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Readers' forum: Give alarmists cold shoulder
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P.S. Rainer..... | 5:35 a.m. May 15, 2008
Your NOT-SO-INTERESTING RANT about Mr. Commoner in the 1960's has no
relevance! Why not share your vision and wisdom to offer real proof that
we're all being duped on the climate issue. Because you have no real
proof...
Timj | 6:16 a.m. May 15, 2008
Alarmists? Maybe.
And yet, since these people generally say, "If we don't do A, then B will happen," and we usually end up doing "A" (improving our treatment of the planet in one way or another) there's no way to test if the predictions would've come true or not.
Personally, I'd rather breath clean air and drink water that doesn't adversely affect my health. They're worth more to me than a big truck or a McMansion.
And yet, since these people generally say, "If we don't do A, then B will happen," and we usually end up doing "A" (improving our treatment of the planet in one way or another) there's no way to test if the predictions would've come true or not.
Personally, I'd rather breath clean air and drink water that doesn't adversely affect my health. They're worth more to me than a big truck or a McMansion.
Anonymous | 6:18 a.m. May 15, 2008
So, are you saying that global warming is just a natural condition and that man
is in no way responsible? Whew! This is relief.
Comments continue below
Anonymous | 6:32 a.m. May 15, 2008
Devalued dollar
Jobs outsourced
GM plants built in China
Highest national debt ever
Never-ending war
Inflation
More people tomorrow than exist today
Alarmists?
Jobs outsourced
GM plants built in China
Highest national debt ever
Never-ending war
Inflation
More people tomorrow than exist today
Alarmists?
Lefty | 7:22 a.m. May 15, 2008
Is what the 'alarmists' are asking you to do really such an
imposition, or are you just greedy, or lazy?
BBKing | 7:35 a.m. May 15, 2008
You need proof that it is alarmist? Have you not read these boards over the
months? The proof cannot be ignored, unless you are an alarmist
environmentalist.
Back in the late 1700's there was a philosopher/economist type by the name of Malthuas. He was the first 'modern' prophet of doom. He predicted that man would out-consume resources, starvation ,dieseas, would kick in and remove over 90% of the population by the early 1800's.
Nothing has changed when it comes to the doom and gloom.
Proof:
-Satellite readings show no increase in atmospheric tempretures.
-NASA admits "mistake" with temp readings, and the 1990s were NOT the hottest decade in century, remains the 1930s.
-Ice corp samples show that elevated CO2 takes place on average 800 years AFTER temp increase, CO2 does NOT cause globalwarming.
-more recent, group is checking ground temp stations and finding over 1/3 in violation of standards giving increased temp readings. As example, all are suppose to be in open, not near man made objects that could artificially increase temp readings. One located on black-top asphalt, one near a heating duct, etc. 1/3 fail standards.
-Leipzig letter of 85 leading climatologists condemn hysteria of Globalwarming.
Truth is there!
Back in the late 1700's there was a philosopher/economist type by the name of Malthuas. He was the first 'modern' prophet of doom. He predicted that man would out-consume resources, starvation ,dieseas, would kick in and remove over 90% of the population by the early 1800's.
Nothing has changed when it comes to the doom and gloom.
Proof:
-Satellite readings show no increase in atmospheric tempretures.
-NASA admits "mistake" with temp readings, and the 1990s were NOT the hottest decade in century, remains the 1930s.
-Ice corp samples show that elevated CO2 takes place on average 800 years AFTER temp increase, CO2 does NOT cause globalwarming.
-more recent, group is checking ground temp stations and finding over 1/3 in violation of standards giving increased temp readings. As example, all are suppose to be in open, not near man made objects that could artificially increase temp readings. One located on black-top asphalt, one near a heating duct, etc. 1/3 fail standards.
-Leipzig letter of 85 leading climatologists condemn hysteria of Globalwarming.
Truth is there!
fr1nk | 7:58 a.m. May 15, 2008
Walter Williams is a political hack and Rainer Huck just wants to be able to
ride his 4 wheeler over every piece of unspoiled land in the state.
