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'Lost Boys' watch Texas raid from afar
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The solution | 6:07 a.m. May 12, 2008
What do you mean they soon will be able to take care of their own??????
If we eliminate the problem, polygamy, then the children are not in the situation in the first place.
c'mon let's not put a bandaid on the situation. Let's resolve it for good!!!
If we eliminate the problem, polygamy, then the children are not in the situation in the first place.
c'mon let's not put a bandaid on the situation. Let's resolve it for good!!!
Sharon | 7:57 a.m. May 12, 2008
I, for the life of me...can not even comprehend how in the heck, any parent can
turn their back on their children. Then on the other hand, after reading every
thing I can find on the FLDS, watching interviews with ex-members, watching
videos of Warren Jeffs..etc,...I have come to the conclusion...these young boys
are the lucky ones...kind of like a blessing in disguise.
Comments continue below
nauseating | 8:56 a.m. May 12, 2008
The fate of FLDS child "brides" gets the most attention but the lost
boys' stories are equally heartbreaking.
The treatment all these children receive is worse than something from Dickens.
It is nauseating to continue to read FLDS appologist and justifiers on these boards, the depraved indifference to the cruelty these children suffer is beyond comprehension.
The treatment all these children receive is worse than something from Dickens.
It is nauseating to continue to read FLDS appologist and justifiers on these boards, the depraved indifference to the cruelty these children suffer is beyond comprehension.
Poor lost boys | 9:32 a.m. May 12, 2008
The lost boy says that he wasn't abused? But he was cast out and
abandoned! That is abuse!!!! He was so far in it that he can't see the
forest through the trees. Of course he is attached to those that he grew up
with. But they have betrayed him. Abuse.
Concerned for America | 9:35 a.m. May 12, 2008
Two wrongs don't make a right. You don't traumatize small children and
their mothers by ripping them part.
Not cast out | 9:52 a.m. May 12, 2008
He was not cast out. He could not stay because he would not conform to the
rules. He was offered the opportunity but did not take it. Completely normal
behaviour for a teenagers who leave mainstream households in similar numbers.
The more I read about these people, the more I can see why they want to isolate
themselves from the rest of you.
Sharon | 9:54 a.m. May 12, 2008
I couldnt agree more with you...Nauseating.Some of the posts I read here...I
just say to myself..."you have got to be kidding"!!..How in the world
can some posters actually condone the way of life inflicted on these people as
GOOD. I see nothing good about Warren Jeffs controlling mind games. I sure in
the heck cant understand, why Merrill Jessops isnt setting in a cell next to
Jeffs. Hopefully before this is all said and done...he will be. For someone, or
anyone for that matter...who can torment a little baby with water boarding and
see nothing wrong with it...has to be one sorry excuse for a human being !
Ema | 10:14 a.m. May 12, 2008
The story of the Lost Boys is heartbreaking, but it comes down to simple math.
Think about it-- the men in this community/church marry several women and stick
to marrying within their own group. This is not sustainable over a couple
generations, since over time you will end up with a fairly equal number of boys
and girls. There must be more women than men in order to keep practicing
polygamy; therefor, they find accuses to kick out their "excess"
teenage boys. The whole setup is simply horrendous, from the child brides, to
the brainwashing of children, to the Lost Boys.
Matthew | 10:46 a.m. May 12, 2008
Water boarding babies?!?! Where do you people get this stuff? The fact that
these teenage boys are free to rebel and choose to leave puts a lie to the
claims of brainwashing. The FLDS certainly sounds like a strict, conservative
society. I'm not surprised that many young men choose to leave. U.S.
society in general certainly doesn't produce any rebellious young men or
teenagers that runaway. Open your eyes people!
Which is worse, insisting that a young man abide by home rules if he lives there or letting a young man engage in whatever debauchery and rebellion he chooses and doing nothing about it (like so many of these supposedly �good� parents I see all around me in the U.S.). This world isn�t perfect. Nor are any of us parents in it perfect. Everyone needs to look a little more in the mirror and a little less down their noses at other people.
Back to water boarding, I think the same people harping on the ills of the FLDS tend to be the same self-righteous ones that support "W" in his pursuit of water boarding as an acceptable practice. Now there is something to be angry about.
Which is worse, insisting that a young man abide by home rules if he lives there or letting a young man engage in whatever debauchery and rebellion he chooses and doing nothing about it (like so many of these supposedly �good� parents I see all around me in the U.S.). This world isn�t perfect. Nor are any of us parents in it perfect. Everyone needs to look a little more in the mirror and a little less down their noses at other people.
