Reader comments
'You have been sued,' FLDS parents told
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chemist. | 1:46 a.m. May 18, 2008
Mr. Roundy's letter is threatening and arrogant. The idea that the flds are
the true keepers of the Joseph Smith-Brigham Young torch is ridiculous. Where is
the flds missionary program? Where are the flds institutions of higher learning?
Rather than free agency the flds have isolation and brainwashing. Rather than
work with the wayward teen age boys who have commited a minor transgression the
boys are kicked out and shunned. Rather than obey the laws of the land many of
their men, including their president, have been successfully prosecuted for
involvement in under age marriage. The flds is an obscure, personality cult that
will throw every righteous and good principle overboard to maintain an illegal
polygymous lifestyle.
Thomas | 3:22 a.m. May 18, 2008
This story is right on, but dont expect CPS are anyone else connected with the
state to make a retional response.
John | 5:33 a.m. May 18, 2008
This man, Sam Roundy, is right on the money.
He didn't mention that 25% of our teens have std's.
He didn't mention that the 2nd major cause of death for our teens is by gunshots.
He didn't mention that we have the largest percentage of teen drug use in the world; and the high rate of children of perscription psychiatric medication (4 million)
Texas also has the largest number of teen births - a stat set prior to the arrival of the flds.
I am a east coast Catholic and have never seen or met an FLDS member, but I believe that this raid is a fiacso which denies individual rights to these people based on their religion and the defacto secular - feminist cult which runs most CPS type organisations.
He didn't mention that 25% of our teens have std's.
He didn't mention that the 2nd major cause of death for our teens is by gunshots.
He didn't mention that we have the largest percentage of teen drug use in the world; and the high rate of children of perscription psychiatric medication (4 million)
Texas also has the largest number of teen births - a stat set prior to the arrival of the flds.
I am a east coast Catholic and have never seen or met an FLDS member, but I believe that this raid is a fiacso which denies individual rights to these people based on their religion and the defacto secular - feminist cult which runs most CPS type organisations.
Comments continue below
Oh John | 8:14 a.m. May 18, 2008
Free agency is the key here. Do you think a child at puberty can say "Oh
Mother, I dont want to get married and have man-wife relations with this 60, 70
year old man." and the mother replies well then dear you shall not.
NOT
NOT
Wow | 8:54 a.m. May 18, 2008
So CPS pulls children away from parents yet bizarrely TX isn't
investigating that but FLDS financing? Um, I thought TX was SOOOO concerned
about the children when the reality is they are only interested in money. This
now seems more about real kidnapping (A thought I originally thought an
outrageous FLDS allegation) with a ransom being demanded by the state.
To Chemist | 9:36 a.m. May 18, 2008
You sound a little religiously prejudiced to me. The religion of Oral Roberts
meets your criteria... how do you feel about that church? All of this is
exactly why there should be a separation of church and state. What Texas is
doing is all about the safety of children, not about a religion. Just for the
record, they have taken children from parents belonging to a Christian church
where the pastor beats the children in the name of God to gain their compliance.
What the FLDS are doing to their kids in the name of God is unlawful. Period.
Two wrongs don't make a right | 9:50 a.m. May 18, 2008
Why would anybody compare our problems in society with the FLDS? The problems
in society are being addressed as they can be; the problems in FLDS groups were
not until the law got involved. These people are "brain- washed" and
not allowed to ask for help. They have to "escape" or get help from
the outside. Just because there are many problems in society doesn't mean
that we should turn a blind eye on people needing help.
Two wrongs REALLY don't make it | 10:22 a.m. May 18, 2008
The constant din of "These people are 'brain- washed' and not
allowed to ask for help" does not make it true.
I am an outsider with 10 years experience with these fine people. Your incessant attempts to demonize and dehumanize them will just lead to the loss of your own liberties. The wrong of civil rights abuse does not justify anything you think is going on in their community--even if it were true.
I am an outsider with 10 years experience with these fine people. Your incessant attempts to demonize and dehumanize them will just lead to the loss of your own liberties. The wrong of civil rights abuse does not justify anything you think is going on in their community--even if it were true.
