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Texas fires back with photos in FLDS case
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New evidence? | 3:50 p.m. May 25, 2008
Realitycheck, we have already seen the CPS's pleadings to the Supreme Court
and they contain nothing that we were not already aware of for weeks and weeks.
Even this photo is arguably irrelevant and should not have been admitted into
evidence, since I cannot see how it makes anything at issue in the hearing more
or less probable. Even if it were just the slightest bit relevant its
prejudicial effect would hugely outweigh its probative value. If the baby is
taken away I think the couple would have a strong appeal on that ground alone.
re - new evidence | 5:12 p.m. May 25, 2008
you've seen the preliminary submission to the supreme court. you have by
no means seen all the evidence being submitted in addition to that, coming from
the AG. Only CPS has made a submittal - the AG will submit further evidence on
Tuesday. (don't forget, there were 2 search warrants - one for CPS and one
for the AG. Only CPS has submitted evidence so far....)
this has already played out behind closed doors at the capital. decisions have already been made. you really think the state of Texas is just going to roll over and play dead? lol - wake up.
you FLDS moms should look back to your early teens and remember how you felt when you were forced to be with someone you didn't even know. Felt dirty then and it'll feel dirty for your daughter. Get out while the door is open. Start fresh somewhere else with your children. Take advantage of the opportunity that Texas has given you.
good luck, ladies. you have my support.
this has already played out behind closed doors at the capital. decisions have already been made. you really think the state of Texas is just going to roll over and play dead? lol - wake up.
you FLDS moms should look back to your early teens and remember how you felt when you were forced to be with someone you didn't even know. Felt dirty then and it'll feel dirty for your daughter. Get out while the door is open. Start fresh somewhere else with your children. Take advantage of the opportunity that Texas has given you.
good luck, ladies. you have my support.
Onlooker | 6:38 p.m. May 25, 2008
I would just like to see Flora and Caroline Jessop subpoened to stand under oath
to see how they answered those questions, grilled by the lawyers.I would be
asking Flora how much input she had to providing info to that disturbed gal who
made that damaging phone call of distress. All the negative questioning thus far
by the media they both reply without even a thought "Absolutly!! oh yes
absolutly!!" Just watch Nancy Grace on CNN she just makes a complete fool
of herself sucking in all that bull from those two. I'm not FLDS but I can
easily observe when someone is outright exagerating just to keep a story going.
What the hay maybe they can sell a few more of their novels.
Comments continue below
Janadele LDS Australia | 7:00 p.m. May 25, 2008
Presenting photographic evidence in a court of law is a serious matter. It would
be difficult to imagine that anyone,especially a Government authority, would
photoshop evidence to be presented at court. The photos will be on the court
file. In light of the serious nature of the allegations, FLDS legal
representatives could and would demand proof of originality, and of the age of
the female, if convinced or aware of any irregularity with the evidence
presented.
It is ridiculous to say that such a kiss is normal among families or politicians.
Previous to seeing this photo I was sympathising with the group, but now I am having serious doubts. Who cares how the photos were obtained... they are daming evidence, and if genuine, should be able to be used. Unfortunately it is often the case that genuine important evidence is withheld because of technicalities... just another example of the sometimes stupidity and injustices of our processes of law.
It is ridiculous to say that such a kiss is normal among families or politicians.
Previous to seeing this photo I was sympathising with the group, but now I am having serious doubts. Who cares how the photos were obtained... they are daming evidence, and if genuine, should be able to be used. Unfortunately it is often the case that genuine important evidence is withheld because of technicalities... just another example of the sometimes stupidity and injustices of our processes of law.
The Texan | 7:28 p.m. May 25, 2008
Sounds like no matter what evidence is produced there are those who will remain
blind.
Jeffs never at YFZ, he was on the run for how long and where was he? He's not telling and you better stop making blanket statements without proof.
Some dumb Texas judge made a dumb ruling that needs to be overturned on appeal. One judge does not make or break a case even if those of you here think it does. It just makes a single different opinion that is contrary to all of those that have gone before. It's called buying justice, we have several prime examples of that in the US of A don't we? By a judge, legislate from the bench. It's called illegal and needs to stop.
