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Ex-FLDS member exploring custody solutions
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Anon. | 2:14 a.m. May 12, 2008
They can blame Warren Jeffs if they want to, but the real culprit is delusional
thinking.
Buttons` | 5:23 a.m. May 12, 2008
Thank you Dr. Fischer. I live here in Texas and it is extremely interesting and
hard. The stories are even scary. Good Luck Dr. Fischer
Comments continue below
WOW | 6:01 a.m. May 12, 2008
I wonder, if Mr. Fischer only left the group about 10 years ago, how many of the
children and women there are his if any????
Maybe if Texas is successful, and even if they are not, Utah will do something about the polygamist issue there.
I am in my 40's. I knew polygamy was going on in Utah in my junior high days... It's past time Utah did something about it.
The children deserve a future; a future not starting with marriage to a man old enough to be their grandfather or father.
Maybe if Texas is successful, and even if they are not, Utah will do something about the polygamist issue there.
I am in my 40's. I knew polygamy was going on in Utah in my junior high days... It's past time Utah did something about it.
The children deserve a future; a future not starting with marriage to a man old enough to be their grandfather or father.
Thomas | 6:12 a.m. May 12, 2008
The culprit here is CPs and its unjustified seizure of innocent children. any
assertion that a child might be forced into an underage marriage in the future
is not good enough.
Anonymous | 6:29 a.m. May 12, 2008
It takes a brave man to even consider doing what you do for these families. I
hope that the people of the FLDS eventually are able to see their so called
prophet for what he really is. Nowhere on these postings have I seen any
comments regarding to the fact that this organization condones the exploitation
of women and children. My prayers are with you and others who are trying to do
the "right" thing.
Anonymous | 6:36 a.m. May 12, 2008
Dan Fischer is in a position similar to that of many who have left the LDS
Church, (as well as from others). Their affection and concern for their friends
and kin who remain in the religion of their past is close to the surface.
That he steps forward now displays character, integrity and charity that never fails when the spirit rises above the letter of the law...
That he steps forward now displays character, integrity and charity that never fails when the spirit rises above the letter of the law...
Roger | 6:50 a.m. May 12, 2008
How commendable that Dan Fischer has empathy for those who remain in their
delusion. Many here relate... Charity, never faileth
Michigander | 6:55 a.m. May 12, 2008
A good move. The FLDS is reaching out to the apostates.
It means that they are understanding it's not business as usual. The only thing that is a question, do all apostates have given up on Warren Jeffs, just because he kicked them out, or are they still hoping to be forgiven and taken back into the fold? Real vetting needs to take place, to make sure that the people who might be allowed to take in children from Eldorado are living within acceptable standards of CPS, to break the artificial 'keep sweet' mold.
It means that they are understanding it's not business as usual. The only thing that is a question, do all apostates have given up on Warren Jeffs, just because he kicked them out, or are they still hoping to be forgiven and taken back into the fold? Real vetting needs to take place, to make sure that the people who might be allowed to take in children from Eldorado are living within acceptable standards of CPS, to break the artificial 'keep sweet' mold.
To Thomas | 6:55 a.m. May 12, 2008
The culprit here is Warren Jeffs. It was ok for him to send these people to
Eldorado, even though some of them were kids who were taken away from their
families in Utah and Arizona. As I've said before, abuse and neglect
depends on who is doing it. What CPS did was justified. They had an allegation
and they followed up on it. If they hadn't investigated, more people would
have been howling on here about what they didn't do.I think that there are
more concerns than if a child might be forced into an underage marriage in the
future.
To Thomas | 7:12 a.m. May 12, 2008
So you also believe that all children around the country should be returned to
their parents even though there is reason to believe (such as continued drug use
or mental illness) will beat, rape, and kill their children in the future? If
this be the case, heaven help all of the children because the concept of
PROTECTION (the middle word in CPS) is for naught.
