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Warren Jeffs' influence evident in FLDS hearings
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CUSTODY | 1:14 a.m. May 20, 2008
THIS FLDS CUSTODY CASE IS BASED ON:
(:) [POLYGAMY "SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENT"] AS A FALLACY," AND
(:) [RELIGIOUS FREEDOM "SLIPPERY-SLOPE"] ARGUMENT AS FALLACY.
FIND THE DEFINITION OF (48) OR MORE TYPES OF FALLACIES. (WITH OR WITHOUT A PRIORI PROBABILITY)
SIGNED: RECKIPS
(:) [POLYGAMY "SLIPPERY-SLOPE ARGUMENT"] AS A FALLACY," AND
(:) [RELIGIOUS FREEDOM "SLIPPERY-SLOPE"] ARGUMENT AS FALLACY.
FIND THE DEFINITION OF (48) OR MORE TYPES OF FALLACIES. (WITH OR WITHOUT A PRIORI PROBABILITY)
SIGNED: RECKIPS
Kafka's country | 4:27 a.m. May 20, 2008
Split them up, cast their children to the winds. Force the parents to drive
hundreds of miles to see them, force them to get a job they cannot keep if they
visit them, but if they don�t visit them, they cannot get
them back. If they lose their job, they cannot them back. Hold the parents to
unstated and �evolving� requirements;
force them into poverty. Take away their bibles, arrest their prophet. No cost
is too great, no legal action too farcical. No constitution or common decency
can stop Texas justice.
Comments continue below
Joel | 5:24 a.m. May 20, 2008
The day these parents permanently lose their kids, having done nothing wrong
personally other than reside at the YFZ ranch, if that day comes, will be a dark
day for this country.
just thinking II | 5:47 a.m. May 20, 2008
the plan of the cps is starting to unravel. you can see the attitude of the cps
from the answers given in court. when service plans are vague then they are
impossible to be complied with. i agree with the post above the LDS church needs
to get involved in this. they help everybody and their dog when problems come
up. but these poor people are left to the mad dogs of texas. having to travel
all over the state of texas to see their kids is also a burden that makes it
impossible to comblie. taking of the BofM from the boys because it has a picture
of warren jeffs is a bad sign. take the picture, leave the book.
To Seattle LDS MOM | 6:10 a.m. May 20, 2008
The marriage of 14 year old was not common, unless you are considering cave
people from thousands of years ago. You might want to look up the ages of
Joseph Smith, Emma Hale, Brigham Young and others at marriage to clear that
misinformation. I have been doing genealogy for some time now and the records I
have looked at from over 150 years ago have yet to show ANY 14 or even 15 year
olds as married.
The issue has nothing to do with Romney. The only reason the LDS church and other churches should be involved is because the Book of Mormon was removed from children. Had it been a Koran, Bible, or even Watchtower there would have been a national uproar.
Agnostic mother of 3
The issue has nothing to do with Romney. The only reason the LDS church and other churches should be involved is because the Book of Mormon was removed from children. Had it been a Koran, Bible, or even Watchtower there would have been a national uproar.
Agnostic mother of 3
Apples to Oranges | 6:33 a.m. May 20, 2008
As far as LDS doctrine is concerned, the FLDS are apostates. Period. The LDS
Church isn't and shouldn't be responsible for what they do after they
leave the church. Most of these people have never seen the inside of an LDS
chapel.
It's the duty of everyone to stand up for the oppressed. What kind of political motive does the Catholic or Baptist churches have for not helping their fellow Christians? Come on!
These people are as LDS as Lutherans are Catholics.
It's the duty of everyone to stand up for the oppressed. What kind of political motive does the Catholic or Baptist churches have for not helping their fellow Christians? Come on!
These people are as LDS as Lutherans are Catholics.
ediddy | 6:41 a.m. May 20, 2008
Dear Seattle LDS Mom,
With due respect for your personal opinion, you are more than a little shortsighted. First, you presume that the LDS are doing nothing to help. On a local level, I am certain that there are more than a few offers to assist where possible. On an administrative level, the church's position is clear. We sustain the law of the land. Polygamy is illegal. If, at some point that changes, the LDS position will follow apprepriately. Why do you seek to direct the affairs of the church in general which are the stewardship of the First Presidency?
