Reader comments
MormonTimes.com: Placing intimacy in right perspective
55 comments | Read story
Denny Andrews | 7:24 a.m. May 10, 2008
Remember. It's all dirty and shameful.
Hmmm | 8:04 a.m. May 10, 2008
Interesting type of ad to follow such an article...
Comments continue below
bb | 8:23 a.m. May 10, 2008
This is exactly the discussion that is needed. This dialog seems to be missing
or is overshadowed in the anti-pornography effort.
We need to spend more and more time talking about what proper, good intimacy is.
There are too many of us that don't know how to establish lives that aren't shaped by our pornography-saturated society.
Too many seem to have a notion that the only thing they need to do is 'wait' or 'be married'. We need to teach that it is much more than just waiting. We should be talking about proper adult relationships.
Sadly, just the opposite of good relationships is what is portrayed, seemingly everywhere.
There is far less hope for success until we portray and revere healthy relationships.
In the past, critics cried that portraying healthy relationships was naive. We mocked things like 'Mayberry'. Now, after generations, we see that a lack of proper role-modeling is destroying families and people. Somehow, we need to collectively reject the entertainment we have become saturated with.
We need to spend more and more time talking about what proper, good intimacy is.
There are too many of us that don't know how to establish lives that aren't shaped by our pornography-saturated society.
Too many seem to have a notion that the only thing they need to do is 'wait' or 'be married'. We need to teach that it is much more than just waiting. We should be talking about proper adult relationships.
Sadly, just the opposite of good relationships is what is portrayed, seemingly everywhere.
There is far less hope for success until we portray and revere healthy relationships.
In the past, critics cried that portraying healthy relationships was naive. We mocked things like 'Mayberry'. Now, after generations, we see that a lack of proper role-modeling is destroying families and people. Somehow, we need to collectively reject the entertainment we have become saturated with.
Beth Jones | 8:59 a.m. May 10, 2008
The therapist lists things to do to have a "healthy" sexual
relationship, but "refrain from viewing pornography" is not on it.
She fails to show how pornography is related to intimacy, and propagates several
myths.
Myth1:Viewing pornography is harmful.
Truth:Studies over several decades have shown that only sexually VIOLENT material or material depicting degradation/humiliation MAY be associated with violent crime. "Soft Porn" and nudity are NOT harmful (Attorney General's Commission on Pornography).
Myth2:Pornography desensitizes men and contributes to rape.
Truth:Viewing VIOLENT pornography MAY be connected to "anti-social attitudes and behavior," "increased aggressiveness towards women," and "more willingness to accept rape myths," but no valid studies (including Victor Cline's research) have shown a causal connection between pornography and rape. Claims of such a connection are made on religious grounds, citing anecdotal evidence at best. It is not clear whether viewing violent pornography is a cause of SOME violence, or is an effect of some other disorder that also leads to violence.
Myth3:Viewing pornography is grounds for Church disciplinary action.
Truth:Some Church leaders have recommended avoiding pornography. No specific questions about nor discipline is mandated, because defining pornography isn't easy and bishops should stay out of the details of people's intimacy.
Myth1:Viewing pornography is harmful.
Truth:Studies over several decades have shown that only sexually VIOLENT material or material depicting degradation/humiliation MAY be associated with violent crime. "Soft Porn" and nudity are NOT harmful (Attorney General's Commission on Pornography).
Myth2:Pornography desensitizes men and contributes to rape.
Truth:Viewing VIOLENT pornography MAY be connected to "anti-social attitudes and behavior," "increased aggressiveness towards women," and "more willingness to accept rape myths," but no valid studies (including Victor Cline's research) have shown a causal connection between pornography and rape. Claims of such a connection are made on religious grounds, citing anecdotal evidence at best. It is not clear whether viewing violent pornography is a cause of SOME violence, or is an effect of some other disorder that also leads to violence.
Myth3:Viewing pornography is grounds for Church disciplinary action.
Truth:Some Church leaders have recommended avoiding pornography. No specific questions about nor discipline is mandated, because defining pornography isn't easy and bishops should stay out of the details of people's intimacy.
kdzuch1 | 9:22 a.m. May 10, 2008
To Interesting Perspective:
Those are very good questions and concerns. Rather than providing a lengthy explanation and address the subject here, I suggest the best way for you to learn what the LDS Church teaches concerning this subject is to access the lds.org Website. The searching capability of this site is very user-friendly and provides resources/teachings concerning any subject matter. Good luck!
Those are very good questions and concerns. Rather than providing a lengthy explanation and address the subject here, I suggest the best way for you to learn what the LDS Church teaches concerning this subject is to access the lds.org Website. The searching capability of this site is very user-friendly and provides resources/teachings concerning any subject matter. Good luck!
