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Chairman says Texas CPS workers mistreated FLDS
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To interloper | 8:54 a.m. May 14, 2008
I agree with your posting. There is so much that is not being said in this
article. I am a nurse and worked MHMR for 10 years. There are some truly good
people who work MHMR but there are also many who are very disgruntled about
salaries, benefits, etc. Some MHMR employees have extensive training and others
receive very little. "Mental Health workers" is a very broad term.
Anytime there is an incident such as what is happening in Texas, some people
will always play "Devil's Advocate".
THANK YOU! | 8:57 a.m. May 14, 2008
What a great man to stand up and tell the truth, no matter how unpopular it may
be!!!
just thinking II | 8:56 a.m. May 14, 2008
to Interloper
this is the problem with this issue. we all want to believe what we want. if someone writes for the FLDS then they have an agenda. if someone writes for CPS then all the charges are 100% justified. where is the truth. i have had dealings with flds. i have been in their homes and have seen how the children are treated and how i was treated by the flds members. they are shy aroung strangers. but that does not make them evil. i think the quotes in this article are true of how the flds are. my experience with cps is also true accourding to this article. this is the best article that has been published. good work. please reunite these children with their mothers. cps pull out while you still can. i know this will not happen but i would hope the governer would step in and do something. he won�t but we can hope. after years it will be sorted out. what a black eye for the state of texas.
this is the problem with this issue. we all want to believe what we want. if someone writes for the FLDS then they have an agenda. if someone writes for CPS then all the charges are 100% justified. where is the truth. i have had dealings with flds. i have been in their homes and have seen how the children are treated and how i was treated by the flds members. they are shy aroung strangers. but that does not make them evil. i think the quotes in this article are true of how the flds are. my experience with cps is also true accourding to this article. this is the best article that has been published. good work. please reunite these children with their mothers. cps pull out while you still can. i know this will not happen but i would hope the governer would step in and do something. he won�t but we can hope. after years it will be sorted out. what a black eye for the state of texas.
Comments continue below
Anon | 8:59 a.m. May 14, 2008
Brings to mind a statement I once heard:
"Now we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men."
Guess that can be applied to both sides of this argument.
"Now we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men."
Guess that can be applied to both sides of this argument.
Ray | 9:24 a.m. May 14, 2008
I think the lesson is clear. Next time a 14-year-old girl shows up at a Texas
high school pregnant, we need to sieze her and everyone else in the school, eh?
Now there is precedence, no family in Texas is safe.
Jack from Ark | 9:27 a.m. May 14, 2008
Finally some one coming out to help these unfortunate people. I absolutely do
not condone what they do in there faith but this nonsense has to stop. These
folks at CPS don't need to be fired, the guilty ones need to be brought up
on charges of brutality, of over stepping authority and child abuse. Maybe if
they had a little of their own medicine (like taking their children from them)
they might be a little more compassionate themselves. Just remember That Germany
did exactly the same thing as CPS during the second world war under the guise of
taking care of the children. they harassed the mothers and intimidated the
fathers with arrest. They then started eliminating all the children. Do you
think the CPS would do that to protect their power? These jack booted thugs
have gotten away with this as of now. Now lets all just sit back and do nothing
and we won't be held accountable for this disgusting travesty of justice.
Interesting to the interloper | 9:27 a.m. May 14, 2008
My last post seems to have gotten lost....again..I do support what you are
saying. I am a nurse who worked MHMR for ten years, for the State of Texas.
The term "MHMR workers" is a very broad term. Some of these staff
receive extensive training, others very little. They are still grouped
together. People need to check into the allegations of abuse and neglect that
have been filed against some of these MHMR staff. Their hands are not lily
white by no means. I asked a psychiatrist with MHMR once why they do not do
psychiatric evaluations on people before they are hired. He stated "If we
did, we would have no staff. Some of these staffers have more issues than the
people they are hired to take care of"
To interloper | 9:51 a.m. May 14, 2008
Lets see if this posting gets past the censors. People need to check into the
allegations of abuse that have been filed against MHMR workers before they start
believing all they have to say. Their hands are not lily white.
