
A. A child is at risk of abuse and or neglect as determined by DFPS;
B. A child has been removed from his/her home and placed in DFPS care or
C. A child formerly in DFPS care is in danger of being returned to DFPS care.
>>> actually it says one of the following. A B C. etc. I see no admission of anything by signing this acknowledgement formm.
Won't hold up | 5:33 a.m. May 25, 2008
If the parents conceded abuse and neglect, why would CPS give the children back?
The action of returning the children prove the paperwork invalid. It won't
hold up in court since it is coercive and signed under duress.
No Douught | 5:42 a.m. May 25, 2008
Texas is as dirty as the Judicial system in Utah
The people are doing something to get their children back
This admission is a dirty trick of the State
The people are doing something to get their children back
This admission is a dirty trick of the State
kg | 6:18 a.m. May 25, 2008
Those parents signed those papers under duress. It was coercion as real as if
they had a gun to their heads.
Single Mom of 3 | 6:24 a.m. May 25, 2008
I have delt with CPS many times because of my special needs children. I would
never sign anything that accuses me of abuse. I truly feel for these parents and
I would tell them to not sign anything that would allow the courts to come back
and say that they are guilty and take their children again. These poor kids have
been through enough and should be given back to the families and CPS should keep
their nose out of religious matters. God is the only one that can truly judge
us. He is the one that can see what is going on. Texas needs to get their act
together and give the kids back. the families have been through enough.
I have not seen evidence | 6:29 a.m. May 25, 2008
CM, I have not seen real concrete evidence of abuse. A photo of Jeffs with a
young girl? Do you know how many photo's of men I have with my daughter?
Grandfathers hugging my daughter. Uncles. close friends of our family. So, by
Texas standards, I can't take my kids to that state, because they are
'abused'?
Please.
I'm not condoning abuse in any form at all. I'm not FLDS. But I think Texas and Judge walther has over played it's hand. I hope they get their heads handed to them on a silver platter by the Texas SC.
Please.
I'm not condoning abuse in any form at all. I'm not FLDS. But I think Texas and Judge walther has over played it's hand. I hope they get their heads handed to them on a silver platter by the Texas SC.
Bruce | 7:03 a.m. May 25, 2008
The millions of dollars that this is going to cost the taxpayers of Texas is
staggering.
Hey awesomeron | 7:04 a.m. May 25, 2008
I have children and I would sign my soul to the devil himself to get my children
returned.
Eyes on Prize | 7:44 a.m. May 25, 2008
In the stumble to give the children back, the bit that no one wants to discuss
is...some of them most decidedly were abused. Most of them, probably. We've
got to get past the 'wholesome and uplifting' image of religious white
folks dressed as little house on the prairie cast who can do no wrong. The sex
that goes on in those religious prisons can't be voluntary.
What can be done in the name of religion has to be curtailed somewhere. Somewhere before what these people do is acceptable.
What can be done in the name of religion has to be curtailed somewhere. Somewhere before what these people do is acceptable.
return the children | 7:52 a.m. May 25, 2008
Can you imagine if Judge who called for round up of all the children if others
called in to cps and claimed abuse ???/ And the CPS workers themselves have a
very bad history of abuse themselves. The FLDS are being prosecuted and
persecuted and it is an OUTRAGE WE LDS DO NOTHING....we are discendants of
polygamous kin for goodness sakes..these poor saints, the women, were under
duress, I agree, can't wait for the whole state of Texas to be sued and for
the feminist judge to be thrown out, de barred...it is so obvious cps spam this
board and pic of Jeffs with the girl: absolutely fabricated, i am senior
citizen photographer, and all FABRICATED. Return the children to their
mothers....The Feminists are outraged some women want to be stay HOME MOTHERS.
deep respect to the flds women....Not for any wrongdoing, but I don't see
any, neither does CPS. boy, we LDS truly hate these saints, don't we?
I hate abuse, but.... | 8:19 a.m. May 25, 2008
Of course they were tricked and coerced. Let's hope if there are criminal
charges the judge will throw that out because of the circumstances. Parents
take desperate measures when it comes to getting their children back under such
conditions. This whole debacle will hopefully teach Texas a thing or two about
constitutional rights and due process. Hopefully CPS will get off their high
horse and do things in a more appropriate manner with the goal of preserving
families; not tearing them apart.
