Reader comments
Appeals court rules Texas acted improperly in removing FLDS children
309 comments | Read story
E Plurus Unum | 12:18 p.m. May 22, 2008
To 'Lawsuits against Texas'. You may want to read up on
"sovereign immunity" a little more. The courts have ruled that there
are exceptions to it, several of which Texas CPS has very conveinently fulfilled
in this case.
John Lambert | 12:20 p.m. May 22, 2008
Now the children should be sent back home to the ranch. I doubt it will
happen though. CPS never gives up without a fight. No child will go home
unless CPS gets direct orders from the court to send that child home and then it
is appealed.
Maybe it will be harder, but I doubt it.
Maybe it will be harder, but I doubt it.
Comments continue below
J-man | 12:21 p.m. May 22, 2008
CPS please rush those kids back to the ranch ASAP! Merril Jessop needs some
young love!!!
Besides that, that ranch doesn't function without it's captive slave labor force of kids working instead of being educated. God forbid they would learn about dinosaurs and other proven scientific facts which Uncle Warren has outlawed.
Besides that, that ranch doesn't function without it's captive slave labor force of kids working instead of being educated. God forbid they would learn about dinosaurs and other proven scientific facts which Uncle Warren has outlawed.
Jan Shostak | 12:22 p.m. May 22, 2008
Just remember that unlike any other state, Texas has 2 levels of appellate court
before you get to their highest court. So the wackos and egomaniacs in the
Texas CPS will want to pursue this case further.
From a political point of view, this is what is going on:
The State of Texas administrators (Governor on down) have calculated the cost of keeping all these kids, and proving that they should not be returned to their parents on a case by case basis. This will be a huge cost, which the saner people running the Texas budget will oppose spending, and they will want to return the kids based on this new appellate court opinion.
On the other side of the coin in the Texas
government administration are the nut jobs who will want to "prove they were right" and who will want to appeal all the way to the top appellate court of the state. They will use the prospect of economic losses in civil rights lawsuits as justification for fighting today's court order to higher courts.
Continued below
From a political point of view, this is what is going on:
The State of Texas administrators (Governor on down) have calculated the cost of keeping all these kids, and proving that they should not be returned to their parents on a case by case basis. This will be a huge cost, which the saner people running the Texas budget will oppose spending, and they will want to return the kids based on this new appellate court opinion.
On the other side of the coin in the Texas
government administration are the nut jobs who will want to "prove they were right" and who will want to appeal all the way to the top appellate court of the state. They will use the prospect of economic losses in civil rights lawsuits as justification for fighting today's court order to higher courts.
Continued below
Ray | 12:23 p.m. May 22, 2008
If it is only 48 mothers who get their children back, then if I was not one, my
appeal would be on the judge's desk TODAY. This will, if you are correct,
open the door for legality justice for the other mothers. I am proud of the
mothers for figthing tooth and nail for their children. I would. (Don't
give me anything about abusers getting their children back..the current court
hearings are proving CPS wrong and even labeling cases NO ABUSE and MHMR said
that WE need to take lessons from them..don't judge a community for a FEW
(yeah 1-5 max it seems now) perverted men's actions..that is what got this
appeal won in the first place)
Sad Day | 12:23 p.m. May 22, 2008
It is a sad day when some liberal activist judges let terrible law braking
poeple hide behind the Constitution. The Constitution is meant to be used to
protect us, not to let evil people continue their heinuous practices. Hopefully
the Supreme Court of Texas will follow the example of their former Governor,
President Bush, who has shown since 9/11 that is better to ignore some parts of
the Constitution in order to prosecute evildoers and protect us all.
COSMO | 12:24 p.m. May 22, 2008
Re:Gloating FLDS 11:36,I am not FLDS,nor do I wish to be.
TEXAS CPS was wrong period.I stated early on,if a crime had been committed,then bring charges up on the ones suspected of criminal behavior. But this
blanket Drag Net, strong arm tactic was doomed to
failure from the begining.
Some good may come from this, all CPS agencies are
guilty of similar Crimes, Against Humanity! And they
clearly need to be placed under control.
In Wisconsin, the CPS Goons were going around to
schools, and demanding that children remove their
clothes,to check for bruises.No Parents, no Teachers
no Police. Talk about abuse. Just one example,lots more exist. P.S. a higher court just slammed that CPS agency on that one.
