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Deputies defend fatal car chase
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Anonymous | 7:30 a.m. May 20, 2008
What concerns me is the strangle hold on society which the police so strongly
protect. Not the welfare of innocent civilians, instead defending their actions
as they cause the death of a man who was supposed to be innocent until proven
guilty. How else would a authoritarian defend these actions, other than to
attempt to cast additional blame pretending the individual was involved in much
more serious crime...blanket ancusations designed to create public feeling
against the deseased. Sounds like our police force is upholding "To
protect and serve".
Huh? | 8:08 a.m. May 20, 2008
Anon - please explain to me how the police caused the death of a "supposed
to be innocent" man who intentionally ran head-on into a semi-truck. None
of this would have happened if the guy would have obeyed the law and pulled
over. He lost his innocence the moment he decided to run from the police.
Comments continue below
Step up | 8:16 a.m. May 20, 2008
This is a no-brainer for anyone with a brain. The guy sped off, the guy did the
high speeds, the guy did the endangering of public lives, the guy was the one
who caused his own demise. The police just caught him at it, as is their job.
Blaming the police because the guy was fleeing takes real effort to twist
reality to unreality. He was presumed innocent, it was his own actions that
caused final judgement to be meted out. The police didn't tell him to run,
they didn't cause him to endanger the public. He was doing that himself.
They were doing their jobs to catch him and bring him before the court where he
would be presumed innocent. When the guy doesn't give the system a chance
to work, it's his own fault, not the police. Anonymous sounds like he has
an agenda againt the police. Take it to a counselor and get some help for your
illness.......
Agree with Step Up | 8:55 a.m. May 20, 2008
I agree that the police have to chase him in that case. Otherwise, we do send a
message to criminals that if they run, no one will chase them. It was the
criminal's choice to run and endanger those lives. Also, the innocent until
proven guilty argument is pretty lame. The perpetrator can use that defense if
he's obeying the law, but in this case, are police to assume that he's
just innocent and stop pursuing him? That would be ridiculous. Their whole
purpose is to bring him in so that the judicial system can determine if
he's innocent or guilty. The job of the police force is to bring in
suspected criminals so they can be tried.
Anonymous | 9:07 a.m. May 20, 2008
so what do you non supportive people of the police want them to do? Let them
break the law and get away with it/ I say the police used their judgment and did
what they needed too. unless you have walked amile in thier shoes maybe you
shouldn't be so quick to put blame on officers who are out their to
protect.
REPLY TO HUH @Agree | 9:15 a.m. May 20, 2008
Wow, everyone acts the same,is that right? Do you really think a disturbed mind
(mentally ill) works the same as your mind? I want to see the bad guys caught
but not at the price of your or some other families death. How do the police
know if they are after someone with your kind of mind or a mentally disturbed
mind? Honestly, the police need more training in this area.
Again... | 9:38 a.m. May 20, 2008
this is one of them double edge sword issues. We scream at our Law Enforcement
Officers for doing their duties and then again we scream at them again when we
think they are not doing enough...
What a screwy society...
What a screwy society...
Robert | 9:39 a.m. May 20, 2008
The police chased a contractor who was in a contractual dispute with a property
owner. He had not robbed a bank. He only became a "criminal" when he
failed to stop for police. Evidence will show the man was mentally disturbed.
The high speed chase endangered innocent people on an interstate highway full of
weekend traffic.
Calling off a high speed pursuit in those circumstances would not send a message to criminals that they can evade police by outrunning them. Police knew who the man was, they knew his license plate number. They could have arrested him at his home later that day, or the next day, or the next week, in circumstances that would not have endangered innocent people on a busy highway.
Calling off a high speed pursuit in those circumstances would not send a message to criminals that they can evade police by outrunning them. Police knew who the man was, they knew his license plate number. They could have arrested him at his home later that day, or the next day, or the next week, in circumstances that would not have endangered innocent people on a busy highway.
re: To Pursue.. | 9:49 a.m. May 20, 2008
I do agree that the punishment for evading needs to be increased. Right now,
criminals who flee have the fleeing charge either tossed out in a plea bargain
or receive a minor sentence that is run concurrently with their other charges.