With due respect for your personal opinion, you are more than a little shortsighted. First, you presume that the LDS are doing nothing to help. On a local level, I am certain that there are more than a few offers to assist where possible. On an administrative level, the church's position is clear. We sustain the law of the land. Polygamy is illegal. If, at some point that changes, the LDS position will follow apprepriately. Why do you seek to direct the affairs of the church in general which are the stewardship of the First Presidency?
What I want to know is... | 6:57 a.m. May 20, 2008
where are the so called wonderful fathers of these children?
Most of the mothers have been thrown into the light of day, but most of the fathers are no where to be found... (except Warren Jeffs, and we all know where he is, and a few other fathers we've seen or heard from).
What kind of a family unit is that... MOM is the one in court, being on public display, and being told what 'she' must do to get 'her' children back....Not what THEY must do to get THEIR children back...
This should tell us something about the situation there on the ranch.
WHERE ARE THE 'FATHERS'?
further more... there are those who won't even admit which children are theres.
How these people claim to be law abiding citizens is beyond me.
Most of the mothers have been thrown into the light of day, but most of the fathers are no where to be found... (except Warren Jeffs, and we all know where he is, and a few other fathers we've seen or heard from).
What kind of a family unit is that... MOM is the one in court, being on public display, and being told what 'she' must do to get 'her' children back....Not what THEY must do to get THEIR children back...
This should tell us something about the situation there on the ranch.
WHERE ARE THE 'FATHERS'?
further more... there are those who won't even admit which children are theres.
How these people claim to be law abiding citizens is beyond me.
Berklee | 7:00 a.m. May 20, 2008
Where is the support for the FLDS? Texas CPS is far beyond their jurisdiction.
This story must touch a tender note with all mothers. Give the children back and
do it quickly.
Had it with CPS | 7:07 a.m. May 20, 2008
The greatest good that may come from this debacle is that the public may have
their eyes opened to the abuse that goes on stemming from the power
"we" have given to CPS. This is not just a Texas problem, though I
feel like it makes the problems in Utah seem small by comparison. In the name
of protection, CPS is allowed carte blanche for doing damage to people and
causing mental stress at least as great as any they are trying to repair. The
"innocent" are assumed to heal after they finally pay enough money in
attorney fees and suffer emotional trauma, and they catch a few abusers along
the way, actually saving some children, so they are forgiven for the wrongs they
do. There is nobody protecting good parents accused of neglect or worse by
"well-meaning neighbors".
People feel it is their duty to report everything they see as different from their own view of parenting and then the parents are guilty until they can prove their innocence (assuming they have the money, language and emotional stamina for it). The well-meaning reporters ignorantly assume that "professionals" will investigate fairly. Unfortunately this is not always the case.
People feel it is their duty to report everything they see as different from their own view of parenting and then the parents are guilty until they can prove their innocence (assuming they have the money, language and emotional stamina for it). The well-meaning reporters ignorantly assume that "professionals" will investigate fairly. Unfortunately this is not always the case.
Eric | 7:13 a.m. May 20, 2008
Removal of the Quran from a terrorist gets a Presidential apology. Removal of
the Book of Mormon get you Nothing.
LDS wake up!!! your next.
LDS wake up!!! your next.
Where is Merrill? | 7:24 a.m. May 20, 2008
Where is the leader of the YFZ Ranch, Merrill Jessop, hiding? Along with most of
the other fathers of these 450+ kids.
As always, they've left their women to do all of the work in taking care of the kids, while the men are off playing (hiding)?
As always, they've left their women to do all of the work in taking care of the kids, while the men are off playing (hiding)?
Ed Whalen | 7:25 a.m. May 20, 2008
Go texas. Somewhere before these young girls thought it would be acceptable to
become the sex slaves of muc older relatives, a lot more than simply residing at
the ranch had to have gone wrong.
A lot more went wrong after that. These people have had their own individuality denied them, and they don't yet even know it.
