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Appeals court rules Texas acted improperly in removing FLDS children
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Jackie | 7:14 p.m. May 22, 2008
The abusers were the state of Texas. Why didnt they go after the Catholic kids
after all the Priest abuse or the Baptist kids which seems to be full of child
abusers in the clergy? Make sure the FLDS Church does not perform any under 18
year of age marriages. Any that want to leave can leave. Let them go appear on
Oprah. If we dont like that church, we dont need to attend it.
my2centsworth | 7:15 p.m. May 22, 2008
It's about time!!!! Finally some hope that the United States Judicial
System isn't completely screwed up. I was beginning to wonder. One prank
phone call and all constitutional rights go down the drain. Amazing. And
pathetic.
Comments continue below
Vegas Attorney | 7:20 p.m. May 22, 2008
I applaud the ruling. Let's hope the TX Supreme Court can do the same and
return the children to their parents.
wyogirl | 7:28 p.m. May 22, 2008
regarding the legal-aid lawyers:
I guess it is a good thing that SOME women are allowed to go to college and get law degree's. Isn't it ironic that the FLDS women got their children back thanks to these evil, worldly, women with their short hair and pant suits. Education gives a women power over her own destiny - I guess that is why MOST (notice I did not say all) FLDS women are not encouraged to go to college and their children USUALLY don't have more than an 8th grade education.
Reading the posts by men fighting about how many wives they will have in heaven is really sad. If heaven is as wonderful as everyone says it is Women will not be "collectors items" or rewards for good behavior.
I guess it is a good thing that SOME women are allowed to go to college and get law degree's. Isn't it ironic that the FLDS women got their children back thanks to these evil, worldly, women with their short hair and pant suits. Education gives a women power over her own destiny - I guess that is why MOST (notice I did not say all) FLDS women are not encouraged to go to college and their children USUALLY don't have more than an 8th grade education.
Reading the posts by men fighting about how many wives they will have in heaven is really sad. If heaven is as wonderful as everyone says it is Women will not be "collectors items" or rewards for good behavior.
John Lambert | 7:37 p.m. May 22, 2008
To Bob Bo:
I would like you to sight one source that gives the actually aid of Mary or Joseph. The older age of Joseph is largely a result of the Catholics trying to prove Mary was always a virgin.
I also take issue with your saying God chose to have Mary and Joseph marry. You may believe in predestination, but Mary seems to have chosen to marry Joseph not done so because she was commanded to.
I would like you to sight one source that gives the actually aid of Mary or Joseph. The older age of Joseph is largely a result of the Catholics trying to prove Mary was always a virgin.
I also take issue with your saying God chose to have Mary and Joseph marry. You may believe in predestination, but Mary seems to have chosen to marry Joseph not done so because she was commanded to.
Other religions | 7:38 p.m. May 22, 2008
Age of Marriage
No age limits have been fixed by Islam for marriage according to Levy,[29] and "quite young children may be legally married." The girl may not live with the husband however until she is fit for marital sexual relations.[30] The Hanafi madhhab of Islamic fiqh maintains that a wife must not be taken to her husband's house until she reaches the condition of fitness for sexual relations.
No age limits have been fixed by Islam for marriage according to Levy,[29] and "quite young children may be legally married." The girl may not live with the husband however until she is fit for marital sexual relations.[30] The Hanafi madhhab of Islamic fiqh maintains that a wife must not be taken to her husband's house until she reaches the condition of fitness for sexual relations.
Willy Steel | 7:41 p.m. May 22, 2008
Reply to: Brother Chuck Schroeder
Obviously by your own words you have no understanding of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. It wasn't Liberalism at work here, it was the law properly applied. Yes, the FLDS are a "spin off cult" of the LDS cult located in several states and Canada and your point is?
"ALL those men married underage girls-women married underage boys, should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law." Where is your evidence that this is a true statement. State doesn't seem to care. Fact is they can teach whatever they want,first amendment rights you know. Besides underage marriages happen all the time in this country, hardly prosecutable offence...."kid's removed from them by the letter of the law and put in prison to rot". Brother Chuck you are a hater not very Christian or LDS of you, is it!
Obviously by your own words you have no understanding of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. It wasn't Liberalism at work here, it was the law properly applied. Yes, the FLDS are a "spin off cult" of the LDS cult located in several states and Canada and your point is?
