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FLDS mother declared an adult
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California foster mom | 8:09 p.m. May 13, 2008
Re - "Me" 7:46 PM
I believe I clearly prefaced my original comment by saying it was information only. I don't make the rules, I'm just reporting fact. There seems to be a general lack of information provided to the public about how foster care works. My concern is that by not knowing what is ahead of them the FLDS expectant parents may be taken by surprise once again.
Foster parents don't remove children from their homes and we're not in a position to return them. We're volunteers and often we get calls in the middle of the night to take in children whose parents have been arrested and the children have no where else to go. Or maybe the child has just watched a younger sibling being beaten to death by mom's boyfriend. Foster care isn't just about this case, it's about children who are removed from their homes every day. Without foster parents there aren't a lot of options for these children.
I believe I clearly prefaced my original comment by saying it was information only. I don't make the rules, I'm just reporting fact. There seems to be a general lack of information provided to the public about how foster care works. My concern is that by not knowing what is ahead of them the FLDS expectant parents may be taken by surprise once again.
Foster parents don't remove children from their homes and we're not in a position to return them. We're volunteers and often we get calls in the middle of the night to take in children whose parents have been arrested and the children have no where else to go. Or maybe the child has just watched a younger sibling being beaten to death by mom's boyfriend. Foster care isn't just about this case, it's about children who are removed from their homes every day. Without foster parents there aren't a lot of options for these children.
Samme | 8:10 p.m. May 13, 2008
"What a religion/faith that supports evading the truth at all
costs."
What a government (Texas CPS) that would violate the rights of a religion contrary to the provisions of the US Constitution Bill of Rights.
What a government (Texas CPS) that would violate the rights of a religion contrary to the provisions of the US Constitution Bill of Rights.
Comments continue below
Action | 8:18 p.m. May 13, 2008
It is a horrible thing to take a child away from their mother, both to the child
and the mother. Take the men away if nothing else. What can we do to stand
behind these children so they can be returned back to their mothers? I'm
ready to send emails, letters, phone calls to politicians. Is there anything
that can be done?
to action | 8:29 p.m. May 13, 2008
The Texas Legislature has many members and they have power. Detail CPS abuses of the children and the mothers. Avoid blaiming anyone but the brain washed sociology majors who work for CPS for this travesty.
Sandy & Family | 8:34 p.m. May 13, 2008
We are with you Anynomous. Everyone is listening to the media. They assume the
FLDS folks are lying but God forbid it is their own trusted Agencies and
authorities abusing these children. I am watching this all unfold and being a
parent myself it hurts me to see such pain. We are also christians and this
just isn't right. I didn't think I woke up in a communist country or
Germany this morning but I am starting to wonder about that. We have a dictator
who won't even help these folks and a governor without the courage to stop
this freight train before it goes any further. Where are the CPS checks and
balances? They know this is wrong but they still keep grasping at straws
because they have no case. If we target this group then we need to target all
groups living an alternative lifestyle to what is normal. I mean ANY
alternative lifestyle.
Mike Richards | 8:42 p.m. May 13, 2008
Action,
Write your Senators and your Congressman. Ask them to help. Remind them that more than 450 Citizens of the United States were taken from their mothers without due process. Remind them that they took an oath of office to defend and uphold the Constitution. And then we can watch to see whether those Legislators are more interested in defending the Constitution or whether they're more interested in being popular.
When I wrote my Senators and Congressman today, I did exactly what I've outlined.
This is a hot topic, and some politicians are going to study the polls more carefully than they study the Constitution.
The fact that the FLDS Church is not large and certainly not popular, and the fact that some of the activities within that Church are deplorable and illegal will make some Legislators run and hide; but, true Statesmen know that even unpopular citizens are still citizens. Statesmen know that a mother and her children deserve the same protection under the law as the most vile murderer. We all know that the State has to prove its case in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion.
Write your Senators and your Congressman. Ask them to help. Remind them that more than 450 Citizens of the United States were taken from their mothers without due process. Remind them that they took an oath of office to defend and uphold the Constitution. And then we can watch to see whether those Legislators are more interested in defending the Constitution or whether they're more interested in being popular.