BBKing | 9:58 a.m. May 14, 2008
"They get their minds made up that they have unlimited power to do what
they want and it's not right."
This should be the final word on the attitude that is running the show in DCFS/CPS.
What most people are not aware of is that the entire Child Protective Services authority is NOT found in criminal law but instead civil law. This means that the normal 'innocent until proven guilty' does not apply. This means that your Constitutional rights are NOT protected.
Remember the Parker Jensen case? He failed a cancer test. The parents wanted a second opinion, the arrogant doctor said No. He wanted to do chemotherapy right then. The parents got a second opinion, which showed No cancer. The doctor was infuriated and called DCFS. The parents ended up having charges of kidnapping for wanting a second medical opinion! In the end, several more tests showed No cancer. Turns out the first test was mishandled, the arrogant doctor was wrong and the parents were right.
The civil court law that governs DCFS/CPS allowed them to charge the parents with the felony crime of kidnapping their own child.
The system is majorly flawed! FLDS case is also flawed!
This should be the final word on the attitude that is running the show in DCFS/CPS.
What most people are not aware of is that the entire Child Protective Services authority is NOT found in criminal law but instead civil law. This means that the normal 'innocent until proven guilty' does not apply. This means that your Constitutional rights are NOT protected.
Remember the Parker Jensen case? He failed a cancer test. The parents wanted a second opinion, the arrogant doctor said No. He wanted to do chemotherapy right then. The parents got a second opinion, which showed No cancer. The doctor was infuriated and called DCFS. The parents ended up having charges of kidnapping for wanting a second medical opinion! In the end, several more tests showed No cancer. Turns out the first test was mishandled, the arrogant doctor was wrong and the parents were right.
The civil court law that governs DCFS/CPS allowed them to charge the parents with the felony crime of kidnapping their own child.
The system is majorly flawed! FLDS case is also flawed!
Distraction | 10:02 a.m. May 14, 2008
If CPS workers mistreated FLDS members while they were in protective custody,
that is inexcusable and, if proven, CPS workers who violated CPS procedures or
broke the law should be held accountable.
That doesn't excuse the FLDS from abusing their children, which is even more inexcusable. If it is proven that the FLDS members sexually abused and/or raped their children, everyone involved, directly or indirectly, should be held accountable.
This story is an unfortunate distraction from the real issue, child abuse.
That doesn't excuse the FLDS from abusing their children, which is even more inexcusable. If it is proven that the FLDS members sexually abused and/or raped their children, everyone involved, directly or indirectly, should be held accountable.
This story is an unfortunate distraction from the real issue, child abuse.
Raymond Takashi Swenson | 10:03 a.m. May 14, 2008
It is clear from these eyewitness accounts that you will be treated better as a
terrorist at Guantanamo Bay than being a 4 year old child held by the State of
Texas Child Protective Services.
Tears | 10:03 a.m. May 14, 2008
I could hardly read this without wiping away a flood of tears.
I do not agree with polygamy nor underage children marrying.
But, this is very sad, I just can't understand this.
I do not agree with polygamy nor underage children marrying.
But, this is very sad, I just can't understand this.
More interesting | 10:16 a.m. May 14, 2008
For what it's worth, I don't think that any of the parties involved in
this fiasco are completely innocent nor do I think that they are all guilty. I
don't think that the FLDS are totally wrong in some of their beliefs, but
then I don't think that CPS would have taken on a case of this magnitude
without having some kind of grounds for doing so. Mistakes have been made by
all parties involved and some more will continue to be made. It has been said
repeatedly that this case is unprecedented. Both parties are trying to work
through tons of legal and moral issues. I don't think that it will end
anytime soon. I think that we all need to stop being so vicious in our postings
and let the courts and the lawyers work this out. Hopefully what's best
for these kids will be the end result.