Thomas, in order to stop abuse, you have prevent abuse, not just pick up the pieces AFTER a child has been abused. If you can show that a parent HAS abused, you MUST change the situation to PROTECT the child from FURTHER abuse.
Thomas, in order to stop abuse, you have prevent abuse, not just pick up the pieces AFTER a child has been abused. If you can show that a parent HAS abused, you MUST change the situation to PROTECT the child from FURTHER abuse.
Re: Thomas | 7:13 a.m. May 12, 2008
"The culprit here is CPs and its unjustified seizure of innocent
children."
Wishful thinking on the part of "Thomas" and his ilk that the children will be returned and they can go back to business as usual.
The real culprits are the FLDS men who so willingly followed the illegal edicts of the deranged Warren Jeffs in sexually abusing young girls.
It's time the FLDS leaders and men woke up and realized that the rest of the world now knows what they've been doing and they'll never again be able to use their so-called relgious beliefs as cover for abusing their children.
It's time for the FLDS men to start acting like real men, take responsibility for the abuse they've committed, and start putting the needs of their wives and children first.
Wishful thinking on the part of "Thomas" and his ilk that the children will be returned and they can go back to business as usual.
The real culprits are the FLDS men who so willingly followed the illegal edicts of the deranged Warren Jeffs in sexually abusing young girls.
It's time the FLDS leaders and men woke up and realized that the rest of the world now knows what they've been doing and they'll never again be able to use their so-called relgious beliefs as cover for abusing their children.
It's time for the FLDS men to start acting like real men, take responsibility for the abuse they've committed, and start putting the needs of their wives and children first.
Denny Andrews | 7:13 a.m. May 12, 2008
Interesting word "custody". Kind of sounds like the situation the kids
were rescued from. That and "ownership".
Go texas.
Go texas.
Good Luck to Dan | 7:37 a.m. May 12, 2008
Dan Fischer is a good man to do this. I wish him well. It's great to see
that the majority of posters on this thread are well-wishers and hopeful for
positive change within the FLDS culture. They don't have to give up their
core beliefs in principle, but they do need to give up the notion that they have
no agency (that God has always been so careful to preserve) in order to enter
heaven. And they do not have to give their daughters and wives to be passed
around like table salt. And they need to change to a law-abliding society. That
may take some work.
David S; Re Thomas | 8:05 a.m. May 12, 2008
In the spirit of prevention, CPS should go after, and should only go after,
those specific men suspected of abusing young girls--based on evidence. There
is no question putting a few men behind bars would deter future abuse.
But for CPS to take all the children regardless of the complete lack of evidence of crime on the part of many parents is heartless, illegal, and only paints CPS in the worst light because it is going beyond reasonable prevention.
Having said that, the FLDS men who know they are guilty of underage marriage should present themselves as ransom in this hostage situation so the innocent children can be returned to the parents who are innocent.
But for CPS to take all the children regardless of the complete lack of evidence of crime on the part of many parents is heartless, illegal, and only paints CPS in the worst light because it is going beyond reasonable prevention.
Having said that, the FLDS men who know they are guilty of underage marriage should present themselves as ransom in this hostage situation so the innocent children can be returned to the parents who are innocent.
Vision | 8:22 a.m. May 12, 2008
Imagine 50 years into the future. The FLDS will have grown to several hundred
thousand members; Warren Jeffs will be revered as a Prophet of God who "has
done more save Jesus only for the salvation of men"; these women and
children will be revered as "pioneers" and "martyrs" who
sacrificed their comforts, liberties, and lives for the "cause of
Zion."
Can't you see it?
If not, just re-read the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Joseph Smith was no different then than Warren Jeffs is today. And just as the persecution of the early LDS Church actually stimulated strength and growth, so the persecution of the FLDS will do the same.
Can't you see it?
If not, just re-read the early history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Joseph Smith was no different then than Warren Jeffs is today. And just as the persecution of the early LDS Church actually stimulated strength and growth, so the persecution of the FLDS will do the same.
