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FLDS members fear possibility of a second raid
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Ray | 9:52 a.m. May 22, 2008
Let's not forget the real bottom line problem, this whole thing started
because a total idiot of a judge accepted into evidence passages from a story
book written by an ex-topless dancing drug addict!!
realitycheck | 9:54 a.m. May 22, 2008
to mypc46 -
How can you possibly compare FLDS to Catholics or any other NON-EXTREMEIST religion? I was born Catholic - had Caticism, Communion, Comfirmation, was an alter boy, etc. My grandmother bought land and had a church built on it. Believe me, she was VERY religious.
But she, nor my parents, ever made me go to church after 14 yrs old - they said it was my choice. They never told me everyone else is evil. They never told me that I would be sent to damnation if I didn't follow every rule every second of every day. I didn't have to wear long sleeves all the time. I got to go to college and THEY ACTUALLY ENCOURAGED ME TO!! (what a concept) They didn't care who my sister married as long as she was happy. We were free to choose all aspects of our lives. And when I told my mom that God is not vain and wouldn't want to be worshipped, she said everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
The problem is that FLDS don't choose their religion or beliefs - they are indoctrinated into them from birth and kept there by coersion their entire lives!
How can you possibly compare FLDS to Catholics or any other NON-EXTREMEIST religion? I was born Catholic - had Caticism, Communion, Comfirmation, was an alter boy, etc. My grandmother bought land and had a church built on it. Believe me, she was VERY religious.
But she, nor my parents, ever made me go to church after 14 yrs old - they said it was my choice. They never told me everyone else is evil. They never told me that I would be sent to damnation if I didn't follow every rule every second of every day. I didn't have to wear long sleeves all the time. I got to go to college and THEY ACTUALLY ENCOURAGED ME TO!! (what a concept) They didn't care who my sister married as long as she was happy. We were free to choose all aspects of our lives. And when I told my mom that God is not vain and wouldn't want to be worshipped, she said everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
The problem is that FLDS don't choose their religion or beliefs - they are indoctrinated into them from birth and kept there by coersion their entire lives!
Comments continue below
Lili | 9:57 a.m. May 22, 2008
It seems that anytime people look to a man to worship instead of God we hear
about sex with children. Let's list a few cults off:
Children of God
Spiral of Friends Church
Nuwaubian
House of Yahwea
Hosanna Church
The Lord of our Righteousness
Why is America so horrified by the above cults but defending the FLDS when they do the same things. Just read the Bishop's list, in their own handwriting you will find three 16 yr old brides who are married to much older men, old enough to be their fathers and all of whom have other wives.
Children of God
Spiral of Friends Church
Nuwaubian
House of Yahwea
Hosanna Church
The Lord of our Righteousness
Why is America so horrified by the above cults but defending the FLDS when they do the same things. Just read the Bishop's list, in their own handwriting you will find three 16 yr old brides who are married to much older men, old enough to be their fathers and all of whom have other wives.
Free the Slaves | 10:01 a.m. May 22, 2008
Kathy Jo Nicholson, a former FLDS member, said:
"I grew up in the FLDS. I know first-hand the abuse that takes place under the ruse of religious freedom. In August of 2006, when Warren Jeffs entered the courtroom most people saw a pathetic image of a man in chains. I saw my former teacher �- the man who intimidated us and who eventually became the one to whom we were to declare unquestioning obedience as our Prophet. As I viewed Warren Jeffs in chains I couldn�t help but think about the many women and children still bound in psychological chains inside the FLDS. When I thought about his chains, I remembered theirs."
"I grew up in the FLDS. I know first-hand the abuse that takes place under the ruse of religious freedom. In August of 2006, when Warren Jeffs entered the courtroom most people saw a pathetic image of a man in chains. I saw my former teacher �- the man who intimidated us and who eventually became the one to whom we were to declare unquestioning obedience as our Prophet. As I viewed Warren Jeffs in chains I couldn�t help but think about the many women and children still bound in psychological chains inside the FLDS. When I thought about his chains, I remembered theirs."