Yes, proceed with real allegations of abuse on a case-by-case basis but taking a child from a non-abusive parent is even greater abuse by the government and its agencies (CPS, courts, etc.) Someone needs to be monitoring the added abuse and mental trauma, as well as expenses, this mess is costing. Somehow government agencies are protected and allowed to break laws others are expected to abide by. People are guilty until proven innocent (and this has involved hundreds; not just one or two). I am embarrassed about this whole mess but I am a vocal and active opponent to abuse of women and children by violent, threatening or controlling partners, whatever religion. Running over rights is not helping.
Yes, proceed with real allegations of abuse on a case-by-case basis but taking a child from a non-abusive parent is even greater abuse by the government and its agencies (CPS, courts, etc.) Someone needs to be monitoring the added abuse and mental trauma, as well as expenses, this mess is costing. Somehow government agencies are protected and allowed to break laws others are expected to abide by. People are guilty until proven innocent (and this has involved hundreds; not just one or two). I am embarrassed about this whole mess but I am a vocal and active opponent to abuse of women and children by violent, threatening or controlling partners, whatever religion. Running over rights is not helping.
Old Geezer in Vegas | 8:35 a.m. May 25, 2008
There is a problem in trying to hold these agreements against the parents. In
the purely legal aspect the papers might hold water. But every honest person in
the USA that has followed this case knows they were signed under duress. CPS
said, �Sign these papers or you may never see your kids
again.� If it were one or two cases they might get away
with it. But with this many people involved it would probably blow up in their
face in the court of public opinion, the same court they tried to try this in.
BFN | 9:30 a.m. May 25, 2008
Every honest person in the U.S. knows these kids are in grave danger in they are
returned to the ungodly circumstances in which they lived. Some on here amaze
me. Lost boys? Heard of them? Oh, that was made up. Numerous testimonies from
women who escaped? Oh, those were made up too. So just return the children to a
situation where girls will be raised to mindlessly obey men who they are ordered
by a "prophet" to marry, where boys will be taught that women and
children have no rights and can be beaten and humiliated with impugnity.
Right-thinking people can only hope the state of Texas stands strong.
Freedom Mann | 9:32 a.m. May 25, 2008
"Eyes On The Prize," if you want to do some complaining, go to where
there are single moms who live in a world of Rap and "MTV Culture,"
X-Boxes and teen access to internet porn.
Where is your condemnation of "sexual prison" in places like this?
Obviously, you and too many other people (including the CPS) all consider this the "norm;" a bunch of white folks right out of 'Little House On The Prairie" seems weird to you and Must Be PUNISHED.
PS, I am an Atheistic Jew from New York City and a bona-fide "Red Diaper Doper Baby;" this whole FLDS case just smacks of McCarthyism; it's just another witchunt.
Where is your condemnation of "sexual prison" in places like this?
Obviously, you and too many other people (including the CPS) all consider this the "norm;" a bunch of white folks right out of 'Little House On The Prairie" seems weird to you and Must Be PUNISHED.
PS, I am an Atheistic Jew from New York City and a bona-fide "Red Diaper Doper Baby;" this whole FLDS case just smacks of McCarthyism; it's just another witchunt.
Honest Person | 10:03 a.m. May 25, 2008
I am an honest person and I do not find the children in grave danger. The court
psychiatrist also found the children not in grave danger. The FLDS expert that
testified also stated that the children were not in grave danger. While there
are some women that left the FLDS church, they did not testify. Ask yourself
why not. Many additional women left the FLDS to return, while others left
without harboring ill feelings. What of those women? Do you choose to ignore
their experiences for the few that are anti? Stick with the facts over gossip.
Anonymous | 10:04 a.m. May 25, 2008
Those Children should be removed from the homes for nothing more than simply
neglect of the mind. They (FLDS) create mindless children. Come down here to
Southern Utah, and meet some. They have zero interpersonal skills, and are
taught that the whole world is against them. Although I think that the matter
was handled very poorly, in the end, it will be good to let the pligs know, that
they arent above the law. Maybe some of those kids will be introduced to the
idea that not everyone on the outside is evil. Maybe Some free thought will
introduced.
Get Real! | 10:07 a.m. May 25, 2008
C'mon folks, who on this forum really believes these documents will stand
up in the Supreme court given that they were signed under duress, and coercive
emotional pressure?
Who really believes that the summary taking of a whole community's children into custody without due process on a child-by-child, case-by-case basis will be upheld by the Supreme court as a 'lawful' and acceptable to the court action?