But if you are talking about "saddam hussein has WMD's and is harboring terrorists" then I agree, we should ignore alarmists.
But if you are talking about "saddam hussein has WMD's and is harboring terrorists" then I agree, we should ignore alarmists.
Choirs | 8:02 a.m. May 15, 2008
Williams' nonsense-filled article fuels another Rainer (Git outa my way,
Nature!) Huck nonsense-filled rant.
Talk about preaching to the choir.
I instead of forming your opinions on the subject of global warming from right-wing "alarmists," you instead read what ever major professional scientific organization in the world is saying on the subject?
Global warming is real, it's significant, and it's the result of human activity.
Huck and Williams can stick their heads in the sand all they want, but it won't change the reality of climate change.
Talk about preaching to the choir.
I instead of forming your opinions on the subject of global warming from right-wing "alarmists," you instead read what ever major professional scientific organization in the world is saying on the subject?
Global warming is real, it's significant, and it's the result of human activity.
Huck and Williams can stick their heads in the sand all they want, but it won't change the reality of climate change.
Mahershalalhashbaz | 8:08 a.m. May 15, 2008
Yes alaarmism. And to you chicken littles above the word is climate change,
because yes global warming has already been proven undeniably wrong. You are
not even good liberals if you don't know that. You show your ignorance by
not realizing there is solid scientific proof that voids almost every word that
has come out of your false fat Al Gore prophets worthless carbon dioxide
predictions.
GeeBee | 8:16 a.m. May 15, 2008
I love how conservatives refer to global warming as "alarmist", then
in the same breath compare diplomacy in our foreign policy as
"appeasement". It seems as if alarmism is ok as long as it fits the
neocon agenda. Global warming is fake, but everyone we don't like is the
same as Hitler.
Ernest T. Bass | 8:16 a.m. May 15, 2008
Rainer forgot to take his meds again.
Has anyone (besides the pres) ever been more wrong than Mr. Huck? The guy misses every point possible.
Has anyone (besides the pres) ever been more wrong than Mr. Huck? The guy misses every point possible.
Dave | 8:27 a.m. May 15, 2008
Those are some pretty inane comments.
YouGoFirst | 9:04 a.m. May 15, 2008
Can somebody tell me how to set up a business selling "carbon
offsets"? I am in the process of putting in my yard, and since there are
people that feel guilt over the pollution, I thought I would offer my services
and offset their carbon for a monthly maintenance fee. (The fee would vary if
they only want summer months, or if they pay for evergreen year round plants) I
think that it would be a great home business.
Barry | 9:16 a.m. May 15, 2008
I always liked BBKing. I echo his words. There is no such thing as
"man-made" global-warming. In the 70's the same alarmists were
predicting an ice-age. It never happened. If you go to a website called
"spaceweather.com," you will see a live image of the actual cause of
climate change--the sun. If you'll notice, there are only two, small
sunspots--climate change causers.
As for the polar bear, what happened to it when the climate was much warmer than it is right now? Somehow, someway it survived. That's why it is a successful animal, according to evolutionists--it has the ability to adapt to its environment, as do many other animals.
This doesn't mean that we run rough-shod over the environment. It just means that successful animals have been adapting to climate-change for thousands of years.
As for the polar bear, what happened to it when the climate was much warmer than it is right now? Somehow, someway it survived. That's why it is a successful animal, according to evolutionists--it has the ability to adapt to its environment, as do many other animals.
This doesn't mean that we run rough-shod over the environment. It just means that successful animals have been adapting to climate-change for thousands of years.
hold on... | 9:20 a.m. May 15, 2008
re: BBKing: And your "truth" can be refuted by countless others.
Why does it seem the anti-global warming acolytes always seem to attack the messengers. They never address the message. What is the message? That our planet is dirty, we are making it dirtier, and there are harmful consequences, so we need to change things.
The problem is, people like this letter writer are lazy. They don't want to change their lifestyle. So what do they do? They write off environmentalism as a left-wing wacko conspiracy, so they don't feel bad when they drive their 2 children a quarter mile to church in their 8-passenger SUVs. That'll show Al Gore who's boss!