Sharon | 10:04 a.m. May 22, 2008
To REALITYCHECK 9:01am
You know RC...I was thinking the same thing, where Big Boy Willie is concerned. Looks like the man in hiding ( MERRILL JESSOP) put Willie in charge of the compound the almighty self proclaimed prophet Warren Jeffs put him in charge of. I read Willie is not Merrill's son, but he sure looks and acts like him from my point of view. Willie will be on a talk show this evening......LOL...that should be a HOOT !
You know RC...I was thinking the same thing, where Big Boy Willie is concerned. Looks like the man in hiding ( MERRILL JESSOP) put Willie in charge of the compound the almighty self proclaimed prophet Warren Jeffs put him in charge of. I read Willie is not Merrill's son, but he sure looks and acts like him from my point of view. Willie will be on a talk show this evening......LOL...that should be a HOOT !
Free the Slaves (2) | 10:05 a.m. May 22, 2008
"The FLDS has done this and claimed it is their right to
�practice their religion.�
Wake up women of the FLDS! These are your children! And you have contributed to their abuse! I know you are frightened. I know that some of you feel righteous, but it is never right to abuse a child. Your daughters are being given to men while they are still children!," said Kathy.
Honest people who are truly concerned about the welfare of the FLDS women and children, should be focusing their disgust and anger at the FLDS leadership and men, NOT at CPS, which is trying to protect the rights of the children.
Wake up women of the FLDS! These are your children! And you have contributed to their abuse! I know you are frightened. I know that some of you feel righteous, but it is never right to abuse a child. Your daughters are being given to men while they are still children!," said Kathy.
Honest people who are truly concerned about the welfare of the FLDS women and children, should be focusing their disgust and anger at the FLDS leadership and men, NOT at CPS, which is trying to protect the rights of the children.
CPS abuse | 10:13 a.m. May 22, 2008
The world stood by as Hitler & Stalin committed such crimes against ethnic
and religious minorities. Later, we said they were wrong. If CPS can kidnap
& re-educate children and hold teenaged boys in prison as "future
potential predators", then Americans' personal rights are gone. Texas
CPS abuse is just a beginning. Who is next? You?
Silver Fox says... | 10:13 a.m. May 22, 2008
"Delusions, errors and lies are like the huge gaudy vessels, the rafters of
which are rotten and worm - eaten, and those who embark in them are fated to be
shipwrecked."
Buddha
Texas CPS, FLDS and other polygamist groups, as well as any group or individual that justifies lies, associate with MADNESS!!!
Buddha
Texas CPS, FLDS and other polygamist groups, as well as any group or individual that justifies lies, associate with MADNESS!!!
to all Hammerheads | 10:16 a.m. May 22, 2008
Anyone who condones polygamy and the abuse of woman and children are not well
people. You people are not normal. I hate to break it to you but you have a
brain defect going on. Perhaps you're a degenerate or there has been too
much inbreeding going on within your families? My conclusion is to seek some
help. Although, there is nothing that can be done for the large space between
your eyes. Once the eyes on have been genetically altered thats pretty much
it.
I hope Texas raids can figure FLDS people out???
I hope Texas raids can figure FLDS people out???
What have the FLDS done? | 10:16 a.m. May 22, 2008
"I urge the women of the FLDS to realize that their husbands and leaders
are guilty of the very things they accuse the government of Texas of doing. They
have separated children from their real mothers in Colorado City and placed them
in the Texas compound. They have lived in dormitories and many of these children
may not know where their real mothers are. I am aware of one situation where a
man took only his favored wives with him to Eldorado, but he took all of the
children. He left the remaining wives behind without access to their kids,"
said Kathy.
CPS denying FLDS women and children their rights???
The real culprit is the FLDS leaders and men.
CPS denying FLDS women and children their rights???
The real culprit is the FLDS leaders and men.
Iamsure | 10:23 a.m. May 22, 2008
It is getting close to time that we take back our government. Other have laid
down their lives for the freedom to practice their religious believes, I looks
like some will soon be asked to follow our founding fathers.
to Ray | 10:29 a.m. May 22, 2008
Actually Ray, CPS accepted evidence from the ex-topless dancing drug addict,
Flora Jessop. The book Escape, was written by Carolyn Jessop.
To: Angry in New Hampshire | 10:33 a.m. May 22, 2008
You should be angry, but your anger is misdirected.