Texas has created a legal morass for itself on this one, not too dissimilar to how the Bush administration has dealt with this nation's economy, etc.
Remember, every village has its idiot, and there's a village in Texas that's been missing its village idiot for the past seven years.
Who really believes that the summary taking of a whole community's children into custody without due process on a child-by-child, case-by-case basis will be upheld by the Supreme court as a 'lawful' and acceptable to the court action?
Texas has created a legal morass for itself on this one, not too dissimilar to how the Bush administration has dealt with this nation's economy, etc.
Remember, every village has its idiot, and there's a village in Texas that's been missing its village idiot for the past seven years.
mypc | 10:09 a.m. May 25, 2008
I must be dumb cause I still cannot tell who is cps and just mean folks.But let
it be known that under duress is the term used to force parents to sign plans.
they hold the card that says sign or we terminate your parental rights. The cps
thinks this is a game them MUST win.They go home to their kids and sleep very
well. Unless someone can show me a perfect parent then drop your abuse of these
parents.Inform them of the laws they have to obey and then go away cps. I am not
against kids in foster care since my daughters best friend has 3 sisters and i
am the grandma for them.But we are talking about abandoned kids of a proven
druggie mom and dad who survive due to mom being a hooker.
Sharon | 10:11 a.m. May 25, 2008
To Bruce,
I dont mind at all the tax dollars I pay in every year paying to help these children. What I dont like is being con'd out of my money being used to support all the FLDS women and children because of the FLDS dead beat dads.
I dont mind at all the tax dollars I pay in every year paying to help these children. What I dont like is being con'd out of my money being used to support all the FLDS women and children because of the FLDS dead beat dads.
Anonymous | 10:46 a.m. May 25, 2008
What about deadbeat MOTHERS? I know one of those? And I bet there is more than 1
parent out there who wises they could have arranged some of their childrens
marriageses. I have 3 in my family dicorced and 1 one her 2nd bad marriage. And
the children suffer because of those bad choices.
realitycheck | 10:50 a.m. May 25, 2008
The mothers have been raised from birth to believe that as soon as their
daughters are old enough to have a child, they should get married and begin
"producing". That's around 13-14 years old.
It happened to them, it happened to their mothers, and it will happen to their daughters.
All we can hope is that somewhere in the back of some of these mothers minds they still have some semblance of concience of what's right and wrong. Most don't, but perhaps some do.
FLDS mothers - this is your chance to break your family free from the circle of servitude that the men have encased your family in for more than 100 years. Some of you must know deep down that what is happening to your children, and will happen to their children, is WRONG.
Take the opportunity that Texas is giving you. They are trying to help you break free from the chains the men have held you in for so long.
Don't let this opportunity slip by.
Try to remember how you felt when it happened to you. Do you really want that for your innocent daughters?
PLEASE - save your children - get out now.
It happened to them, it happened to their mothers, and it will happen to their daughters.
All we can hope is that somewhere in the back of some of these mothers minds they still have some semblance of concience of what's right and wrong. Most don't, but perhaps some do.
FLDS mothers - this is your chance to break your family free from the circle of servitude that the men have encased your family in for more than 100 years. Some of you must know deep down that what is happening to your children, and will happen to their children, is WRONG.
Take the opportunity that Texas is giving you. They are trying to help you break free from the chains the men have held you in for so long.
Don't let this opportunity slip by.
Try to remember how you felt when it happened to you. Do you really want that for your innocent daughters?
PLEASE - save your children - get out now.
Anonymous | 10:51 a.m. May 25, 2008
Boy, my spelling is bad. I'll start over. I know a deadbeat MOTHER. And I
bet there is more than one parent who wishes they could arranged the marriages
for some of their children. I have 3 divorces and one on her 2nd bad marriage.
The children suffer with divorce court . One grandaughter told the judge she
would rather be in lockup than live with her mother. And all the guardian ad
lidium tried to do was make her change her mind as it wasn't natural for
the kids to want to live with the father. She tried very hard to get the father
out of the childrn's lives. It didn't work.
re - anonymous 10:51am | 11:00 a.m. May 25, 2008
so your answer to all of this is arranged marriages?
what is wrong with you people?
what is wrong with you people?