Listen people, someone please explain to me: how can cleaning up our planet ever be considered a bad thing? Why would someone not want to improve their quality of life? If the dire consequences of global warming never come, great! We still have a beautiful, clean planet.
I understand there are extremists, but don't let them turn you into cynical, unthinking do-nothings. There is much to be done, and we will ALL benefit from it.
Why does it seem the anti-global warming acolytes always seem to attack the messengers. They never address the message. What is the message? That our planet is dirty, we are making it dirtier, and there are harmful consequences, so we need to change things.
The problem is, people like this letter writer are lazy. They don't want to change their lifestyle. So what do they do? They write off environmentalism as a left-wing wacko conspiracy, so they don't feel bad when they drive their 2 children a quarter mile to church in their 8-passenger SUVs. That'll show Al Gore who's boss!
Listen people, someone please explain to me: how can cleaning up our planet ever be considered a bad thing? Why would someone not want to improve their quality of life? If the dire consequences of global warming never come, great! We still have a beautiful, clean planet.
I understand there are extremists, but don't let them turn you into cynical, unthinking do-nothings. There is much to be done, and we will ALL benefit from it.
Anonymous | 9:34 a.m. May 15, 2008
In the meanwhile, try telling your children that the brownish-orange air they
are breathing and the putrid-tasting tap water they are drinking are gifts from
God and that who wants to live forever anyway?
YouGoFirst | 9:38 a.m. May 15, 2008
To "Choirs | 8:02 a.m.", I have read some scientific studies and
publications, and it all depends on who you read.
There are studies out there that say that the current global warming is caused by the sun, and others say that we are within the normal variations of temperature.
Also, when reading some of the papers that support manmade global warming, I have found some of the assumptions questionable.
So, what I am trying to say is that yes, read the studies, but what is very important is to THINK about their assumptions and conclusions.
There are studies out there that say that the current global warming is caused by the sun, and others say that we are within the normal variations of temperature.
Also, when reading some of the papers that support manmade global warming, I have found some of the assumptions questionable.
So, what I am trying to say is that yes, read the studies, but what is very important is to THINK about their assumptions and conclusions.
huh? | 10:11 a.m. May 15, 2008
re: YouGoFirst
So, what you are saying is that intelligent people have opinions on both sides of this issue, but that "Choirs" is wrong. So, the intelligent people that are correct believe in the same thing you do? You dismiss the others because you don't agree with them? That makes sense.
So, what you are saying is that intelligent people have opinions on both sides of this issue, but that "Choirs" is wrong. So, the intelligent people that are correct believe in the same thing you do? You dismiss the others because you don't agree with them? That makes sense.
You have to ask WHY? | 10:16 a.m. May 15, 2008
The opinion writer asks, "Why do the mainstream media give unbridled
publicity to whatever drivel falls from the lips of these fear mongers?"
Answer:
That's the mainstream media's whole shtick... to publicise whatever the latest story is that might alarm their viewers (not just the lates predictions of global destruction, but WHATEVER might get us alarmed). Notice they feature the most alarming story in every tease/advertisement to get you to watch the news tonight.
I don't blame them. Who would make it a point to tune in for a story about "More flowers blooming this year" or "New studies indicate that kittens are cuddly"? It's just their business to alarm us and make us wonder if WE are in danger.
Answer:
That's the mainstream media's whole shtick... to publicise whatever the latest story is that might alarm their viewers (not just the lates predictions of global destruction, but WHATEVER might get us alarmed). Notice they feature the most alarming story in every tease/advertisement to get you to watch the news tonight.
I don't blame them. Who would make it a point to tune in for a story about "More flowers blooming this year" or "New studies indicate that kittens are cuddly"? It's just their business to alarm us and make us wonder if WE are in danger.
Lionheart | 10:22 a.m. May 15, 2008
Why don't we get together a global cleaning group and head off to Eastern
Europe where the real pollution is. We could pull all the old rust buckets out
of the marinas where the old communist and socialist regimes left them to rot.