"ALL those men married underage girls-women married underage boys, should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law." Where is your evidence that this is a true statement. State doesn't seem to care. Fact is they can teach whatever they want,first amendment rights you know. Besides underage marriages happen all the time in this country, hardly prosecutable offence...."kid's removed from them by the letter of the law and put in prison to rot". Brother Chuck you are a hater not very Christian or LDS of you, is it!
Anonymous | 7:45 p.m. May 22, 2008
Lose-Lose says: "CPS loses their ability to protect the kids from abuse.
The FLDS kids lose their right to be protected from abuse.
The only winners are the FLDS men who can continue forcing young girls into sham marriages to be raped by old men, because the men have brainwashed everyone in the FLDS community to believe it is their religious right to do so."
I disagree. I think the polygamist men in the FLDS with under age wives are smart enough to leave Texas immediately. I think they will be afraid to go back to Arizona or Utah or Canada. I think they will be smart enough to stop. And if they don't they should be jailed for their own stupidity if nothing else.
The FLDS kids lose their right to be protected from abuse.
The only winners are the FLDS men who can continue forcing young girls into sham marriages to be raped by old men, because the men have brainwashed everyone in the FLDS community to believe it is their religious right to do so."
I disagree. I think the polygamist men in the FLDS with under age wives are smart enough to leave Texas immediately. I think they will be afraid to go back to Arizona or Utah or Canada. I think they will be smart enough to stop. And if they don't they should be jailed for their own stupidity if nothing else.
True Patriot | 7:47 p.m. May 22, 2008
SCARY!!! 6 weeks!!! Can you imagine? Do any of you have young children? Can
you imagine being wrongly accused (again, perhaps there is abuse, but the manner
this incompetent and DAMAGING CPS and State District Judge Barbara Walther have
torn the supposed victims from their mothers...AS IF THEY COULD CARE FOR THEM
BETTER!!! Now, again, if there's abuse, let there be order in the
courts...let justice play out in reasonable terms. Let the supposed state
"protectors" seek the perpetrators rather than the victims to
incarcerate...and let justice play out per the law.)...WRONGLY ACCUSED and your
children en masse (460!) taken....with some sort of blanket supposition.
INSANE!
"...after finding a pervasive pattern of sexual abuse that puts every child at the ranch at risk," - INSANE! (accusations such as this need testing by a court of order and reason. FASCISM is SCARY!
Appeals Court's response: "...acted hastily in removing them from their families... ...Removing children from their homes on an emergency basis before fully litigating the issue of whether the parents should continue to have custody of the children is an extreme measure." - EXTREME MEASURE!
"...after finding a pervasive pattern of sexual abuse that puts every child at the ranch at risk," - INSANE! (accusations such as this need testing by a court of order and reason. FASCISM is SCARY!
Appeals Court's response: "...acted hastily in removing them from their families... ...Removing children from their homes on an emergency basis before fully litigating the issue of whether the parents should continue to have custody of the children is an extreme measure." - EXTREME MEASURE!
Texas CPS | 7:48 p.m. May 22, 2008
This recent case against the FLDS shows how easy the
state can ruin your life. Many people who have little means to fight this unjust type of law get run over. The People and children who need help the most are the most at risk of CPS agency abuse.
I have never understood how a CPS type of agency could swoop down on parents who in most case's have
a better solution than foster homes.
I lived in foster homes for many years. The most abuse that I have ever seen or witnessed took place in foster homes. Forced labor, sexual abuse by the Foster parent upon little girls (6-10 yrs old).
Extensive alcoholism and drug use, illegal and theft of perscrptions of the children. malnutrion and apathy in regards to childrens needs.
The FLDS what ever there flaws (I'm sure there are some) have a much better lifestyle than any foster home I was in.
It might be prudent to have all the parents FLDS
sign a agreement that they will not allow any underage or forced marriages to occur in the compound
and allow people free movement to leave if they so desire.
CPS should be charged criminally.
state can ruin your life. Many people who have little means to fight this unjust type of law get run over. The People and children who need help the most are the most at risk of CPS agency abuse.
I have never understood how a CPS type of agency could swoop down on parents who in most case's have
a better solution than foster homes.