Dave38 | 11:07 a.m. May 25, 2008
The seizure of FLDS children may play out in one of two ways. The Texas Supreme
Court can reject the claims of the CPS and the children will soon begin to be
returned to their mothers. Another scenario is that the Texas Supreme Court
upholds the CPS request. In this case, the state of Texas has a situation on
its hands that will last for years, involve intense litigation, and engender
contining negative publicity. I am not aware of a single case in modern world
history where over 450 children have been forcibly taken from their mothers.
Texas Governor Rick Perry erred in not stopping the CPS appeal. He should hope
the Supreme Court rules againt the CPS. No society will long permit the
wholesale abduction of children.
Gal50 | 11:13 a.m. May 25, 2008
It must be hard for these mothers to assess a confusing situation. There were
too many things going on with this case. Even the lawyers could not agree on
what to do.
I have to agree with Rod Parker who seems to be a sharp attorney. Obviously, these papers were signed under duress. Often courts make the parent claim that they are not signing under duress. I don't know whether this was done here.
Barbara Jessop is in a unique position because there is someone who is credible and willing to testify against Barbara to the abuse, which she witnessed. In Barbara's case, it seems her lawyer was smart in not having her sign the papers.
The problem with not signing the papers and moving on with the plan is that there is not much time to accomplish all of the tasks set out by CPS. Delaying the onset of plan implementation may create a delay in getting the kids back. On the other hand there was an outstanding appellate court case.
In hindsight, it may have been best to indicate to the court that you intended to follow the plan even though you could not sign it now.
I have to agree with Rod Parker who seems to be a sharp attorney. Obviously, these papers were signed under duress. Often courts make the parent claim that they are not signing under duress. I don't know whether this was done here.
Barbara Jessop is in a unique position because there is someone who is credible and willing to testify against Barbara to the abuse, which she witnessed. In Barbara's case, it seems her lawyer was smart in not having her sign the papers.
The problem with not signing the papers and moving on with the plan is that there is not much time to accomplish all of the tasks set out by CPS. Delaying the onset of plan implementation may create a delay in getting the kids back. On the other hand there was an outstanding appellate court case.
In hindsight, it may have been best to indicate to the court that you intended to follow the plan even though you could not sign it now.
to Dave38 | 11:19 a.m. May 25, 2008
you're right - no society will long permit the wholesale abduction of
children.
that's why the supreme court will find for CPS. To prevent the abduction by FLDS of these innocent children - by FLDS abusers. FLDS finds the children to be property, Texas simply finds them to be innocent and needing protection.
that's why the supreme court will find for CPS. To prevent the abduction by FLDS of these innocent children - by FLDS abusers. FLDS finds the children to be property, Texas simply finds them to be innocent and needing protection.
Anonymous | 11:24 a.m. May 25, 2008
The anti flds bigots here screaming about child abuse while endorsing the abuses
of the CPS are hypocrits. If there is abuse prosecute it! I have been following
this case since it began in april and I have yet to see any evidence of so many
of the claims made by a lot of ignorant people. Show me a child born to a 14
year old. a 15 year old... for all the screaming I believe that texas CPS is
unable to demonstrate any births to anyone under 16, tho there may be one in the
history of the sect. I suggest that it is better to stick to the facts and what
IS known rather than to invent propaganda as the CPS has done and as so many
haters of those unlike themselves have done in these comment sections. If there
is a crime prosecute it..if not leave others with different beliefs alone.
Anonymous | 11:26 a.m. May 25, 2008
No ,I'm saying I would like to arranged a couple of my kids marriages. I
admit I don't know all the answers.
Anonymous | 11:56 a.m. May 25, 2008
return the children 7:52: "the feminists are outraged"
___________________
Which feminists did you poll? Certainly not me. I was a homemaker homeschooler for 30 years AND an activist feminist. There would be no 800 no.'s for women and children to call but for the work we did to make this society address those problems. Getting child support across state lines and as unremitting debt another as well. All my feminist friends have raised families AND contributed in the society at large. Our agenda was and is for women to make their own choices as adults and to have equal rights under the law with men. You don't know what any feminist thinks unless you ask one. You certainly have not bothered to ask me.
___________________
Which feminists did you poll? Certainly not me. I was a homemaker homeschooler for 30 years AND an activist feminist. There would be no 800 no.'s for women and children to call but for the work we did to make this society address those problems. Getting child support across state lines and as unremitting debt another as well. All my feminist friends have raised families AND contributed in the society at large. Our agenda was and is for women to make their own choices as adults and to have equal rights under the law with men. You don't know what any feminist thinks unless you ask one. You certainly have not bothered to ask me.