Jeffs never at YFZ, he was on the run for how long and where was he? He's not telling and you better stop making blanket statements without proof.
Some dumb Texas judge made a dumb ruling that needs to be overturned on appeal. One judge does not make or break a case even if those of you here think it does. It just makes a single different opinion that is contrary to all of those that have gone before. It's called buying justice, we have several prime examples of that in the US of A don't we? By a judge, legislate from the bench. It's called illegal and needs to stop.
Anonymous | 8:34 p.m. May 25, 2008
"Dan Jessop is right, how do we know the picture was not photoshopped?
Anyway, since the CPS thought a 27-year-old was no older than 17, than maybe this lady is 22.
Anyway, how can they introduce evidence without saying how they got it? Was CPS following Jeffs and not telling the FBI where he was? This is all very suspicious."
I agree with the "photoshopped" idea. I have altered many, many photos in photo shop, making myself and others look younger. I have also combined as many as 4 pictures into 1 picture and made it look incredibly real, and I still don't consider myself a photoshop expert compared to some I have seen people do with it.
Oh, and my father-in-law used to kiss me, his daughters and all his daughter in laws on the lips all the time when he would greet us. It's a tradition thing in some families, doesn't scream rape to me!
Anyway, since the CPS thought a 27-year-old was no older than 17, than maybe this lady is 22.
Anyway, how can they introduce evidence without saying how they got it? Was CPS following Jeffs and not telling the FBI where he was? This is all very suspicious."
I agree with the "photoshopped" idea. I have altered many, many photos in photo shop, making myself and others look younger. I have also combined as many as 4 pictures into 1 picture and made it look incredibly real, and I still don't consider myself a photoshop expert compared to some I have seen people do with it.
Oh, and my father-in-law used to kiss me, his daughters and all his daughter in laws on the lips all the time when he would greet us. It's a tradition thing in some families, doesn't scream rape to me!
Anonymous | 8:36 p.m. May 25, 2008
I agree, Warren Jeffs is much more gray now then in these pictures. CPS could
have put whatever date they wanted on them. Just not sure I can believe they
are real being introduced so casually and so late in the game with CPS to trust
them. They seem desperate to shock people.
HEARSAY | 9:40 p.m. May 25, 2008
HEARSAY
James Dean | 9:40 p.m. May 25, 2008
this is a bad situation. Polygamy is against the US law. period. marrying girls
under age 16 is against the law. period. the men are the ones who should be
taken away, sterilized and then sent to prison.
Parent | 10:56 p.m. May 25, 2008
Why does CPS always get the blame for poor choices made by parents? If parents
used common sense to protect their kids, CPS would not come knocking on their
doors. Protect your kids from physical and sexual abuse, oh yea and don't
neglect them and CPS will not stop by your home. Most parents are selfish and
only think about their own needs. I have 4 children and CPS has never stopped
by...maybe because I am protecting my kids and the state does not have to!
Doug in Washington | 11:02 p.m. May 25, 2008
The photo is irrelevant to the decision of the appellate court. If the photo
was part of the evidence already entered, then the appellate court considered it
already. If the photo is not part of the appeal package, neither will the Texas
Supreme Court consider it.
Perverts should be tried and punished according to the law, not to satisfy whipped-up hysteria of a mob. CPS should likewise operate according to the law, which the appellate says they failed to do.
We should be ruled by law, not by lynch mobs.
Perverts should be tried and punished according to the law, not to satisfy whipped-up hysteria of a mob. CPS should likewise operate according to the law, which the appellate says they failed to do.
We should be ruled by law, not by lynch mobs.
Underthebannerofheaven | 1:21 a.m. May 26, 2008
I love how if one makes a polygamy comment to a Mormon, (LDS whatever) the
immediate retort is that the practice was banned 150 yrs ago blah, etc.
If this msg board proves anything it's that sympathy abounds for this disgusting practice even among those quick to dismiss it as arcane. And please don't use the Constitution as a guise for your leanings as I don't see anyone too concerned with any items petitioned for writ to the SCOTUS. Where's Krakauer when we need him?
If this msg board proves anything it's that sympathy abounds for this disgusting practice even among those quick to dismiss it as arcane. And please don't use the Constitution as a guise for your leanings as I don't see anyone too concerned with any items petitioned for writ to the SCOTUS. Where's Krakauer when we need him?