I lived in foster homes for many years. The most abuse that I have ever seen or witnessed took place in foster homes. Forced labor, sexual abuse by the Foster parent upon little girls (6-10 yrs old).
Extensive alcoholism and drug use, illegal and theft of perscrptions of the children. malnutrion and apathy in regards to childrens needs.
The FLDS what ever there flaws (I'm sure there are some) have a much better lifestyle than any foster home I was in.
It might be prudent to have all the parents FLDS
sign a agreement that they will not allow any underage or forced marriages to occur in the compound
and allow people free movement to leave if they so desire.
CPS should be charged criminally.
Dnews Moderator | 7:54 p.m. May 22, 2008
Comments not strictly on topic will be deleted. Thanks.
John Lambert | 8:07 p.m. May 22, 2008
To the person at 5:26:
"New and Everlasting Covenant" in Section 132 refers to Eternal Marriage. Read the section and see that God clearly states the law can be fulfilled if a man marries A WOMEN according to his law.
"New and Everlasting Covenant" in Section 132 refers to Eternal Marriage. Read the section and see that God clearly states the law can be fulfilled if a man marries A WOMEN according to his law.
Anonymous | 8:17 p.m. May 22, 2008
If a temple is defiled can it ever be used again??
pete | 8:19 p.m. May 22, 2008
Magnus, Fred , Alex and others, are all off the subject and promoting LDS
polygamy. So why are they still on here. All they want is one more wife. One is
never enough. However, all i want is one and NO MORE!
Southern Gals | 8:25 p.m. May 22, 2008
First- Let me start off by apologizing for our rude comment we made this
morning. It was not myself or my friends intent to hurt anyone. We were,
however, extremely disappointed by the ruling in TX today. We only know of this
story by what we read or see on local & primetime news. When we ran across
these comments we were in total disbelief. First off- we will say we are not
Baptists or Methodists or even members of the KKK (as some have thought). We,
however, know little if anything about your religion. We're not sure if the
majority of comments are from members of the FLDS or not but they all seem to be
praising the children going back into a bad situation. What we have heard and
watched shows these women and children treated like cattle or worse. Is it all
media "fluff". We are amazed to think that this type of treatment goes
on in our country and we all stand by and watch it happen. Accept our apology-
and teach us non-mormons what you really believe.
Jenay | 8:30 p.m. May 22, 2008
Geezers! Are all the polygamists sickies on here or what? You guys really make
me very sick!!!! I'm happy though, that the FLDS kids are back with their
moms. However, I do fear for the young girls and that the old geezers will get
their hands on them and force pregnancy on innocent girls -That is so scary!
To you polygamist seeking men---GET A LIFE ALL YOU DEVIATES! There is no, and never has been any such thing as an everlasting covenant. You men made that one up! Quit using God for your dirty works! I'm a young woman and I would never fall for all your made-up fairy-tales!
To you polygamist seeking men---GET A LIFE ALL YOU DEVIATES! There is no, and never has been any such thing as an everlasting covenant. You men made that one up! Quit using God for your dirty works! I'm a young woman and I would never fall for all your made-up fairy-tales!
John Lambert | 8:40 p.m. May 22, 2008
I still agree that the original comment from Southern Girl was hate speech.
Second, I wish the DN Moderator would go and delate that comment and several other comments that were clearly hate speech.
Second, I wish the DN Moderator would go and delate that comment and several other comments that were clearly hate speech.
J-man | 8:45 p.m. May 22, 2008
Does this mean that Merril Jessop will come out of hiding now????????
just a thought... | 8:50 p.m. May 22, 2008
Once again I am confused. When the 9th Court of Appeals ruled to overturn the
ban on Gay Marriage in California the outcry was Activist Judges!! Activist
Judges!! Scourge of the Land ! When a judge rules in Texas in favor of a group
you support you LOVE activist judges. Hmmm. Utah must be a very confusing place
to live.
A Voter | 8:51 p.m. May 22, 2008
The pen is mightier than the sword.
All voters in the state of Texas should make note of all the public officials involved in this injustice from the Governor on down thru the county level and to the city level and VOTE to have these officials Recalled and or voted out of office.