Last item is, if there were abuse at the FLDS ranch,
I imagine that the Texas CPS have made it all but impossible to address it by this time.
TEXAS CPS was wrong period.I stated early on,if a crime had been committed,then bring charges up on the ones suspected of criminal behavior. But this
blanket Drag Net, strong arm tactic was doomed to
failure from the begining.
Some good may come from this, all CPS agencies are
guilty of similar Crimes, Against Humanity! And they
clearly need to be placed under control.
In Wisconsin, the CPS Goons were going around to
schools, and demanding that children remove their
clothes,to check for bruises.No Parents, no Teachers
no Police. Talk about abuse. Just one example,lots more exist. P.S. a higher court just slammed that CPS agency on that one.
Last item is, if there were abuse at the FLDS ranch,
I imagine that the Texas CPS have made it all but impossible to address it by this time.
Re: Southern girl | 12:26 p.m. May 22, 2008
Bigotted and ignorant. A sad combination.
The FLDS are not Mormons and they have large communities in Utah, Arizona, Texas, and Canada.
The FLDS are not Mormons and they have large communities in Utah, Arizona, Texas, and Canada.
E Plurus Unum | 12:28 p.m. May 22, 2008
Wow! After reading the comments from 'Southern Girl' and such the real
motivations for this nonsense come out. Good old fashioned bigotry. How can
you stand to think like that. Do you really believe that you are truely saved
breathing out fire and hate like that?
trish Callahan | 12:28 p.m. May 22, 2008
Oh, please. These people are to adhere to the law of the land. Polygamy is
against the law...period! The mothers and children need to be de-programmed. The
men need to be punished as any other abuser or rapist
For the Kids | 12:28 p.m. May 22, 2008
I hope that the injustices perpetrated against the innocent of the women and
children by the state of Texas will now come to a stop. But I think that any of
the kids who were born to under age mothers need to go back to those mothers and
then they should receive more state help as a separated group until the state
can identify from the DNA testing who the fathers are. Then those men who
married these underage gals should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
And So | 12:29 p.m. May 22, 2008
Testosterone laden males head back to the ranch in search of female
companionship...
Jen Shostak | 12:31 p.m. May 22, 2008
So, the decision making on "What to do now" is coming from a high
level of the administrative branch of the government of the State of Texas.
Their lawyers who defend "civil rights cases" will tell them that there is ZERO chance that any FLDS parent or child will prevail in a 42 USC 1983 case because the children were seized pursuant to a court order and sent to foster homes pursuant to a court order. There is such thing as "judicial immunity" and there is no way to sue the judge, or any public official who acted pursuant to the court order. Similarly, there is a concept of immunity for state employees who were acting within the course and scope of their job descriptions, which the Texas CPS people were.
So what you will now see from those holding the purse strings in the Texas state government is a little battle between those trying to save money (and not afraid of sure to fail civil rights cases) and those administrators who will want to spend Texas last dollar "proving they are right".
Their lawyers who defend "civil rights cases" will tell them that there is ZERO chance that any FLDS parent or child will prevail in a 42 USC 1983 case because the children were seized pursuant to a court order and sent to foster homes pursuant to a court order. There is such thing as "judicial immunity" and there is no way to sue the judge, or any public official who acted pursuant to the court order. Similarly, there is a concept of immunity for state employees who were acting within the course and scope of their job descriptions, which the Texas CPS people were.
So what you will now see from those holding the purse strings in the Texas state government is a little battle between those trying to save money (and not afraid of sure to fail civil rights cases) and those administrators who will want to spend Texas last dollar "proving they are right".
in Texas | 12:32 p.m. May 22, 2008
Again, I will comment since a writing about another article written here
previously. The situation started incorrectly and was handled in way that was
certain to encourage a barage of litigations. The children will not come out
the winner in this no matter what occurs now. Children are not computer
programs that can be rewritten or a Hallmark movie with a simple ending. The
help for these children will take years. I am a professional that had
interaction with some of the surviving Koresh children. Due to this recent
situation, we have been in contact with a few of these children (now adults).