WRIT | 7:08 a.m. May 26, 2008
==
ENFORCE THE PEREMPTORY WRIT OF MANDAMUS.
=
ENFORCE THE PEREMPTORY WRIT OF MANDAMUS.
=
Anonymous | 8:36 a.m. May 26, 2008
Several comments state that all children should not be held in protective
custody because they are not in immediate danger. We need to consider the
careful day by day brainwashing teaching that goes on to make it possible for
very young girls and young boys to consider this normal behavior. Their
thinking processes are very ingrained through their lifestyle. The only hope
they have to escape the lifestyle of the compound is to be raised in homes where
maturity and family standards are valued, either by adoption or by changing the
homes of their parents. Awards need to go to the State of Texas for taking on
this difficult challenge that can free generations of children. There is
nothing humane about raising your own generations of child porn prostitutes, and
many children have suffered immeasurably under this evil system.
To Anonymous | 8:47 a.m. May 26, 2008
I am agnostic and consider all of christianity to be a brainwashing. Definitely
abuse since from the moment a child is born the parents are teaching their
children that if the children do not obey, they will be burned in hell.
Should CPS round up all christian children in an effort to protect them based on my definition of abuse?
Should CPS round up all christian children in an effort to protect them based on my definition of abuse?
To: Re 152 | 9:23 a.m. May 26, 2008
They might not find pictures like that (that could have been computor fabricated
to raise the public ire) but would they find playboy? or Cosmopolitan? or even
the soap opera sedule has more esplicite material. All I'm trying to get
across is there is two sides to every story, and pictures and lives can be
tampered with for no other reason than public opinion. The CPS has not found
one case of abuse even though their cries are loud and underhanded. Look at the
mothers faces. They still smile even though their whole life has been taken. Is
there no compassion in these United States for the suffering of little children?
I am grateful the appeals court is saying there is and I pray that the people
of the United States will have the same charity as they would like for
themselves. I think that when these people get their children back, this country
is going to see the meaning of "forgiveness" come from these parents
and children. They truely love to bless.
Law and Order | 10:30 a.m. May 26, 2008
To enter a photo in evidence one must provide a foundation, date of photo, who
took the photo, and an identification of the people involved. If that offered
evidence is accepted by the judge without foundation it will be thrown out.
I�ll bet that the lawsuit by the FLDS with be a claim for 2
billion dollars against the state of Texas and residents of Texas will then pay
the bill.
JWW | 11:24 a.m. May 26, 2008
It is amazing how many people commenting here have endorsed religious
persecution and bigotry, hearsay over proof, and the illegal abduction of
children by the government. Doesn't the Constitution mean anything to
you?
JD Bill | 12:38 p.m. May 26, 2008
If ever there was an example of over-reaching government action without basis in
fact, this is it. It's clearly a case of religious persecution based
solely on the beliefs of the FLDS. I'm not FLDS and do not condone their
beliefs, but we are a country that has at it's core a belief in freedom OF
religion. If there are provable individual allegations of abuse, they must be
prosecuted, but the entire basis of the search warrant that resulted in the
seizure of the children has been proven to be a hoax (read that as LIE). The
State of Texas officials should be removed from office and, if possible,
prosecuted criminally and sued for damages. The State of Texas should be
required to pay the attorney's fees for those harmed by this invasion.
JimmyB | 12:46 p.m. May 26, 2008
CPS trampled Texas law and the Constitution. The Texas Supreme Court will
unanimously uphold the Appeals court ruling. This Warren Jeffs photograph is
completely irrelevant to this case.
Ing | 1:09 p.m. May 26, 2008
I won't dispute that the FLDS belief system is weird, or that it has led to
underage marriages and could again. It's a bit creepy and scary.
However, that is NOT a good reason to take 468 children away from their parents at once.
If the children need to be "rescued," there are better ways. What the Texas CPS has done is neither good nor legal.
If you're in the place of the Texas CPS, you have a moral responsibility to weigh your actions against the damage they can do. What would have happened to you psychologically if at age 5, 8, or 10 you had been taken away from your parents by surprise and just shuttled off somewhere else with no warning?