Even at the federal level, where the president was asked to interviene and did nothing, Ballots should be cast to remove those who abuse their authority and ignore the constitutional guarnaties afforded to its citizens.
All voters in the state of Texas should make note of all the public officials involved in this injustice from the Governor on down thru the county level and to the city level and VOTE to have these officials Recalled and or voted out of office.
Even at the federal level, where the president was asked to interviene and did nothing, Ballots should be cast to remove those who abuse their authority and ignore the constitutional guarnaties afforded to its citizens.
SLIPPERY-SLOPE | 8:59 p.m. May 22, 2008
THIS TEXAS CPS COMPLAINT, AFFIDAVIT, AND JUDGE'S ORDER AGAINST THE FLDS CUSTODY CASE IS BASED ON:
(X) [POLYGAMY "SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENT"] AS A FALLACY," AND
(X) [RELIGIOUS FREEDOM "SLIPPERY-SLOPE"] ARGUMENT AS FALLACY.
(X) "CHILD PROTECTION SLIPPERY-SLOPE" ARGUMENT AS A FALLACY
FIND THE DEFINITION OF (48) OR MORE TYPES OF FALLACIES. (WITH OR WITHOUT A PRIORI PROBABILITY)
SIGNED: RECKIPS
To Southern Gals | 9:02 p.m. May 22, 2008
Thanks for your reply. The Mormon Church LDS does not
practice poligamy. However Joseph Smith the founder and prophet of the LDS church did. The current leaders of the LDS church do not practice or allow
poligamy in the church.
The FLDS broke away from the first church because they wished to contenue to practice poligamy.
As for the media, the media is a whore of the goverment, police and itelligence agencys.
If you believe them you are buying there lies.
Most of the comments on this blog come from LDS
members. The News paper you are reading the Deseret News is owned by the LDS church. However all people in Salt Lake or Utah are not Mormon.
The FLDS church has really gotton a bad rap. They are
simple relgious people who believe that living a clean life is very important. NO tv, alcohol or drugs. Home schooling is recommened because of the
influence of non FLDS members can weaken there faith.
People are free to come and go. Young girls are not raped by old men. Spritual marriage must occur before sexual relations. They try to stay virgins until marriage.
Not long ago almost all marriges were arrainged.
practice poligamy. However Joseph Smith the founder and prophet of the LDS church did. The current leaders of the LDS church do not practice or allow
poligamy in the church.
The FLDS broke away from the first church because they wished to contenue to practice poligamy.
As for the media, the media is a whore of the goverment, police and itelligence agencys.
If you believe them you are buying there lies.
Most of the comments on this blog come from LDS
members. The News paper you are reading the Deseret News is owned by the LDS church. However all people in Salt Lake or Utah are not Mormon.
The FLDS church has really gotton a bad rap. They are
simple relgious people who believe that living a clean life is very important. NO tv, alcohol or drugs. Home schooling is recommened because of the
influence of non FLDS members can weaken there faith.
People are free to come and go. Young girls are not raped by old men. Spritual marriage must occur before sexual relations. They try to stay virgins until marriage.
Not long ago almost all marriges were arrainged.
Ing | 9:06 p.m. May 22, 2008
I don't think it was "hate speech." (What is that really,
anyway?) Just offensive and ill-informed. Still, I wouldn't mind if it
was deleted. Makes me wonder why some of my comments have not been posted while
some of these really offensive ones make it through.
Ted non-mem | 9:12 p.m. May 22, 2008
To John Lambert
You really should quit promoting polygamy. I read your whatever mormon 132 section. That is well written to benefit men ONLY. I really don't believe God had anything to do with your mormon scripture. But with the abuse of these FLDS girls, I would say to you that it is quit inappropriate.
You really should quit promoting polygamy. I read your whatever mormon 132 section. That is well written to benefit men ONLY. I really don't believe God had anything to do with your mormon scripture. But with the abuse of these FLDS girls, I would say to you that it is quit inappropriate.
Long Overdue Justice | 9:16 p.m. May 22, 2008
I think marriage should be between one man and one woman and be according to the
laws of the state or country where they reside. I disapprove of FLDS polygamy
and encourage state governments to thwart it using legal and lawful means.