In effect, there is no repercussions for running. Our judges need to start
punishing this extremely dangerous crime severly as a deterrent to others. If
our judges continue to fail us, then our legislators need create a mandatory
minimum for the crime.
The rest of your statement just shows ignorance of the reality of the problem. A criminal who recklessly uses a weapon (which includes a car in my opionion) to endanger bystanders is responsible for his own actions, not the cops who show up to arrest him. What is the difference between a gun and a car? If he had been shooting a gun down the road when the cop tried to stop would you blame the cops for someone being hit? After all, if the cops just left he wouldn't have had a reason to keep shooting and no one would have been injured.
The rest of your statement just shows ignorance of the reality of the problem. A criminal who recklessly uses a weapon (which includes a car in my opionion) to endanger bystanders is responsible for his own actions, not the cops who show up to arrest him. What is the difference between a gun and a car? If he had been shooting a gun down the road when the cop tried to stop would you blame the cops for someone being hit? After all, if the cops just left he wouldn't have had a reason to keep shooting and no one would have been injured.
GetEducated | 10:35 a.m. May 20, 2008
No high speed chase was necessary, the car was identified and some road blocks
coupled with spikes would have ended this without greater danger to the public.
Of course that does not fall within the "fun" things to do. Until
officers actually start treating regular law abiding citizens with respect, we
will continue to question their tactics.
Black&White | 10:47 a.m. May 20, 2008
As long as idiots think they can run away from the consequences of their actions
they will run.
Criminals are criminals because they are stupid enough to think they can get away with violating the rights and safety of others.
If they are not pursued when they run, then anyone that feels they can go fast enough and drive reckless enough to have a chase called off will do it.
This will promote more high speed /reckless attempts at escape.
If you fail to obey a law enforcement officer, you are no longer innocent of a crime.
If you attempt to shoot a law enforcement officer, you should be shot and killed.
If you attempt to kill innocent people, you should be shot and killed.
If you run from a law enforcement officer and endanger innocent lives, you should be shot and killed.
You have to admit it would make you think twice before running just because you don�t want to face the consequences of whatever you did.
Criminals are criminals because they are stupid enough to think they can get away with violating the rights and safety of others.
If they are not pursued when they run, then anyone that feels they can go fast enough and drive reckless enough to have a chase called off will do it.
This will promote more high speed /reckless attempts at escape.
If you fail to obey a law enforcement officer, you are no longer innocent of a crime.
If you attempt to shoot a law enforcement officer, you should be shot and killed.
If you attempt to kill innocent people, you should be shot and killed.
If you run from a law enforcement officer and endanger innocent lives, you should be shot and killed.
You have to admit it would make you think twice before running just because you don�t want to face the consequences of whatever you did.
agree with GetEducated | 11:29 a.m. May 20, 2008
Officers are supposed to be servants of society as well as the individual.
Unfortunately most officers abuse their authority and show no respect for the
common citizen, it is how the system trains them to act and no fault of their
own spend most of their time writing tickets to generate funds
L. G. KIRKPATRICK | 12:28 p.m. May 20, 2008
You ''bleeding heart liberals'' on here make me sick. The
deputies tried spike sticks, the driver tried to dodge the sticks, and spun out
of control. As far as terminating the chase, and apprehending the driver later
today, or tomorrow, or next week -- why give the dude the opportunity to get
home, barricade himself in, and have an armory of rifles and pistols lined up
and aimed at the door when the police agencies arrive? Give the police agencies
some slack, they never know when some idiot will pull a gun and take out the
officer PLUS a lot of innocent bystanders. Have we had any comments from any of
the other drivers on the road at the time? What are their opinions of this
little joy ride the driver decided the initiate? GO, COPS!