Anonymous | 8:26 a.m. May 12, 2008
Why is Warren Jeffs the culprit of FLDS suffering and persecution today, but
Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and others are NOT considered to be
"culprits" of the suffering and deaths of early LDS pioneers and
saints? Sounds like a double standard LDS people invoke against the FLDS
polygamists. And it sounds like hypocrisy.
Re Vision | 8:40 a.m. May 12, 2008
Wrongo ranger. Warren Jeffs is a nutcase of the first degree. Joseph Smith was
a monder-day prophet. BIG DIFFERENCE. I think what Dr. Fischer is doing is
great. The state of Texas has a huge problem on it's hands, and the
possiblity of some serious civil rights violations, at best.
You cannot lump FLDS and LDS into one box. That would be like me trying to tie KKK with the Southern Baptists, just because they shooted off of them, to avoid seggreation.
You cannot lump FLDS and LDS into one box. That would be like me trying to tie KKK with the Southern Baptists, just because they shooted off of them, to avoid seggreation.
R U Kidding? | 9:03 a.m. May 12, 2008
Can't believe some people are still using the term "modern day
prophet" for people like Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Warren jeffs, etc.
You really believe that God came down and actually spoke to these people? Come
on - you have got to be kidding me. That's like the Catholics believing in
talking snakes or that the pope is holier than you or I...
Has it occurred to you that maybe either they had a dream and ran with it (and it was just a dream) or, more probable, they realized that they could control people through their faith and made it all up so people would worship them?
You can have whatever faith you want, but let's at least try to keep it within reality. Sure there may be a gretaer power that we should all look up to, but no one came and spoke to these people. You're worshiping false idols if you trust these men.
And Texas did the right thing getting those people out of that cult. FREE THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN. LOCK THE ABUSERS UP.
Has it occurred to you that maybe either they had a dream and ran with it (and it was just a dream) or, more probable, they realized that they could control people through their faith and made it all up so people would worship them?
You can have whatever faith you want, but let's at least try to keep it within reality. Sure there may be a gretaer power that we should all look up to, but no one came and spoke to these people. You're worshiping false idols if you trust these men.
And Texas did the right thing getting those people out of that cult. FREE THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN. LOCK THE ABUSERS UP.
Delusional | 9:06 a.m. May 12, 2008
To: Vision and Anonymous
Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, called by the Lord Himself to usher in the last dispensation. He will continue to have both good and evil spoken of him throughout history.
Warren Jeffs has admitted that he is a false prophet. He is a misguided and soon-to-be forgotten leader by his own people.
Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, called by the Lord Himself to usher in the last dispensation. He will continue to have both good and evil spoken of him throughout history.
Warren Jeffs has admitted that he is a false prophet. He is a misguided and soon-to-be forgotten leader by his own people.
avengeance | 9:19 a.m. May 12, 2008
Many Catholics do believe that the priests, bishops, and the Pope are all the
deliverers of God's message on Earth. All Christians regard Jesus as
either God, the Son of God, or at the very least, a prophet of God. To CPS,
that makes them all dangerous.
If only they had "proof" of "systematic abuse". Ah yes- infant boy genital mutilation! It's not just spoken of in their religious texts, but is still performed to this day!
Time to snatch up all the poor, indoctrinated, Christian boys and girls and deprogram them away from believing in silly old fairy tales of imaginary bearded men in the sky. Remove thoughts of "god" and "prophet" from their little minds, and train them to believe that government is their only god, and all else is fiction and fantasy.
If only they had "proof" of "systematic abuse". Ah yes- infant boy genital mutilation! It's not just spoken of in their religious texts, but is still performed to this day!
Time to snatch up all the poor, indoctrinated, Christian boys and girls and deprogram them away from believing in silly old fairy tales of imaginary bearded men in the sky. Remove thoughts of "god" and "prophet" from their little minds, and train them to believe that government is their only god, and all else is fiction and fantasy.
to RU Kidding | 9:21 a.m. May 12, 2008
Yea, I beleive that Joseph Smith is/was a true prophet. Warren Jess is NOT.