A lot more went wrong after that. These people have had their own individuality denied them, and they don't yet even know it.
Slobenheimer | 7:47 a.m. May 20, 2008
There is a lot of wonderful news here. The state of Texas is going to make sure
that the parents have proper parenting classes and vocational skills and provide
safe environments to take care of their children properly before allowing them
to be back with their parents. My guess is there are tens of thousands of
children accross the state who could really benefit from this type of program.
Wouldn't it be great if the state could just go neighborhood by
neighborhood and help all of the unfortunate children being brought up in poor
envronments with uncaring parents? I can't wait to see who will be next to
receive such benevolence. Go Texas!!
re:what I want to know | 7:49 a.m. May 20, 2008
To prove parentage, one only needs a mother. In our current society, many
children only have a mother. Why should FLDS be held to a different standard,
even if it wets your appetite for gossip. Since no crimes have been committed
or even alleged, why should the men, any of them be forced a DNA test? My
attorney husband suggests that not submitting is just VERY GOOD counsel.
Hey Sloverheimer | 7:51 a.m. May 20, 2008
My 16 year old son has a birth defect. I have been begging the school for
specialized training so that he can be a productive member of society, but they
think he is too bright based on his I.Q. score though he functions 40 points
below the test. Perhaps if I converted to the FLDS my son would actually get
the training he needs.
Web Surfing Dads | 8:00 a.m. May 20, 2008
From the repeated spamming of Joel=Berklee=Eric, it appears that at least one
FLDS father is holed up with his computer surfing the web, rather than being
with his wives in the court hearings.
Just give the kids back, with no questions asked, no conditions met, just give the kids back so I can continue to abuse them without Texas or anybody else interferring.
Just give the kids back, with no questions asked, no conditions met, just give the kids back so I can continue to abuse them without Texas or anybody else interferring.
Help | 8:09 a.m. May 20, 2008
I thought out of five judges that at least one would have the guts and
compassion to return the children to the parents.
What a bunch idiots that set on the bench hearing the cases.
These people are treat like cattle their rights have been taken from them.
Please RETURN THE CHILDREN TO THEIR PARENTS
What a bunch idiots that set on the bench hearing the cases.
These people are treat like cattle their rights have been taken from them.
Please RETURN THE CHILDREN TO THEIR PARENTS
Scenario | 8:16 a.m. May 20, 2008
California Supreme Court rules that freedom to choose marriage partners is
guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment. Their ruling is appealed to the U.S.
Supreme Court and following their Lawrence ruling it supports California and
polygamy ultimately becomes a Constitutional right--which it was in the first
place (for over one hundred years before Reynolds).
Finally in this country burning witches is abolished, slavery is abolished, people can choose to associate with whom they wish and religious freedom really is a Constitutional right.
Or, we can continue the police state mentality that Texas has embraced in the name of Baptist imperialism--I'm sure orthodox Mormons wonder if they will ever get to sit at the front of the bus with Rosa Parks?
Finally in this country burning witches is abolished, slavery is abolished, people can choose to associate with whom they wish and religious freedom really is a Constitutional right.
Or, we can continue the police state mentality that Texas has embraced in the name of Baptist imperialism--I'm sure orthodox Mormons wonder if they will ever get to sit at the front of the bus with Rosa Parks?
I agree | 8:16 a.m. May 20, 2008
I agree with the earlier post--WHERE IS THE MIGHTY AND OH SO WISE MERRILL
JESSOP?? Why would he choose to be a coward and hide? Why would he neither
claim nor fight for his children? Regardless of whether you believe that CPS
should return the children to their mothers immediately or not--can anyone with
half a brain actually think that God is leading this awful excuse for a father??
His only interest is in saving his own hide, while his wives and many children
fend for themselves. Pathetic.
Re: re:what I want to know | 8:24 a.m. May 20, 2008
If the father is a child abuser, CPS and the courts have an obligation to
determine who the father of each child is to ensure that no child is returned to
a home where an abuser is present.
Tell your attorney husband that protecting the children from abuse is paremount to worrying about whether a father will incriminate himself by being identified as the father of a child.
More and more, the FDLS, in the guise of neutral observers, are showing their true nature.