2 "To pursue or not to pursue?" | 12:39 p.m. May 20, 2008
I wish you would refrain from claiming to speak for everyone. I'm
non-police and I support law enforcement using reasonable force to catch
suspects(including persuing those who run).
I totally don't agree with you, so don't claim to speak for all non-police.
As for your "Chasing someone in traffic is like shooting at someone standing in a crowd" analogy. What police officer do you know that would shoot at someone standing in a crowd?
I think those who decide to run from police need to know that the chances this will make their problem go away are very slim. I don't know how you think "reiging in our police", or a "No Chase" policy, will make you safer (as if the police are the ones you should fear).
You're on the fringe. Don't claim to speak for everyone.
I totally don't agree with you, so don't claim to speak for all non-police.
As for your "Chasing someone in traffic is like shooting at someone standing in a crowd" analogy. What police officer do you know that would shoot at someone standing in a crowd?
I think those who decide to run from police need to know that the chances this will make their problem go away are very slim. I don't know how you think "reiging in our police", or a "No Chase" policy, will make you safer (as if the police are the ones you should fear).
You're on the fringe. Don't claim to speak for everyone.
JJ | 12:53 p.m. May 20, 2008
My gripe with the police is that at 11:00 PM, they had cones up to merge the 3
lanes into just one lane without any signs to warn me 1st. Also, they only used
about 100 feet to move us over so it was pretty immediate. They had a couple of
accident management trucks with the lights telling us to stay right, but that
was further down the road after we were already into just one lane.
I was in the far left lane and had to brake very hard to get in behind some semi's.
I was in the far left lane and had to brake very hard to get in behind some semi's.
set in their ways | 1:16 p.m. May 20, 2008
SOME OF THE COMMENTS READ AS BROWNSHIRT PROPAGANDA AKA "the nazi
party" duh yu thunk L.G.,and I,m not a liberal just joe citizen.
not worth the risk | 1:59 p.m. May 20, 2008
As I headed west from PC on Sunday afternoon with my small children asleep in
the backseat, I had no idea what awaited us seconds ahead. Upon cresting Parleys
Summit there was a scene of total chaos...multiple police cars driving in the
median, kicking up enormous amounts of dust with traffic everywhere trying to
get out of the way. Seconds later a cloud of pure white smoke erupted ahead and
in an instant we came upon the tanker truck, which appeared to be jacknifed, and
a demolished subaru, very much on fire. I was there and I can tell you it is
amazing that bystanders weren't killed or injured...and I later learn that
the chase had been ongoing for 30 minutes??? why not just close the canyon???
Joe | 2:39 p.m. May 20, 2008
What some people here don't realize is the primitive ways the police use,
no other developed country in the world uses high speed chases to stop
violators. Its not just the perp but its also the police who are danger to the
innocent, how would you like to get hit by a police cruiser going 100mph just
because he was chasing a perp. High speed chases are dangerous not because of
the perp but also because of the police. Plus how does it usually end- with a
crash, even when using spikes i'm sure having all your tires blown out
going 70+ is not going to end peacefully. The police initiated pursuit they
could have followed him undercover and arrested him on an interesection or used
some kind of peace of technology to kill the ecu on his car. The perp could have
hit a small family car instead of a semi. The police is just as dangerous during
a high speed pursuit to the innocent bystanders. Plus what if the perp was some
stupid young kid in his dad's sports car, he doesn't deserve to die.
Police need a new system when a person doesn't yeild to police.
adam | 3:04 p.m. May 20, 2008
also i think what many people here fail to take into consideration is that the
police have to make a split second decision. It is a lot easier to sit here an
play tuesday morning quarterback.
"possibly even suicidal"? | 3:06 p.m. May 20, 2008
What was your first hint, when had a head-on with a cop car or when he slammed
into a fuel tanker?
This is a case where the pursuit was clearly justified. He was trying to find a place to die.
This is a case where the pursuit was clearly justified. He was trying to find a place to die.
ego | 3:31 p.m. May 20, 2008
The last thing we need is more laws.