They can only shake their heads and tell us that the road for them is still long
and they only see pain and heatache for the FLDS children. I agree.
immunity | 12:32 p.m. May 22, 2008
While Judges are more likely to get away with sovereign immunity, CPS is not.
John Lambert | 12:33 p.m. May 22, 2008
The ruling may only affect the 48 mothers and their children. However, it
calls in question Walther's decision to remove all the children and means
that the judges can no longer treat the removal of the children as a fait
accompli.
I urge all FLDS to not sign any of the CPS plans until it is clear that the children in question were legally taken. I would urge every effort be used to point out that Rosita "Sarah" was never at the ranch and the initially raid is done in by the fruit of the forbidden tree doctrine.
I have to admit that I ignored this story early on. However since I learned that the whole Sarah case was a hoax I have been an advocate for the return of the children.
I urge all FLDS to not sign any of the CPS plans until it is clear that the children in question were legally taken. I would urge every effort be used to point out that Rosita "Sarah" was never at the ranch and the initially raid is done in by the fruit of the forbidden tree doctrine.
I have to admit that I ignored this story early on. However since I learned that the whole Sarah case was a hoax I have been an advocate for the return of the children.
to Southern Girl | 12:33 p.m. May 22, 2008
Sounds if you are from the KKK cult.
E Plurus Unum | 12:35 p.m. May 22, 2008
To 'Sad Day'. Do I have permission to reuse your post about
'ignoring parts of the constitution' in every civics class in the
coutry as a modern example of why we have judicial review? The bill of rights
was added to the constitution to protect the rest of us from people like you.
oh bother | 12:35 p.m. May 22, 2008
The MEN are just as BRAINWASHED as the women. Why hold the men to a different
standard? And, in actuality neither is brainwashed it was merely their
upbringing. Why do you excuse the CPS for removing the Book of Mormon? That
will likely end up in Federal Court as an issue.
My Jets Are Cool | 12:37 p.m. May 22, 2008
This is worth celebrating because it's the first affirmation that the
arrogant Texas CPS was far too heavy-handed and self-righteous about their
suppositions. Even a 27 year-old mother was seized and held as a
"minor." With nutty Warren Jeffs in prison for the rest of his life,
maybe these people can find a way to practice their religion without letting
their nuttier members marry minors, and give their children freedom to choose
whether to adopt the lifestyle when they're 18.
I believe their abuses were genuine, but far less common than we've been led to believe, and certainly not so widespread as to warrant kidnapping 450 children and sequestering them away from their mothers. For example, it's now proven that none of these people received welfare checks, though that was one of the common allegations of the Texas evangelists.
I believe their abuses were genuine, but far less common than we've been led to believe, and certainly not so widespread as to warrant kidnapping 450 children and sequestering them away from their mothers. For example, it's now proven that none of these people received welfare checks, though that was one of the common allegations of the Texas evangelists.
Catbyrd | 12:36 p.m. May 22, 2008
CPS would be crazy to keep children in custody without specific allegations of
abuse that show immediate danger should the child remain in the home. A
specific allegation is X did Y to Z and if Z is not removed X will continue to
do Y.
The Appeals Court Objected, and rightly so, to the broad brush that was applied in this case. At the initial hearing before Walther there were NO specific allegations made. Walther acted improperly in ordering the children removed pending an investigation because there had been no specific allegation to investigate at the time. Walther doesn't have the sense God gave a goose and should not be on the bench.
The FLDS need only to exercise their constitutional right to vote and in Schleicher, County, population, 2800, current elected officials will be looking for jobs at the Stop & Go. This is an election year.
The Appeals Court Objected, and rightly so, to the broad brush that was applied in this case. At the initial hearing before Walther there were NO specific allegations made. Walther acted improperly in ordering the children removed pending an investigation because there had been no specific allegation to investigate at the time. Walther doesn't have the sense God gave a goose and should not be on the bench.
The FLDS need only to exercise their constitutional right to vote and in Schleicher, County, population, 2800, current elected officials will be looking for jobs at the Stop & Go. This is an election year.
I told you so! | 12:38 p.m. May 22, 2008
I've been saying the way Texas went about this and the broad scope of the
actions they took was illegal.