Read the statements of Kathy Jo Nicholson, a former FLDS member, and then consider who is really denying the FLDS mothers and children their basic rights, and who is trying to preserve their rights.
Read the statements of Kathy Jo Nicholson, a former FLDS member, and then consider who is really denying the FLDS mothers and children their basic rights, and who is trying to preserve their rights.
Justthefactsmaam | 10:39 a.m. May 22, 2008
No one has broken the law at the YFZ ranch.
The 4 or 5 pregnant teens (not the 31 as previously falsely reported by the lying CPS) were common-law married with parental consent. All they had to be was 14 prior to September 1, 2005 under Texas law; 16 after September 1, 2005.
The 2007 Bishop Census shows that none of the 4 or 5 girls under 18 married would violate Texas law as per the above.
And the CPS itself continues to verify the accuracy of the 2007 Bishop Census day after day as the truth comes out slowly in the courts.
The State of Texas has testified that 0 people on the ranch were receiving welfare in any form at the time of the raid.
Polygynous co-habitation was made legal by the US Supreme Court on July 26, 2003 when SCOTUS decided that sodomy was legal in the USA in Lawrence vs Texas.
The Texas bigamy laws will be shot down by SCOTUS using Lawrence vs Texas. What consenting adults lacking state issued-marriage certificates do in the privay of their own bedroom is none of the goverment's frickin' business. Unless somehow gays have more rights than polygynists.
The 4 or 5 pregnant teens (not the 31 as previously falsely reported by the lying CPS) were common-law married with parental consent. All they had to be was 14 prior to September 1, 2005 under Texas law; 16 after September 1, 2005.
The 2007 Bishop Census shows that none of the 4 or 5 girls under 18 married would violate Texas law as per the above.
And the CPS itself continues to verify the accuracy of the 2007 Bishop Census day after day as the truth comes out slowly in the courts.
The State of Texas has testified that 0 people on the ranch were receiving welfare in any form at the time of the raid.
Polygynous co-habitation was made legal by the US Supreme Court on July 26, 2003 when SCOTUS decided that sodomy was legal in the USA in Lawrence vs Texas.
The Texas bigamy laws will be shot down by SCOTUS using Lawrence vs Texas. What consenting adults lacking state issued-marriage certificates do in the privay of their own bedroom is none of the goverment's frickin' business. Unless somehow gays have more rights than polygynists.
re: to Ray & Ray | 10:42 a.m. May 22, 2008
I think you should look at your own back ground before you hop on Flora Jessop. You seem to like to pick on the woman who have been through a lot with these FLDS groups. Go take a good look in the mirror, BUD! Don't be trashing others before you take your own trash out!
realitycheck | 10:42 a.m. May 22, 2008
Has anyone noticed how much the FLDS and an Islamic extremeists state have in
common? Think about it.
I think the FLDS religious police are upset with us.
I think the FLDS religious police are upset with us.
Re: Justthefactsmaam | 10:56 a.m. May 22, 2008
Justthefactsmaam is an unfortunate example of the people who see nothing wrong
with indoctrinating and forcing a 14-year-old girl into a marriage with a dirty
old man who already has a dozen wives and only wants her as another baby-making
machine.
These people may think they're sly at finding loopholes in the technical legalities, but they are completely devoid of morality in their disgusting practices.
These people may think they're sly at finding loopholes in the technical legalities, but they are completely devoid of morality in their disgusting practices.
To Angry | 11:16 a.m. May 22, 2008
Oh! I am sorry! I did not know you were one them. I really think you should look
a Prime Minister Chamberlain's passive efforts at appeasement. Very
instructive when it comes to dealing with dictators.
Justthefactsmaam | 11:21 a.m. May 22, 2008
I'm neither FLDS nor LDS. Where do I get my values? From the Bible. Where
do you get yours? Obviously not the Bible. To wit:
Leviticus 15:24 -
And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him,
he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall
be unclean.
Leviticus 15:33 -
And of her that is sick of her flowers, and of him that hath an
issue, of the man, and of the woman, and of him that lieth with her
that is unclean.