Short Creek | 12:41 p.m. May 25, 2008
Dave38 | 11:07 a.m. May 25, 2008 said "I am not aware of a single case in
modern world history where over 450 children have been forcibly taken from their
mothers." I still consider 1953 to be modern history and in that FLDS Raid
in Short Creek, Arizona, the State of Arizona swooped down with over 1000 law
enforcement officers and National Guard and took over 400 individuals into
custody, including over 200 children. People try to say the Short Creek raid
was all about Polygamy, but I was living in Arizona back then - yep, I'm
that old - and the Governor of Arizona Pile said his reason was to combat
"the foulest conspiracy you could possibly imagine. (A)community
dedi�cated to the production of white slaves who are
without hope of es�caping this degrading slavery from the
moment of their birth. He further cited "Fraud and Insurrection".
to Anonymous 11:24 | 12:51 p.m. May 25, 2008
Lets do DNA testing to see how many of the children were fathered by CPS
workers. Or how many of the CPS workers have given birth as a teenager younger
than 18. The CPS workers have a job to do. LET THEM DO IT!!!!! Have you
considered that they are having trouble getting the DNA of all of the fathers
that high tailed it out of the compound so they wouldn't have to give DNA
samples.
wrz | 1:21 p.m. May 25, 2008
"In the stumble to give the children back, the bit that no one wants to
discuss is...some of them most decidedly were abused. Most of them,
probably."
What abuse? There was no physical harm or imminent endangerment found by the CPS raiders.
The abuse alleged by the state had to do with church teachings.
That's why the appellate ruled as it did.
What abuse? There was no physical harm or imminent endangerment found by the CPS raiders.
The abuse alleged by the state had to do with church teachings.
That's why the appellate ruled as it did.
sosueme534 | 1:22 p.m. May 25, 2008
I am not FLDS nor morman I am just a mother, I can not believe any of you who
ARE mothers can think for one minute that this is right. I for one realize that
if they came and took these kids they can do it to anyone, for no reason. no
proof is required here then no proof will bew required when they come for your
children. Think carefully about this, could you just forget you had your kids
because someone as a hoax called and said you were a bad parent? So CPS just
comes in and takes your kids. If they do not have to prove anything then the
kids are gone given to new parents with no recourse. What we allow our out of
control government to get away with here will most likely be used on us at a
later date. This country was built on the premise of freedom and constitutional
laws that apply to all. If we let this unconstitutional action continue it is us
who will ultimeatly pay and we will pay dearly for our lack of defense of this
community. GIVE THOSE CHILDREN BACK!!!!!! NOW
Old Geezer in Vegas | 1:38 p.m. May 25, 2008
The Authorities have said that even if the children are returned they will
prosecute with the evidence they have.
That evidence was obtained how?
It was a military style raid to find Dale Barlow and the elusive Sara.
The judge�s warrant allowed the Gestapo style sheriff to not only look for the two people named in the warrant but to round up (i.e. kidnap) all women and children and haul them off to be held for questioning. Also it gave the sheriff permission to enter at gunpoint the house of worship and seize all records of the church. In addition to that, it gave permission to search the school and every house in the compound to find any document or pictures that might help law enforcement prosecute these people. This was just a fishing expedition by the law to find some way to get at the FLDS. So everything found in this raid should be thrown out of evidence including the interviews with the women and children as they were obtained under false pretences!!!! The Judge that ordered all this, the sheriff that conducted the raid and the CPS should all be held accountable.
That evidence was obtained how?
It was a military style raid to find Dale Barlow and the elusive Sara.
The judge�s warrant allowed the Gestapo style sheriff to not only look for the two people named in the warrant but to round up (i.e. kidnap) all women and children and haul them off to be held for questioning. Also it gave the sheriff permission to enter at gunpoint the house of worship and seize all records of the church. In addition to that, it gave permission to search the school and every house in the compound to find any document or pictures that might help law enforcement prosecute these people. This was just a fishing expedition by the law to find some way to get at the FLDS. So everything found in this raid should be thrown out of evidence including the interviews with the women and children as they were obtained under false pretences!!!! The Judge that ordered all this, the sheriff that conducted the raid and the CPS should all be held accountable.