Tell your attorney husband that protecting the children from abuse is paremount to worrying about whether a father will incriminate himself by being identified as the father of a child.
More and more, the FDLS, in the guise of neutral observers, are showing their true nature.
Hey Ed | 8:29 a.m. May 20, 2008
Perhaps you can actually focus on the issues at hand, rather than making them up
as you go along. The only "sex slaves" that I see in the news are
related to non-flds men. CPS has not suggested any crimes even closely
approximating what you suggest. If you understood LDS history you would know
that LDS were persecuted not for polygamy but because LDS were self-sustaining
and those in MO. were expecting to make the big bucks off the mass of new
people. When that didn't happen, the MO. people got mad, even hateful.
The FLDS went to TX, then also instead of using local contractors, used
themselves as labor. They also didn't purchase locally but purchased an
hours drive away. Despite the claim of abuse, we are looking into their
finances. Yup, it's all about the money ....again.
Agnostic mother of 3
Agnostic mother of 3
realitycheck | 8:31 a.m. May 20, 2008
to Seattle LDS (1st post here):
It's unclear why people keep talking about polygamy. This really has very little to do with that. The kids weren't taken because the men had multiple wives. The kids were taken because they were trapped behind a huge wall with a watchtower, and reports of child abuse were received. Even if you all had just one wife each, CPS would have come in - simply because you walled yourself in. Join the real world, and you'd probably be left alone.
It's unclear why people keep talking about polygamy. This really has very little to do with that. The kids weren't taken because the men had multiple wives. The kids were taken because they were trapped behind a huge wall with a watchtower, and reports of child abuse were received. Even if you all had just one wife each, CPS would have come in - simply because you walled yourself in. Join the real world, and you'd probably be left alone.
Sharon | 8:34 a.m. May 20, 2008
Reply off of WHERE IS MERRILL 'S POST, 7:24am
I am sure most of the posters here have read or heard what kind of sorry excuse for a dad Merrill Jessop is. If he was able to, beat and waterboard the Texas goverment people..like he could his own children and get by with it...he wouldnt be in hiding. Hes taking the cowards way out.
IF..these FLDS members are so concerned about the children...why in the heck are there 100 of the FLDS children in Texas CPS custody without parents ?? These FLDS people know who these kids belong to, but refuse to step forward and say, " that little girl/boy belongs to...so and so".
WE LOVE OUR CHILDREN...WE NEED OUR CHILDREN BACK...that is all but, 100 of them.
I am sure most of the posters here have read or heard what kind of sorry excuse for a dad Merrill Jessop is. If he was able to, beat and waterboard the Texas goverment people..like he could his own children and get by with it...he wouldnt be in hiding. Hes taking the cowards way out.
IF..these FLDS members are so concerned about the children...why in the heck are there 100 of the FLDS children in Texas CPS custody without parents ?? These FLDS people know who these kids belong to, but refuse to step forward and say, " that little girl/boy belongs to...so and so".
WE LOVE OUR CHILDREN...WE NEED OUR CHILDREN BACK...that is all but, 100 of them.
polygamy | 8:41 a.m. May 20, 2008
the fathers aren't hiding because of polygamy, since only one wife is
legally married. There's no law against getting a bunch of women pregnant
- after all it happens in the inner-city a lot. It's stupid, but not
illegal.
The fathers are hiding for some other reason, and it may be even worse than we think. If those kids can be convinced to discuss it, many men may be going to jail. (We'll just have to track them down in their red cadillacs)
The fathers are hiding for some other reason, and it may be even worse than we think. If those kids can be convinced to discuss it, many men may be going to jail. (We'll just have to track them down in their red cadillacs)
TO Sharon | 8:43 a.m. May 20, 2008
Odd, isn't it that despite your accusation based on Carolyn's words,
Betty Jessop (left FLDS with mother at age 13) returned when she was 18 years
two days. How do you reconcile that after 5 years in the real world with real
choices and a chance to understand abuse, she returned to the FLDS? She is the
daughter of Merrill Jessop and would have witnessed such allegations. How do
you reconcile that no charges were brought up against him only allegations by
Carolyn without action by the state?
