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Texas appeals to state Supreme Court in FLDS case
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wyogirl | 5:27 p.m. May 23, 2008
realitycheck makes a great point - our judicial/CPS system are not set up to
prosecute a group like the FLDS. That is why they have been able to continue
for over a hundred years - not because what they do isn't wrong.
Living "differently" is fine - but these leaders have total control over the women and children. They use and abuse them for their own purposes. Societies have to draw the line somewhere or any group of people could do ANYTHING and claim legal rights to do it.
I hope that some FLDS women took this chance to escape. Perhaps some have learned that having an education is a good thing - they won this appeal because of a WOMAN lawyer. Perhaps they have seen their so called leaders for the cowardly scum-bags that they are. They have received more support from the evil outsiders than they have from their "husbands."
Unfortunately most of these women have been stripped of any self-respect they were born with. They would abandon their boys, allow their girls to be raped, switch name bands, and blatantly LIE on t.v.
I'm sure we'll see them back working in the fields before long. Sad.
Living "differently" is fine - but these leaders have total control over the women and children. They use and abuse them for their own purposes. Societies have to draw the line somewhere or any group of people could do ANYTHING and claim legal rights to do it.
I hope that some FLDS women took this chance to escape. Perhaps some have learned that having an education is a good thing - they won this appeal because of a WOMAN lawyer. Perhaps they have seen their so called leaders for the cowardly scum-bags that they are. They have received more support from the evil outsiders than they have from their "husbands."
Unfortunately most of these women have been stripped of any self-respect they were born with. They would abandon their boys, allow their girls to be raped, switch name bands, and blatantly LIE on t.v.
I'm sure we'll see them back working in the fields before long. Sad.
hoping | 5:33 p.m. May 23, 2008
Wrong......the 12 children may have "state supervised visit",
quite a bit different than loading em' up and hauling em' back to the
"child sex slave ranch"- Boy, how you defenders grab the pom poms and
start cheering before you know the whole story. Still,- what a setback, for
polygamy, in the LDS Church.
Comments continue below
Ronald A. Young | 5:57 p.m. May 23, 2008
This issue needs to take as long as it needs to take. I would hope long enough
to allow some of the Brained Washed Women to become of aware of the Reality that
they made their Daughters Victims of Rape and Child Sexual Abuse. Texas Police
and CPS did a fine job, they had to bring all the kids out because the Cult acts
as one big family and they moved the kids around gave false names and other wise
obstructed justice and an investigation. Yes in normal cases you can't
remove the child next door or accross the street because your neighbor is having
Incest. However this is different vastly different and you have to apply the law
to fit the crime. Public and child Safety come first. There are still a lot of
things the State can do before they have to return the kids back. They can find
out who is married to whom and do the math and act and charge accordingly. Most
of perhaps all of the underaged so called marriages where Rapes do to the age of
the female. No Young Males where married of to older women. This is about Sex
with Childern.
Interloper | 6:01 p.m. May 23, 2008
Well, this lawyer disagrees with the other people who claim to be lawyers on
this thread. The appeals court did not use the proper standard of review to
accuse a trial court judge of abuse of discretion. Judge Walther did have some
evidence of abuse to rely on and the state is developing more. It is premature
to expect the evidence gathering to be complete.
Yesterday, I said that Gloating Day for the FLDS would turn into Tantrum Day when CPS filed an appeal. I did not expect it to happen so soon.
Yesterday, I said that Gloating Day for the FLDS would turn into Tantrum Day when CPS filed an appeal. I did not expect it to happen so soon.
Anonymous | 6:41 p.m. May 23, 2008
Interloper,
You sound as if you have a dog in this fight. Are you some kind of over the edge evangelical that believes every horror story and allegation of evil sexual practice exists as doctrines of Mormons or FLDS? My guess would be yes.
The real evil is in having your mind-set coupled with an out of control gov agency. Right now I would guess the people in charge of those agencies are from 'your' religious persuasion.
The filth that must go through your minds to conjer up such visions & charges and the insanity that propels you to round up 500 women & children like cattle and take them away!
The FLDS women love their children, and their children need to be with them. You apparently are more concerned with 'winning' than in what is best for the children. I'll even bet you aren't upset at all that gay men may adopt and parent small children, and teach them according to a 'pervasive belief' that man on man is normal. I think you are full of religious bigotry. I hope you get over it.