Anonymous | 2:58 p.m. May 25, 2008
" Hooray for the Texas authorities who raided the Yearning for Zion ranch
of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Maybe they
can take the girls to Great Clips hair salon and then to the mall for a new pair
of shorts. It's about time someone stepped in to stop this robbery of
precious childhood. "
Yeah, then they can learn intolerance of others' hairstyles and clothing. Could it be that they may be a little more mature because they haven't wasted their "precious childhood" with boys, ipods, cell phones, mall trips, dancing, and tv?
The vast majority of the FLDS marry in their very late teens or early twenties and very, very few of those are to anyone much older than themselves.
That is something one learns through research, not on the tv or cell phone.
Yeah, then they can learn intolerance of others' hairstyles and clothing. Could it be that they may be a little more mature because they haven't wasted their "precious childhood" with boys, ipods, cell phones, mall trips, dancing, and tv?
The vast majority of the FLDS marry in their very late teens or early twenties and very, very few of those are to anyone much older than themselves.
That is something one learns through research, not on the tv or cell phone.
Its all crazy! | 3:11 p.m. May 25, 2008
First of all let me just stat that I AM NOT for underage mar ages or child
abuse in the slightest!
I DO NOT AGREE with the FLDS lifestyle.
What upsets me the most is the lack of evidence for removal of these children. The supreme court of Texas even stated this them selfs.
For all of you that run around here stating that theses mothers should have been cooperative with the Texas cps. Obviously you do not realize 2 things.
1 co-operating with the authority doesn't guarantee you getting your children back
2 obviously you have never herd of the Miranda rights and I quote �anything you do or say can be held against you in the court of law!�
I DO NOT AGREE with the FLDS lifestyle.
What upsets me the most is the lack of evidence for removal of these children. The supreme court of Texas even stated this them selfs.
For all of you that run around here stating that theses mothers should have been cooperative with the Texas cps. Obviously you do not realize 2 things.
1 co-operating with the authority doesn't guarantee you getting your children back
2 obviously you have never herd of the Miranda rights and I quote �anything you do or say can be held against you in the court of law!�
its all crazy 2 | 3:11 p.m. May 25, 2008
come on people cps came in with guns and tanks to get these children what makes
you think that they where going to let the parents keep them if they
co-operated?
But this is getting off topic so I shall return to topic.
These people signing this paper to get there children back is in essence signing a confession.
Yeah if you sign you are admitting you did something wrong! So let the criminal cases beguine,
with mass prison sentences!
But this is getting off topic so I shall return to topic.
These people signing this paper to get there children back is in essence signing a confession.
Yeah if you sign you are admitting you did something wrong! So let the criminal cases beguine,
with mass prison sentences!
its all crazy 3 | 3:14 p.m. May 25, 2008
And don't be so stupid as to think that because you are not FLDS that dcfs
or what ever they call it here
in the state of Utah, don't think that they wont come after you.... because guess what... this case sets a p residence in court. Meaning if dcfs comes after you. You go to court to get your kids back guess what they can use the case in Texas against you.... and just because you don't think you are doing something illegal... do you know all of the laws in the state of Utah? Just think you may lose your kids over a minor violation!
in the state of Utah, don't think that they wont come after you.... because guess what... this case sets a p residence in court. Meaning if dcfs comes after you. You go to court to get your kids back guess what they can use the case in Texas against you.... and just because you don't think you are doing something illegal... do you know all of the laws in the state of Utah? Just think you may lose your kids over a minor violation!
Interloper | 3:47 p.m. May 25, 2008
These two lawyers' interpretation of the parenting clause in the custodial
agreements makes no sense. The point of the clause is that the parents attend
classes to learn what constitutes child abuse. It is not saying the parents have
engaged in specific acts of child abuse themselves. The parents have lived in an
environment of child abuse and need to learn about it or they will not have
sufficient information to stop being complicit.
Bruce | 4:15 p.m. May 25, 2008
I don't read that as an admition of guilt. (of course, I'm not a
lawyer) Besides, the burden of proof is much higher in criminal cases than
civil cases...and they can't even convince anyone, other than that crazy
backwoods judge, that there is any civil case.
Another phenomenon that this has caused that the media hasn't touched was reported to me by a friend who is a member of another polygamist group. He reported being amazed at the influx of people investigating (as in "how would I go about joining?") their church. He says so far it's running about half and half, women and men. This may turn out like Short Creek with a lot of disgruntled LDS folks and others looking to join spiritual communities looking into their beliefs. The FLDS may well come out larger, stronger, and much less naive. Time will tell.