Back to water boarding, I think the same people harping on the ills of the FLDS tend to be the same self-righteous ones that support "W" in his pursuit of water boarding as an acceptable practice. Now there is something to be angry about.
Law-Breakers | 11:55 a.m. May 12, 2008
They have a choice? Do something that you don't believe in or leave.
That's not a choice. That's a lack of options. When parents have
children it is their responsibility to provide for them until they are 18 years
old. Telling your teenage son that he HAS to do something or he's no
longer welcome is NOT parenting. It is AGAINST the law. Then again, so is
having adult relations with a child. Stick up for law-breakers though, they
need the help. Not cast out. Chose to leave. Not an adult. Teenager without
hope. ANGRY!
re: rebellion | 12:06 p.m. May 12, 2008
Parents of rebellious children still have the responsibility to support them.
They still have to see that they are fed, housed, clothed and educated. They
could keep them in their own homes or ship them off to military school, but they
are still responsible for their well-being.
When my younger brother rebelled against my parents religious teaching they didn't drive him to the nearest town and drop him off at a homeless shelter. He lived in our house, ate our food, and was supported through college by my parents. He still doesn't live the way my parents wish he would, but he is always welcome in their home.
These boys never see their families again, have no life skills or education and have to rely on the charity of others to live.
How can you defend that?
When my younger brother rebelled against my parents religious teaching they didn't drive him to the nearest town and drop him off at a homeless shelter. He lived in our house, ate our food, and was supported through college by my parents. He still doesn't live the way my parents wish he would, but he is always welcome in their home.
These boys never see their families again, have no life skills or education and have to rely on the charity of others to live.
How can you defend that?
Svoboda | 12:35 p.m. May 12, 2008
Good for the State of Texas. I think they saw the problem, childre at risk, and
took care of it.
Bruce | 12:37 p.m. May 12, 2008
I sometimes feel like we're not getting the whole story with most of these
young men. If a person has been raised to know what's right, has been
given the opportunities to choose to do what's right, and still refuses...I
think that a parent has the right, and obligation to others in the home, to ask
the young man to go elsewhere until he chooses to live by the rules of the
household.
Lost Girls | 1:43 p.m. May 12, 2008
It's interesting that you never hear about any girls being kicked out of
the FLDS community. That "stay sweet" training program they have for
the girls must be working really well.
Lori | 1:48 p.m. May 12, 2008
I agree with you Concerned for America. Two wrongs don't make a right. You
don't traumatize small children and their mothers by ripping them part.
FLDS needs shakeup & compassion | 2:06 p.m. May 12, 2008
I sincerely feel for the mothers who are having their kids possibly taken away.
However I have to ask myself how do these mothers feel when their young teen
boys are kicked out of the house and out of the community never to be seen
again?
Definately this FLDS community needs a shake up. I just hope it can be done without breaking up their families.
Definately this FLDS community needs a shake up. I just hope it can be done without breaking up their families.
Where are they? | 3:03 p.m. May 12, 2008
I'd like to know--where are the LOST BOYS??? Where are they and what are
they doing? How many are there? We never hear anything to where they really are.
It all looks pretty fishy if you ask me.
wallofvoodoo | 4:35 p.m. May 12, 2008
Kick out a 15 year old Bruce and "Not cast out"? "I feel like
everyone is taking crazy pills!" I bet you don't get the reference.
You can't be serious!
If you have a child with issues, you work with them, love them and give them the support they need to make the right choice. Not kick them out on the street with no money, food, shelter, education or future. That is not a responsible parent. If these donkeys behinds value family so much, why don't they grasp this simple concept.
If anything it shows that the society they live in can't stand up to a challenge. Rather than answering a challange, they simply rid themselves of it and pretend it doesn't exist. Like an employee who chooses to leave and the company treats them like a traitor afterwards.
If you have a child with issues, you work with them, love them and give them the support they need to make the right choice. Not kick them out on the street with no money, food, shelter, education or future. That is not a responsible parent. If these donkeys behinds value family so much, why don't they grasp this simple concept.
If anything it shows that the society they live in can't stand up to a challenge. Rather than answering a challange, they simply rid themselves of it and pretend it doesn't exist. Like an employee who chooses to leave and the company treats them like a traitor afterwards.
realitycheck | 4:47 p.m. May 12, 2008
It's one thing to have some rules and structure in your house... It's
another when you force a prison-like structure upon a child and kick them out if
they make one mistake.
I would have no problem if the FLDS would:
1 - stop marrying off teens to their relatives and let them choose their mate (this isn't afganistan).
2 - provide them with the tools to survive on their own if they choose to leave (just like the rest of us do).
3 - don't lock them behind 10 ft walls and a guardtower.