I find it equally amusing that so many claim the woman aren't allowed to "speak", yet now that the woman are speaking out, you are claiming the men are "cowards" for not speaking. What a lose/lose situation for the FLDS yet you likely will not see the obvious contradiction.
I find it equally amusing that so many claim the woman aren't allowed to "speak", yet now that the woman are speaking out, you are claiming the men are "cowards" for not speaking. What a lose/lose situation for the FLDS yet you likely will not see the obvious contradiction.
Trapped by Deceit | 9:05 a.m. May 20, 2008
It seems that the FLDS are being trapped by their own lies.
Warren Jeffs handpicked the families who moved to the YFZ Ranch. The 3 to 1 disparity in the ratio of 14-17 girls to boys is an indication that either some of boys were left behind, or some of the girls came from families not living at the ranch.
That the FLDS practice polygamy is a fact, although they have a tortured rationale for why they aren't breaking the law, through "spiritual" marriages, and why performing forced underaged marriages is neither illegal nor immoral.
The FLDS are doing everything they can to hide the identities of the parents of some of the children, because they know that some of them have been involved in forced underaged girls being married and raped, and that revealing the identities of the fathers will provide the authorities with the names of the abusers.
Judges would be negligent to allow any child to be returned to their family before ensuring that the father isn't an abuser.
Warren Jeffs handpicked the families who moved to the YFZ Ranch. The 3 to 1 disparity in the ratio of 14-17 girls to boys is an indication that either some of boys were left behind, or some of the girls came from families not living at the ranch.
That the FLDS practice polygamy is a fact, although they have a tortured rationale for why they aren't breaking the law, through "spiritual" marriages, and why performing forced underaged marriages is neither illegal nor immoral.
The FLDS are doing everything they can to hide the identities of the parents of some of the children, because they know that some of them have been involved in forced underaged girls being married and raped, and that revealing the identities of the fathers will provide the authorities with the names of the abusers.
Judges would be negligent to allow any child to be returned to their family before ensuring that the father isn't an abuser.
m | 9:16 a.m. May 20, 2008
I too feel sorry for the FLDS men - they have lost half of their wives. Come on
people. When they did the raid they claimed they took 53 girls between the ages
of 12 - 18 and of those 31 were pregnant. This isn't about polygamy, this
is about young girls being expected to "spiritually marry" a man and
start having sex once they go thru puberty. Texas hasn't handled it the
best but they are trying to put a stop to the abuse.
Don't even get me started about how many of these young girls are on welfare because they are not legally married.
Don't even get me started about how many of these young girls are on welfare because they are not legally married.
wrz | 9:22 a.m. May 20, 2008
"having to travel all over the state of texas to see their kids is also a
burden that makes it impossible to comblie."
The mothers should charge the government for travel expenses and time in travel status.
"taking of the BofM from the boys because it has a picture of warren jeffs is a bad sign. take the picture, leave the book."
Take neither the book or the picture. And sue the state for violating the constitutional right of freedom of worship.
The mothers should charge the government for travel expenses and time in travel status.
"taking of the BofM from the boys because it has a picture of warren jeffs is a bad sign. take the picture, leave the book."
Take neither the book or the picture. And sue the state for violating the constitutional right of freedom of worship.
Ned | 9:22 a.m. May 20, 2008
The FLDS men are twisted in their thinking. They think it is just fine to have
sex with underage girls. They will argue this point, and that it is their
"God given right" to do with as they will with as many women as they
please. The FLDS men like Warren Jeffs are not mentally all together. Immoral
behavior is a big part of their culture. They see no wrong whatsoever in what
they do with women. I would like just one FLDS man, to take a lie detector test
who actually believes God told him to be a polygamist. I bet we would all see
nothing but lies on their test results.
Freddie | 9:30 a.m. May 20, 2008
"WHERE ARE THE 'FATHERS'?"
They're on the job working. How else are the families supposed to be supported?
They're on the job working. How else are the families supposed to be supported?
WARREN | 9:35 a.m. May 20, 2008
I dont care how you do it..or what it takes
YOU get those children back !! Otherwise, we'll go bankrupted and have to shut the YFZ prison down !!