After they re-group and make sure they do this in a legal manner maybe I can get behind what Texas is doing. I'm sure there are some cases of abuse out there, and they need to be stopped, but that doesn't mean you can play the "Don't mess with Texas" macho game and just round everybody up. Texas is still part of the United States and we do have constitutional rights (even though many think Texas is "A whole nother country".
Now I hope they can prosecute the cases they can prove in an orderly manner, instead of treating these people as cattle.
I'm especially happy the children will be able to live with their parents unless there is evidence of a problem in their family (instead of just the guilt-by-association) criteria Texas was using previous to this court ruling.
After they re-group and make sure they do this in a legal manner maybe I can get behind what Texas is doing. I'm sure there are some cases of abuse out there, and they need to be stopped, but that doesn't mean you can play the "Don't mess with Texas" macho game and just round everybody up. Texas is still part of the United States and we do have constitutional rights (even though many think Texas is "A whole nother country".
Now I hope they can prosecute the cases they can prove in an orderly manner, instead of treating these people as cattle.
I'm especially happy the children will be able to live with their parents unless there is evidence of a problem in their family (instead of just the guilt-by-association) criteria Texas was using previous to this court ruling.
To Southern Girl | 12:41 p.m. May 22, 2008
If being a crazy mormon mean standing up for the rights of others even when I
disagree with their beliefs, then I happily accept the charge. Kidnapping 400+
children is wrong, and I will ever stand against it.
It is vital that we uphold the law, including going after those who have committed crimes -- but only those who have committed them. No blanket arrests or siezures of people who are merely associated with criminals via religious ties. Once the children are returned to their mothers were they belong, then the law can and should proceed to investigate and prosecute those who broke the law. And if it is proven that all of the mothers, individually, broke the law and deserve to go to jail, then take their children away from them. But they are innocent until proven guilty.
It is vital that we uphold the law, including going after those who have committed crimes -- but only those who have committed them. No blanket arrests or siezures of people who are merely associated with criminals via religious ties. Once the children are returned to their mothers were they belong, then the law can and should proceed to investigate and prosecute those who broke the law. And if it is proven that all of the mothers, individually, broke the law and deserve to go to jail, then take their children away from them. But they are innocent until proven guilty.
to who's fooling who | 12:41 p.m. May 22, 2008
The FLDS is "so vindictive," they would never let ex-members escape
and write sleazy tell-all novels... uh, right?
Who are the vindictive ones, again?
Oh, the ones who use false-flag operations to capture and imprison hundreds of children becaue of their belief system... oh wait, that was the Texas government.
Who are the vindictive ones, again?
Oh, the ones who use false-flag operations to capture and imprison hundreds of children becaue of their belief system... oh wait, that was the Texas government.
Moron from ca | 12:40 p.m. May 22, 2008
Its about time to much goverment in this country and down with CPS to much power
!
John Lambert | 12:40 p.m. May 22, 2008
The constitution is written to protect criminals from excessive prosecution by
the government.
I do not see this ruling as liberal or activists. It was based on the current law and did not declare unconstitutional any existing law. Actually my main gripe is that the court took so long to rule. If it had ruled before any parents had been coerced into signing the CPS plans things would have been much better.
I did not know Texas had a unique, two-level appeals court system. If that is really the case, which I have no reason to doubt, I am sure we will see CPS appeal. I think I will try to convince my newly graduated from law school sister to go to Texas and pass the bar. It looks like there will be no lack of jobs for lawyers there anytime soon.
I do not see this ruling as liberal or activists. It was based on the current law and did not declare unconstitutional any existing law. Actually my main gripe is that the court took so long to rule. If it had ruled before any parents had been coerced into signing the CPS plans things would have been much better.
I did not know Texas had a unique, two-level appeals court system. If that is really the case, which I have no reason to doubt, I am sure we will see CPS appeal. I think I will try to convince my newly graduated from law school sister to go to Texas and pass the bar. It looks like there will be no lack of jobs for lawyers there anytime soon.
Jerold | 12:41 p.m. May 22, 2008
I never knew anything about Child and Family Services until the Parker Jensen
case a few years back in this state, when they issue a warrant for the arrest of
Parker's parents for "kidnapping" him simply because they wanted
to get a second doctor's opinion.