We could clean up some of the smoke stacks which have never been updated to
modern pollution standards. Communism and socialism leave countries too poor to
do such fancy things as be clean.
Now in Africa and India and China, they are taking advantage of new technology and putting together fully self-reliant housing including WiFi, skipping all that expensive infrastructure we had to pay for. Global warming, rising oceans, what a farce. Worry about something real. The goblins will git ya, if ya don't watch out.
Now in Africa and India and China, they are taking advantage of new technology and putting together fully self-reliant housing including WiFi, skipping all that expensive infrastructure we had to pay for. Global warming, rising oceans, what a farce. Worry about something real. The goblins will git ya, if ya don't watch out.
YouGoFirst | 10:34 a.m. May 15, 2008
To "huh? | 10:11 a.m." What I am saying is that I personally
don't believe in manmade global warming. I do believe that there are
natural warming and cooling trends, and that outside of nuclear war, we
can't alter it. My experience is that the people that claim that warming
is manmade only focus on a small data set, without considering the assumptions
being made.
What I was trying to encourage is for people to not just read and regurgitate what somebody else says, but to think about the assumptions that the scientists make and their conclusions.
What I was trying to encourage is for people to not just read and regurgitate what somebody else says, but to think about the assumptions that the scientists make and their conclusions.
Tied old song | 11:10 a.m. May 15, 2008
When California took the lead in our nation�s air quality
conservatives started the mashing of teeth. Conservatives told, whoever would
listen, the sky was falling. If the government requires smog devices cars with
cease to exist. We will not be able to afford buying a new car. Clean air in an
unfunded mandate.
This sounds humorous today. I�m glad we didn�t follow these quitters advice then. Image the inversion layer if cars used the technologies of the sixties today. Think of the children who would be suffering from lung disease.
Imagine if we had listened to these defeatists then? We breathe the fruit of those that believed Americans would step up using technology and solve the problem of smog.
Cars run better, the use less fuel and they last longer too.
This sounds humorous today. I�m glad we didn�t follow these quitters advice then. Image the inversion layer if cars used the technologies of the sixties today. Think of the children who would be suffering from lung disease.
Imagine if we had listened to these defeatists then? We breathe the fruit of those that believed Americans would step up using technology and solve the problem of smog.
Cars run better, the use less fuel and they last longer too.
stevan | 12:11 p.m. May 15, 2008
I believe that in the above "discussion", one point is sorely lacking
- that in the closed system of the earth's atmosphere a key factor in
keeping the balance of oxygen / carbon dioxide suitable for human habitation is
plant growth. It is the single most important cog in the system; our real
concern should be the loss of rainforest and spreading desertification of
temperate climates. Loss of plant growth could tip the delicate balance - lag
time in replacing mature growth could be long enough to be irreversable.
Anonymous | 12:29 p.m. May 15, 2008
Malthus was only off on his prediction of the timeline. Do you really believe
the resources of the planet are limitless?
Gus Talwynd | 12:32 p.m. May 15, 2008
Walter Williams is an economist and writer of a conservative column seen in this
newpaper on a regular basis. He makes comments regarding his own thoughts on a
subject based upon his reading. Being a conservative, he probably reads
predominately conservative material. It is, therefore, understandable he will
take a conservative perspective in everything he writes. He is definitely not
an independent voice.
Nothing is accomplished by regurgitating the opinions of conservative, or for that matter, liberal writers pushing an agenda. There is much confusion because of the semantics used by various writers and speakers on the issue. The central question, nonetheless, is: Are humans contributing to the factors that are responsible for climate change and to what level are they responsible for increasing these pollutants?
The next question is: What is the agenda of those who decry global climate change as a fraud? Also, a fair question to ask is the opposite: Is there an agenda beyond the effects of global climate change on the common good that the pro-warming crowd is advocating?
One obvious advantage the pro-warming group expects to take away from their position is the increase in technology opportunities designed to reduce pollution.