YOU get those children back !! Otherwise, we'll go bankrupted and have to shut the YFZ prison down !!
Sandy & Family | 9:36 a.m. May 20, 2008
OK folks!!Here is the point of this all.We are all adults and need to act as
such.This is not about the LDS,FLDS,Baptist,Catholic,Pentecostal or any one
specific religion.These people practice their religion of choice which is their
God given and constitutional right.This isn't a squabble over whether one
religion should or will help another.This violation of many of their rights
could and will affect us all soon.We need to stop bashing the LDS church because
they are their own religion.This is not a church bashing party.It is however a
major violation of these peoples rights.I know no one out there would want your
children taken because of your choice of religion.It has boiled down to this.Put
yourselves in their shoes.This was mans actions and no wrong has been proven
except what has happened to this community.Stop calling it a compound or
sect.These terms will apply to your organizations one day soon.Wake up and focus
on the issue.The abuse has been from the CPS and other authorities in this case
not the parents.
Deaf Ears | 9:38 a.m. May 20, 2008
Hey, Texas Governor Rick Perry! Is Texas "The" child stealing state
now? - Stop embarrassing America in front of the world! Shut down your FASCIST
CPS agency and return the children to their mothers.
betty | 9:39 a.m. May 20, 2008
when i read the book escape, i remember that betty was the oldest of the
children, had more years to be brainwashed, was the fathers pet, would expect to
be given to a man with money and glad to get a young, beautiful wife. it may
take her years before she wakes up to what she has done. i also read that her
mother is in contact with her by phone.
if an adult wants to be a mans concubine, she can.
if an adult wants to be a mans concubine, she can.
Susan | 10:00 a.m. May 20, 2008
"Tell your attorney husband that protecting the children from abuse is
paramount to worrying about whether a father will incriminate himself by being
identified as the father of a child."
In a court of law, no one is required to testify against himself or incriminate himself. Should be the case in Texas Kangaroo Courts as well.
In a court of law, no one is required to testify against himself or incriminate himself. Should be the case in Texas Kangaroo Courts as well.
TO Sharon | 10:02 a.m. May 20, 2008
While you claim that Betty was a baby when the abused OLDER kids and would have
been a witness to abuse of the younger children had that been truth. You also
ignore that there was 5 years to relearn belief which is more than adequate time
especially considering her age. I repeat this since it seems MANY choose to
ignore that she is only one of MANY that have returned. Look at Fawn Holms who
also returned...and the list goes on but you still ignore it. Instead wanting to
believe that most need an "escape." It sounds so much more exciting
that way.
You wonder why they spoke as they did, but I don't wonder. They were terrified that the wrong statement might guarantee permanent loss of custody. You maintain that the woman were all "told" what to say yet then also claim the men vanished. Then who exactly is "telling" these women what to do. Again, you own words prove illogical.
You speak about programming/brainwashing, but forget that the women are doing the raising and programming of the next generation.
Why are 100 children not claimed? Because CPS is slow and haven't caught up.
Agnostic mother of 3.
You wonder why they spoke as they did, but I don't wonder. They were terrified that the wrong statement might guarantee permanent loss of custody. You maintain that the woman were all "told" what to say yet then also claim the men vanished. Then who exactly is "telling" these women what to do. Again, you own words prove illogical.
You speak about programming/brainwashing, but forget that the women are doing the raising and programming of the next generation.
Why are 100 children not claimed? Because CPS is slow and haven't caught up.
Agnostic mother of 3.
To Freddie | 10:03 a.m. May 20, 2008
Reality check for you: Currently, the FLDS fathers are not supporting their
families, or at least not their children in Texas, due to the fact that, I along
with other taxpaying Texans, are actually working to support THEIR choice to
have dozens of children. It's not fair on any front, but that's the
current reality. If my husband were in their shoes, he would find the time to
make it into court to fight for his family--as would any decent father--period.
Sharon | 10:13 a.m. May 20, 2008
Answer to WRZ 9:22am
The FLDS could ask the government to deduct the travel expenses from money owed back to the tax payers (US) for the FLDS's welfare fraud...