You sound as if you have a dog in this fight. Are you some kind of over the edge evangelical that believes every horror story and allegation of evil sexual practice exists as doctrines of Mormons or FLDS? My guess would be yes.
The real evil is in having your mind-set coupled with an out of control gov agency. Right now I would guess the people in charge of those agencies are from 'your' religious persuasion.
The filth that must go through your minds to conjer up such visions & charges and the insanity that propels you to round up 500 women & children like cattle and take them away!
The FLDS women love their children, and their children need to be with them. You apparently are more concerned with 'winning' than in what is best for the children. I'll even bet you aren't upset at all that gay men may adopt and parent small children, and teach them according to a 'pervasive belief' that man on man is normal. I think you are full of religious bigotry. I hope you get over it.
to Interloper | 7:03 p.m. May 23, 2008
If you are an attorney, you should know that an appeal is not in the best
interest of CPS, TX, or the U.S. as polygamy might be tested. (see Lawrence V.
Texas.) You might also want to review your Evidence text. The judge (Walther)
did not have evidence as determined by the judges (plural) at the court of
Appeals. While CPS might be working on evidence, including DNA, you should know
all might be ruled inadmissible. Again, see your Evidence Book.
John Lambert | 7:12 p.m. May 23, 2008
With California attempting to end home schooling people the claims that that
is partly why the FLDS are being persecuted are not preposterous.
Secondly, I am not sure which states force women to remove Burkhas for drivers license photos. It is stupid since the women then appear different in the photo than they actually look.
However beyond that I think it is a violation of the 1st admendment. In 1990 the US Supreme COurt decided the Free Exercise clause of the 1st admendment did not really hold water. It was the worst decision since Dred Scott. I say let people exercise their freedom as long as the government does not have a compelling interest, and there is not compelling interest in forcing women to show off their hair.
Secondly, I am not sure which states force women to remove Burkhas for drivers license photos. It is stupid since the women then appear different in the photo than they actually look.
However beyond that I think it is a violation of the 1st admendment. In 1990 the US Supreme COurt decided the Free Exercise clause of the 1st admendment did not really hold water. It was the worst decision since Dred Scott. I say let people exercise their freedom as long as the government does not have a compelling interest, and there is not compelling interest in forcing women to show off their hair.
Slither away | 7:21 p.m. May 23, 2008
It's going to be extremely hard for authorities to ever get anything called
TRUTH or even near the Truth form the lips of FLDS. The FLDS are the biggest
pack of deceptive liars to ever slither across the whole southwestern part of
the United States of America. I have never seen anything like it.
TO realitycheck | 7:26 p.m. May 23, 2008
CPS alleges abuse and the Court of Appeals ruled there was NO evidence. Texas
is stupid enough to appeal that ruling which will have huge implications
regarding religious right to upbringing and possibly even begin a challenge to
polygamy.
I'd type more slowing, but even then, I don't think you would follow.
I'd type more slowing, but even then, I don't think you would follow.
slithering | 7:32 p.m. May 23, 2008
The FLDS told the truth even providing identification. CPS ignored that truth
again and again. You might want to look up "Writ of Mandamus" and
what that means.
John Lambert | 7:32 p.m. May 23, 2008
The Texas CPS is being disengenous in how it presents the case. The only
female who has presented an argument that she felt she had been forced to have
sex was Rozita "Sarah". And she was lieing completely.
Yes, there have been arguments of such in other cases, but not in Texas. CPS has not demonstrated that in any case the pregnant teenagers they have in custody felt they were forced to have sex. In facth they have not even demonstrated who the father of any of the children in question is.
We do not know who the fathers of the children born when their mothers were 16 are. Without a knoledge of this fact there is no way to argue that statutory rape or child abuse occured.
I could have a pregnant daughter is 12 and became pregnant because she got raped at school. This would in no way demonstrate that I was a bad parent.
The main point of the Apppeals Court ruling was that CPS failed to demonstate sufficiently that they had cause. The mere presence of pregnancy is not evidence alone.
Yes, there have been arguments of such in other cases, but not in Texas. CPS has not demonstrated that in any case the pregnant teenagers they have in custody felt they were forced to have sex. In facth they have not even demonstrated who the father of any of the children in question is.