Anonymous | 9:30 a.m. May 12, 2008
RU seems to speak from a position of blissful ignorance. Dr. Fischer is a good
man doing good work. Charity never faileth . . .
Wolf? | 9:35 a.m. May 12, 2008
Has anyone concidered that Dan Fischer is a "wolf in sheeps clothing?"
Look up some of the other articles he has done in the media to "help the
FLDS." He helps renegade boys that would not stop crousing around the
community, drinking, doing drugs,etc. No parents would uphold teenagers in that
unless they were in it themselves.
Samme | 9:38 a.m. May 12, 2008
**The culprit here is Warren Jeffs. It was ok for him to send these people to
Eldorado, even though some of them were kids who were taken away from their
families in Utah and Arizona.**
Jeffs sent them to Texas because the marriageable age there for 14... and they could marry older men. Texas surprised them and changed the law in 2005.
It still is a puzzlement as to why 14 year old Texans could marry but not if you're FLDS.
Jeffs sent them to Texas because the marriageable age there for 14... and they could marry older men. Texas surprised them and changed the law in 2005.
It still is a puzzlement as to why 14 year old Texans could marry but not if you're FLDS.
Prosecutor | 9:39 a.m. May 12, 2008
Vision and Anonymous:
Warren Jeffs and Brothers Joseph and Brigham are not just dissimilar -- they are polar opposites.
Jeffs openly defies God -- Joseph and Brigham humbly submitted to His will.
Jeffs uses fear to shame or bully people into bending to his perverted will -- Joseph and Brigham were content to teach corrrect principles and permit people to govern themselves.
Most importantly, Jeffs is a pathic poser -- Brothers Joseph and Brigham are prophets of the living God.
Warren Jeffs and Brothers Joseph and Brigham are not just dissimilar -- they are polar opposites.
Jeffs openly defies God -- Joseph and Brigham humbly submitted to His will.
Jeffs uses fear to shame or bully people into bending to his perverted will -- Joseph and Brigham were content to teach corrrect principles and permit people to govern themselves.
Most importantly, Jeffs is a pathic poser -- Brothers Joseph and Brigham are prophets of the living God.
Judy | 9:40 a.m. May 12, 2008
I find it very sad that a discussion of someone offering assistance in this
situation devolves into yet another discussion of "who is a prophet?"
The problem is abuse. Not who married whom at what age 100 years ago but who is
abusing whom today and who is at risk for abuse in the foreseeable future.
wyogirl | 9:41 a.m. May 12, 2008
back to topic: This man Dr. Fischer is doing a great thing. I admire him for
helping all those boys who have been kicked out over the years - that could not
have been easy.
If these FLDS men would stand up and take accountability for their actions, their children, and their wives - their "religion" would be accepted. They may have to do some time in jail for their crimes, but hopefully they would learn from this and remember that if the doctrine of "plural marriage" is what is really important to them, then all the other nonsense - secrecy, welfare fraud, child brides, child labor and child abandonment is just preventing them from being able to live peacefully in the way they want.
Even though many (me included) hate the idea of one man marrying many women, I don't think that many in this country would judge them as harshly is we knew they obeyed the laws of the land, didn't control their members with fear and manipulation, allowed women and children to receive an education, and supported their large families with their own money - not ours.
This is not religious persecution, it is abuse prevention
If these FLDS men would stand up and take accountability for their actions, their children, and their wives - their "religion" would be accepted. They may have to do some time in jail for their crimes, but hopefully they would learn from this and remember that if the doctrine of "plural marriage" is what is really important to them, then all the other nonsense - secrecy, welfare fraud, child brides, child labor and child abandonment is just preventing them from being able to live peacefully in the way they want.