Gal50 | 10:37 a.m. May 18, 2008
In reading Roundy's letter, he came across as the old man that he is. And,
he evidenced the same sort of good-bad splitting that the other FLDS members
have evidenced over the past few weeks. This belief that the outside world is
all-bad and the FLDS is all good has got to go for the sake of the mental health
of these children. They should not be forced to fear the outside world.
Let me turn the tables and put on my delusional hat.
Unlike the FLDS, my children will not share living quarters with someone who has committed statutory rape. My children are four and five years above grade level, not behind like the FLDS. My children will not risk contracting a deadly disease as they have been immunized. I am of sound mind and if CPS comes knocking at my door, I am able to identify my children and those in my home who do not belong to me. I can supply birth certificates. I haven't thrown out my children's play toys or their pets like the FLDS parents were ordered to do by Jeffs. My children get to read books unlike FLDS children.
Let me turn the tables and put on my delusional hat.
Unlike the FLDS, my children will not share living quarters with someone who has committed statutory rape. My children are four and five years above grade level, not behind like the FLDS. My children will not risk contracting a deadly disease as they have been immunized. I am of sound mind and if CPS comes knocking at my door, I am able to identify my children and those in my home who do not belong to me. I can supply birth certificates. I haven't thrown out my children's play toys or their pets like the FLDS parents were ordered to do by Jeffs. My children get to read books unlike FLDS children.
John | 10:50 a.m. May 18, 2008
good thing this board doesn't get into LDS problems, lets just bash FLDS
and let it go at that.
hypocritical to say the least.
hypocritical to say the least.
Sol | 1:21 p.m. May 18, 2008
" the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the
people from every quarter'
And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may abuse them."
Sounds so much like the CPS and their crime and abuse ridden foster homes out looking for fresh young victims. I feel so sorry for what those children will go through if they remain in Texas care, we'll create new drug abusers at the least.
And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may abuse them."
Sounds so much like the CPS and their crime and abuse ridden foster homes out looking for fresh young victims. I feel so sorry for what those children will go through if they remain in Texas care, we'll create new drug abusers at the least.
SueEmFLDS! | 2:15 p.m. May 18, 2008
Gal50:
Good for him! He is using his "freedom of speech" which the press and the CPS have so spewingly used against him and all that he loves! Whether you or I agree with it, or the other side of the issue for that matter, is no reason to bash someone for believing the CPS is bad because they think the FLDS is bad and they (CPS) are only good. CPS did this "they are bad and we are only good" thing to them (FLDS) first and for over a week we heard only the CPS side of the story while they kept FLDS women isolated and restricted from the men, the media and their lawyers. After the negative, negative, negative they have been allowed to speak out for themselves! Horray for their freedom at last (to a small degree)
Good for him! He is using his "freedom of speech" which the press and the CPS have so spewingly used against him and all that he loves! Whether you or I agree with it, or the other side of the issue for that matter, is no reason to bash someone for believing the CPS is bad because they think the FLDS is bad and they (CPS) are only good. CPS did this "they are bad and we are only good" thing to them (FLDS) first and for over a week we heard only the CPS side of the story while they kept FLDS women isolated and restricted from the men, the media and their lawyers. After the negative, negative, negative they have been allowed to speak out for themselves! Horray for their freedom at last (to a small degree)
chemist | 3:25 p.m. May 18, 2008
My comment refuted 2 things in the Roundy letter.
1. The flds practice of polygamy is illegal.
2. His letter asserts that the flds are the true followers of JS-BY. I am not predjudiced for or against any religion, but am against any religion that incorporates illegal activity or that is hypocritical ( say they follow one thing, but do another).
1. The flds practice of polygamy is illegal.
2. His letter asserts that the flds are the true followers of JS-BY. I am not predjudiced for or against any religion, but am against any religion that incorporates illegal activity or that is hypocritical ( say they follow one thing, but do another).
fuzzy | 6:47 p.m. May 18, 2008
Words! It is all just words! Those of you who are pro FLDS are wasting your
time, because those people with a myopic view of life will refuse to see the
truth even if is laid before their feet, and the goverment is on their side. I
have seen it so many times.