When I wrote my Senators and Congressman today, I did exactly what I've outlined.
This is a hot topic, and some politicians are going to study the polls more carefully than they study the Constitution.
The fact that the FLDS Church is not large and certainly not popular, and the fact that some of the activities within that Church are deplorable and illegal will make some Legislators run and hide; but, true Statesmen know that even unpopular citizens are still citizens. Statesmen know that a mother and her children deserve the same protection under the law as the most vile murderer. We all know that the State has to prove its case in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion.
nvlawyer | 8:52 p.m. May 13, 2008
Bye Bye Constitution, Freedom of Religion and Civil Rights. Hello,
Fatherland.
Underage pregnancies caused by adult men happen every day in the inner-city. I say lock them all up and take their babies because obviously the culture is abusive.
Yeah, like that would happen. Square-root=religious bigotry.
Underage pregnancies caused by adult men happen every day in the inner-city. I say lock them all up and take their babies because obviously the culture is abusive.
Yeah, like that would happen. Square-root=religious bigotry.
A distant memory...The Const. | 10:08 p.m. May 13, 2008
The U.S. Constitution is now just a distant memory...Maybe another generation
that is willing to live the principles and die for the principles that the
Constitution was founded on will rise up and point to our failures and
re-establish the sacred principles enshrined in that inspired document. If we do
not safeguard those principles, for each individual, no matter what race,
religion, or other idiosyncracies they may have, then it is just a piece of
paper.
Mike Richards | 11:05 p.m. May 13, 2008
If the opinions written in the newspaper in San Angelo are any indication, many
people in that area are beginning to realize that Texas greatly overstepped its
authority.
Once the mob mentality dissipated and logic started to be used, it appears that the people started to second-guess their local authorities.
Even here in Utah, where many people are at odds with the FLDS Church, public comment and public sentiment seems to be shifting towards reuniting the children with their families before proceeding to prosecute those who have broken the law.
If our Governor makes a real effort on behalf of any Utah citizens that were taken by the Texas people and if our Senators and Congressmen join with Senators and Congressmen across the nation in demanding that the Constitution be followed, those families will be reunited and Texas will be forced to acknowledge due process as they prosecute illegal activities.
To stay silent when government steps out-of-bounds is to endorse the actions of that government. Writing letters, sending e-mails, and making telephone calls to demand fair and equal treatment of a despised group of people, who are citizens, is the right thing to do.
Once the mob mentality dissipated and logic started to be used, it appears that the people started to second-guess their local authorities.
Even here in Utah, where many people are at odds with the FLDS Church, public comment and public sentiment seems to be shifting towards reuniting the children with their families before proceeding to prosecute those who have broken the law.
If our Governor makes a real effort on behalf of any Utah citizens that were taken by the Texas people and if our Senators and Congressmen join with Senators and Congressmen across the nation in demanding that the Constitution be followed, those families will be reunited and Texas will be forced to acknowledge due process as they prosecute illegal activities.
To stay silent when government steps out-of-bounds is to endorse the actions of that government. Writing letters, sending e-mails, and making telephone calls to demand fair and equal treatment of a despised group of people, who are citizens, is the right thing to do.
oh good grief | 11:26 p.m. May 13, 2008
Look at this society.. We are screaming about a religion that does something
outside of the main stream and yet.. we watch hef and his 3 girl friends on TV
and I wonder who are the sick ones here? Texas will be as sad as the flds one
day. I hope walther fears the Lord.
Professoe H | 12:16 a.m. May 14, 2008
I feel so sorry for the way Texas has treated the FLDS people. These people love
their children. They must be so broken hearted having their children taken away
from them. To a parent, there is something far more important then themselves,
and that is the well-being of their children. How can the authories in one of
our states and some of the general public be so cruel?
howardap | 12:39 a.m. May 14, 2008
Many posts point out that FLDS broke the law and that justifies the removal of
all children. There is a timeline problem with this.