Las Vegas Guy | 10:28 a.m. May 14, 2008
I have found it very difficult to believe anything that the Texas Government has
said about this whole situation. I have not for 1 second thought that the
mothers of this community were abusive in any way. The Men I can see as being
strict and overbearing and I can even believe some abuse perhaps. But I believe
the State of Texas is reporting lies, lies, lies to help sway Public Opionion in
what they are doing. These women have done nothing to merit them being taken
from their children. If a government agancy attempted to take my kids from me or
my wife for no good reason. They better be packing a lot of heat. The Texas CPS
is sounding a bit like a Communist Division. Hey who's for the Government
telling us how to raise or kids? ef off Texas CPS.
Ax to grind | 10:39 a.m. May 14, 2008
As the FLDS and their supports have complained so much about the CPS motives in
this case, I just wonder if all of John Kight's complaints came simply
because of his neutral observations at the Colliseum, or if many of is his
complaints are based on trumped up charges of trivial incidents because Kight
had a previous ax to grind against the CPS.
Being rude and insensitive to people in such a trying circumstance, though unacceptable, is not against the law.
Child abuse and child rape are.
Being rude and insensitive to people in such a trying circumstance, though unacceptable, is not against the law.
Child abuse and child rape are.
Grandma | 10:47 a.m. May 14, 2008
I intend to give on a regular basis to the FLDS defence fund, and have already
given my first donation. But don't expect the lawyers to save them. It is
only WE THE PEOPLE, who through our outrage and demand for action, will have any
real long-term effect. Boycott all the news organizations that are not telling
the truth (e.g, CNN, etc.). DEMAND action from policitians - don't let
them hide behind the "Best interests of the child" lie any longer.
Send them articles on CPS abuses - email them, write them, fax them, call them.
Barbara Walther's phone number (at least her work number) is available on
the Internet.
LET THESE POWER HUNGRY, CORRUPT, HEARTLESS THUGS AND THEIR SILENT OR VOCAL SUPPORTERS KNOW THAT WE THE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO SIT BY AND WATCH OUR CHILDREN KIDNAPPED AND DESTROYED!
ACT NOW!!!!! They WILL be coming for your children, if we don't do something NOW!
LET THESE POWER HUNGRY, CORRUPT, HEARTLESS THUGS AND THEIR SILENT OR VOCAL SUPPORTERS KNOW THAT WE THE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO SIT BY AND WATCH OUR CHILDREN KIDNAPPED AND DESTROYED!
ACT NOW!!!!! They WILL be coming for your children, if we don't do something NOW!
Vindicated | 11:06 a.m. May 14, 2008
I have posted on this and other sites several times over the past two weeks of
my personal interaction with the FLDS. I have treated their families in my
medical clinic for over 10 years. They are some of the most decent people I
have ever met. I will vouch for the description of how the mothers love their
children. I have watched the way the kids watch out for each other, and for the
manners and respect they show. For the last month, my heart has been ripped out
for them because I know better than to believe the crap being reported about
total abuse in their community. Abuse there is more isolated than in the
general population in my observation.
TEXAS! Free these people NOW!
TEXAS! Free these people NOW!
Bruce | 11:07 a.m. May 14, 2008
Let's see...FLDS is buying some land and moving to our state. We
can't have that..they're different.
Hmmm...let's raise the legal marriage age up 2 years to entrap them, regardless of the fact that we have ghettos and barrios full of underage pregnancies with no marriage intended.
The public is pretty gullible, then we could say "child abuse" (or some other buzzword) and they'll all excuse whatever we do in the name of the childrens "best interest".
We'll let the media and CPS spew out accusations and most of the unthinking public will follow along like good little sheep.
Sincerely,
the great state of Texas
Hmmm...let's raise the legal marriage age up 2 years to entrap them, regardless of the fact that we have ghettos and barrios full of underage pregnancies with no marriage intended.