4 - stop kicking out boys and men and re-assigning their families to their brothers, etc.
I mean, COME ON!!!! How stupid is this? I read what I just wrote above and I'm thinking - why do these people lack even basic common sense? Perhaps if they would do what's RIGHT instead of what some idiot (that thinks he's a prophet - lol) is telling them to do, then they would be ok. No one cares that they dress differently - just that they care for all their children, not just the ones that they want to marry to their cousin. So crazy....
I would have no problem if the FLDS would:
1 - stop marrying off teens to their relatives and let them choose their mate (this isn't afganistan).
2 - provide them with the tools to survive on their own if they choose to leave (just like the rest of us do).
3 - don't lock them behind 10 ft walls and a guardtower.
4 - stop kicking out boys and men and re-assigning their families to their brothers, etc.
I mean, COME ON!!!! How stupid is this? I read what I just wrote above and I'm thinking - why do these people lack even basic common sense? Perhaps if they would do what's RIGHT instead of what some idiot (that thinks he's a prophet - lol) is telling them to do, then they would be ok. No one cares that they dress differently - just that they care for all their children, not just the ones that they want to marry to their cousin. So crazy....
I need some one to Blame | 5:15 p.m. May 12, 2008
Why couldn�t I have been born into a Minority hated group
so I would have someone to Blame all my Problems on, all I can say to all you
"lost boys" is Grow up!!!
Lost Boy | 5:39 p.m. May 12, 2008
I was raised in SLC and attended Alta Academy under Warren. I've been out
for just over 10 years. I also wish there was something like the house off
Bluff when I left. I don't see why I need to define myself by my past. I
am a person who's trying to find his place in life, just like most people.
I'm pretty sure that there are messed up people in every religion. If there was abuse in a Mormon community I'm pretty sure that the government wouldn't swoop in and take all the children in the community out forcefully.
Ending polygamy will not solve the problem. Abuse happens all over the world in and out of religions. I don't mean to minimize abuse. No matter what religion or political position someone holds they should be held accountable for their actions.
Also, I think it is sad if anyone goes against better judgment because anyone (prophet, boss, government, parent, advertisement) tells them to choose as such. It takes strength to go against the norm. I don't know of any motives for the expulsion of these boys or girls... I just know it is a hard road on both sides.
I'm pretty sure that there are messed up people in every religion. If there was abuse in a Mormon community I'm pretty sure that the government wouldn't swoop in and take all the children in the community out forcefully.
Ending polygamy will not solve the problem. Abuse happens all over the world in and out of religions. I don't mean to minimize abuse. No matter what religion or political position someone holds they should be held accountable for their actions.
Also, I think it is sad if anyone goes against better judgment because anyone (prophet, boss, government, parent, advertisement) tells them to choose as such. It takes strength to go against the norm. I don't know of any motives for the expulsion of these boys or girls... I just know it is a hard road on both sides.
G | 7:11 p.m. May 12, 2008
"I don't think it's right to take all their kids away, even if
it's one case of abuse � if there's even
that," said Simon, who was asked to leave Short Creek (the name for Hildale
and Colorado City). "I really don't think there's as much abuse
as they say there is. I mean, I wasn't abused.""
Of course most of the media isn't going to report this person's opinion because it doesn't bring in ratings like waterboarding babies does.
Of course most of the media isn't going to report this person's opinion because it doesn't bring in ratings like waterboarding babies does.
Lost Boy | 7:21 p.m. May 12, 2008
I don't need someone to blame for my problems. Life is what it is. I know
for a fact that you don't have to be part of a "hated minority
group" to play victim to your circumstances. These boys aren't asking
for much besides a safe place to get their feet under them. I don't see the
Lost Boys trying to throw blame for their problems anywhere. They are getting
some help through some difficult times in their life, accepting a helping hand
from a community and individuals who are offering their help. I would like to
see more programs out there geared towards solutions. Everyone can use a helping
hand at some point in their lives. Why begrudge these young men the assistance
that is being offered willingly??? It wasn't available to me at hard times
in my life... but I'm not bitter about it.
Lost Boy | 7:56 p.m. May 12, 2008
G... I agree. I know of several people who have done interviews (for other
media) that were not used because they didn't tell tales of water boarding
babies, incest or the like. The article here actually is pretty good. I know
Matt Bauer personally and I know that the reporters did a great job of being
true to the interview.
To answer the question of where are the "lost boys" (commonly known term) and what do they do and how many are there...
I've lived in Utah (I guess that's a "duh"), Arizona, Idaho and California.
I have a job, pay bills, hang out with friends, read, play video games, camp... and the list goes on. People that I have contact with from there have similar stories. Sorry to disappoint you if there was something bizzare that you expected.