Sadly my advice for the good people of FLDS is not to fight the goverment. I know that sounds cazy, but you will not win. Not because you are wrong, but because the goverment is never wrong, and so if you fight this battle that the goverment is eager for. You will give lots of money away to greedy people, and dangle on the end of string dancing to the goverment's tune. Facing impossible demands that can not be met. Only to gain a even greater heartache in the end. Take heart in knowing that these are the end times, and things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. My prayers are with you!
Fuzzy
Sadly my advice for the good people of FLDS is not to fight the goverment. I know that sounds cazy, but you will not win. Not because you are wrong, but because the goverment is never wrong, and so if you fight this battle that the goverment is eager for. You will give lots of money away to greedy people, and dangle on the end of string dancing to the goverment's tune. Facing impossible demands that can not be met. Only to gain a even greater heartache in the end. Take heart in knowing that these are the end times, and things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. My prayers are with you!
Fuzzy
Sugar Momma | 9:03 p.m. May 18, 2008
Yeah, I was sympathizing with the FLDS until I read that Roundy guy's
letter.
What an ignorant, self-righteous, chauvinistic megolomaniac. It blows my mind that the YFZ ranch were foolish enough to let someone so uneducated and barbaric write a letter to such important people in this case. As a self-appointed emmissary for the FLDS church, he just made the lot of them seem like a bunch of brainwashed, backwood retards.
You can tell he's lived in a closed world his whole life. It's probably giving him a cardiac that some of the attorneys volunteering their time to help them are black women.
Warren Jeffs really should move his misogynistic lackeys to the Middle East. They'd fit right in.
And that 80-year old creep actually mentioned Warren Jeffs as being the mouth piece for Jesus Christ. Unbelievable. This is so gonna have a disturbing ending. Coolaid anyone?
What an ignorant, self-righteous, chauvinistic megolomaniac. It blows my mind that the YFZ ranch were foolish enough to let someone so uneducated and barbaric write a letter to such important people in this case. As a self-appointed emmissary for the FLDS church, he just made the lot of them seem like a bunch of brainwashed, backwood retards.
You can tell he's lived in a closed world his whole life. It's probably giving him a cardiac that some of the attorneys volunteering their time to help them are black women.
Warren Jeffs really should move his misogynistic lackeys to the Middle East. They'd fit right in.
And that 80-year old creep actually mentioned Warren Jeffs as being the mouth piece for Jesus Christ. Unbelievable. This is so gonna have a disturbing ending. Coolaid anyone?
Jill F | 9:26 p.m. May 18, 2008
Funny how he talks about adultery outside the FLDS--when FLDS members commit
adultery constantly. In fact it seems their religion requires it. Only one
marriage is legal; the other so-called "wives" are actually adulterous
relationships. And the underage ones are sexual abuse as well.
However, I do not approve of the way CPS is handling this case. They are treating children and parents very badly. Even if children needed to be removed until their safety could be assured. Siblings should have been kept together-or at least in the same town or city so parents can visit. And parents should be encouraged to visit. What better way to observe and get a feeling as to the parents' fitness and their relationship to their children? Mothers should not have been separated from their infants and toddlers. But it's not religious persecution. CPS often treats people unjustly. My experience with government agencies in general is that they can be very arrogant, and even cruel, often harming the people they are supposed to be helping. When questioned, they'll claim to be following "policy", even when its a bad--or nonexistent--policy.
However, I do not approve of the way CPS is handling this case. They are treating children and parents very badly. Even if children needed to be removed until their safety could be assured. Siblings should have been kept together-or at least in the same town or city so parents can visit. And parents should be encouraged to visit. What better way to observe and get a feeling as to the parents' fitness and their relationship to their children? Mothers should not have been separated from their infants and toddlers. But it's not religious persecution. CPS often treats people unjustly. My experience with government agencies in general is that they can be very arrogant, and even cruel, often harming the people they are supposed to be helping. When questioned, they'll claim to be following "policy", even when its a bad--or nonexistent--policy.
none | 12:12 a.m. May 19, 2008
I can understand why it's nearly impossible to keep the family groups
together.