Nothing is accomplished by regurgitating the opinions of conservative, or for that matter, liberal writers pushing an agenda. There is much confusion because of the semantics used by various writers and speakers on the issue. The central question, nonetheless, is: Are humans contributing to the factors that are responsible for climate change and to what level are they responsible for increasing these pollutants?
The next question is: What is the agenda of those who decry global climate change as a fraud? Also, a fair question to ask is the opposite: Is there an agenda beyond the effects of global climate change on the common good that the pro-warming crowd is advocating?
One obvious advantage the pro-warming group expects to take away from their position is the increase in technology opportunities designed to reduce pollution.
Oh Please | 12:33 p.m. May 15, 2008
Huck's forgotten that progressive legislators who listened to people like
Commoner have actually staved off much of those nasty consequences. The Clean
Air Act of 1970 has led to a 95% drop in atmospheric lead, for example, and a
2/3 drop in CO. I hate to think what we might be breathing today if people like
Commoner hadn't spoken up when they did. Rainer Huck might be wheezing a
little himself.
Junk document | 12:42 p.m. May 15, 2008
When journalist David Olinger of the St. Petersburg Times investigated the
Leipzig Declaration, however, he discovered that most of its signers have not
dealt with climate issues at all and none of them is an acknowledged leading
expert. Twenty-five of the signers were TV weathermen - a profession that
requires no in-depth knowledge of climate research. Some did not even have a
college degree, such as Dick Groeber of Dick's Weather Service in
Springfield, Ohio. Did Groeber regard himself as a scientist? "I sort of
consider myself so," he said when asked. "I had two or three years of
college training in the scientific area, and 30 or 40 years of self-study."
Other signers included a dentist, a medical laboratory researcher, a civil
engineer, and an amateur meteorologist. Some were not even found to reside at
the addresses they had given.
BBKing | 1:08 p.m. May 15, 2008
To "Hold on..." I will stack up the truth on the rational side versus
the "truth" on the scare side.
In any case, if I read your post correctly you are confusing issues. There are clearly two issues at play here. The first is that of smart policies. The second is that of the hysteria and marxism surrounding GW.
Having a good policies is just smart. The problem is that so many of the environmental movement people are not about cleaning the world up. They are about control and power. They are more in the real of anti-commercialism and anti-technology. Not all but so many of them.
The simplest test is right here on the Deseret News. When the Dnews prints a story about incredible technology that will save energy, such as fibers that can be woven into every day fabric. These fibers generate electricity as they move. So this sweater, shirt, pants, etc can generate enough electricity by human movement to recharge a cell phone.
When stories like this are printed on the Dnews you NEVER see environmentalists talking about how wonderful it is. That is because they aren't after smart energy. Sadly they are mostly anti-commercialism.
In any case, if I read your post correctly you are confusing issues. There are clearly two issues at play here. The first is that of smart policies. The second is that of the hysteria and marxism surrounding GW.
Having a good policies is just smart. The problem is that so many of the environmental movement people are not about cleaning the world up. They are about control and power. They are more in the real of anti-commercialism and anti-technology. Not all but so many of them.
The simplest test is right here on the Deseret News. When the Dnews prints a story about incredible technology that will save energy, such as fibers that can be woven into every day fabric. These fibers generate electricity as they move. So this sweater, shirt, pants, etc can generate enough electricity by human movement to recharge a cell phone.
When stories like this are printed on the Dnews you NEVER see environmentalists talking about how wonderful it is. That is because they aren't after smart energy. Sadly they are mostly anti-commercialism.
always a boogy-man out there | 2:16 p.m. May 15, 2008
I've been around almost 50 years and if I've learned one thing
it's that there will always be a boogy-man out there. I've seen
bunches of these fad things to be alarmed about come and go, and for some reason
the world has survived even when.
There are more examples of things I was told to be alarmed about than I can cover in 200 words. Some that ocme to mind are:
-Population explosion (baby boom)
-Nuclear powerplants
-Comunists
-Neocons
-Ozone
-Co2
-ElNinyo
-LaNinya
-Ice Age
-Global Warming
-Global climate change
-Every diet I've ever heard of has been both in and out of vogue.