Another phenomenon that this has caused that the media hasn't touched was reported to me by a friend who is a member of another polygamist group. He reported being amazed at the influx of people investigating (as in "how would I go about joining?") their church. He says so far it's running about half and half, women and men. This may turn out like Short Creek with a lot of disgruntled LDS folks and others looking to join spiritual communities looking into their beliefs. The FLDS may well come out larger, stronger, and much less naive. Time will tell.
to its all crazy | 4:47 p.m. May 25, 2008
Thanks you, I agree. Being for the constitution and the law is not being for the
FLDS. I am not for the FLDS, I think they need to make some changes in child
marriages and Warren Jeff really messed things up but that doesn't mean CPS
can come in and take the children of all FLDS. That is simply wrong, immoral,
against the law. That's what we need to uphold or CPS will go wild taking
children from the less fortunate and selling them to the rich through adoption.
Old Geezer in Vegas | 4:54 p.m. May 25, 2008
Somehow I just don�t get it. At least half the people
commenting on any of these comment boards seem to want to believe everything
that Flora Jessop, Carolyn Jessop, Elissa Wall or any of the talk show hosts
that these women are on. Face it people, the more salacious these ex-FLDS
members can make things sound, the more books they sell and more interviews they
get paid to make. (Carolyn Jessop has the paperback edition of her book,
Escape, just coming out and Elissa Wall has a brand new one
that�s been on the bookstand just a couple of weeks) The
more salacious the TV show, the better the ratings!!
If the members are asked about life in the FLDS and say they�re very happy there, some of you state that you can�t believe them because they�re all under educated and brainwashed. The cult (religion) should be done away with.
The appeals court stated �NO EVIDENCE�
The CPS said all the children are in peril because of the �pervasive belief system� of the FLDS.
Religious bigotry is alive and well!!!
If the members are asked about life in the FLDS and say they�re very happy there, some of you state that you can�t believe them because they�re all under educated and brainwashed. The cult (religion) should be done away with.
The appeals court stated �NO EVIDENCE�
The CPS said all the children are in peril because of the �pervasive belief system� of the FLDS.
Religious bigotry is alive and well!!!
All time low | 5:41 p.m. May 25, 2008
Damned if you do Damned if you done. using someones children as collateral to
punish them. I think humanity is at a all time low. I don't know of any
creator on this earth that would treat there own species in this way.
to realitycheck | 5:44 p.m. May 25, 2008
with all do respect realitycheck you need a reality check.
Happy | 6:30 p.m. May 25, 2008
I don't think it matters if they are happy in their religion. If they
abuse or condone/allow abuse to happen in the name of their religion, then it
needs to be stopped, whether it makes them happy or not. If stopping abuse of
children is religious persecution then so be it.
I'll bet a lot of sicko men saw that picture of Warren Jeffs kissing his child bride and thought "how do I sign up for some of that!" The FLDS are not known for their missionary efforts - they try to keep the world OUT, not in. I think it is sad that some polygamists would attempt to "see the good" in 400 children being taken into protective custody. The only good that could come of this is children being saved from rape, women learning what abuse is and how to avoid it, and child molestors being put behind bars.
I'll bet a lot of sicko men saw that picture of Warren Jeffs kissing his child bride and thought "how do I sign up for some of that!" The FLDS are not known for their missionary efforts - they try to keep the world OUT, not in. I think it is sad that some polygamists would attempt to "see the good" in 400 children being taken into protective custody. The only good that could come of this is children being saved from rape, women learning what abuse is and how to avoid it, and child molestors being put behind bars.
J-man | 6:50 p.m. May 25, 2008
How can anyone in the FLDS justify a 50 y/o man marrying a 14 y/o girl in an
arranged marriage?????
Mr. "Jones" | 6:52 p.m. May 25, 2008
happenes all the time. To me in N. Dakota 16yrs go.Wife had fetal alcohol
syndrome. state took our kids coz of it. Me the father took the last child at
divorce and moved to the Philippines to avoid their next target-the newborn
child.terrible to have to leave ones own country to protect ur own child. But I
did and would never return. Remarried and child doing great here. America the
land of the free? I think not. I lost all faith in the US govt 16 years ago.CPS
had and continues to have uncontrolable athority. Hope this case serves as a
wakeup call and changes made...
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So, by not signing the document, they can continue to abuse the children.