The public is pretty gullible, then we could say "child abuse" (or some other buzzword) and they'll all excuse whatever we do in the name of the childrens "best interest".
We'll let the media and CPS spew out accusations and most of the unthinking public will follow along like good little sheep.
Sincerely,
the great state of Texas
Re: Grandma | 11:26 a.m. May 14, 2008
Obviously today's designated spokeswoman/man for the increasingly
hysterical (as in "frantic") FLDS propaganda machine.
They continue to ratchet up their rhetoric in order to distract from the real issue, child abuse. Their end goal is to get their children back without any strings attached so that they can continue practicing their beliefs without restriction, even if some of those beliefs promote child abuse and rape.
They continue to ratchet up their rhetoric in order to distract from the real issue, child abuse. Their end goal is to get their children back without any strings attached so that they can continue practicing their beliefs without restriction, even if some of those beliefs promote child abuse and rape.
Vindicated 2 | 11:33 a.m. May 14, 2008
Either it takes forever to have your comments moderated or my last one got lost.
Either way...They way these mothers have conducted themselves is commendable and we truly have much to learn (or remember as it were) about the right way to raise kids, and much to learn about humility in the face of such horrific government abuse. I for one would have come uncorked if CPS raided my home on such flimsy evidence and the second amendment would have been in play.
Either way...They way these mothers have conducted themselves is commendable and we truly have much to learn (or remember as it were) about the right way to raise kids, and much to learn about humility in the face of such horrific government abuse. I for one would have come uncorked if CPS raided my home on such flimsy evidence and the second amendment would have been in play.
Cleanup | 11:40 a.m. May 14, 2008
Today the news is high gas prices, the primary elections and the earthquake in
China but is there anything more important than these little children and their
mothers that were kidnapped and are being abused by the Texas CPS?
Our elected representative need to be aware of your public outrage that this could happen in the United States in 2008. Please do your part and call them.
I'm not FLDS.
We can never accuse Germany again! We have our own guilt now.
Why is our army in Iraq? What are they fighting for when we are doing this damage in this country?
Our elected representative need to be aware of your public outrage that this could happen in the United States in 2008. Please do your part and call them.
I'm not FLDS.
We can never accuse Germany again! We have our own guilt now.
Why is our army in Iraq? What are they fighting for when we are doing this damage in this country?
Rich | 11:49 a.m. May 14, 2008
John Kight is not an expert in constitutional law, just a bureaucrat charged
with administering within a bureaucratic government. Would he rather have
children raised in a polygamous community, which is by definition a community
based on illegal activity in which children are cultivated to continue the
practice of law-breaking, or would he rather have children raised by families
that honor and sustain the law? Society might choose the latter, realizing
there are some sacrifices that might be required to accomplish that end. I
applaud Texas for taking action rather than sticking their heads in the red
sands of southern Utah. Mark Shurtleff is an ostrich.
To Bruce | 11:49 a.m. May 14, 2008
FLDS did buy the land in Eldorado...under false pretenses...The snowball to hell
started then.
Thank you | 11:51 a.m. May 14, 2008
Deseret news for reporting the latest in this case.
Granddad | 11:57 a.m. May 14, 2008
Grandma. I'm not FLDS. But if they come after them, if you are old, you
maybe on the list. How can you be so heartless?
Don't be blinded by 65 year old men, fraud, child abuse, ect. They need to be corrected but right now these babies and their mothers should not be suffering.
Don't be blinded by 65 year old men, fraud, child abuse, ect. They need to be corrected but right now these babies and their mothers should not be suffering.
Anonymous | 12:27 p.m. May 14, 2008
You FLDS people need to learn to spell. It is hard to understand your comments
whenever you are ranting and raving, using really bad spelling. Also the CAPITAL
LETTERING NEEDS TO GO! Too much drama.