We do not know who the fathers of the children born when their mothers were 16 are. Without a knoledge of this fact there is no way to argue that statutory rape or child abuse occured.
I could have a pregnant daughter is 12 and became pregnant because she got raped at school. This would in no way demonstrate that I was a bad parent.
The main point of the Apppeals Court ruling was that CPS failed to demonstate sufficiently that they had cause. The mere presence of pregnancy is not evidence alone.
Red | 8:10 p.m. May 23, 2008
Hey Red: "You might want to do a search on Bigamy. It's a Class A
Misdemeaner in Texas."
Old news, I think. In their zeal to make obeying the law more difficult for FLDS, TX bumped bigamy up to felony status.
Even so, two can play this game. If certain words make an otherwise accepted act illegal, the FLDS can just stop using those words.
See Larry King the other day (paraphrased, despite my quote marks):
LK: "Are you his husband?"
FLDS Frau: "No, we're not married. I'm simply the mothr of his children."
Badda boom, badda bing: no bigamy!
There's also the Constitutional prohibition on laws specifically designed to prohibit the free exercise of a religion, but I don't think that anyone's rational enough to strike down TX/UT/AZ laws despite their obvious target.
Old news, I think. In their zeal to make obeying the law more difficult for FLDS, TX bumped bigamy up to felony status.
Even so, two can play this game. If certain words make an otherwise accepted act illegal, the FLDS can just stop using those words.
See Larry King the other day (paraphrased, despite my quote marks):
LK: "Are you his husband?"
FLDS Frau: "No, we're not married. I'm simply the mothr of his children."
Badda boom, badda bing: no bigamy!
There's also the Constitutional prohibition on laws specifically designed to prohibit the free exercise of a religion, but I don't think that anyone's rational enough to strike down TX/UT/AZ laws despite their obvious target.
He said, she said | 8:28 p.m. May 23, 2008
(The department has complained that children switched names and both children
and mothers have refused to answer questions about identities of family
relationships, making it difficult to determine which child belongs to which
parent.)..... I guess CPS never heard of clipping a toe nail and checking for
DNA?...
The Texas CPS is grasping for straws.
The Texas CPS is grasping for straws.
CPS and Judge a disgrace! | 8:28 p.m. May 23, 2008
Although I do not condone the FLDS, they have a right to practice their
religion.
I would agree that if CPS had a search warrant, and the FLDS had been given appropriate time to obtain legal advice and/or attorney's, we wouldn't be talking about any of this right now.
I would not have let anyone come in like the CPS and their back up so called SWAT team.
I am continually appalled at the way all this was handled. No proof, nothing factually proven...all hearsay because of a ridiculous phone call that the ignorant CPS and Texas officials believed.
The treatment these FLDS received is really unforgivable. The children will have a life time of nightmares and lack of trust in our so called judicial system because some crazy judge wanted to use her so called power unlawfully.
The whole thing just makes me sick!
I would agree that if CPS had a search warrant, and the FLDS had been given appropriate time to obtain legal advice and/or attorney's, we wouldn't be talking about any of this right now.
I would not have let anyone come in like the CPS and their back up so called SWAT team.
I am continually appalled at the way all this was handled. No proof, nothing factually proven...all hearsay because of a ridiculous phone call that the ignorant CPS and Texas officials believed.
The treatment these FLDS received is really unforgivable. The children will have a life time of nightmares and lack of trust in our so called judicial system because some crazy judge wanted to use her so called power unlawfully.
The whole thing just makes me sick!
realitycheck | 9:08 p.m. May 23, 2008
to - TO realitycheck 7:26pm
I'm thinking you didn't read my post. Because I said that the majority of the abuse you apply in your religion is not illegal. (the rest has yet to be proven.)
But your religion is inherently abusive to children, especially girls. Perhaps not illegal, but the servitude of young girls in the name of religion is morally wrong.
no need to type slowly - I read just fine.
I'm thinking you didn't read my post. Because I said that the majority of the abuse you apply in your religion is not illegal. (the rest has yet to be proven.)
But your religion is inherently abusive to children, especially girls. Perhaps not illegal, but the servitude of young girls in the name of religion is morally wrong.
no need to type slowly - I read just fine.