This Texas case proves that CFS, whether here or in Texas, is clearly a government agency gone way bad. If I were king for a day, that's one operation I'd shut down.
This is also clearly a case of religious intolerance. This wasn't about child abuse, it was about getting rid of a religious community that some people didn't like.
And for you LDS members who were cheering on Texas authorities, get this through your thick skulls--you're next. 98% of the country doesn't think yours is the only true church. They don't understand closed temples, sacred garments, the Book of Mormon, heavenly visions to a 14 year-old farm boy, no blacks or gays in the priesthood, etc. They also think you're a cult. And I'm an active Mormon.
Still, this is very good news. Now hopefully the kids can be reunited with their parents.
This Texas case proves that CFS, whether here or in Texas, is clearly a government agency gone way bad. If I were king for a day, that's one operation I'd shut down.
This is also clearly a case of religious intolerance. This wasn't about child abuse, it was about getting rid of a religious community that some people didn't like.
And for you LDS members who were cheering on Texas authorities, get this through your thick skulls--you're next. 98% of the country doesn't think yours is the only true church. They don't understand closed temples, sacred garments, the Book of Mormon, heavenly visions to a 14 year-old farm boy, no blacks or gays in the priesthood, etc. They also think you're a cult. And I'm an active Mormon.
Still, this is very good news. Now hopefully the kids can be reunited with their parents.
COSMO | 12:42 p.m. May 22, 2008
Good grief Southern girl,please get your story straight!
re: Southern Girl | 12:43 p.m. May 22, 2008
What is a cult baby? Also, it is 'their' not 'there'. You
also need a period (not and ellipses) after your first sentence. You should
have said "all of you" rather than "all you". The word
'breed' was used and capitalized incorrectly. Only one exclamation
point is necessary after an exclamatory sentence. The word 'nuts' was
inappropriately capitalized. Your grammar is as uneducated as your opinion was.
Finally | 12:43 p.m. May 22, 2008
Having worked for a family court judge for two years and reviewed emergency
custody motions regularly, I was shocked that emergency custody was granted to
DCFS in this case, where the only "imminent danger" to the large
majority of the children was teaching by the parents. If a parent would have
come into my judge's court requesting emergency custody because the other
parent was teaching things that he/she deemed harmful to the child, which could
potentially result in abuse in 2-14 years, the court would not have thought
twice before denying the motion and telling the moving party to file a motion
where everyone gets notice and an opportunity to be heard before I go in and
take a child out of the home.
Due process requires notice and a hearing before any action takes place, except in emergency situations where there is imminent danger. Indoctrinating a child, which may lead to abuse years down the road is not imminent. I'm glad that the appeals court finally got it right.
Due process requires notice and a hearing before any action takes place, except in emergency situations where there is imminent danger. Indoctrinating a child, which may lead to abuse years down the road is not imminent. I'm glad that the appeals court finally got it right.
DC | 12:43 p.m. May 22, 2008
The people still defending CPS (usually with repellent bigotry and puerile
slogans like "Don't Mess with Texas") might want to look at the
Appellate Court's opinion. You can find it on Texas Rio Grand Legal
Aid's website. I just read it; it sets out the facts without exaggeration
or spin. And it makes clear that the question is not even close: there was
simply no justification for rounding up all the children and taking them. None.
The CPS failed in *every* respect to justify its actions. There were at most 5
girls alleged to have been harmed in the past, and the risk of future harm even
to those 5 girls was not immediate. In those circumstances Texas law requires
CPS to use less intrusive means of addressing its concern for the
children's welfare. It's easy reading, and very gratfying for those
of us who have been increasingly disgusted with the actions of the backwoods
Waco bigots and their moronic cheerleaders on this site who are willing to
defame people they have never met on the basis of every wild rumor they read on
the internet.
Rights | 12:43 p.m. May 22, 2008
Like FLDS lifestyle or not, justice must be served or we are all in danger of
bigotry gone wild. This ruling will force CPS to achieve their desired
protective power for the children, but within the limits of protecting
individual rights. I'm sure they are not done nor should they be.
To who's fooling who | 12:45 p.m. May 22, 2008
The FLDS do not treat those that have left badly as many ex-flds have proven.