1st Corinthians 7:36 -
But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his
virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let
him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
1st Timothy 5:14 -
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children,
guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak
reproachfully.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
Leviticus 15:24 -
And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him,
he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall
be unclean.
Leviticus 15:33 -
And of her that is sick of her flowers, and of him that hath an
issue, of the man, and of the woman, and of him that lieth with her
that is unclean.
1st Corinthians 7:36 -
But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his
virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let
him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
1st Timothy 5:14 -
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children,
guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak
reproachfully.
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
wrz | 11:22 a.m. May 22, 2008
"Justthefactsmaam is an unfortunate example of the people who see nothing
wrong with indoctrinating and forcing a 14-year-old girl into a marriage with a
dirty old man who already has a dozen wives and only wants her as another
baby-making machine."
Perhaps their objective is as put forth in the Christian Bible, Psalms 127:3, 5 - Lo, children are a heritage of the Lord, and the fruit of the womb is his reward.... Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them, they shall not be ashamed.
Perhaps their objective is as put forth in the Christian Bible, Psalms 127:3, 5 - Lo, children are a heritage of the Lord, and the fruit of the womb is his reward.... Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them, they shall not be ashamed.
Justthefactsmaam | 11:24 a.m. May 22, 2008
ust read the Bishop's list, in their own handwriting you will find three 16
yr old brides who are married to much older men, old enough to be their fathers
and all of whom have other wives.
///At the risk of assuming that you derive your moral and spiritual values from the Bible, and the above is a problem in the Bible where?
Chapter and verse please.
///At the risk of assuming that you derive your moral and spiritual values from the Bible, and the above is a problem in the Bible where?
Chapter and verse please.
Charles | 11:32 a.m. May 22, 2008
Now CPS is playing the time came, they know over time people forget things it,s
a old came that states play when they know they did something wrongful to
someone else. Now you say wheres the beef texas CPS. They going to the ranch
this 2nd time was hoping to cause trouble so they could arrest someone and get
some newspaper coveage.
The upkeep of the FLDS Ranch is not getting done, this is also a shame,grass dieing off, etc. Lord let my people go texas. The ants you see already.
The upkeep of the FLDS Ranch is not getting done, this is also a shame,grass dieing off, etc. Lord let my people go texas. The ants you see already.
HD | 11:39 a.m. May 22, 2008
Once again, many that are posting here continue to confuse the issues. First,
polygamy is against the law, period. The type of society that the FLDS encourage
is not productive to the family. The so called "prophet" of the FLDS
is in jail for child abuse. He is their leader and encourages the same behavior
in all of the members of the FLDS. Second, don't confuse teen pregnancy
with what the FLDS are doing with underage girls being force into a marriage.
Third, most of this would have been cleared up by the FLDS is they simply would
have stood up and told the truth rather than be evassive in all answers. The
Texas CPS did not have alot of options based upon this type of behavior from the
FLDS adults. As the truth comes out and can be verified, chldren will be
released to their parents.
Fourth, no one is trying to wipe out a religious group. When people break the law I am tired of hearing the excuss of religious freedom or race. These cards are played far too often.
Fourth, no one is trying to wipe out a religious group. When people break the law I am tired of hearing the excuss of religious freedom or race. These cards are played far too often.
realitycheck | 11:46 a.m. May 22, 2008
to Justthefactsmaam -
It's unclear to me why you are quoting from a book. Don't you have your own opinion?
We get our values from knowing right from wrong and being kind to our fellow people (including and especially children). We don't need a book - we have a conciensce.
If you have to get your understanding of right and wrong from a book, well I don't even know what to say about that. Perhaps you should be more mature and form your own opinions. Or is that against your religion?
Do you really need a book to know not to kill people, steal from people, or use people? That it is better to help people than to use them? That preying on peoples weaknesses is wrong?
That denying freedoms though indoctrination and coersion is wrong? That we are all individuals and should be able to live as such? Everyone, including (and especially) children?
guess not.
It's unclear to me why you are quoting from a book. Don't you have your own opinion?
We get our values from knowing right from wrong and being kind to our fellow people (including and especially children). We don't need a book - we have a conciensce.
If you have to get your understanding of right and wrong from a book, well I don't even know what to say about that. Perhaps you should be more mature and form your own opinions. Or is that against your religion?