Gramma | 9:30 p.m. May 23, 2008
Individuals aren't immune for the results of their official conduct simply
because they were enforcing policies or orders. Where a statute authorizes
official conduct which is patently violative of fundamental constitutional
principles, an officer who enforces that statute is not entitled to qualified
immunity.
Hafer v. Melo (S. Ct. 1991)
Social workers (and other government employees) may be sued for deprivation of civil rights under 42 USC 1983 if they are named in their 'official and individual capacity. -- Just the highlights
Walsh v. Erie County Department of Job and Family Services
Child protection social workers claimed they were immune from liability in a civil violation (4th Amendment) suit, claiming qualified immunity because "they had not had training in Fourth Amendment law." They felt they couldn't be sued for their mistake, because they thought they were not binded by the Fourth Amendment. The court disagreed ruling "That subjective basis for their ignorance about and actions in violation of the Fourth Amendment does not relieve them of the consequences of that ignorance and those actions." and denied their immunity. 3:01-cv-7588.
Aponte Matos v. Toledo Davilla (1st Cir. 1998)
Hafer v. Melo (S. Ct. 1991)
Social workers (and other government employees) may be sued for deprivation of civil rights under 42 USC 1983 if they are named in their 'official and individual capacity. -- Just the highlights
Walsh v. Erie County Department of Job and Family Services
Child protection social workers claimed they were immune from liability in a civil violation (4th Amendment) suit, claiming qualified immunity because "they had not had training in Fourth Amendment law." They felt they couldn't be sued for their mistake, because they thought they were not binded by the Fourth Amendment. The court disagreed ruling "That subjective basis for their ignorance about and actions in violation of the Fourth Amendment does not relieve them of the consequences of that ignorance and those actions." and denied their immunity. 3:01-cv-7588.
Aponte Matos v. Toledo Davilla (1st Cir. 1998)
Gramm | 9:30 p.m. May 23, 2008
The above is from the FLDS website. Cower and hide, you bullies CPS!!!!!
Interloper | 9:54 p.m. May 23, 2008
The three judges who made the decision are among the most the conservative in
the Texas judiciary. They were led to this unfortunate outcome by their
politics, not the law. Once the FLDS case is out of their hands, it will get
more thoughtful consideration.
There is absolutely no chance polygamy is going to be deemed legal in Texas or any other state. Any possibility of that occurring ended with the rise of females to equal citizenship with men. Polygamy requires male dominance, which is increasingly unacceptable in the modern world.
It is probable most of the children will be returned to their mothers eventually with safeguards in place. That has been the state's intention all along.
There is absolutely no chance polygamy is going to be deemed legal in Texas or any other state. Any possibility of that occurring ended with the rise of females to equal citizenship with men. Polygamy requires male dominance, which is increasingly unacceptable in the modern world.
It is probable most of the children will be returned to their mothers eventually with safeguards in place. That has been the state's intention all along.
Jen Shostak | 9:56 p.m. May 23, 2008
Late today, the Deseret News story on the status of things in San Angelo
said:
"Meanwhile, CPS lawyers were back in court in San Angelo this afternoon for a hearing involving Louisa Jessop, who gave birth two weeks ago to a son while in state protective custody. Judge Barbara Walther must determine what will happen to the child. That decision has been made more complicated by Thursday's appeals court decision."
Has anyone heard what happened to this mother and her baby?
"Meanwhile, CPS lawyers were back in court in San Angelo this afternoon for a hearing involving Louisa Jessop, who gave birth two weeks ago to a son while in state protective custody. Judge Barbara Walther must determine what will happen to the child. That decision has been made more complicated by Thursday's appeals court decision."
Has anyone heard what happened to this mother and her baby?
Jen Shostak | 10:02 p.m. May 23, 2008
To: DC
Thanks for carrying the ball critiquing the Texas Attorney General's quality of lawyering today. I'm not from your region, but I too think their papers are very badly written, especially because there are no citations to the record at the April hearing. There are no declarations to support the factual claims.
I always found Texas lawyers from big firms in Dallas and Houston and Austin to be just as thorough and careful as those of us in other states. So what's up? Is the Texas Attorney General taking a dive politically, or are the votes to overturn the 3rd District already lined up?
Thanks for carrying the ball critiquing the Texas Attorney General's quality of lawyering today. I'm not from your region, but I too think their papers are very badly written, especially because there are no citations to the record at the April hearing. There are no declarations to support the factual claims.