But what Texas did here was over the top. Texas in effect trampled the Constitution and bent the law in order to achieve a desired outcome. Texas officials swallowed best-selling anti-polygamy books hook, line, and sinker and forgot about the weightier matters of justice and due process. This case exceeds the Duke Lacrosse infamy. When Americans think about the Salem Witch hangings, they are going to remember what Texas did in 2008.
But what Texas did here was over the top. Texas in effect trampled the Constitution and bent the law in order to achieve a desired outcome. Texas officials swallowed best-selling anti-polygamy books hook, line, and sinker and forgot about the weightier matters of justice and due process. This case exceeds the Duke Lacrosse infamy. When Americans think about the Salem Witch hangings, they are going to remember what Texas did in 2008.
To "Ing" | 9:27 p.m. May 22, 2008
I completely agree. "Gossip is the chief hell-maker," and there has
sure been a lot of hell made over this.
betty | 9:29 p.m. May 22, 2008
bumper sticker seen in atlanta, if you cant feed them, dont breed them. as a
taxpayer i resent having one cent of my money going to the multiply kids of this
cult.
re: to 4:27 | 9:29 p.m. May 22, 2008
Oh my, my! You have given me such a chuckle today, but I agree with you that it
is very unlikely I will end up with my "3 wives" as I am a
"wife" myself, albeit a monogamous one. So, do you want my
"kind" now? I hear you're recruiting. As to the rest, the New
and Everlasting Covenant was not abandoned, just put on temporary hiatus. As
for me, if a beautiful, righteous woman were able to attain the highest degree
of glory by marrying my husband, I'm all for it. But since that is not the
case now, I think it is not a relevant issue. There are other, more important
things on which to focus.
John Lamvert | 9:32 p.m. May 22, 2008
To comment at 8:50:
This was not an activist ruling. The judges did not say that polygamy was OK, they did not say that sexual relations with underage women who are not your spouse is OK.
Read the decision and you will see that the judges used the language of the current statuetes of Texas. They held CPS to the laws they are supposed to operate within and showed that CPS had not fulfilled the requrement of the laws to have an emergency denial of custody without full proceedings.
This is not activist judging put restraint in judging following the actual laws as they exist.
In California the judges threw out a law. Despite all peoples arguments about equal protection we all know that California is not about to throw out laws against incest. If is because the California judges really do accept that there are certain things that are not marriages, they just feel they should be the ones to decide what is and what is not a marriage and not the voters of California. That is when people are activist judges, not when they read the laws that the legislature has passed.
This was not an activist ruling. The judges did not say that polygamy was OK, they did not say that sexual relations with underage women who are not your spouse is OK.
Read the decision and you will see that the judges used the language of the current statuetes of Texas. They held CPS to the laws they are supposed to operate within and showed that CPS had not fulfilled the requrement of the laws to have an emergency denial of custody without full proceedings.
This is not activist judging put restraint in judging following the actual laws as they exist.
In California the judges threw out a law. Despite all peoples arguments about equal protection we all know that California is not about to throw out laws against incest. If is because the California judges really do accept that there are certain things that are not marriages, they just feel they should be the ones to decide what is and what is not a marriage and not the voters of California. That is when people are activist judges, not when they read the laws that the legislature has passed.
John Lambert | 9:35 p.m. May 22, 2008
Read the Appeals Court ruling and you will see the only document they site is
the Texas code relevant to removing children.
This is the one undisputed job of the courts, to determine if the action of government agents was within the realm of the existing statutes.
Anyway, stop throwing in the California issue. No one in California was having their children dragged off, having armed government agents attack them or anything similar.
This is the one undisputed job of the courts, to determine if the action of government agents was within the realm of the existing statutes.
Anyway, stop throwing in the California issue. No one in California was having their children dragged off, having armed government agents attack them or anything similar.
NOT A CONTROL FREAK | 9:40 p.m. May 22, 2008
The absolute WORST HARD CORE CHILD ABUSE was committed by the state of texas and
cps. I hope they get sued for many, many millions of dollars. Let peaceable
people live their lives as they see fit!
Ali O | 9:43 p.m. May 22, 2008
This maks me sick, how can the Judges conclude that Marrying off 16 year old
girls to their uncles does not constitute immediate danger, People who commit
Rape and infedelity in the name of Religion will earn a special place in
Hell...