Do you really need a book to know not to kill people, steal from people, or use people? That it is better to help people than to use them? That preying on peoples weaknesses is wrong?
That denying freedoms though indoctrination and coersion is wrong? That we are all individuals and should be able to live as such? Everyone, including (and especially) children?
guess not.
Laws Broken | 11:47 a.m. May 22, 2008
When this shakes out there may be a few procecutions for statuatory rape. On
the bishops list there are a few 16-year-old wives. Odds are they are not
legally married to their much older husbands. Odds are they've got a kid
or two. Also some kids had suspicious broken bones. Abuse may be hard to prove
in those cases, but charges may occur. As far as specifics, we are not being
told because the CPS is still investigating. CPS can hold children while they
are still investigating. The hearings are underway now. Hopefully this answers
the question of what laws were broken.
Wool pulling | 11:50 a.m. May 22, 2008
To wishful JUSTTHEFACTSMANN thinking-
How come those scriptures really don't make too much sense? How can you or anyone apply all that malarkey to anyone living today? Folks, come out of the dark ages! The bible isn't anymore correct then the tale of a Big-Foot monster roaming and terrorizing people on this continent. Maybe we need Bigfoot scriptures?
QUIT DAYDREAMING about more than one lady in your life and get to work! The ladies really don't want a guy like you in their life anyway.
How come those scriptures really don't make too much sense? How can you or anyone apply all that malarkey to anyone living today? Folks, come out of the dark ages! The bible isn't anymore correct then the tale of a Big-Foot monster roaming and terrorizing people on this continent. Maybe we need Bigfoot scriptures?
QUIT DAYDREAMING about more than one lady in your life and get to work! The ladies really don't want a guy like you in their life anyway.
Gross | 11:53 a.m. May 22, 2008
This is totally unacceptable and the authorities should raid every FLDS
compound in country. They are the American Taliban
history repeats ! | 11:59 a.m. May 22, 2008
anyone who has studied the history of this country will be aware that religious
persecution has played a huge role in it's history. many settlers i.e.
pilgrims (puritans) quakers, catholics,anabaptists etc. came to america to
escape religious persecution.mormons in the 1840s were denied their
constitutional rights. they were falsely imprisoned, robbed, raped, and driven
from their homes. an extermination order was issued in missouri making it legal
to kill mormons. this was not revoked until the 1970s. when mormons went west in
1847 the headed to utah which was at that time part of mexico. justifing the
abuse of flds types is just like justfying the genocide in kosovo, the pogroms
and muder of millions of jews, the muder of protestants and catholics in
ireland, etc. think about it.
I don't get it | 11:59 a.m. May 22, 2008
If polygamy is illegal and states are not procecuting because some muliple wives
are not legally married to their husbands, it's high time laws were passed
to refine polygamy to include "spirital" wives or so-called
"spouses" as defined on the Bishop's list. Nothing good comes to
families in polygamous relationships. As Flora Jessop says, the jealousies of
wives are manifested through abuse of children, younger wives and barren wives
who essentially become slaves to the wives with children. Plus the system
creates children who do not know their parents, especially fathers on an
intimate level, because not only do the fathers have difficulty supporting their
numerous children, but they typically don't live with them and barely know
them. Add to that the well documented cases of Lost boys that this systems
creates. I generally believe in live and let live, provided the lifestyle
doesn't victimize people. I'm not including the monogamous families
on the ranch...just the polygymous family groups which lead to disfunction on a
mass scale. The problem is the victims themselves don't believe they are
victims because they are born into a lifestyle which is normal to them. A tough
situation.
realitycheck | 12:08 p.m. May 22, 2008
those of you that are saying that the books written by ex-FLDS memebers are
untrue and filled with lies...
How do you know your books aren't the same? at least we can ask the author. where's the author of your books? I'd like to ask them about some of the things they wrote.
If your book was written by some dude that just wanted to provide some guidance on right vs wrong (like the 10 commandments), and didn't mean for you to take the whole thing so literaly.. man are you gonna feel stupid.
And if he had ulterior motives, like wanting lots of young women even when he's old - then your gonna feel more than stupid... cuz the big guy's not gonna look well on that.