In a normal foster home, 2 parents deal with a small set of siblings in the real world. There is time to focus on learning from the kids and discovering abuses.
In this situation, the family groups are enormous, and there are no distinct family lines. Shelters were chosen to shelter the kids from the scary outside world. This is rarely done, but seems to be a must for these families. But that leaves room for sexual, physical, and emotional abuse to happen among the siblings since there is far less individual supervision. Boys HAVE to be separated from girls. And older boys must be separated from younger boys (given the evidence already gathered about potential sex abuse between these groups of minors).
It's a total mess. And one that was created 100% by the FLDS and their illegal and immoral activities (alongside their willingness to flaunt illegal behaviors to outsiders).
In a normal foster home, 2 parents deal with a small set of siblings in the real world. There is time to focus on learning from the kids and discovering abuses.
In this situation, the family groups are enormous, and there are no distinct family lines. Shelters were chosen to shelter the kids from the scary outside world. This is rarely done, but seems to be a must for these families. But that leaves room for sexual, physical, and emotional abuse to happen among the siblings since there is far less individual supervision. Boys HAVE to be separated from girls. And older boys must be separated from younger boys (given the evidence already gathered about potential sex abuse between these groups of minors).
It's a total mess. And one that was created 100% by the FLDS and their illegal and immoral activities (alongside their willingness to flaunt illegal behaviors to outsiders).
hazz | 1:26 a.m. May 19, 2008
No one can acually judge how the FLDS are because no one has been there. It is
only the papers warped statements we are going by. Judge not that you be not
judged. We need to remember what Christ taught and stood for.
Katchalater | 6:55 p.m. May 19, 2008
"We do not have policemen because we have no law breakers.
No Mr. Roundy, you do not have policemen because they were all fired for sexual abuse, failure to report sexual abuse cases to the state, serving Warren instead of serving the law and discriminating against non FLDS by helping to evict them from their homes.
No Mr. Roundy, you do not have policemen because they were all fired for sexual abuse, failure to report sexual abuse cases to the state, serving Warren instead of serving the law and discriminating against non FLDS by helping to evict them from their homes.
VikingGnome | 8:36 p.m. May 19, 2008
Roundy emphasized to the governor and judge that the FLDS are a peaceful people,
as evidenced by the fact that no weapons except a bow and arrow were found
during the raid.
THAT A BLATANT LIE. Merril Jessop pointed out hunting rifles they had in a cabinent to the officers during the raid.
Mr. Roundy wasn't there so his testimony is totally hearsay.
THAT A BLATANT LIE. Merril Jessop pointed out hunting rifles they had in a cabinent to the officers during the raid.
Mr. Roundy wasn't there so his testimony is totally hearsay.
Kris | 9:19 p.m. May 19, 2008
When the state declares that "teaching homophobia to children is a hate
crime" and they want to educate your children, then it will be your turn to
be the criminal because of your beliefs.
These FLDS cases are a roadmap, a precedent, and a caution to all. I'd rather defend them now, than later face an inquisition by a state gone mad.
These FLDS cases are a roadmap, a precedent, and a caution to all. I'd rather defend them now, than later face an inquisition by a state gone mad.
Simple Simon | 9:41 p.m. May 19, 2008
These FLDS cases are a roadmap, a precedent, and a caution to all. I'd
rather defend them now, than later face an inquisition by a state gone mad.
Dittos Dittos Dittos Dittos
See the forest....
Dittos Dittos Dittos Dittos
See the forest....
Steven Rinehart | 4:03 p.m. May 21, 2008
I hope Texas burns for what they've done to these people. Texas CPS lied,
fabricated evidence, stole countless children, and falsely arrested those who
tried to stop them. How can we as Americans stand by and let the government
treat people this way? Have we learned nothing in 400 years?
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