Even though many (me included) hate the idea of one man marrying many women, I don't think that many in this country would judge them as harshly is we knew they obeyed the laws of the land, didn't control their members with fear and manipulation, allowed women and children to receive an education, and supported their large families with their own money - not ours.
This is not religious persecution, it is abuse prevention
Michael | 9:46 a.m. May 12, 2008
**And they do not have to give their daughters and wives to be passed around
like table salt. And they need to change to a law-abliding society.**
Passing wives around? What's so wrong about that? Folks in Hollywood do it regularly. Some even get divorced first. And they have the admiration of the world.
Passing wives around? What's so wrong about that? Folks in Hollywood do it regularly. Some even get divorced first. And they have the admiration of the world.
Anonymous | 9:48 a.m. May 12, 2008
I believe that Joseph Smith was basically a con artist who was very charimatic.
Seems like he had "revelations" on what would profit him the most.
Too bad some of these prophet wannabes don't go to Missouri or Illinois.
If you read anything at all, you will know why they settled in Utah.
Longtooth | 9:53 a.m. May 12, 2008
FLDS and LDS share a common commitment to be obedient to the Prophet, when the
Prophet speaks the debate is over. The Prophet will never lead you astray. The
FLDS currently follow a different Prophet than do the LDS, but both share the
same Prophets up to Wilford Woodruff.
When you objectively read the pronouncements of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor regarding the necessity of practicing Polygamy there is no question that it was a never to be changed or abandoned gospel principal. It seems very disingenuous for believing LDS to be so judgmental and holier than thou toward the FLDS. The FLDS are the ones who have stayed true to the directions of Mormonism�s founders.
Both groups need to realize that when you turn your mind and heart over to another person the possibility exists of being subjected to goofy ideas not in your best interest. You can be obedient and follow the Prophet but you suffer the consequence by your self.
When you objectively read the pronouncements of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and John Taylor regarding the necessity of practicing Polygamy there is no question that it was a never to be changed or abandoned gospel principal. It seems very disingenuous for believing LDS to be so judgmental and holier than thou toward the FLDS. The FLDS are the ones who have stayed true to the directions of Mormonism�s founders.
Both groups need to realize that when you turn your mind and heart over to another person the possibility exists of being subjected to goofy ideas not in your best interest. You can be obedient and follow the Prophet but you suffer the consequence by your self.
to Sammee | 9:56 a.m. May 12, 2008
The law in Texas allowed 14 yr. olds to "legally" marry at 14 with a
parent's permission. None of these so called "celestial
marriages" are legal. They apparently only legally marry one woman. I
would think that until the law changed that they could have married at 14...but
only to one person. Polygamy is polygamy.
To Sammee | 10:08 a.m. May 12, 2008
.I've read that part of the reason that Jeffs sent people to Texas was
because he was trying to have a race of "perfect people." He
supposedly sent the ones that he considers the most loyal to him. Also the FLDS
allegedly have lawsuits against them in Arizona and Utah. So I guess he decided
it was time to clear out. Listen to some of the comments that his sister has
made about him...Very interesting.
FRIEND OF DAN FISHER | 10:07 a.m. May 12, 2008
MAKE NO MISTAKE OF THE CHARACTER OF DAN FISHER. THIS
MAN HAS BEEN A GREAT HUMANITARIAN FOR MANY YEARS. HE
HAS TRAVELED ALL OVER THE WORLD AND PROVIDED DENTAL
CARE TO PEOPLE IN THIRD WORLD NATIONS THAT OTHERWISE
WOULD NEVER RECEIVE ANY CARE. AND, HE HAS DONE THIS
AT HIS OWN EXPENSE. ALL OF HIS CHILDREN ARE CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS TO SOCIETY. MOST GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE IN RECORD TIME. FOR MANY YEARS HE HAS GIVEN JOBS TO FLDS KIDS THAT WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE NO LIFE AHEAD OF THEM.