I feel so sorry for those children their chance to get away from these lunatics and now we are going to send them back, well social services mine as well keep all the boys, the flds will just jick them off their ranch when they are old enough to become intrested in the girls heaven help the uncles not getting first pick... This makes me sick
I feel so sorry for those children their chance to get away from these lunatics and now we are going to send them back, well social services mine as well keep all the boys, the flds will just jick them off their ranch when they are old enough to become intrested in the girls heaven help the uncles not getting first pick... This makes me sick
just wondering | 9:53 p.m. May 22, 2008
Re:post at 9:32 ( Lambert)
Your last paragraph was so muddled I could not follow. I do think I get your point, but it is your interpretation of "activist" judge and not mine. Perhaps I should have just stated "the Judicial System". I notice you seem to respond and rebuke all those with whom you disagree. If you are going to do so in such a haughty manner may I suggest you brush up on your command of the rules of grammar and perhaps take a spelling course? Is it Lambert or Lambvert? Did you mean statutes? "If is" because..? Thank you. and by the way " I am still wondering"
Your last paragraph was so muddled I could not follow. I do think I get your point, but it is your interpretation of "activist" judge and not mine. Perhaps I should have just stated "the Judicial System". I notice you seem to respond and rebuke all those with whom you disagree. If you are going to do so in such a haughty manner may I suggest you brush up on your command of the rules of grammar and perhaps take a spelling course? Is it Lambert or Lambvert? Did you mean statutes? "If is" because..? Thank you. and by the way " I am still wondering"
Bruce | 9:53 p.m. May 22, 2008
Thank you Southern Gals for being open-minded enough to look for both sides of a
story. It would be a better world if everyone did.
And thanks Deseret News for allowing these forum exchanges.
I'm an inactive LDS and an ex-Texan.
This whole ugly episode has been a real lesson in how one-sided the television media really can be. They had those families pegged as the worst sort of humanity.
IMHO we could all learn something about being better human beings from them.
And thanks Deseret News for allowing these forum exchanges.
I'm an inactive LDS and an ex-Texan.
This whole ugly episode has been a real lesson in how one-sided the television media really can be. They had those families pegged as the worst sort of humanity.
IMHO we could all learn something about being better human beings from them.
The injustice begins | 9:55 p.m. May 22, 2008
the day that the first child is returned to the physically & emotionally
abusive parents. Read the legal documents & then decide who is wrong.
I cannot believe all of you people witb your heads in the YFZ ranch sand. Any one with half a brain knows that this abuse has been going on for years.
Think of your own little girls as the next young girl is married off & has to endure a filthy old man having illegal sex with her. Think of that the next time you accuse CPS of not doing their jobs.
Anyone who thinks it is ok to send children back to mothers who neglect their own children's emotional safety is no better than any of the perverts who rape the little girls. Read the legal documents then try to say that these are loving families when some family members are in hiding, or separated by the one and only Uncle Warren.
Loving & caring families don't kick the young boys so there is more little girls for the old men.
READ THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS AND THEN JUDGE
F ull of
L ying
D espicable
S inners
I cannot believe all of you people witb your heads in the YFZ ranch sand. Any one with half a brain knows that this abuse has been going on for years.
Think of your own little girls as the next young girl is married off & has to endure a filthy old man having illegal sex with her. Think of that the next time you accuse CPS of not doing their jobs.
Anyone who thinks it is ok to send children back to mothers who neglect their own children's emotional safety is no better than any of the perverts who rape the little girls. Read the legal documents then try to say that these are loving families when some family members are in hiding, or separated by the one and only Uncle Warren.
Loving & caring families don't kick the young boys so there is more little girls for the old men.
READ THE LEGAL DOCUMENTS AND THEN JUDGE
F ull of
L ying
D espicable
S inners
The so Called Prophet | 9:55 p.m. May 22, 2008
Hello People their Prophet who these people blindly listen to is sitting in an
Arizona Jail after being tried and convicted of arranging and preforming an
illegal underage marriage between two cousins... Obviously the people who are
shouting hurray on this blog are all members of their cult,
Anf hopefully one day will open their eyes and realize the manipulation that has caused all of these problems for them....