Freddie 9:30am
Your answer and question sounds reasonable...seeing that, I'm sure their welfare has come to a halt.
The FLDS could ask the government to deduct the travel expenses from money owed back to the tax payers (US) for the FLDS's welfare fraud...
Freddie 9:30am
Your answer and question sounds reasonable...seeing that, I'm sure their welfare has come to a halt.
To To Freddie | 10:15 a.m. May 20, 2008
Reality check for YOU: The FLDS are not on welfare. Research before you spout
off whatever you hear.
J-man | 10:14 a.m. May 20, 2008
Does anyone know how many wives and kids Warren Jeffs has?
How many wives and kids does Merril Jessop have?
And how many of those are welfare recipients?
How many wives and kids does Merril Jessop have?
And how many of those are welfare recipients?
Anonymous | 10:17 a.m. May 20, 2008
All of you who say that these children should be returned to the YFZ ranch, I
dare you to take you own 14 year old daughter and send her there. If you would
not then rethink your opinion.
Johnny Utah #9 | 10:34 a.m. May 20, 2008
Re: Seattle LDS Mom | 12:55 a.m. May 20, 2008
I agree that the LDS church should be helping in some way. We all know that the LDS church has denounced polygamy 100 years ago, bla, bla, bla, but, they have the more in common with these people than anybody else in the world. The LDS church helps a lot of other people regardless of their religion, so why not the FLDS? Could the LDS church be persecuting the FLDS for their beliefs??? Sounds like it to me. These kids need a place to go, a mormon foster family seems like a no brainer.
I agree that the LDS church should be helping in some way. We all know that the LDS church has denounced polygamy 100 years ago, bla, bla, bla, but, they have the more in common with these people than anybody else in the world. The LDS church helps a lot of other people regardless of their religion, so why not the FLDS? Could the LDS church be persecuting the FLDS for their beliefs??? Sounds like it to me. These kids need a place to go, a mormon foster family seems like a no brainer.
To: To To Freddie 10:15am | 10:39 a.m. May 20, 2008
I MEANT that we Texas taxpayers are currently paying for the state to take care
of all of these children, not that they were on welfare before. I have no idea
whether they were or were not on welfare. I realize that this was the
state's choice, I was merely pointing out that--be it by welfare or by CPS
custody, I don't relish the idea of supporting Merrill Jessop's and
Warren Jeff's who-knows-how-many children! Warren Jeff's decision to
send these folks to Texas has brought his followers nothing but dispair--some
Zion that is! At this rate, they'll be "yearning" for quite some
time...
To Salt Lake LDS Mom | 10:41 a.m. May 20, 2008
"These scriptures speak about eternal marriage, and to not only accept the
docterine, but understand that it must be gone into with proper authority. What
authority do these people (FLDS) claim? They rejected the prophet (Wilford
Woodruff) Deciding they knew best."
Actually, from the FLDS point of view, it is the mainstream (mormon lite) church that lost priesthood authority when they chose to ignore devine revelation given through John Taylor and exchange the hardships that would be involved in living the new and everlasting covenant (not some temporary one) for statehood. Look at the history with an open mind, not one filtered through mormon lite teachings, and you'll find the truth is there. It's just not something that is comfortable for mainstream LDS (like me) to admit.
Actually, from the FLDS point of view, it is the mainstream (mormon lite) church that lost priesthood authority when they chose to ignore devine revelation given through John Taylor and exchange the hardships that would be involved in living the new and everlasting covenant (not some temporary one) for statehood. Look at the history with an open mind, not one filtered through mormon lite teachings, and you'll find the truth is there. It's just not something that is comfortable for mainstream LDS (like me) to admit.
Southern Utah Resident | 10:45 a.m. May 20, 2008
We've watched abuse of children, both girls and boys for generations here
in Southern Utah... right under the noses of law enforcement who have chosen to
ignore it. Utah's attorney general should be kicked out of office!
We are glad that Texas authorities are finally doing something about the rape of young girls, the brainwashing of women, and the abandonment of boys.