Are there a few ex-flds that speak venomously about the FLDS? Yes. It is those
few disgruntled former members that duped TX into the action that the appeals
court is now rectifying. The liars were shown to be liars.
Nope, not flds and have personal issues with their beliefs but simultaneously allow them the privilege to worship freely since child abuse claims were found unproven and unjustified.
Nope, not flds and have personal issues with their beliefs but simultaneously allow them the privilege to worship freely since child abuse claims were found unproven and unjustified.
Gal50 | 12:46 p.m. May 22, 2008
While the ruling was for 48 mothers, one would expect CPS to follow the ruling
for nearly all of the mothers since they were probably no different. Once there
is a court ruling, it should apply to everyone in that situation.
What is extremely sad is the decline of the FLDS church into a sect that is thoroughly controlled by one person who happens to be in jail for child sex abuse. Now it will be nearly impossible to help these children recover from the abusive nature of their leader.
The ruling does indicate that Utah and Arizona's laid back procedures should be given more credit. They have come under fire for not doing enough and for allowing abuse to continue, but apparently when a person abuses his power, there is nothing much the government can do. Young girls will still be forced to have sex with old men.
Moving forward will be a different path than reversing what has already happened. You can't reverse it. There may be an appeal of the appeal. And what happens to the children who were seized due to obvious abuse or the children who upon investigation were found to be abused?
What is extremely sad is the decline of the FLDS church into a sect that is thoroughly controlled by one person who happens to be in jail for child sex abuse. Now it will be nearly impossible to help these children recover from the abusive nature of their leader.
The ruling does indicate that Utah and Arizona's laid back procedures should be given more credit. They have come under fire for not doing enough and for allowing abuse to continue, but apparently when a person abuses his power, there is nothing much the government can do. Young girls will still be forced to have sex with old men.
Moving forward will be a different path than reversing what has already happened. You can't reverse it. There may be an appeal of the appeal. And what happens to the children who were seized due to obvious abuse or the children who upon investigation were found to be abused?
Legal Beagle | 12:45 p.m. May 22, 2008
I'm not going to say I told you so! Really, I'm not going to say I
told you so, no matter how right I was or how clearly I got it right in my
initial analysis, I will refrain from saying I told you so that taking the
under-puberty children not in imminent danger would be the undoing of the TX
CPS. I just won't say it, so don't try to talk me into it!
Oh, I can't stop myself...I told you so!
Oh, I can't stop myself...I told you so!
E Plurus Unum | 12:47 p.m. May 22, 2008
Sadly for the children this is not over. CPS, in Texas and every other state,
sees it as their god-given right to operate above the law and without review for
'the good of the children'. They will fight oversight at any and all
costs. Every case will be appealed to the Texas supreme court, individually,
before they accept a ruling like this. The law has never applied to them before
so why should it now?
You want a prediction - Federal mashalls from other states armed with Federal warrents will be needed to pry these children from the Texas foster care system. And when they do come CPS will shuffle the kids around, hide them and do everything possible to hinder returning the children. Anyone who thinks differently has never tried to fight CPS before.
You want a prediction - Federal mashalls from other states armed with Federal warrents will be needed to pry these children from the Texas foster care system. And when they do come CPS will shuffle the kids around, hide them and do everything possible to hinder returning the children. Anyone who thinks differently has never tried to fight CPS before.
American | 12:49 p.m. May 22, 2008
The damage Texas has done will be long lasting in the fight against this kind of
abuse. They (authorities) made too many mistakes in trying to right some wrongs
and by so doing they abused innocent people - this is unconscionable. The
result will be much worse than they can imagine had this atrocity not occurred.
The FLDS will tighten their grip and inroads made in Utah and Arizona will be
detoured as well. You just don't force your ideas on people this way in
the name of protection. There must be some proof of actual danger, not the mere
appearance or possibility of danger.
This was the wrong and un-American way to do things. Justice must be served and constitutional rights adhered to, even when investigating real problems. We have been known to let cold-blooded murderers go because due process was not observed. Why did Texas think they could go out on their own program here and have it actually work.
I want the women and children to have protection but they were treated as criminals in Texas; not protected. Now it will only be worse because of the power-hungry and abusive CPS. Hope they're happy!