It's too bad you can't just be good people and leave it at that.
How do you know your books aren't the same? at least we can ask the author. where's the author of your books? I'd like to ask them about some of the things they wrote.
If your book was written by some dude that just wanted to provide some guidance on right vs wrong (like the 10 commandments), and didn't mean for you to take the whole thing so literaly.. man are you gonna feel stupid.
And if he had ulterior motives, like wanting lots of young women even when he's old - then your gonna feel more than stupid... cuz the big guy's not gonna look well on that.
It's too bad you can't just be good people and leave it at that.
taylor the latte boy | 12:06 p.m. May 22, 2008
reality check needs to study his catholic history. ever heard of the
inquisition? pedofile priests? forced convertion of native americans at sword
point? wake up and smell the coffee!!!!!!!!!!
wrz | 12:15 p.m. May 22, 2008
"Fourth, no one is trying to wipe out a religious group. When people break
the law I am tired of hearing the excuse of religious freedom... These cards are
played far too often."
These "cards" are in the First Amendment to the US Constitution. They are trump cards. They trump all other laws.
These "cards" are in the First Amendment to the US Constitution. They are trump cards. They trump all other laws.
Angry in New Hampshire | 12:16 p.m. May 22, 2008
History has shown clearly that tyranny and fascism starts when the majority of
the population stands by and allows persecution of a minority because the
minority holds different beliefs, different values, or even a different view of
morality. Personally, I think that many FLDS beliefs and practices (insofar as I
understand them) are morally repugnant. That being said, there is a much more
important issue here, that of preventing our government from using the FLDS
atrocities as means by which to lay aside freedom of religion, freedom of
speech, due process, prohibitions against warrantless search, and especially the
freedom of parents to train their children in ardently held religious beliefs
without intervention by the state.
Wake up! It is no exaggeration to say that we are on a cusp, and our fundamental liberties are at stake. Do not fall into picayune arguments over whether or not their beliefs are correct. Rather we must unite for the cause of liberty from governmental tyranny, and leave the religious portion (even issues of local religious tyranny) to figure itself out later.
It is likely true that their beliefs are twisted, but we have much more important things at stake here.
Wake up! It is no exaggeration to say that we are on a cusp, and our fundamental liberties are at stake. Do not fall into picayune arguments over whether or not their beliefs are correct. Rather we must unite for the cause of liberty from governmental tyranny, and leave the religious portion (even issues of local religious tyranny) to figure itself out later.
It is likely true that their beliefs are twisted, but we have much more important things at stake here.
realitycheck | 12:15 p.m. May 22, 2008
to history repeats -
Yes - this is just like the holocaust, murdering catholics, and the genocide in kosovo. Very good analogy. What planet are you from?
It's more like the allied troops throwing open the gates at Nuremberg. The religious persecution was being done by the FLDS men, forcing their extremeist practices (in the name of religion) on innocent children with no chance of forming their own opinion nor possibility of escape.
If what you think the FLDS does to innocent people is ok, then you have a lot to learn about real freedom. Ever heard of Taliban? I suggest you check it out.
Yes - this is just like the holocaust, murdering catholics, and the genocide in kosovo. Very good analogy. What planet are you from?
It's more like the allied troops throwing open the gates at Nuremberg. The religious persecution was being done by the FLDS men, forcing their extremeist practices (in the name of religion) on innocent children with no chance of forming their own opinion nor possibility of escape.
If what you think the FLDS does to innocent people is ok, then you have a lot to learn about real freedom. Ever heard of Taliban? I suggest you check it out.
realitycheck | 12:25 p.m. May 22, 2008
to taylor the latte boy -
what's your point? What did I say that could possibly make you think I would approve of those actions? You are merely confirming my point - when the beliefs of a few are forced on to the lives of many - bad things happen.
The catholics back then were a lot like the FLDS now - pretty much crazy religious zealots that wanted everyone under their control to be just like them. When will FLDS join the 21st century (or 20th century for that matter) and let people form their own opinions without being brainwashed?
Oh - wait - they might not have as many (if any) members then. Guess that would be a bad thing?
what's your point? What did I say that could possibly make you think I would approve of those actions? You are merely confirming my point - when the beliefs of a few are forced on to the lives of many - bad things happen.