I always found Texas lawyers from big firms in Dallas and Houston and Austin to be just as thorough and careful as those of us in other states. So what's up? Is the Texas Attorney General taking a dive politically, or are the votes to overturn the 3rd District already lined up?
Pligs Pick-N-Choose | 10:07 p.m. May 23, 2008
The FLDS seem to think that they can pick and choose the laws that fit their
liking. They seem to have forgotten, or just ignore the 12th article of faith...
Kudos to the Texas authorities for protecting children. Nothing is more important than STOPPING these perverts from raping little girls, brain-washing women, and abandoning young boys.
You can bet that most, if not all of the comments supporting this sick lifestyle is coming from pligs hunkered down at their computers in Shortcreek.
Kudos to the Texas authorities for protecting children. Nothing is more important than STOPPING these perverts from raping little girls, brain-washing women, and abandoning young boys.
You can bet that most, if not all of the comments supporting this sick lifestyle is coming from pligs hunkered down at their computers in Shortcreek.
J-man | 10:07 p.m. May 23, 2008
Can just one FLDS person be honest and tell us where Merril Jessop is hiding?
J-man | 10:29 p.m. May 23, 2008
To Pick-N-Choose:
Why wouldn't the FLDS pick and choose which laws they want to obey? I mean good grief, they think that the Word of Wisdom is optional...
What they call an arranged "spiritual" marriage of a 50 y/o man to a 14 y/o girl as an act of god, the rest of the world calls deviant sexual behavior and rape of a minor.
Why wouldn't the FLDS pick and choose which laws they want to obey? I mean good grief, they think that the Word of Wisdom is optional...
What they call an arranged "spiritual" marriage of a 50 y/o man to a 14 y/o girl as an act of god, the rest of the world calls deviant sexual behavior and rape of a minor.
Jen Shostak | 10:33 p.m. May 23, 2008
Last time I heard, Moslems in many countries are allowed to have 4 wives under
their religion. I know they are not the most popular immigrants these days, but
are there Moslem immigrants in the US today who have up to 4 wives? What does
the State Department do with a Moslem who applies to immigrate and bring his
immediate family here, including all 4 wives? I bet if his last name is Al Saud
all the wives get in!
Gal50 | 10:41 p.m. May 23, 2008
The appellate court order to return the children was not well-written. It should
have ordered the return of the children within ten days of the ruling if the
parents are identifiable or after that, within ten days of identifying the
parents, or otherwise held in CPS custody.
I don't think these parents take good care of their children, but they do take reasonable care of their younger children. Their children are at a greater risk of contracting serious childhood diseases due to the lack of immunizations, they may be undereducated, they are at risk of dehydration, heat exhaustion and heat stroke because they are forced to wear winter clothes in sweltering heat, they are at risk of being obedient to harmful people, they are overly indoctrinated and lack life choices, they are taught to fear the outside world and are not well-adapted to it, their toys and pets have supposedly been discarded and their parents are at risk for criminal prosecution.
Parents have the right to expose their children to this lifestyle. What has to be prevented is underage marriage, statutory rape, abandonment and child trafficking.
I don't think these parents take good care of their children, but they do take reasonable care of their younger children. Their children are at a greater risk of contracting serious childhood diseases due to the lack of immunizations, they may be undereducated, they are at risk of dehydration, heat exhaustion and heat stroke because they are forced to wear winter clothes in sweltering heat, they are at risk of being obedient to harmful people, they are overly indoctrinated and lack life choices, they are taught to fear the outside world and are not well-adapted to it, their toys and pets have supposedly been discarded and their parents are at risk for criminal prosecution.
Parents have the right to expose their children to this lifestyle. What has to be prevented is underage marriage, statutory rape, abandonment and child trafficking.
Think it's ok? | 11:06 p.m. May 23, 2008
After my dad took plural wives, our lives took on a form of secrecy. I did not
dare tell anyone where he had gone or what he had done. Polygamy was still
illegal, although there are thousands living it daily. I was afraid he would get
arrested and be sent to jail. I began to be very selective in the things I would
say. I became a very good liar, deceiving all those who asked me anything about
him. Everything was a lie or a story. I never once felt any guilt for my actions
as I thought I was protecting him.