We are glad that Texas authorities are finally doing something about the rape of young girls, the brainwashing of women, and the abandonment of boys.
realitycheck (welfare fraud) | 10:48 a.m. May 20, 2008
those of you that state that no one at YFZ ranch was on welfare - wake up.
They were being supported by monies sent in from out-of-state, and a lot of that is from welfare. Utah taxpayers were (are) paying for life at the ranch, and are now paying for the lawyers of the ranch. How do you think these people at YFZ survive? They have no jobs and create no outside products. They are leaches "bleeding the beast", which they are really good at. They are even proud of it.
You think they grew money on trees? Come on - wake up. Just because the welfare fraud was from out of state doesn't mean these people weren't living off of it. If I was from Utah, I'd be mad as hell to have to support these people.
They were being supported by monies sent in from out-of-state, and a lot of that is from welfare. Utah taxpayers were (are) paying for life at the ranch, and are now paying for the lawyers of the ranch. How do you think these people at YFZ survive? They have no jobs and create no outside products. They are leaches "bleeding the beast", which they are really good at. They are even proud of it.
You think they grew money on trees? Come on - wake up. Just because the welfare fraud was from out of state doesn't mean these people weren't living off of it. If I was from Utah, I'd be mad as hell to have to support these people.
Re: To To Freddie | 10:15 a.m. M | 10:48 a.m. May 20, 2008
"Reality check for YOU: The FLDS are not on welfare. Research before you
spout off whatever you hear."
Gary Engels, the lead investigator during the Warren Jeffs case has said many times during news interviews that many of the FLDS women draw welfare benefits from the state, claiming to be single un-wed mothers. While they are not ALL on welfare, "many" are. They [FLDS] call it "Bleeding the Beast"
Gary Engels, the lead investigator during the Warren Jeffs case has said many times during news interviews that many of the FLDS women draw welfare benefits from the state, claiming to be single un-wed mothers. While they are not ALL on welfare, "many" are. They [FLDS] call it "Bleeding the Beast"
Re: Susan | 10:51 a.m. May 20, 2008
"In a court of law, no one is required to testify against himself or
incriminate himself."
And, not surprisingly, the FLDS are all about lying to protect themselves from prosecution. That's why they perform "spiritual" marriages, so they can't be prosecuted for practicing polygamy
That's why they refuse to identify the parents of the children, because they know that some of them will end up being prosecuted for child abuse because they've actually participated in forced, underage marriages.
It's no surprise that protecting themselves from prosecution is far more important to them than their children are.
Pay no attention to that child abuser behind the curtain. Just return our kids and all will be forgotten, except for the windfall millions we�re expecting from all of the lawsuits we plan to file.
The FLDS feel no guilt when they violate the law and abuse their own children, but heaven help anyone else who violates their right to abuse their children as they see fit.
They have the audacity to criticize Carolyn Jessop for making a little money from a book about them, when they're already counting on making millions from their lawsuits.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
And, not surprisingly, the FLDS are all about lying to protect themselves from prosecution. That's why they perform "spiritual" marriages, so they can't be prosecuted for practicing polygamy
That's why they refuse to identify the parents of the children, because they know that some of them will end up being prosecuted for child abuse because they've actually participated in forced, underage marriages.
It's no surprise that protecting themselves from prosecution is far more important to them than their children are.
Pay no attention to that child abuser behind the curtain. Just return our kids and all will be forgotten, except for the windfall millions we�re expecting from all of the lawsuits we plan to file.
The FLDS feel no guilt when they violate the law and abuse their own children, but heaven help anyone else who violates their right to abuse their children as they see fit.
They have the audacity to criticize Carolyn Jessop for making a little money from a book about them, when they're already counting on making millions from their lawsuits.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
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Members of the Fundamentalist LDS Church arrive at the Tom Green County Courthouse in San Angelo, Texas, on Monday for hearings on what they must do to regain custody of their children.
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Even though the LDS church no longer practices Polygamy it is for purely political reasons and the doctrine is that there will be polygamy in the next life. So the failure of the LDS church to stand up and offer foster homes and legal assistance is purely to position Mitt Romney for future political positions.