The catholics back then were a lot like the FLDS now - pretty much crazy religious zealots that wanted everyone under their control to be just like them. When will FLDS join the 21st century (or 20th century for that matter) and let people form their own opinions without being brainwashed?
Oh - wait - they might not have as many (if any) members then. Guess that would be a bad thing?
realitycheck | 12:31 p.m. May 22, 2008
to Angry in New Hampshire:
I'm not sure anyone cares about the FLDS beliefs if they would just apply them to consenting adults. But they hide from the world and indoctrinate and coerce little kids into something that steals the child's right to a free life.
That's where I draw the line.
I'm not sure anyone cares about the FLDS beliefs if they would just apply them to consenting adults. But they hide from the world and indoctrinate and coerce little kids into something that steals the child's right to a free life.
That's where I draw the line.
IL gal | 12:43 p.m. May 22, 2008
I say way to go Texas. Let's stop this abuse now. This way of life needs
to stop NOW.
I'm tired of my taxes going to pay for these people to live off welfare. Make them obey all the laws of the land.
I'm tired of my taxes going to pay for these people to live off welfare. Make them obey all the laws of the land.
Re: Angry in New Hampshire | 12:48 p.m. May 22, 2008
So do you really believe that institutionalized child rape is simply a trivial
argument?
Would you give your 14-year-old daughter to Warren Jeffs to decide when and to whom she should be married, after indoctrinating her since she was born to believe that she had no choice whatsoever in one of the most important decisions of her life?
Would you really sacrifice your daughter for the greater good of society?
Isn't the one who is lost just as important as the ninety and nine?
Would you give your 14-year-old daughter to Warren Jeffs to decide when and to whom she should be married, after indoctrinating her since she was born to believe that she had no choice whatsoever in one of the most important decisions of her life?
Would you really sacrifice your daughter for the greater good of society?
Isn't the one who is lost just as important as the ninety and nine?
Freedom from Religion | 12:49 p.m. May 22, 2008
I'm for passing laws that limit religious teachings to those over 18 years
of age. Children do not have religious beliefs, they are indoctrinated by their
parents and communities. Once they are adults they can choose their own
beliefs. Or, more likely, will not choose any religion once they've
developed the ability to think for themselves and see the ridiculous and
conflicting themes of scripture. Thank goodness for secular laws of common
decency. "Lord" help us if we still abided by the morals of the old
testiment.
to RealityCheck (from Angry) | 12:50 p.m. May 22, 2008
I can see your point regarding children versus consenting adults.
That there may be children coerced into lifestyles they would not choose for themselves is tragic, to be sure.
It is just that I fear our government far more than I fear a minor cult. I believe that it is possible to handle this cult without abrogating the U.S. Constitution and personal liberties. I an extremely upset that the confusion caused by atrocities (real or otherwise) within this cult has been used as a smokescreen to allow the government to redefine religious and civil liberties an extremely narrow and frightening way.
We can handle the FLDS later, if need be, and find a way of saving the several hundred children that may or may not be oppressed, but in the meantime we are standing by allowing what is, very literally, an act of genocide as defined by the UN resolution. Personally, I find this much more frightening than anything that may or may not be going on inside this cult.
That there may be children coerced into lifestyles they would not choose for themselves is tragic, to be sure.
It is just that I fear our government far more than I fear a minor cult. I believe that it is possible to handle this cult without abrogating the U.S. Constitution and personal liberties. I an extremely upset that the confusion caused by atrocities (real or otherwise) within this cult has been used as a smokescreen to allow the government to redefine religious and civil liberties an extremely narrow and frightening way.
We can handle the FLDS later, if need be, and find a way of saving the several hundred children that may or may not be oppressed, but in the meantime we are standing by allowing what is, very literally, an act of genocide as defined by the UN resolution. Personally, I find this much more frightening than anything that may or may not be going on inside this cult.
Gal50 | 1:05 p.m. May 22, 2008
Not anymore. If CPS pursues this, it will be the downfall of CPS and Texas. The
nation will be screaming after the appeals court findings.