The Texan | 12:27 p.m. May 14, 2008
Let's see;
9 unsigned letters from how many people. Hey, wake up people there are over 400+ people assigned and 9 have a problem? Maybe, it's personal.
Stop stooping to gossip and rumors. Either the FLDS have a valid leg to stand on or this rumor mongering is going to bite them where they sit. Grow up, people.
Texas CPS is the greatest.
Hey Grandma (obviosu FLDS poser), abuse was found, that why the courts ordered the action they did. You have dementia or something.
This is stupid.
9 unsigned letters from how many people. Hey, wake up people there are over 400+ people assigned and 9 have a problem? Maybe, it's personal.
Stop stooping to gossip and rumors. Either the FLDS have a valid leg to stand on or this rumor mongering is going to bite them where they sit. Grow up, people.
Texas CPS is the greatest.
Hey Grandma (obviosu FLDS poser), abuse was found, that why the courts ordered the action they did. You have dementia or something.
This is stupid.
Ing | 1:01 p.m. May 14, 2008
"Some sacrifices might be required..."
Some sacrifices are just not worthwhile.
Even if CPS has the best of intentions and the callousness they've been accused of is blown out of proportion, how can anyone say that all of these children will be better off for being suddenly taken away from their parents?
I can't help imagining my own children, 9 and 6 years old, in such a situation. I don't think they'll ever be in that situation, and I would never do anything to put them in it, but as a parent, I can't help but think of how my kids would feel. They would be devastated. They would never recover fully from that. I don't think I would ever recover from it, either.
There's no disputing that the FLDS marriage practices are against the law and considered immoral by the vast majority of society.
I also think there's no disputing that the Texas CPS handled this situation INCREDIBLY poorly. No matter what their motives, I just can't believe that taking more than 400 children away from their parents at the same time is the right response.
Some sacrifices are just not worthwhile.
Even if CPS has the best of intentions and the callousness they've been accused of is blown out of proportion, how can anyone say that all of these children will be better off for being suddenly taken away from their parents?
I can't help imagining my own children, 9 and 6 years old, in such a situation. I don't think they'll ever be in that situation, and I would never do anything to put them in it, but as a parent, I can't help but think of how my kids would feel. They would be devastated. They would never recover fully from that. I don't think I would ever recover from it, either.
There's no disputing that the FLDS marriage practices are against the law and considered immoral by the vast majority of society.
I also think there's no disputing that the Texas CPS handled this situation INCREDIBLY poorly. No matter what their motives, I just can't believe that taking more than 400 children away from their parents at the same time is the right response.
Watcher | 1:15 p.m. May 14, 2008
Respect american tradition and constitution - return the children to their
homes, and THEN begin appropriate prosecutions of any law breakers.
Grandad | 1:30 p.m. May 14, 2008
My Grandma (11.57) should have read "Re Grandma" @ 11:26 am.
I agree wholeheartedly with Watcher 1:15pm
I agree wholeheartedly with Watcher 1:15pm
Obvious | 1:47 p.m. May 14, 2008
What is obvious is the Texas authorities were in over their heads here and some
individuals abused their power. However, the individual hearings will proceed
and most of these kids will be returned to their parents. I suspect the
preteen/teen girls may be separated until they reach 18. But life on the ranch
has changed forever. The numerous posts on this site supporting the FLDS do not
reflect the attitudes around the country. The public sentiment is
overwhelmingly in favor of reigning in these polygamists. They no longer live
in secret. They will have to watch their backs from here on in.
Anonymous | 1:56 p.m. May 14, 2008
Horrific and shameful. Where is the humanity? The basic relationship between a
mother and her child is something every human being should understand.
I can't help but think, "what would I do?" I would die before letting my children be taken away from me. I have small children and I know how much they need me. This is criminal and every American should be ashamed.
I can't help but think, "what would I do?" I would die before letting my children be taken away from me. I have small children and I know how much they need me. This is criminal and every American should be ashamed.