They also have a legal obligation to base their actions on factual evidence, not just their own opinions. There is no evidence that what the FLDS were doing rises to the standard of *immediate harm* that Texas law requires. NONE.
Anyone who considers what it's like to be a child and feel lost or abandoned should realize that the children are suffering more now than they would have if the CPS had taken a more restrained approach.
However, that is NOT a good reason to take 468 children away from their parents at once.
If the children need to be "rescued," there are better ways. What the Texas CPS has done is neither good nor legal.
If you're in the place of the Texas CPS, you have a moral responsibility to weigh your actions against the damage they can do. What would have happened to you psychologically if at age 5, 8, or 10 you had been taken away from your parents by surprise and just shuttled off somewhere else with no warning?
They also have a legal obligation to base their actions on factual evidence, not just their own opinions. There is no evidence that what the FLDS were doing rises to the standard of *immediate harm* that Texas law requires. NONE.
Anyone who considers what it's like to be a child and feel lost or abandoned should realize that the children are suffering more now than they would have if the CPS had taken a more restrained approach.
south1949 | 1:39 p.m. May 26, 2008
Looking at the pictures closley, the girl(s) look different. It doesn't say
who "they" are, just implies they are the same. What I want to know is
what does that have to do with Ms Bradshaw getting her baby back? That is
supposed to be Warren Jeffs, not Dan.
To FLDS teen girls | 2:44 p.m. May 26, 2008
Your prophet Jeffs is not perfect. He admitted that he is a fraud. In fact
he's is a criminal sex offender with more charges to come. You may think
it's normal for young girls to marry old men and have lots of children
because that is all you know. But wouldn't you rather go to college and
hang out with young adults your own age? Get an interesting, challenging job?
Travel the world? Then when you can support a family, have children and share in
all of the decisions of your life and family's life? Wouldn't your
life be more colorful if you were exposed to different people and experiences?
There is one big beautiful world out there for you to explore. It's not too
late to change your life!
Anonymous | 4:17 p.m. May 26, 2008
To the patronizing person lecturing FLDS girls about the big wide wonderful
world, yeah, sure the world is big and wide and wonderful, but it can also be
difficult and scary. The fact that FLDS life does not prepare one for many of
the difficulties is not a problem as long as one is convinced that the FLDS life
is ideal. But I do not think FLDS life is automatically inferior to other life
styles in many respects.
What if the Jeffs picture with the girl is just the FLDS equivalent of a teenybopper throwing her underwear at Elvis? That is, both are creepy but one cannot necessarily assume anything else!
I find the Bradshaw / Jessop testimony both difficult and creepy. My heart wants to go out to both of these young parents and I am VERY glad Dan Jessop values his wife and thinks he got a good deal. I even know a few cases of non-FLDS arranged marriages!
But I know too many predators, sociopaths, and abusers who can be quite sweet and charming. I am NOT soothed by someone saying she cannot name the people she lives with but knows they are "sweet."
What if the Jeffs picture with the girl is just the FLDS equivalent of a teenybopper throwing her underwear at Elvis? That is, both are creepy but one cannot necessarily assume anything else!
I find the Bradshaw / Jessop testimony both difficult and creepy. My heart wants to go out to both of these young parents and I am VERY glad Dan Jessop values his wife and thinks he got a good deal. I even know a few cases of non-FLDS arranged marriages!
But I know too many predators, sociopaths, and abusers who can be quite sweet and charming. I am NOT soothed by someone saying she cannot name the people she lives with but knows they are "sweet."
Anonymous | 5:17 p.m. May 26, 2008
I believe that all religions that are not Christian should be eradicated. This
country was born of Christians and should stay that way.
realitycheck | 5:21 p.m. May 26, 2008
the thing that most amazes me is that some of you are saying "just give the
kids back" as if everything would then be ok.
Even the children's attorneys are questioning the parents because they think there's a problem.
Even the children's attorneys are questioning the parents because they think there's a problem.
huh? | 5:29 p.m. May 26, 2008
you've seen politicians kissing babies on the lips like that?....oh
brother....now i've heard everything!!
there is no hope for these people
there is no hope for these people
FLDS | 7:04 p.m. May 26, 2008
FLDS should sell tickets to the fantasy land they live in....