BESIDES BEING A GOOD BUSINESS MAN, HE IS A MAN WITH
A KIND HEART THAT TRULY CARES FOR PEOPLE. NEXT TIME
YOU SEE YOUR DENTIST, ASK HOW MANY OF THE PRODUCTS
CAME FROM ULTRADENT. HIS RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT IN
THIS FIELD HAS PROVIDED THE WORLD OVER WITH NEW AND BETTER DENTAL CARE THAN EVER BEFORE.
I FOR ONE CAN THINK OF NO ONE ELSE THAT IS CAPABLE
OF FINDING A LONG TERM SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEMS IN
TEXAS. GOD BLESS DAN FISHER.
MAN HAS BEEN A GREAT HUMANITARIAN FOR MANY YEARS. HE
HAS TRAVELED ALL OVER THE WORLD AND PROVIDED DENTAL
CARE TO PEOPLE IN THIRD WORLD NATIONS THAT OTHERWISE
WOULD NEVER RECEIVE ANY CARE. AND, HE HAS DONE THIS
AT HIS OWN EXPENSE. ALL OF HIS CHILDREN ARE CONTRIBUTING MEMBERS TO SOCIETY. MOST GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE IN RECORD TIME. FOR MANY YEARS HE HAS GIVEN JOBS TO FLDS KIDS THAT WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE NO LIFE AHEAD OF THEM.
BESIDES BEING A GOOD BUSINESS MAN, HE IS A MAN WITH
A KIND HEART THAT TRULY CARES FOR PEOPLE. NEXT TIME
YOU SEE YOUR DENTIST, ASK HOW MANY OF THE PRODUCTS
CAME FROM ULTRADENT. HIS RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT IN
THIS FIELD HAS PROVIDED THE WORLD OVER WITH NEW AND BETTER DENTAL CARE THAN EVER BEFORE.
I FOR ONE CAN THINK OF NO ONE ELSE THAT IS CAPABLE
OF FINDING A LONG TERM SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEMS IN
TEXAS. GOD BLESS DAN FISHER.
Reminder | 10:10 a.m. May 12, 2008
We still have a Constitution. That means that as much as you want to go in and
"rescue" the mothers and children, these folks are still individuals,
and should be treated like individuals. It's unconstitutional to punish
someone for belonging to a group, and make them guilty by proxy. Individuals are
innocent until proven guilty. Any accusations of child abuse should have been
presented against each mother individually. The state should be sued for civil
rights violations or change the law and ammend the constitution to allow for
group guilt.
Samme | 10:19 a.m. May 12, 2008
**The law in Texas allowed 14 yr. olds to "legally" marry at 14 with a
parent's permission.**
You don't know that these people didn't have parental permission to marry at 14. I rather think they did.
**None of these so called "celestial marriages" are legal.**
Right. They are not civil marriages. So, what's your beef?
**They apparently only legally marry one woman.**
I take it that you're commending them for this, right?
**I would think that until the law changed that they could have married at 14...but only to one person.**
That's exactly what they are doing. See your comment above.
You don't know that these people didn't have parental permission to marry at 14. I rather think they did.
**None of these so called "celestial marriages" are legal.**
Right. They are not civil marriages. So, what's your beef?
**They apparently only legally marry one woman.**
I take it that you're commending them for this, right?
**I would think that until the law changed that they could have married at 14...but only to one person.**
That's exactly what they are doing. See your comment above.
Re: Longtooth | 10:44 a.m. May 12, 2008
Your argument that a single group led by a true Prophets somehow diverged into
two groups with opposite views that are both still led by true Prophets is
patently absurd.
The Prophet will never lead you astray.
False prophets will always lead you astray.
The Prophet will never lead you astray.
False prophets will always lead you astray.
Also of note | 10:49 a.m. May 12, 2008
It seems that when this all started the term "lost boys" meant those
boys that were forceably removed from the FLDS community. It has now changed to
kicked out or run away. Next it will be re-revised to mean kicked out, run
away, or slowly meandered off the compound. I trust the ex-flds more and more
with each passing day as some of their words betray them.