-Every exercise plan that is touted as good today will be harmfull tomorrow.
They're all just fads. When one goes away there will be another to take it's place.
That doesn't mean you should ignore them. Just do what you can but don't be suprised if later it turns out they were bogus alarms.
There are more examples of things I was told to be alarmed about than I can cover in 200 words. Some that ocme to mind are:
-Population explosion (baby boom)
-Nuclear powerplants
-Comunists
-Neocons
-Ozone
-Co2
-ElNinyo
-LaNinya
-Ice Age
-Global Warming
-Global climate change
-Every diet I've ever heard of has been both in and out of vogue.
-Every exercise plan that is touted as good today will be harmfull tomorrow.
They're all just fads. When one goes away there will be another to take it's place.
That doesn't mean you should ignore them. Just do what you can but don't be suprised if later it turns out they were bogus alarms.
Anonymous | 2:49 p.m. May 15, 2008
The only boogey-man I know of is the conservative movement that voted in the
monstrosity we have today for an administration.
Question | 4:17 p.m. May 15, 2008
The same people who thought it was intelligent to vote for Bush seem to be
against climate change. Why do I doubt their logic?
Anonymous | 5:14 p.m. May 15, 2008
The modern American conservative movement is trying its best to run the country
and the environment into the ground -
but the liberal-minded Americans are going about the business of correcting the problems.
but the liberal-minded Americans are going about the business of correcting the problems.
@question | 5:25 p.m. May 15, 2008
Hey bud, let's hope the climate keeps changing. The constant stir and
seasons and winds are what make the planet habitable. Stagnate the weather and
we are all goners. The most important information we need about our planet, is
that every one hundred years, all the humans (nearly)currently living are going
to be dead, so make your tiny stay here worthwhile. Have you little ones, love
them deeply and send them into the future to own the world. PS. I voted for
Bush.
Anonymous | 5:26 p.m. May 15, 2008
Conservative logic:
Vote Republican - no matter what
Vote Republican - no matter what
Enough! | 8:16 p.m. May 15, 2008
Look what following the conservative mindset has given us? These folks have
lived a delusion that has become a personal hell for too many of us. In my
fifty-five-years I have ever seen it worst for those trying to grasp or hold on
to the American dream.
BBKing | 11:05 p.m. May 15, 2008
Malthus was right, only wrong on timeline.
Well, that's a logic one for you. Dr Teacher, I am writing you regarding my final exam. Actually, I was right on the test, I was just wrong on the timeline.
Well, maybe.
The point being, this chicken little routine has been going on as long America has been around.
And Malthus was NOT right. He was not right back then, and he is not right now. We are not running out of resources. Peak oil is not for real as we have more oil reserves identified now than at any time. Read, the new oil fields off of Brazil that rival the middle-east.
You want to talk food shortages as evidence of Malthus? Actually, evidence of extreme, chicken little environmentalism. primary cause of food shortages has been US Federal mandates for ethanol, followed up by socialist subsidies to encourage farmers to convent corn from food and animal feed into junk fuel products. Environmentalists lead the charge to ram that one down the throats of America, and due to the size of our economy the world gets to help pay for it.
Fact is, structured economics has always lead to suffering.
Well, that's a logic one for you. Dr Teacher, I am writing you regarding my final exam. Actually, I was right on the test, I was just wrong on the timeline.
Well, maybe.
The point being, this chicken little routine has been going on as long America has been around.
And Malthus was NOT right. He was not right back then, and he is not right now. We are not running out of resources. Peak oil is not for real as we have more oil reserves identified now than at any time. Read, the new oil fields off of Brazil that rival the middle-east.
You want to talk food shortages as evidence of Malthus? Actually, evidence of extreme, chicken little environmentalism. primary cause of food shortages has been US Federal mandates for ethanol, followed up by socialist subsidies to encourage farmers to convent corn from food and animal feed into junk fuel products. Environmentalists lead the charge to ram that one down the throats of America, and due to the size of our economy the world gets to help pay for it.
Fact is, structured economics has always lead to suffering.
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