This was the wrong and un-American way to do things. Justice must be served and constitutional rights adhered to, even when investigating real problems. We have been known to let cold-blooded murderers go because due process was not observed. Why did Texas think they could go out on their own program here and have it actually work.
I want the women and children to have protection but they were treated as criminals in Texas; not protected. Now it will only be worse because of the power-hungry and abusive CPS. Hope they're happy!
Colorado | 12:51 p.m. May 22, 2008
In the first place, the men should have been rounded up instead of the women and
children. Then the abuse would have immediately ended. Not that I totally
believe that the mothers are innocent; but, the direct abuse of these young
girls was done by the men. So CPS, when are you going after the real criminals?
It's the men! Got it?
As with ALL government agencies, they idiots!!!
As with ALL government agencies, they idiots!!!
True Patriot | 12:50 p.m. May 22, 2008
Thank GOD there is still at least one judge who understands the principles upon
which this country was founded.
Freedom!
Freedom!
Thank you America | 12:57 p.m. May 22, 2008
Thank you Justice System. for protecting all of us Americans. Tyrants that
attack America need to remember you attack one of us you attack all of us!
Truth will prevail.
CommonSenseForUtah | 12:58 p.m. May 22, 2008
Finally! Someone in Texas with a brain!
I hope this goes horribly bad for every official involved in the decision making process. A horrible injustice was done to those people.
I hope this goes horribly bad for every official involved in the decision making process. A horrible injustice was done to those people.
Believer in Constitution. | 12:57 p.m. May 22, 2008
You don't have to condone what the FLDS may be doing that's wrong to
rejoice in the upholding of the Constitution. The founding fathers were
inspired and there are proper ways to deal with lawbreakers - this was not it!
The Constitution was never meant to be changed or altered. Additional laws, bills, etc. cover what the Constitution did not, but we should not be messing with the Constitution and if this country begins to thumb it's proverbial nose at it, woe unto us all. Freedom as we have known it will be ultimately lost for us all.
The Constitution was never meant to be changed or altered. Additional laws, bills, etc. cover what the Constitution did not, but we should not be messing with the Constitution and if this country begins to thumb it's proverbial nose at it, woe unto us all. Freedom as we have known it will be ultimately lost for us all.
John Lambert | 12:59 p.m. May 22, 2008
Well, I have now read the Appeals Court Opinion. What I gather from it is the
Following:
1. that the YFZ ranch does not constitute a sole household, but can be treated as multiple households.
2. CPS has provided insufficient evidence of abuse of any minor to justify the removal of children since they have not proved that the conceptions of the children was not in a legal marriage.
3. CPS has not demostrated danger to anyone at the ranch except pubescent minor females, and even that is less than clear.
4. CPS has failed all requirements of the laws of Texas.
5. This ruling only directly effects the 38 mothers who brought the case.
1. that the YFZ ranch does not constitute a sole household, but can be treated as multiple households.
2. CPS has provided insufficient evidence of abuse of any minor to justify the removal of children since they have not proved that the conceptions of the children was not in a legal marriage.
3. CPS has not demostrated danger to anyone at the ranch except pubescent minor females, and even that is less than clear.
4. CPS has failed all requirements of the laws of Texas.
5. This ruling only directly effects the 38 mothers who brought the case.
Look at it this way.... | 1:01 p.m. May 22, 2008
We all have different opinions on this matter, and I respect the various
opinions offered. Many of you "take the side of the children", ie,
remove them from "harm's way", get them out of what YOU believe
is a harmful environment. Many of you feel that religious and parental rights
have been violated. Each viewpoint has some meritorious aspects. In the end
the LAW and the constitution (both of Texas and the United States) is what
should be respected by the courts. Using emotions to base a decision on what to
do is wrong, as "right" as it may seem. The reason for this is
simple...we live in a society governed by law (statutory law and rights
guaranteed by constitutional provisions). We either respect our laws, above all
else, or we do not. I do not like what the FLDS do, but I believe we (and the
courts) must respect their rights vigorously. If we fail to protect these
people, the day may come when we will find ourselves in an unpopular position
and our rights may be trampled upon. Cudos to the court of appeals in Texas.