Other means | 3:33 p.m. May 20, 2008
I really like the shooting into a crowd analogy because that is exactly what it
is when speeds climb to 100+mph. The argument that it is now a felony so
we'll pursue is just plain short sighted. You wouldn't shoot at a
fleeing felon in a crowd, so why chase him at fatal speeds through traffic.
The guy might have committed fraud and the sheriff "speculates" that because he fled he "probably" did something worse. Dumb!!! If the guy had killed someone then a chase is justified - he's already a threat to innocent lives.
Fortunately in this case the idiot who fled was the only person who died, but if the victim of the wreck had been your spouse or child would you still be saying that the chase was justified? If you're honest you'd have to agree that it wasn't.
The guy might have committed fraud and the sheriff "speculates" that because he fled he "probably" did something worse. Dumb!!! If the guy had killed someone then a chase is justified - he's already a threat to innocent lives.
Fortunately in this case the idiot who fled was the only person who died, but if the victim of the wreck had been your spouse or child would you still be saying that the chase was justified? If you're honest you'd have to agree that it wasn't.
ego | 4:18 p.m. May 20, 2008
The last thing we need is more laws. Let the cops do there jobs. It would be
nice to see less speed cop and more cops stoping crime in our neighborhood.
Andy | 4:27 p.m. May 20, 2008
I am sure glad that people like "Joe" are not running our cities and
counties.
I would like to ask each of you who are saying to arrest this person later at his home. How many people who know that they have broken the law, would just be sitting at home peacefully waiting for the police? NONE! I think for those who are upset at the police need to go and spend a day with a police officer on duty and participate in a ride along to really se what the "REAL WORLD" is like. Then maybe you will get out of your bed of roses and see what really is happening out their. The police dont have the options that some would like them to have. If they tried it your way, many more police officers would be dead!
I would like to ask each of you who are saying to arrest this person later at his home. How many people who know that they have broken the law, would just be sitting at home peacefully waiting for the police? NONE! I think for those who are upset at the police need to go and spend a day with a police officer on duty and participate in a ride along to really se what the "REAL WORLD" is like. Then maybe you will get out of your bed of roses and see what really is happening out their. The police dont have the options that some would like them to have. If they tried it your way, many more police officers would be dead!
huh | 4:56 p.m. May 20, 2008
ROBERT, your comment is way off base! You say that calling off the chase,
wouldn't send a criminal a message, cause they could just get the plate and
get him the next day? Sorry but not all owner's are the people in the
vehicle. Stolen cars duh!! Switched plates!! The whole is thing is mute if the
suspect would have obeyed the law period. Thats right we can just get criminals
the next day or whenever knee jerks have reactions.
It's a Rush | 5:17 p.m. May 20, 2008
Most cops in high speed chases are probably under 35 years of age. It's a
rush to play cops and robbers when you are young. Most veterans(Over 35) know
better. Just blame the death of the ANY innocent victim on youth or THE RUSH.
Too "JJ | 12:53 p.m" | 8:51 a.m. May 21, 2008
JJ,
Do you really think the police are the ones who put out the cones and the IMTs that inconvenienced you? That would be UDOT.
Do you really think the police are the ones who put out the cones and the IMTs that inconvenienced you? That would be UDOT.
Quote Sheriff Dave Edmunds | 10:59 a.m. May 21, 2008
The Quote from Sheriff Dave Edmunds
"Summit County Sheriff Dave Edmunds noted, however, this was more than just pursuing a simple fraud suspect. Once the man refused to pull over, the situation was elevated to a felony crime."
Using this convoluted logic, a pursuit or chase should never be called off because any evasion becomes a felony. Our best and brightest??
"Summit County Sheriff Dave Edmunds noted, however, this was more than just pursuing a simple fraud suspect. Once the man refused to pull over, the situation was elevated to a felony crime."
Using this convoluted logic, a pursuit or chase should never be called off because any evasion becomes a felony. Our best and brightest??
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Because of the elevated danger when someone flees from police using a car, the crime should hold a penalty of no less than fifteen years.