Caroline Jessop said that everyone thinks as one, then she said that when the red revelation came that one woman ripped out a red rose bush and planted a pink one while other women continued wearing red dresses. Caroline Jessop also fails to mention that though she escaped when one daughter was 13, that same daughter Betty, returned when she was 18 years and two days. Clearly that daughter would have memories of abuse that should have kept her out. It makes me doubt some of the stories. Then Caroline jessop says that the kids are very advanced with home schooling yet Flora Jessop says the kids are undereducated. That is more proof of individality. It is time that individual families are treated as such and not judged as one.
Caroline Jessop said that everyone thinks as one, then she said that when the red revelation came that one woman ripped out a red rose bush and planted a pink one while other women continued wearing red dresses. Caroline Jessop also fails to mention that though she escaped when one daughter was 13, that same daughter Betty, returned when she was 18 years and two days. Clearly that daughter would have memories of abuse that should have kept her out. It makes me doubt some of the stories. Then Caroline jessop says that the kids are very advanced with home schooling yet Flora Jessop says the kids are undereducated. That is more proof of individality. It is time that individual families are treated as such and not judged as one.
Re: Wolf? | 10:52 a.m. May 12, 2008
Good parents don't abandon their children or throw them out (at least until
they're legally adults, 18) just because their children make bad
choices.
Parents are legally responsible for their children until they're 18, but the FLDS don't seem to care much for whether something is legal or illegal when it comes to their family relationships.
Dr. Dan Fischer is a good man picking up the pieces of their families that the FLDS have so carelessly disgarded.
Parents are legally responsible for their children until they're 18, but the FLDS don't seem to care much for whether something is legal or illegal when it comes to their family relationships.
Dr. Dan Fischer is a good man picking up the pieces of their families that the FLDS have so carelessly disgarded.
Samme | 10:55 a.m. May 12, 2008
"I've read that part of the reason that Jeffs sent people to Texas was
because he was trying to have a race of "perfect people."
What's wrong with that? Most all religions try to make people perfect.
What's wrong with that? Most all religions try to make people perfect.
CA | 10:55 a.m. May 12, 2008
What kind of goofballs put up with Warren Jeffs stupid proclamations?
They clearly aren't competent to raise kids if they can't tell they are being so obviously manipulated by Jeff's and his family. All the "Jeffs" surnames have all the young brides. Jeff's was said to have as many as 40 wives!
Followers need to take thir blinders off and stop sacrificing the lives of their sons and daughters at the Jeffs alter. He's a nut and they are follish for following him.
They clearly aren't competent to raise kids if they can't tell they are being so obviously manipulated by Jeff's and his family. All the "Jeffs" surnames have all the young brides. Jeff's was said to have as many as 40 wives!
Followers need to take thir blinders off and stop sacrificing the lives of their sons and daughters at the Jeffs alter. He's a nut and they are follish for following him.
To Reminder | 10:56 a.m. May 12, 2008
We need to remember that no one knows for sure which child belongs to which
mother. When they refused to cooperate with CPS regarding something as simple
as names and birthdates.
"Any accusations of child abuse should have been presented against each mother individually".
Kind of hard to do when you don't know which child belongs to which mother.
"Any accusations of child abuse should have been presented against each mother individually".
Kind of hard to do when you don't know which child belongs to which mother.
Sharon | 10:58 a.m. May 12, 2008
Question
In the Book of Mormons....there is a list of the TEN COMMANDMENTS...My question is...how do the FLDS justify the following...Thou shall not commit ADULTERY ? Seems to me...thats is just what they are committing.
Thou shall not steal...Bleeding The Beast...hmmmm!
Thou shall not kill.....Blood Atonement...is that not killing?
In the Book of Mormons....there is a list of the TEN COMMANDMENTS...My question is...how do the FLDS justify the following...Thou shall not commit ADULTERY ? Seems to me...thats is just what they are committing.