Re: Catbyrdd | 1:04 p.m. May 22, 2008
CPS is crazy, so they might still hold them--they are filled to the brim with
pride and justification and feel above the law.. They even tried to
"raid" the ranch again..just to lure people away from the fact that
the court cases were exposing their lies..."abuses" and especially the
14 year old girl who is not pregnant..Leaves the youngest at 16..oops! and 31
is down to 21 as of YESTERDAY and most are expected to be adults..oops again!
CPS should have the children removed from THEIR care due to REAL ABUSE THAT CAN
BE PROVEN. Let's get those children on the stand to testify to the physical
and emotional abuse and neglect (like the 2 year old who was not fed, changed,
or given water for over 24 hours) and have CPS's parental rights
terminated.
Loud applause | 1:07 p.m. May 22, 2008
Loud applause! Good to see justice done. I can't understand why Texas
thought they were in the right. What a mess and the kids paid the price. So, who
is accountable?
To Legal Beagle | 1:09 p.m. May 22, 2008
Amen, Legal Beagle! You've had it pegged from the beginning. Let's
hope that things continue to move in the right and fair direction.
Thomas | 1:10 p.m. May 22, 2008
MIracles occure
Lose-Lose-Win Situation | 1:10 p.m. May 22, 2008
CPS loses their ability to protect the kids from abuse.
The FLDS kids lose their right to be protected from abuse.
The only winners are the FLDS men who can continue forcing young girls into sham marriages to be raped by old men, because the men have brainwashed everyone in the FLDS community to believe it is their religious right to do so.
The FLDS kids lose their right to be protected from abuse.
The only winners are the FLDS men who can continue forcing young girls into sham marriages to be raped by old men, because the men have brainwashed everyone in the FLDS community to believe it is their religious right to do so.
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
Related content
- George lost in rivalry hatefest 1:33 a.m.
- Paul returns after being out 1:04 a.m.
- Nets finally win 1:04 a.m.
- Olympus downs Box Elder 1:03 a.m.
- Saint Mary's next for Aggies 1:03 a.m.
- Cougars look to bounce back 1:03 a.m.
- Battle goes to PG's Hamson 1:03 a.m.
- Snow hopes to snap bowl game skid 1:03 a.m.
- U.S. gets favorable World Cup draw 1:03 a.m.
- Utah's Wynn healing up 1:03 a.m.
- Ed Smart 'appalled' at testimony
- Mr. Football 2009: Tuni Kanuch
- 5A high school football All-State
- Miller predicted Tiger's rough road
- Utah Jazz going green with unis
- 4A high school football: All-State
- Harpring's NBA career is over
- Nutty Putty Cave to be sealed today
- MVPs wrap up stellar prep careers
- Jazz: Miles, Kirilenko to play Friday
- Hall reprimanded by MWC
410 - Why is Y. ignoring spew of hatred?294
- BYU says Hall incident resolved247
- Letters: Liberal because LDS237
- 2 citations issued at Y.-U. game189
- Hate not limited to 1 in-state rivalry184
- Aggies shoot past Cougars179
- Max Hall: a fixture in rivalry lore118
- N.Y. Senate rejects gay marriage118
- Unbeaten BYU takes trip to Logan104
Trolley Square's annual Holiday Open House will feature visits with...
That does it — I'm having an affair! Thanks to Tiger Woods, David...
First, a big thank you to all who posted questions here for me to ask...
Latest comments
and they are correct. Good grief.
In the wake of a great, competitive game all people can talk about is Max...
For those who keep saying there are other places where you can go "to...
Boozer is just doing and showing what he has always had, Talent! As long as...
Condolences to the LeBaron family! He was the mission Pres in South Africa...
I've enjoyed reading Dick Harmon's articles through the years. An enduring...
I think we have found our stride. But we need to bring in one more player to...
to make a move until nearer the deadline. You can't get the best player until...
"If this team had an interior Defense for 48 minutes they would contend. "...
What have you done for me lately, Boozer? Well, lately Boozer has been...
Advertisements
You'll see multiple lawsuits filed within a month.
Unfortunately, only the controlling old men who run the FLDS will ever see a dime of any settlements the FLDS may win.
The real victims, the abused children, won't see a penny. Uncle Warren's grip on them will be tightened even more as the FLDS kids are re-indoctrinated to erase anything they may have learned from the evil outsiders they were briefly exposed to.