Polygamy has been against the law since the time of Abraham Lincoln. Outlawing polygamy was required for Utah statehood over a hundred years ago. Nonetheless, polygamy has continued to this day. This fact has been well known to anyone interested. This is not something that was just discovered.
So, how does polygamy justify suddenly raiding this isolated group and removing over 400 children. Wouldn�t this have been far better for the children and parents to have worked this through the court system first, giving everyone due process. This would clearly be in the best interest of the children.
CPS says that this was necessary to interrogate the children without the presence of their parents. This was not an incident pertaining to an individual parent where the only evidence is the statement of the victim.
All families should be immediately returned to their homes. The issues here are the teachings and practices of a religion. These issues can be resolved by adults in the courts.
Polygamy has been against the law since the time of Abraham Lincoln. Outlawing polygamy was required for Utah statehood over a hundred years ago. Nonetheless, polygamy has continued to this day. This fact has been well known to anyone interested. This is not something that was just discovered.
So, how does polygamy justify suddenly raiding this isolated group and removing over 400 children. Wouldn�t this have been far better for the children and parents to have worked this through the court system first, giving everyone due process. This would clearly be in the best interest of the children.
CPS says that this was necessary to interrogate the children without the presence of their parents. This was not an incident pertaining to an individual parent where the only evidence is the statement of the victim.
All families should be immediately returned to their homes. The issues here are the teachings and practices of a religion. These issues can be resolved by adults in the courts.
bikerval | 10:06 a.m. May 14, 2008
DNA proves which adult men had sex with underage girls. Arrest them.
And arrest the mothers who stood by and allowed their underage daughters to be raped. And take away ALL their kids. Anyone who follows instructions from a grand pooh-bah to allow their underage daughter to have sex with an adult man is just as liable to follow instructions to throw a Jim Jones style Kool-Aid picnic for the whole family.
Arrest anyone who knew that underage girls were having sex with adult men and didn't report it to the cops. The pious mannerisms of the sect members masks the fact that their core behavior is the same as a group of rowdy guys circled 'round cheering on the rape of a girl too drunk to protest. It doesn't matter if you're thumping the bible or pounding down beers... not stopping what's happening at center stage is criminal. And thus, everyone at that ranch is suspect.
And arrest the mothers who stood by and allowed their underage daughters to be raped. And take away ALL their kids. Anyone who follows instructions from a grand pooh-bah to allow their underage daughter to have sex with an adult man is just as liable to follow instructions to throw a Jim Jones style Kool-Aid picnic for the whole family.
Arrest anyone who knew that underage girls were having sex with adult men and didn't report it to the cops. The pious mannerisms of the sect members masks the fact that their core behavior is the same as a group of rowdy guys circled 'round cheering on the rape of a girl too drunk to protest. It doesn't matter if you're thumping the bible or pounding down beers... not stopping what's happening at center stage is criminal. And thus, everyone at that ranch is suspect.
bikerval | 10:24 a.m. May 14, 2008
To those saying there's teen sex everywhere so why pick on those folks on
the ranch... well, any normal adult man having sex with an underage girl hides
it! They sneak and lie because they know it's wrong. That makes it harder
for cops to catch them.
Meanwhile, the folks at the ranch openly approve of adult men having sex with underage girls. They document the unions. It is an entire environment that actively promotes it and thus no children are safe there.
Meanwhile, the folks at the ranch openly approve of adult men having sex with underage girls. They document the unions. It is an entire environment that actively promotes it and thus no children are safe there.
Disturbed | 10:29 a.m. May 14, 2008
When are the Utah officials going to do anything to protect the Utah citizens
who have been abused by the "Independent Republic" known as Texas?
Obviously Texas feels they can ignore the constitution, but the Elders of Israel were supposed to support it when it hangs by a thread.
Obviously Texas feels they can ignore the constitution, but the Elders of Israel were supposed to support it when it hangs by a thread.
G | 4:49 p.m. May 14, 2008
"If the polygamists want their children, they must agree to stop teaching
them to break the law, which is to marry into polygamy."