Thou shall not steal...Bleeding The Beast...hmmmm!
Thou shall not kill.....Blood Atonement...is that not killing?
Where's Warren? | 11:01 a.m. May 12, 2008
Not an expert on Dan, but its obvious he has the kids at heart - as do many
other organizations.
Problem is, the FLDS own lifestyle DOES NOT and they brought the problem to their own door, kind of a "self fulfilling prophesy" of their own end times.
IE... "We will be prosecuted for all time.. Let the bank robberies begin!"
.
Problem is, the FLDS own lifestyle DOES NOT and they brought the problem to their own door, kind of a "self fulfilling prophesy" of their own end times.
IE... "We will be prosecuted for all time.. Let the bank robberies begin!"
.
Matthew | 11:06 a.m. May 12, 2008
Everyone should remember that Texas can be dead wrong (and is) without the FLDS
being right, lily-white, or innocent.
Likewise, be careful about lumping things that you might consider backwards, unwise, immoral, or repugnant into the same boat with things that are illegal. When you do that you�ve stopped holding to the rule of law and have embraced either anarchy or tyranny.
Likewise, be careful about lumping things that you might consider backwards, unwise, immoral, or repugnant into the same boat with things that are illegal. When you do that you�ve stopped holding to the rule of law and have embraced either anarchy or tyranny.
Bill from South Dakota | 11:05 a.m. May 12, 2008
Dan Fischer sounds like a good man. If is good to see people stepping forward
who know the real story of what goes on in this group. Warren Jeffs turned the
FLDS from a ploygamous religious group into a personality cult. He is totally
nuts. I hope the children can be reunited with their mothers. The
"men" in this group need to stand up and take responsibility for their
actions rather than continue hiding behind the skirts of their
"wives."
Where's Warren? | 11:06 a.m. May 12, 2008
Oh, and to respond to "Reminder":
"It's unconstitutional to punish someone for belonging to a group, and make them guilty by proxy."
No, its not. These were all one children living in one sex commune.
If they had seperate properties with seperate addresses, you might have a point. But you dont.
Warren walled them in behind a fence, locked gates and a guard tower.
His decision. I heard a rumor his decisions were "goofy" - - well, I guess he is enjoying the fruits of his labors now, aint he?
.
"It's unconstitutional to punish someone for belonging to a group, and make them guilty by proxy."
No, its not. These were all one children living in one sex commune.
If they had seperate properties with seperate addresses, you might have a point. But you dont.
Warren walled them in behind a fence, locked gates and a guard tower.
His decision. I heard a rumor his decisions were "goofy" - - well, I guess he is enjoying the fruits of his labors now, aint he?
.
Re: Reminder | 11:08 a.m. May 12, 2008
This is a child abuse case that involves both civil and criminal elements.
Different laws apply to each. Removing a child from a potentially abusive
situation until the child's safety can be assured trumps the innocent until
proven guilty rights of the parents.
It's better to remove a child who isn't being abused and isn't at risk of being abuse, than to leave a child to be abused.
The parents still have every right to challenge the removal of their children and to get their children back if the state can't prove that their children aren't at risk.
It's better to remove a child who isn't being abused and isn't at risk of being abuse, than to leave a child to be abused.
The parents still have every right to challenge the removal of their children and to get their children back if the state can't prove that their children aren't at risk.
hey sharon | 11:13 a.m. May 12, 2008
The FLDS are not committing religious adultery but only legal adultery.
According to their religious beliefs they are spiritually married therefore are
exempt from adultery.
Anonymous | 11:26 a.m. May 12, 2008
Hitler tried to have only "perfect people" also. Except his was
called a "Master race". And we all know what happened to him.
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Dr. Dan Fischer is a former member of the FLDS Church who works with youths that are estranged from the church.
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Calling Warren Jeffs, "goofy," is an extreme understatement of his devastatingly harmful edicts. Guess this was FLDS political correctness speaking.