If my 16 year OLD Daughter had be Married off to one of her cousins or Uncles I would make sure the person who initiated it was castrated and yet nobody on this blog seems to think thats a problem....Unbeleivable
Anf hopefully one day will open their eyes and realize the manipulation that has caused all of these problems for them....
If my 16 year OLD Daughter had be Married off to one of her cousins or Uncles I would make sure the person who initiated it was castrated and yet nobody on this blog seems to think thats a problem....Unbeleivable
re: to DC from in Texas | 10:10 p.m. May 22, 2008
I am not sure why you called the people of Waco bigots. I live in this area of
Texas and yes, I have felt the harsh brutality of bigotry here. Yet, bigotry is
rampant on this site. I am sure a great many bigots here and elsewhere are not
living in Waco. It was Waco's legal authorities that were shut off from
helping with the Koresh Compound destruction. It was big brother government that
impeded the due process of the law that went awry in that incident. Do not
assume that the FLDS incident has anything to do with Waco. We are located 200
miles from the FLDS compound. We do, at this time, have some of the FLDS
children placed here in one of the finest private youth homes in Texas. They
have certified couselors and master teachers and staff on site. Please KNOW
your facts before condeming anyone involved in this extremely difficult and
complex mess concerning the situation with this group and the Texas laws.
Ing | 10:38 p.m. May 22, 2008
Wow. Commenters at 9:55...impressive. You should read the legal documents
yourself before telling everybody else to do it.
Eye Dee Ten Tee | 11:03 p.m. May 22, 2008
Remember it was Mr. Incredible that acted impulsivly, and that enabled the court
actions against all the Supers. If the lawyers and courts can bring down Supers,
then the Texas CPS is certainly vulnerable.
I'm just happy most people here are grounded in reality.
I'm just happy most people here are grounded in reality.
K | 11:05 p.m. May 22, 2008
I disagree with the courts decision that there are separate households on the
compound and can't be considered a single household. The children are being
communally raised. As we saw from the first tours after the children were
removed there was a mom in each room with many beds for children, some
her's others from sister wives or children from other families. The
children couldn't identify their mom's to CPS. They didn't know
their ages. There are still children not matched with parents. That's
FLDS's fault.
The 38 mothers who filed petition did so perhaps because they were the only ones actually technically old enough to have had them at a legal age.
Their leader is in prison for arranging a 14 year old to marry and taking girls across state lines. His picture is everywhere in the compound. Does anyone really think it wasn't happening there?
Would you like to be a 14 year old girl living in that place?
The 38 mothers who filed petition did so perhaps because they were the only ones actually technically old enough to have had them at a legal age.
Their leader is in prison for arranging a 14 year old to marry and taking girls across state lines. His picture is everywhere in the compound. Does anyone really think it wasn't happening there?
Would you like to be a 14 year old girl living in that place?
Lindsey | 11:21 p.m. May 22, 2008
I'd like to say, I'm happy that FLDS kids have been reunited with
their mothers. Texas should have gone after the FLDS men in the first place and
not the women. Everything would have worked out a bit better then what it has.
The young FLDS girls are no longer protected from the FLDS old men.
I have recently started looking into genealogy and the FLDS polygamist pedigree lines have stunned to me to no end, there are know branches on their family tree. It's like a tree stump with no top. Inbreeding needs to stop. This is not fair or righteous.
I have recently started looking into genealogy and the FLDS polygamist pedigree lines have stunned to me to no end, there are know branches on their family tree. It's like a tree stump with no top. Inbreeding needs to stop. This is not fair or righteous.
Ronald A. Young | 11:31 p.m. May 22, 2008
Sick and Wrong Ruling, very sick and Wrong.
Paula | 11:45 p.m. May 22, 2008
We, who have children, can all be grateful that some unknown person, pretending
to be someone who lived in our neighborhood, did not call a hotline and say
there was child abuse in our neighborhood. With situations like this, CPS could
come in, go door to door and take all our children away with no pre-warning or
known cause, just on a phone call.
Objective | 11:48 p.m. May 22, 2008
A real concern is people believing one side of an argument, force fed by the
government. Learn to be skeptical of the media and government. When you hear
government officials painting a group as "bad or evil" and
"requiring immediate action", alarms should sound.