Perhaps, the FLDS can work with CPS in order to ensure that nothing else happens. Keep duplicate logs of people who are visiting. Get birth certificates for each child. If Jeffs insists on marrying off underage girls, make sure it happens in another state.
Perhaps, the FLDS can work with CPS in order to ensure that nothing else happens. Keep duplicate logs of people who are visiting. Get birth certificates for each child. If Jeffs insists on marrying off underage girls, make sure it happens in another state.
Funny | 1:08 p.m. May 22, 2008
Funny how the anti-CPS posters equate the YFZ folks with regular people by
saying if this happened to them, who's next, you?
Excuse me, but the CPS goes after alleged abusers..it was MORE than just a phone call that triggered the raids, it was four years of research into this organization that let to this. Quit implying that CPS is going to "go after" any random family, you're deluding yourself.
Excuse me, but the CPS goes after alleged abusers..it was MORE than just a phone call that triggered the raids, it was four years of research into this organization that let to this. Quit implying that CPS is going to "go after" any random family, you're deluding yourself.
bubba dukes | 1:26 p.m. May 22, 2008
hey maybe texas authoities can explain why 12 year old strippers in dallas
clubs frequented by cops is ok, while 16 yr old girls marrying an 24 yr old flds
is wrong? or if a 15 yr old girl marries a 32 yr old baptist its OK.
taylor the latte boy | 1:35 p.m. May 22, 2008
Read the news. texas appeals court rules cps wrong. give the children back.
Anonymous | 1:47 p.m. May 22, 2008
The only girl I knew growing up that got married at 14 (late 70s in Utah) was a
girl from my English class. Her husband was early 20s (an arranged marriage) and
she was not pregnant. She was not Fundamentalist Mormon, but Catholic from an
old school Italian family.
She was scared as she had never met him, but she followed her parent's wishes because they loved her and were looking out for her welfare. I don't understand this myself, except that I believe they did love her and were looking out for her interest, but they have a different world view than I have.
She was scared as she had never met him, but she followed her parent's wishes because they loved her and were looking out for her welfare. I don't understand this myself, except that I believe they did love her and were looking out for her interest, but they have a different world view than I have.
Justthefactsmaam | 1:58 p.m. May 22, 2008
to Justthefactsmaam -
It's unclear to me why you are quoting from a book. Don't you have your own opinion?
///No, I make a concerted effort to NEVER have my own opinion as far as moral and spiritual choices are concerned. The Bible governs me completely and totally.
I intend to be viewed by the Lord as a SHEEP and not a GOAT on the day of Judgement.
What's your plan?
It's unclear to me why you are quoting from a book. Don't you have your own opinion?
///No, I make a concerted effort to NEVER have my own opinion as far as moral and spiritual choices are concerned. The Bible governs me completely and totally.
I intend to be viewed by the Lord as a SHEEP and not a GOAT on the day of Judgement.
What's your plan?
realitycheck | 2:08 p.m. May 22, 2008
to Angry -
And I guess that's my problem. I believe the children are the most important, as they cannot stick up for themselves.
I would trample the rights of 1000 adults to save one child. my bad.
And I guess that's my problem. I believe the children are the most important, as they cannot stick up for themselves.
I would trample the rights of 1000 adults to save one child. my bad.
To Justthefactsmaam | 2:27 p.m. May 22, 2008
The enlightenment has obviously passed you by. It may be too late for you and
your ilk, but to base your life on a book of superstitions written from the Iron
Age perspective does not apply to how we treat each other today. You are
clearly uneducated and ignorant and hopefully you did not reproduce any more
dangerous thinkers like yourself. I wouldn't doubt if you were a sex
offender based on your obsession with young girls.
to-Justthefactsmaam | 2:42 p.m. May 22, 2008
The bible is nothing hot air and lousy poetry! You are funny person. It's
outdated BS.
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We must be extremely cautious when navigating a situation like this. Texas has not been. They have gone out of their way to trample fundamental constitutional rights but feel they are justified because children are involved AND, implicitly, they don't agree with the ideas of the FLDS.
We have a moral obligation to protect children from child abuse, but we have an equal, possibly greater, obligation to protect everyone's constitutional rights in the process. This situation highlights the degenerate state of our political system.