Re: Watcher | 2:04 p.m. May 14, 2008
I don't consider leaving children with abusive parents until the parents
have been tried and convicted of abuse to be an American tradition or
constitutional.
The children have rights too, specifically, the right not to be abused by their parents.
We're not certain that all of the children actually belong to parents living at the ranch, so the state first has to determine the legal parents of each child before the children can be returned.
The children have rights too, specifically, the right not to be abused by their parents.
We're not certain that all of the children actually belong to parents living at the ranch, so the state first has to determine the legal parents of each child before the children can be returned.
God Bless America | 2:06 p.m. May 14, 2008
Do I agree with plural marriage? No. Are these children being raised to be
terrorists? No. Have we allowed government to be our conscience? Yes. Do you
want more government intervention in your lives? Vote for Democrats.
This raid, we now know, was based on false pretenses. Return these people to their homes and let them live in the land of the free and home of the brave. And prosecute those that break the law, whoever it may be.
This raid, we now know, was based on false pretenses. Return these people to their homes and let them live in the land of the free and home of the brave. And prosecute those that break the law, whoever it may be.
Greg | 2:30 p.m. May 14, 2008
To: The Texan
"Hey Grandma (obviosu FLDS poser), abuse was found, that why the courts ordered the action they did. You have dementia or something."
I couldn't have asked for a better expression of Texas bigotry than this.
"Hey Grandma (obviosu FLDS poser), abuse was found, that why the courts ordered the action they did. You have dementia or something."
I couldn't have asked for a better expression of Texas bigotry than this.
magnus | 2:34 p.m. May 14, 2008
@ Axe to Grind
You're right being rude to people you have imprisoned is not a crime.
You know what else isn't a crime? Indoctrinating your children.
But that is what they are now saying is the primary reason they tore these kids away from their families and refuse to give them back.
NOT BECAUSE OF ABUSE, BECAUSE THERE WAS NONE.
NOT BECAUSE THE WHOLE COMMUNITY WAS HAVING SEX WITH MINORS, BECAUSE THAT ONLY JUSTIFIES TAKING A FEW YOUNG GIRLS.
IT IS BECAUSE THEY WHERE INDOCTRINATING THEIR CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!
That my friends is not a slippery slope, that is a cliff. IF CPS can justify this action on the grounds that they "felt that the children where being indoctrinated to be abused and to be abusers" then heaven help us all.
Moreover, if they where worried about the scope, instead of carting them all off to a concentration camp and separating them like cattle, maybe they could have just put the community on house arest until they figured out what was really going on. But hey, that might not have made the news.
You're right being rude to people you have imprisoned is not a crime.
You know what else isn't a crime? Indoctrinating your children.
But that is what they are now saying is the primary reason they tore these kids away from their families and refuse to give them back.
NOT BECAUSE OF ABUSE, BECAUSE THERE WAS NONE.
NOT BECAUSE THE WHOLE COMMUNITY WAS HAVING SEX WITH MINORS, BECAUSE THAT ONLY JUSTIFIES TAKING A FEW YOUNG GIRLS.
IT IS BECAUSE THEY WHERE INDOCTRINATING THEIR CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!
That my friends is not a slippery slope, that is a cliff. IF CPS can justify this action on the grounds that they "felt that the children where being indoctrinated to be abused and to be abusers" then heaven help us all.
Moreover, if they where worried about the scope, instead of carting them all off to a concentration camp and separating them like cattle, maybe they could have just put the community on house arest until they figured out what was really going on. But hey, that might not have made the news.
Algonquin | 2:34 p.m. May 14, 2008
"Who do you root for? And is there a way both sides can lose?"
Well, you root for neither and hope for significant change in both.
Well, you root for neither and hope for significant change in both.
Greg | 2:40 p.m. May 14, 2008
To: Axe to Grind
"Being rude and insensitive to people in such a trying circumstance, though unacceptable, is not against the law."
You're in for a big surprise.