Joxcer | 8:13 p.m. May 26, 2008
I am a nurse I work in the Metro DC area - I see many couples who have arranged
marriages- Muslim/Hindu, I also know of many families with more than one
"wife" all are Muslim, all are arranged here in the states. We're
told- "just take care of the patient and mind our own."!
I'm sure if we start to charge the FLDS we would have to charge the other "offenders" too. Can you imagine the problems that would cause? But the guys with mistresses they can have as many as they want? Seems strange to me.
I agree with the other posters about the problems with other churches and teen pregnancy, no one says a word but a father wants to support these babies and he's a bad guy? I don't see it.
I do have a problem with forcing people who are afraid of other religions/people to get on those buses marked with another churches name on the side to take them away from their Mothers...that was cruel, very cruel.
I'm sure if we start to charge the FLDS we would have to charge the other "offenders" too. Can you imagine the problems that would cause? But the guys with mistresses they can have as many as they want? Seems strange to me.
I agree with the other posters about the problems with other churches and teen pregnancy, no one says a word but a father wants to support these babies and he's a bad guy? I don't see it.
I do have a problem with forcing people who are afraid of other religions/people to get on those buses marked with another churches name on the side to take them away from their Mothers...that was cruel, very cruel.
betty | 9:18 p.m. May 26, 2008
when my parents died i was sent to live in six different homes before i was 18.
i was fed, clothed, had a room to sleep in, sent to school and doctors., and the
methodist church, as i was told that my parents went there. left alone a lot,
i developed a love of reading that did me well in school. i got a job at 17,
went to community college at night and have a good life. it was obviously not
an ideal growing up, but it was certainly better than the poor girls growing up
in that polygamist compound.
i thank the state of texas for their help and compassion and watching over me. i never thought i needed mental help because i never developed this poor little me complex that some of the venters about cps have.
i thank the state of texas for their help and compassion and watching over me. i never thought i needed mental help because i never developed this poor little me complex that some of the venters about cps have.
Whats next | 11:25 p.m. May 26, 2008
What is CPS going to do for there next Brainwasher when the same pictures start
coming out with the real face on the body? im sorry that picture sayes nothing,
anyone that can click a mouse, and has Photoshop could make such evidence.
Jill | 11:53 p.m. May 26, 2008
The primary function of the photo is for the media, not the court. Texas has
been working public opinion since the start. I agree with a previous
comment--that is no 12 year olds hand. Why doesn't the mainstream media
get this excited when gays rape a little boy. Instead they cover it up. Texas
is shaking in their boots on this case. We could be looking at a billion in
suits.
Photoshopped? | 7:47 a.m. May 27, 2008
Who cares if it is Photoshopped?
The real question is are the parents "OK" with the man in the photo having a "husband and wife" relationship. If you show me a photo of a older man kissing a 12-13 year old girllike that (even if it is made up) and ask me if I am "OK" with the image.... my answer is NO!
Perhaps they are trying to show that the teachings of this group make a photo like it (or the real people doing it) "OK" and that this couple would allow their own daughter at 12-13 to have a marital relationship with a convicted sex offender.
If that is their goal, I think they may have just scored!
The real question is are the parents "OK" with the man in the photo having a "husband and wife" relationship. If you show me a photo of a older man kissing a 12-13 year old girllike that (even if it is made up) and ask me if I am "OK" with the image.... my answer is NO!
Perhaps they are trying to show that the teachings of this group make a photo like it (or the real people doing it) "OK" and that this couple would allow their own daughter at 12-13 to have a marital relationship with a convicted sex offender.
If that is their goal, I think they may have just scored!
Iconoclast | 8:08 a.m. May 27, 2008
If one looks at both pictures its evident the girl is very young. Its also
apparent men are having sex with very young girls because some of the girls are
very much pregnant. I guess in this country, USA, its okay to have sex with
children?????
Grandpa Phil | 8:51 a.m. May 27, 2008
Steve, WOW, what a dissertation in bigotry. When we read lines like, "It
is time for this evil group to be eliminated", it conjours up memories of
the 1840's in Missouri when the Governor and many leaders swore to
exterminate the Mormons. Religious bigots like yourself will always find a
place to wail and knash teeth. If such energy and zeal could ever be directed
toward good and legal processes, then we would never see such blatant disregard
for familial rights as we have all witnessed in Texas.