TEACHING a belief to one's children is protected by the First Amendment. If Texas really thinks that it is wise to go down this road, it will end in the Supreme Court.
"Something must be done to stop polygamy in its tracks right now. Otherwise, we'll have millions of polygamists in 100 years where now we have just 20,000 or so."
What are you afraid of?
That maybe the "millions of polygamists" would get to vote polygamists into office, who might decide to re-write child custody laws? That some of those polygamists would become CPS caseworkers. And that if the FLDS breeds quickly enough someday CPS will declare monogamy to be an aberrant lifestyle and take your great-great-grandchildren.
An unlikely outcome, I think. But it could theoretically happen since what constitutes proper parenting is really decided more by the dominant culture than by any objective standards. For example, soon circumcision will be considered abuse
and homeschooling is on shaky ground.
I think it would be best for everyone if we started abiding by the Constitution again.
TEACHING a belief to one's children is protected by the First Amendment. If Texas really thinks that it is wise to go down this road, it will end in the Supreme Court.
"Something must be done to stop polygamy in its tracks right now. Otherwise, we'll have millions of polygamists in 100 years where now we have just 20,000 or so."
What are you afraid of?
That maybe the "millions of polygamists" would get to vote polygamists into office, who might decide to re-write child custody laws? That some of those polygamists would become CPS caseworkers. And that if the FLDS breeds quickly enough someday CPS will declare monogamy to be an aberrant lifestyle and take your great-great-grandchildren.
An unlikely outcome, I think. But it could theoretically happen since what constitutes proper parenting is really decided more by the dominant culture than by any objective standards. For example, soon circumcision will be considered abuse
and homeschooling is on shaky ground.
I think it would be best for everyone if we started abiding by the Constitution again.
Thomas | 6:24 p.m. May 17, 2008
The issue is child brides. Apparently, the state of Texas is faced with a real
shortage of child brides. They identified these young women as underage because
they appeared to be young.
Gramma | 6:45 p.m. May 21, 2008
An in-depth investigation into the horrors and abuse of foster care has already
proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that any child placed in foster
"care" will be at far greater risk of drug addiction, suicide,
incarceration, etc.
Anyone who tries to pretend that foster care is a good place for ANY child is either a liar, or likes to see child abused.
Anyone who tries to pretend that foster care is a good place for ANY child is either a liar, or likes to see child abused.
Gramma | 6:49 p.m. May 21, 2008
I guess all the CPS supporters think that the McMartins and the Salem
"witches" deserve to be persecuted too.
People who don't believe in innocence are perverted, twisted, and evil - that's why they don't believe in innocence, because they are guilty, and can't imagine anyone else being innocent (except, of course, CPS). There is undeniable, irrefutable facts showing CPS is a twisted, abusive arm of the government - yet these people persist in supporting it. Why? They are twisted and abusive themselves - that can be the only conclusion.
FREE THE FLDS CHILDREN, NOW.
And have fun paying for the billion dollar lawsuits that the FLDS will win as a result of the inhumanity and stupidity of CPS and the State.
People who don't believe in innocence are perverted, twisted, and evil - that's why they don't believe in innocence, because they are guilty, and can't imagine anyone else being innocent (except, of course, CPS). There is undeniable, irrefutable facts showing CPS is a twisted, abusive arm of the government - yet these people persist in supporting it. Why? They are twisted and abusive themselves - that can be the only conclusion.
FREE THE FLDS CHILDREN, NOW.
And have fun paying for the billion dollar lawsuits that the FLDS will win as a result of the inhumanity and stupidity of CPS and the State.
Gramma | 6:57 p.m. May 21, 2008
ONE ANONYMOUS PHONE CALL. And there goes your child, forever.
It's time to abolish CPS. The misery they have caused the FLDS and thousands of other innocent parents and children is beyond calculation.
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Many of the REAL mothers apparently had THEIR babies taken away by Warren Jeffs and his proxies and are still in Colorado City and Canada. Do you mean return the babies to them?