When a governing entity aprehends people and then shows animosity toward them, it is evidence that the aprehension itself was a result of the same animosity.
Texas is in deep and will pay BIG.
"Being rude and insensitive to people in such a trying circumstance, though unacceptable, is not against the law."
You're in for a big surprise.
When a governing entity aprehends people and then shows animosity toward them, it is evidence that the aprehension itself was a result of the same animosity.
Texas is in deep and will pay BIG.
Cindy | 2:49 p.m. May 14, 2008
RE: Obvious | 1:47 p.m. May 14, 2008 said "The numerous posts on this site
supporting the FLDS do not reflect the attitudes around the country. The public
sentiment is overwhelmingly in favor of reigning in these polygamists. They no
longer live in secret. They will have to watch their backs from here on
in."
*********************
Yea, that is what the news and the Government said about the Short Creek Raid and we all see how much it changed the FLDS - not a drop!
Also much of the public sentiment is against the FLDS because the mainstream media is bias. There are few if ANY reports on the women that CPS have now said are adults. Almost no reports on CPS trying to take babies away from these women. NOthing on CNN or FOX about a new mother sleeping on a mattress on the floor with a newborn. Want to keep the public on your side... limit what you tell them. Paint everyone with a wide brush!
*********************
Yea, that is what the news and the Government said about the Short Creek Raid and we all see how much it changed the FLDS - not a drop!
Also much of the public sentiment is against the FLDS because the mainstream media is bias. There are few if ANY reports on the women that CPS have now said are adults. Almost no reports on CPS trying to take babies away from these women. NOthing on CNN or FOX about a new mother sleeping on a mattress on the floor with a newborn. Want to keep the public on your side... limit what you tell them. Paint everyone with a wide brush!
Objectivity | 2:55 p.m. May 14, 2008
How does one look at this situation without judging? Very difficult to do.
Life is a series of choices, and for each choice there are consequences, good and bad. This is nothing more than the Law of Karma at work.
And we see it at work now with this situation: a Karmic rebalancing, nothing more.
No debt goes unpaid in the Universe...
Life is a series of choices, and for each choice there are consequences, good and bad. This is nothing more than the Law of Karma at work.
And we see it at work now with this situation: a Karmic rebalancing, nothing more.
No debt goes unpaid in the Universe...
antizelot | 3:20 p.m. May 14, 2008
Only a sadistic sociopath could possibly think that stealing innocent children
from their parents is ok. PERIOD
SWP | 3:59 p.m. May 14, 2008
Texas is the same State where the Government killed the families and children in
Waco. While I believe that FLDS has an evil philosophy of life, I believe that
there are many organizations that are evil but I do not support government
taking their children and their lives. There has been no due process as to
individual children. This is way it is hard to trust governments.
Oregonian | 4:21 p.m. May 14, 2008
It is time for all good people to stop being silent about this. Please send a
note to Gov. Perry and demand that he put a stop to it and return those children
to their mothers.
Psych Nurse | 4:31 p.m. May 14, 2008
These children under 5 do not have the neurological development to understand
what is going on and they are grieving for their mothers' in the same way
as if their mothers' were dead. The longer these kids stay in this
situation the more damage is being done to them.
Chairman Kite knows this. Please try to find his email address and send him a letter of support in his efforts to reunite these children with their mothers.
Chairman Kite knows this. Please try to find his email address and send him a letter of support in his efforts to reunite these children with their mothers.
David | 4:38 p.m. May 14, 2008
As a retired public agency risk manager (legal liability, safety, insurance,
etc.), my hope is that the state of Texas will face tens of billions of dollars
in civil liability for this unspeakable violation of civil rights and, moreover,
that complicit CPS/police/government personnel will be held criminally
responsible for their illegal actions and will serve hard prison time. Where
are the federal 'authorities' when they are needed the most? Why have
the kidnappers not been arrested?