Grandpa Phil | 8:57 a.m. May 27, 2008
To: Realitycheck, 5:00 PM, What you meant to say was "American injustice,
texas style".
The purpose of a Supreme Court is to protect the individual rights of the citizens. If the Texas Supreme Court overrules the Appelate Court, then it will truly be a sad day for justice in Texas. A sad day for us all.
The purpose of a Supreme Court is to protect the individual rights of the citizens. If the Texas Supreme Court overrules the Appelate Court, then it will truly be a sad day for justice in Texas. A sad day for us all.
Grandpa Phil | 9:02 a.m. May 27, 2008
Court, I like what you said. An objective opinion in these times is refreshing.
Utah Mother | 9:34 a.m. May 27, 2008
"During grueling questioning on the witness stand Friday, Louisa Bradshaw
appeared evasive, answering "I don't know" to inquiries about
where she has lived, how she came to be at the YFZ Ranch and who lives in the
home with her. Her testimony revealed she lived most recently with her husband
in a home with YFZ Ranch boss Merrill Jessop, Dan's father.
Bradshaw struggled to name anyone else who lived in the home, aside from her own children and one of Merrill Jessop's wives, Barbara."
*rolls eyes*
So the FLDS proclaim to follow the real true teachings of Joseph Smith, eh? What happened to "We believe in being HONEST..."??? What happened to "We believe in ... obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."??? The Articles of Faith were written by Joseph Smith's own hand, and are just as binding to his followers as anything else he said or wrote. C'mon people, you're either following his teachings or you're not. You can't just pick and choose which edicts you WANT to abide by!
Bradshaw struggled to name anyone else who lived in the home, aside from her own children and one of Merrill Jessop's wives, Barbara."
*rolls eyes*
So the FLDS proclaim to follow the real true teachings of Joseph Smith, eh? What happened to "We believe in being HONEST..."??? What happened to "We believe in ... obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."??? The Articles of Faith were written by Joseph Smith's own hand, and are just as binding to his followers as anything else he said or wrote. C'mon people, you're either following his teachings or you're not. You can't just pick and choose which edicts you WANT to abide by!
GB | 10:05 a.m. May 27, 2008
Although Texas CPS's motive in releasing this photo was presumably to
reassure the public of the appropriateness of CPS's actions, the photo
actually just illustrates the fundamental problem with CPS's mindset. When
faced with public outcry regarding their taking 400+ children, their reaction
was not to provide evidence showing how each parent was unfit to be a parent or
how each child was in danger but, rather, to release a photo showing Warren
Jeffs (who is currently in prison) kissing a young girl. CPS probably does have
some facts and evidence to support taking some of the children, but their case
with the remainder of the children seems to be based on nothing more than
stereotype, projecting the actions of a few onto the whole group. CPS's
decision to release the photo is very revealing of their way of thinking. They
don't seem to have an evidence-based mindset; it's more of a
generalization-based mindset. We'll see how far that gets them (so far it
hasn't worked too well for them).
Also, regarding the comments reminding us that polygamy is illegal, no one is disputing that. The debate relates to what the penalty for violating anti-polygamy laws should be.
Also, regarding the comments reminding us that polygamy is illegal, no one is disputing that. The debate relates to what the penalty for violating anti-polygamy laws should be.
Sarah | 11:29 a.m. May 27, 2008
Why would the Deseret News publish photos of Warren Jeffs giving a passionate
kiss to a pre-teen? Absolutely disgusting!! You should be ashamed of
yourselves.
Misplaced Disgust | 11:55 a.m. May 27, 2008
To: Sarah | 11:29 a.m
"Why would the Deseret News publish photos of Warren Jeffs giving a passionate kiss to a pre-teen? Absolutely disgusting!!"
The people you should be really disgusted with are the FLDS leaders and men who promote this type of behavior. This is just a mild example of the real picture of what goes on between adult men and young FLDS girls behind closed doors.
"Why would the Deseret News publish photos of Warren Jeffs giving a passionate kiss to a pre-teen? Absolutely disgusting!!"