I imagine there are some bad people in the compound as well as good. I imagine there are some bad people outside, with an ax to grind, who would contrive information. We should always exercise caution when implementing the overwhelming coercive power of the government. Demand more debate, more facts, more restraint.
I imagine there are some bad people in the compound as well as good. I imagine there are some bad people outside, with an ax to grind, who would contrive information. We should always exercise caution when implementing the overwhelming coercive power of the government. Demand more debate, more facts, more restraint.
Lynn | 1:59 a.m. May 23, 2008
Southern girl, your prejudice and ignorance are showing. We are not a cult, not
crazy, and not breeders. We are also not all from Utah. The true Mormons,
members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, are born again
Christians who believe and follow the teachings of our Savior, Jesus Christ. We
are not polygamists. Polygamy was revoked over 100 years ago, by revelation to
the Prophet Wilford Woodruff. It is a serious offense for a Mormon to practice
polygamy now, one which is punished by excommunication. We have absolutely no
ties with the FLDS, so quit lumping us all together!
We are a world-wide church of over 13 million members, over half of which are outside the US. We are thriving and growing, and will continue to do so. We have one of the largest humanitarian aid programs in the world, probably the largest missionary force on earth, and a choir that has been named America's Choir. Crazy cult? I think not! In fact, I KNOW not! Use a little common sense, and get better informed before you post your bigotry.
We are a world-wide church of over 13 million members, over half of which are outside the US. We are thriving and growing, and will continue to do so. We have one of the largest humanitarian aid programs in the world, probably the largest missionary force on earth, and a choir that has been named America's Choir. Crazy cult? I think not! In fact, I KNOW not! Use a little common sense, and get better informed before you post your bigotry.
Jeez | 5:23 a.m. May 23, 2008
When will some of you people "get it?" Merrill was not in hiding.
Underage girls were not being raped. Boys were not being tossed out. Children
were not being abused. Families were not living completely communally but in
apartments. The stories you heard were fiction, but you still insist on
repeating those lies which CPS was NOT able to produce evidence. Just because
it is in a book by an ex member, doesn't make it fact. If that had been
the case, those ex-members would have been presented as witnesses. They
weren't for a reason. Both Court Psychiatrist AND FLDS expert witnesses
stated that the children should not have been removed enmasse and were safe.
CPS and the court IGNORED the experts and removed all the children anyway.
Then, CPS removed the BOOK of MORMON. The court did not reprimand CPS for that
action either. The Appeals judges got the law right. No Evidence = No removal.
Hey Ali O | 5:28 a.m. May 23, 2008
Why is "marry a 16 to her uncle" not considered an immediate danger?
Because it didn't happen. There was no evidence of such. I can claim that
you worship Satan and commit human sacrifice. Does that statement make it fact
or evidence? No it doesn't and the FLDS deserve the same application of
law, even if you don't like them and even if others are willing to lie
about the actions of all. Again, from a previous post, if ex-members were so
reliable as witnesses, why were they NOT asked to testify? The answer should be
obvious to ANYBODY that pays attention.
Yes Ronald Young | 7:26 a.m. May 23, 2008
You are correct. The first ruling in which children were removed from their
homes was "sick and wrong." There was no evidence and a 27 year old
women was listed as minor, as well as many other adult women despite the fact
they many produced drivers licenses (issued by TX) and birth certificates. It
was truly "sick and wrong" that CPS considered gossip evidence. Truth
has now prevailed with a sane, legal ruling of judges over the insanity of one
judge.
TX Mom & Lawyer | 9:55 a.m. May 23, 2008
Being a mom and a lawyer in TX, this case has utterly fascinated me. I've
said from the beginning (too bad they didn't ask me), that CPS mishandled
and overstepped. I do think they had good intentions, but we all know what they
say about good intentions. After researching the practices of the FLDS, and
given the teenage pregnancies and very young wives that already had a few
children, I have no doubt that the underage "spiritual" marriage thing
(i.e., statutory rape) was happening--maybe not to all but at least to some.
The Ct of Appeals did the only thing they really could do. But now, because of
the mess, the FLDS will likely leave TX once they get their children back, and
not stick around for further investigation into the cases that could have been
proven. Not that I exactly hate to see them go...
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The more he learned, the less he spoke.
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