Many Mormon people today are embarrassed by the doctrine of polygamy, many even deny it was taught. But the fact is, it was taught, believed and lived. Mormon doctrine states that polygamy will again be lived throughout eternity. For Mormon women who make it to the highest degree of heaven, they have only to look forward to sharing their husband with many other women for eternity.
Many Mormon people today are embarrassed by the doctrine of polygamy, many even deny it was taught. But the fact is, it was taught, believed and lived. Mormon doctrine states that polygamy will again be lived throughout eternity. For Mormon women who make it to the highest degree of heaven, they have only to look forward to sharing their husband with many other women for eternity.
Think it's ok? cont. | 11:07 p.m. May 23, 2008
Fear, hurt and anger hung over our house. My parents continued to fight, unable
to settle their differences. And so, although I think my dad must have loved us,
he left us, in order to follow the early LDS teachings.
After he moved out, he went to live in Colorado City, Arizona, which is a polygamist community. My dad "married" his second wife and a short time later "married" her sister, having a total of three wives.
My mother was left alone to raise her children. I was the youngest of her seven. I am now the seventh of sixteen children due to my dad's polygamous relationships. There were three of my mom's children still at home when he left. My mother was very depressed after her husband left her.
After he moved out, he went to live in Colorado City, Arizona, which is a polygamist community. My dad "married" his second wife and a short time later "married" her sister, having a total of three wives.
My mother was left alone to raise her children. I was the youngest of her seven. I am now the seventh of sixteen children due to my dad's polygamous relationships. There were three of my mom's children still at home when he left. My mother was very depressed after her husband left her.
wrz | 11:59 p.m. May 23, 2008
"The CPS allegations are abuse. FLDS beliefs and practices are abusive, as
I stated. What don't you understand?"
FLDS (or anyone else) can't be prosecuted for religious beliefs. Says so in the US Constitution, First Amendment.
If you want to prosecute for abuse, you have to have the evidence. And you have to identify and prosecute the abusers... not their victims. CPS got it totally backwards.
FLDS (or anyone else) can't be prosecuted for religious beliefs. Says so in the US Constitution, First Amendment.
If you want to prosecute for abuse, you have to have the evidence. And you have to identify and prosecute the abusers... not their victims. CPS got it totally backwards.
awesomeron | 12:03 a.m. May 24, 2008
You cannot pick and choose the laws you wish to obey and not obey. Because you
do not like them. Just like you cannot refuse to work with other people you do
not like for whatever reason you do not like them, provided they are not doing
you any other harm, other then you not liking them. Sex laws are meant to
protect children of Both Genders, from exploitation and abuse. These laws where
passed because some people exploited and abused children when there where no
laws to prevent it. As shown in the Case Of The FLDS if the Laws are not
enforced then abuse will continue in the name of Religion and culture. Before
2001,age 14 was the age of consent in Hawaii, with No Upper Age Limit on the
other person, usually Male. Young Teenagers where exploited all the time, with
or with out consent. A law was passed changing the age to 16 with a five year
age spread, on the other person. This protects the young from being exploited
somewhat and Parents some Control. Also its a Felony that carries 20 years in
prison. Teens in the same age range are not subject to arrest.
wrz | 12:28 a.m. May 24, 2008
"Polygamy requires male dominance, which is increasingly unacceptable in
the modern world."
Actuality, polygamy is just the opposite. Women control most marriages... and doubly so with more than one women in the marriage.
"It is probable most of the children will be returned to their mothers eventually with safeguards in place. That has been the state's intention all along."
CPS's intention was to remove all children and permanently farm them out... and, hopefully, to erase all vestiges of the FLDS religion from their memories.
Actuality, polygamy is just the opposite. Women control most marriages... and doubly so with more than one women in the marriage.
"It is probable most of the children will be returned to their mothers eventually with safeguards in place. That has been the state's intention all along."
CPS's intention was to remove all children and permanently farm them out... and, hopefully, to erase all vestiges of the FLDS religion from their memories.
TO think it's ok | 7:13 a.m. May 24, 2008
I am sorry that your father left your family for other women, but this is quite
common in the rest of the U.S. as well. How many sports figures have multiple
children from equally as many women?
realitycheck | 9:20 a.m. May 24, 2008
wrz - 12:28am
you state that women control most polygamist marriages.... What?
you know, many here will stretch the true and bend facts for their own purpose, but few have the audacity to actually blatantly state untruths.
you have blatantly stated an untruth. In no way do women control in polygamist marriages. If you actually believe that, pls explain or take off your blinders.