How many... a BUNCH... Give or take a few.
To answer the question of where are the "lost boys" (commonly known term) and what do they do and how many are there...
I've lived in Utah (I guess that's a "duh"), Arizona, Idaho and California.
I have a job, pay bills, hang out with friends, read, play video games, camp... and the list goes on. People that I have contact with from there have similar stories. Sorry to disappoint you if there was something bizzare that you expected.
How many... a BUNCH... Give or take a few.
Lost boys? | 8:52 p.m. May 12, 2008
Lost in a lost world.
Overly harsh | 9:25 p.m. May 12, 2008
The parents kicked out the kid because he stayed out too late and refused to be
brainwashed. His overly strict parents did him a favor. I wonder if this lost
boy committed these minor infractions to get a free ticket out of that messed up
lifestyle.
MadSci | 11:33 p.m. May 12, 2008
If the church kicks out a married man, his harem stays in the church and is
"reassigned". If one of those wives is then kicked out, the children
are kept in the harem. That means that the church separates biological parents
from their children.
Would the parents try to get them back? Probably. Where would the church likely put them? I'm guessing a fortress. How big were the wall at YFZ? 10 foot?
If this theory is correct, then the genetic evidence from the Texas case will show that some number of the kids (I'll guess at least 20) don't correspond to any adults at the ranch. My question to those of you who defend these people is this: if any of these kids don't belong to the people taking care of them, would you support prosecuting the church for kidnapping? Does the church have the right to take kids from their parents?
Would the parents try to get them back? Probably. Where would the church likely put them? I'm guessing a fortress. How big were the wall at YFZ? 10 foot?
If this theory is correct, then the genetic evidence from the Texas case will show that some number of the kids (I'll guess at least 20) don't correspond to any adults at the ranch. My question to those of you who defend these people is this: if any of these kids don't belong to the people taking care of them, would you support prosecuting the church for kidnapping? Does the church have the right to take kids from their parents?
a | 12:24 a.m. May 13, 2008
i have a lot of friends who ran away from home from every religion out there.
the people of this world need to search for more truth about the lost boys
before they think they are picked on. by the way if you are not former flds, can
you not join the lost boys? how many of these boys ran away because they did
crimes they shouldn't have and just claim they were kicked out (like Flora
May did, her being a child bride was her own choice, she went and found the
boy).
crazy people | 8:57 a.m. May 13, 2008
I left home when I was 13 simply because I didn't like being told what to
do - my bad. But I went back home, joined the navy, got my education, and now
I'm very happy and am a good citizen - and have a good relationship w my
parents. Kids are resilient with a support system.
But when the parents turn their backs on their kids forever and won't even acknowledge them unless they pray 50 times a day, well thats just stupid.
These people don't care about their kids unless they do exactly what the parents say and are TOTALLY adherent to their religion. So they care more about their religion than they care about their kids. That means they are brainwashed sheep and true idiots.
Hear me, FLDS and supporters? we think you are brainless sheep following a crazy prophet at the expense of your children and their future. So don't bother trying for our sympathy - you've shown your true colors and they are ugly, mean, cruel, and uncaring. You don't deserve children, and they don't deserve the hopeless fate you have in store for them.
But when the parents turn their backs on their kids forever and won't even acknowledge them unless they pray 50 times a day, well thats just stupid.
These people don't care about their kids unless they do exactly what the parents say and are TOTALLY adherent to their religion. So they care more about their religion than they care about their kids. That means they are brainwashed sheep and true idiots.
Hear me, FLDS and supporters? we think you are brainless sheep following a crazy prophet at the expense of your children and their future. So don't bother trying for our sympathy - you've shown your true colors and they are ugly, mean, cruel, and uncaring. You don't deserve children, and they don't deserve the hopeless fate you have in store for them.
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Andrew Black, left, stands in a kitchen with "house daddy" Matt Bauer at the House Just Off Bluff in St. George. Both are former members of polygamous communities. Bauer helps teen boys transition to the outside world.
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How is it that the FLDS church has amassed millions of dollars but no money can be spent on preparing boys for life outside of the sect? How is it that parents care so little for their underage sons that they can simply abandon them? Why have they not taken on the responsibility to prepare these boys for life outside of the church? Forcing underage children out of their community for coming in late from a movie is like giving the death penalty to someone who forges a check. This is just one more piece of evidence that the church is more important to these parents then the welfare of their children. When they gave birth to these children, they took on a responsibility to love, educate and meet their other needs until they were 18. And once again, society is left holding the bag. Society has to deal with all of the fallout resulting from FLDS poor parenting.