Granny Relda | 4:51 p.m. May 14, 2008
Interloper, bumblebees can't fly, according to physics. Stuff that in your
pipe, then pipe down. CPS is ALL about the $. Every child entering their system
is accorded a bottomless pocket of Federal dollars. You wanna know why Social
Security is bankrupt, look no farther. CPS is the culprit, nationwide. No
charges will be brought, no social wreckers (or their racketeering partners, the
judges and attys)will be held accountable for the disaster these families are
experiencing. PTSD is a common after-effect following CPS involvement. My
children's therapist says nobody'll do the studies to prove her
theory: children who've been CPS -involved do poorly afterward because of
the trauma of losing their families & entire worlds when they are removed
and placed into fostercare. When a REAL crime is committed, the criminal is
removed to custody, not the putative victim(s). May God bless these families,
ALL of them.
don't get mad | 5:05 p.m. May 14, 2008
get even. Or at least get involved. Google "captive flds children" and
go to the top page. If you look at their side of the story (those videos must
have been shot before their kids were taken away, right ?) and still think they
have a reason to fight, there is a Donate page. Put some money into it,
that's the only way to send a message. If their defense fund grows very
large, it will be noticed. You homeschollers out there, and other odd balls,
these people are setting a precedent in a battle that might be yours tomorrow.
You think your state's agencies are not watching this ? This will tell them
how much they can get away with. This matters. Those folks have no choice in the
matter, they have to fight this (apparent) injustice. You can choose to support
them. And get a few friends to join you. It might be the only way to DO
something. And no, I have nothing to do with FLDS, far from it. I'm all in
favor of prosecuting crimes of abuse. I don't think you need to be FLDS to
be deeply disturbed by this thing.
G | 5:11 p.m. May 14, 2008
"If CPS workers mistreated FLDS members while they were in protective
custody, that is inexcusable and, if proven, CPS workers who violated CPS
procedures or broke the law should be held accountable."
If CPS workers COULD be held accountable these abuses would not have happened.
If CPS workers COULD be held accountable these abuses would not have happened.
Missing the point | 5:36 p.m. May 14, 2008
Sure, this was not handled in the best way possible. Granted, it should have
been planned better, and CPS clearly hadn't done their homework on how they
were going to provide for all these folks...
BUT- these compounds need to be taken down. I have no problem with the LDS church. I have no problems with freedom of speech, religion, etc. I do have problems with the FLDS that consistently flip the bird to the laws of America (laws that the rest of us abide by), consistently manipulate our tax system to their benefit, and consistently abuse children. Those things should be red flags for all Americans. If the FLDS members will abide by the laws of our country, by all means let them live in peace. Until then, I commend Texas for the effort though not the actual execution.
BUT- these compounds need to be taken down. I have no problem with the LDS church. I have no problems with freedom of speech, religion, etc. I do have problems with the FLDS that consistently flip the bird to the laws of America (laws that the rest of us abide by), consistently manipulate our tax system to their benefit, and consistently abuse children. Those things should be red flags for all Americans. If the FLDS members will abide by the laws of our country, by all means let them live in peace. Until then, I commend Texas for the effort though not the actual execution.
Dan | 6:02 p.m. May 14, 2008
I am grateful that some mental health personnel observed these things. When the
lawsuits begin, their testimony will give the FLDS folks some strong ammunition.
Texas is not the only state that has a problem. We had a daughter about 10
years ago that was acting out and was at our request, placed in foster care.
She was thrown out of the Foster parents car while traveling 35 mph and left by
the side of the road. A sweet couple came upon her and call us. She was
injuried with a several bumps on the head, arms, and legs. She was lucky. We
picked her up and took her to the hospital and then home. The state tried to
start trouble, but with the help of a good lawyer, the state backed off and we
forced an investigation. Needless to say, we would never want to see any child
put a state supported agency, that behave in such a manner. Our daughter, is
married and has 5 children and doing well. However, she still does not trust
the authorities. We have a wonderful relationship. So, beware, when the state
says that they are here to help.
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