And if CPS can un-indoctrinate those children from the teachings of an INHERENTLY ABUSIVE "religion", then that is a GOOD thing.
you state that women control most polygamist marriages.... What?
you know, many here will stretch the true and bend facts for their own purpose, but few have the audacity to actually blatantly state untruths.
you have blatantly stated an untruth. In no way do women control in polygamist marriages. If you actually believe that, pls explain or take off your blinders.
And if CPS can un-indoctrinate those children from the teachings of an INHERENTLY ABUSIVE "religion", then that is a GOOD thing.
to J-man | 9:38 a.m. May 25, 2008
Willie Jessop excommunicated Merrill Jessop and took over the compound. With
Warren Jeffs and Merrill out of the way, Willie Jessop is the new self appointed
prophet. He will clean up Warren's mess !
SallyLee | 9:42 a.m. May 25, 2008
People keep saying that CPS has 5 (five) pregnant teenagers. What ages are the
teenagers? You can be 17years, 360 days old and still be a teenager. Heck, you
can be 18-19 and you are still a teenager by definition. I would THINK that CPS
is saying there are non-adult teenagers pregnant, but they could STILL be OVER
the age of consent in Texas. CPS seems to have a major agenda in releasing
information to the press that is incorrect, misleading, vague and designed to
try this case in the court of public opinion. Better if they had just kept
their mouths shut and presented what they knew to the courts. Like the 13/14
year old they say is pregnant, but who STILL keeps coming up negative after 5
(five) pregnancy tests.
Ray | 11:05 a.m. May 25, 2008
If there were any teenage girls who felt trapped in situations they did not
enjoy, such as 'the horror of a polygomous teen marraige' they have
had a month to speak out.
None of the girls who were rescued wanted to be rescued.
Is this not the basic problem with the whole case?
None of the girls who were rescued wanted to be rescued!
None of the girls who were rescued wanted to be rescued.
Is this not the basic problem with the whole case?
None of the girls who were rescued wanted to be rescued!
Truth is hard to hear. | 4:56 a.m. May 28, 2008
With only a fifth grade education and years of a culturally indoctrination where
you're taught that going against that doctrine results in your fall from
grace of God, let alone the troubles that retribution would bring to those you
love, is it any surprise these girls choose to keep their mouths shut and
"keep sweet"?
This is not a valid religion, it is an evil cult that should be stopped. Warren Jeffs is the equivalent of Jim Jones.
This is not a valid religion, it is an evil cult that should be stopped. Warren Jeffs is the equivalent of Jim Jones.
Matt | 6:41 p.m. May 28, 2008
Wow. Cognitive dissonance, anyone?
The CPS is government. Government is bad!
The FLDS is not government. So FLDS is good!
No. They are a bunch of creepy weirdos who marry 13-year-old girls off to their 60-year-old uncle.
Would you let an FLDS man of 60, with four wives, marry and impregnate your 13-year old sister, daughter or niece?
Yeah. Sure. Of course you would.
The CPS is government. Government is bad!
The FLDS is not government. So FLDS is good!
No. They are a bunch of creepy weirdos who marry 13-year-old girls off to their 60-year-old uncle.
Would you let an FLDS man of 60, with four wives, marry and impregnate your 13-year old sister, daughter or niece?
Yeah. Sure. Of course you would.
Ray | 4:01 p.m. June 2, 2008
The CPS is truly out of control . Not just in Texas .It is all over the US . WV,
VT, Ect . They never have prof they just accuse with out prof . Then the burden
is on you to show prof of doing no wrong . The ones who are hurt are the
children whom they are supposed to be protecting . Instead of protecting they
are using them to break up families . The CPS and their policies needs looking
into . I have a copy and they are bent and used to disrupt families . I have not
had one good dealing with the CPS here in WV in four years. The Judges are the
next in line , they should follow the law there is no excuse for them .
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The CPS allegations are abuse. FLDS beliefs and practices are abusive, as I stated. Waht don't you understand?
You would be more convincing if you didn't try to twist things and simply stated facts.
As I said before, lots of FLDS practice twisting things for your own benefit. Unfortunately, in a logic war you would lose.