The people you should be really disgusted with are the FLDS leaders and men who promote this type of behavior. This is just a mild example of the real picture of what goes on between adult men and young FLDS girls behind closed doors.
re: Sarah | 12:03 p.m. May 27, 2008
I am so glad that they did. After all, I would have gone on wondering why CPS
took the kids away from the parents. This photo has opened my eyes to the
reality of what is going on. Thanks Deseret News.
Grandpa Phil | 12:08 p.m. May 27, 2008
The minute the Appelate Court announced its decision, those FLDS kids were in
more trouble than ever before. Neither CPS nor Judge Walther are going to take
that kind of criticism sitting still. You can believe that an army of CPS
workers were dispatched to every foster home and group home in Texas to extract
incriminating evidence against the FLDS in order to justify the CPS abuse of the
FLDS familial rights. As always, the children will take the brunt of CPS's
anger and they will be hurt the worst. This is no longer about child abuse
(haven't seen a lot of evidence in that regard anyway), it is about CPS
saving face. It would not surprise me a bit to see new accusations of abuse
being flung to the public in the next few days, all spawned from recent
"interviews" with the FLDS children with no one around to insure the
children were protected and not threatened.
GB | 12:25 p.m. May 27, 2008
"This photo has opened my eyes to the reality of what is going on."
The reality of what is going on with whom? Warren Jeffs is the only male in the photo, and he is already in prison. Maybe other men did the same thing, so perhaps their kids should be taken from them. But all 400+ kids from ALL of the parents?!
The reality of what is going on with whom? Warren Jeffs is the only male in the photo, and he is already in prison. Maybe other men did the same thing, so perhaps their kids should be taken from them. But all 400+ kids from ALL of the parents?!
To GB | 12:43 p.m. May 27, 2008
What you fail to understand is the absolute control that Warren Jeffs has over
his followers. He commands, they obey or are doomed to hell and lose their
homes and families. What this photograph demonstrates is the edicts that Warren
Jeffs is making for his followers to obey--i.e., marrying young girls is okay as
long as the "prophet" commanded it. This just isn't the same as
a pastor or leader of a regular church--he is their law and dictator over and
above the law of the land and their own consciences. It is the definition of
brainwashing. And before some FLDS mother pipes in and says she's not
brainwashed--brainwashed people never THINK they're brainwashed...DUH.
Grandpa Phil | 12:45 p.m. May 27, 2008
to: "re: Sarah" If that photo changed your mind about anything
related to whether CPS should return those children to their parents, then you
are of the same mindset as CPS. The photo shows someone (I wouldn't know
Warren Jeffs from Captain Kangaroo) kissing a young girl. She looks very young
but you can't see her face and CPS already knows they can't judge a
girl's age by her face anyway. I, too, have a problem with what the
picture portrays but I cannot pass judgment without more FACTS (something CPS
provided NONE of about the picture). If ANYTHING, the picture tells us that the
man in the picture is kissing a young girl inappropriately. It says NOTHING
about whether any of the other FLDS families abused their children or whether or
not CPS should return the children to their parents. CPS released the picture
for its sensationalism value hoping to garner the support of impressionable but
misinformed people. If any eyes were opened by this picture, they were the eyes
of people who suspected that CPS had nothing to back up what they did and are in
damage control mode now.
Grandpa Phil | 12:47 p.m. May 27, 2008
THanks GB, well said.
Trained from Birth | 1:15 p.m. May 27, 2008
Apparently, the FLDS are trained from birth to dodge questions and hedge around
the truth to suit their purposes, or rather, the purposes of the
"prophet." Their unwillingness to be honest and cooperative, even in
the face of losing their children, makes me sick. They are more afraid of the
wrath of the leaders of this "faith" than they are of losing their own
children. They want protection from the law but refuse to honor it themselves.
only in Utah | 4:10 p.m. May 27, 2008
have they defended this kind of crap..never caring about the children of God?
take awAY THEIR FREE WILL. SWEEP THE SHEEP!
Disturbing | 4:13 p.m. May 27, 2008
They look fake AND gross to me.
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Photos of FLDS Church leader Warren Jeffs and a young female were entered into evidence in a custody battle over a 1-week-old baby. Lawyers would not say where they obtained the photos, which are dated July 2006.
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