It is possible | 9:50 a.m. May 10, 2008
Interesting perspective - basically, the Mormon church teaches that our bodies
are temples (See 1 Corinthians 3:16 and 1 Corinthians 6: 19-20) and that each
person is a spiritual child of God. Therefore, if our bodies are temples and we
are children of God, then we should try to achieve the better part of life,
including the difficult task of overcoming temptations. As we are successful,
we will have greater self-respect and self-mastery and be free of encumbrance.
wrz | 10:40 a.m. May 10, 2008
Ninety-nine percent of her recommendations has nothing to do with sex.
rrs | 10:50 a.m. May 10, 2008
"While unmarried, are they expected to abstain from self-stimulation and
(for men) make efforts to suppress their nocturnal emissions? If so, are they
generally successful?"
How does one abstain from nocturnal emissions? Not possible.
Nocturnal emissions are nature's way of clearing out old/dead/weak cells to reduce incidences of child birth defects and, some say, cancer. Same with the other procedure you mentioned.
How does one abstain from nocturnal emissions? Not possible.
Nocturnal emissions are nature's way of clearing out old/dead/weak cells to reduce incidences of child birth defects and, some say, cancer. Same with the other procedure you mentioned.
San | 10:56 a.m. May 10, 2008
Interesting said: "In other words unless you are lucky enough to have a
wife or husband you are to go without."
It is also imperative to have a spouse willing to engage.... or you go without.
It is also imperative to have a spouse willing to engage.... or you go without.
What if? | 11:12 a.m. May 10, 2008
What if your wife never wants to have sex? Is it a sin to "take care of it
yourself"? It seems that it is the better alternative to adultery. Also, if
the LDS church teaches that the body is a temple, I've noticed that many
are building much bigger temples these days!
Re; Are you kidding? | 11:14 a.m. May 10, 2008
Amen.
To:wrz | 12:06 p.m. May 10, 2008
I understand your comment, but I'd have to disagree...to have a healthy
outlook on sex has everything to do with the other aspects of our lives. As an
LDS male over 40 who has never been married, I understand well the pressure that
goes with pre-marital abstinence, and I can attest to the recommendations
mentioned in the article. What I would add is how important it is to seek out
and maintain positive relationships with the opposite sex, whether those
relationships are romantic or not. Whenever I find my mind preoccupied with
thoughts about sex, I can usually point to the fact that my life has become
rather unbalanced, especially with regard to a lack of social involvement.
Amazing | 12:46 p.m. May 10, 2008
It is amazing how so many try and assume that everyone's libido is just
like theirs. But regardless of the nature of one's libido, don't try
and ignore the Lord's council regarding the bounds of acting on one's
libido. The bounds are clear to anyone honest enough with themselves to seek
out the Lord's council for the Sons and Daughters on God.
Anonymous | 1:00 p.m. May 10, 2008
The sexual repression in the LDS Church is unbelievable. What an individual does
in their own private life is none of the Church's business. If anyone asks
about your private habits, tell them to go jump in a cold lake. If anyone tries
to make you feel guilty for what you do in your own private life, ignore them.
It is none of their business.
Is it any wonder LDS Church members are so emotionally disturbed?!
Is it any wonder LDS Church members are so emotionally disturbed?!
RE: Anonymous | 1:47 p.m. May 10, 2008
You have to understand that this is not just any institution or club to members
of the LDS church. Members of the LDS church believe that the church is
God's kingdom on earth and they attempt to help each other on the way.
It's true that no one should be made to feel guilty for what they choose to do. That is not why the church exists. The church exists to make aware of what they believe to be the commandments and the consequences of disobedience to those commandments.
To call members of the LDS church emotionally disturbed is quite the assumption. Everyone has their own norms and there needs to be respect FROM BOTH SIDES on that.
It's true that no one should be made to feel guilty for what they choose to do. That is not why the church exists. The church exists to make aware of what they believe to be the commandments and the consequences of disobedience to those commandments.
To call members of the LDS church emotionally disturbed is quite the assumption. Everyone has their own norms and there needs to be respect FROM BOTH SIDES on that.
Opinion vs. Truth | 1:51 p.m. May 10, 2008
You can accept teachings or reject them it's your choice. Those who
disagree with LDS teachings are free to do so and need not be offended by LDS
practices. Every member of the LDS church determines whether to believe and
follow or whether to not believe and not follow. The LDS people have been asked
to keep their thoughts, words, & actions clean. Some things have been
specifically mentioned as clean or unclean. If a teaching is God's truth,
you can accept it or reject it. You receive the consequence for your actions
which may be good or bad depending on what your actions are. It's sad that
others make comments about LDS Church members being emotionally disturbed.
Ignorance and bigotry aren't Christian.
Protected Sex | 2:42 p.m. May 10, 2008
Is "Protected Sex" that is mentioned in some of these comments really
protection? 25% of American teenage girls are currently infected with a venereal
disease and condoms are ineffective protection against some of them.
Doesn't using a condom just give young people a false sense of security?
Masterbation and pornography might be a debatable issue in some people's
minds but veneral disease is very real and we should not give anyone especially
young people the idea that "protection" will really protect them.
Beth Jones? | 3:15 p.m. May 10, 2008
Honestly I don't care what the two researches have shown that you have
mentioned here. You should explain what kind of researches they were, what
method was used etc, if you want to make a point here. Also they focus on
violent crime, not other negative outcomes of porn.I bet you I can find some
other research somewhere that does show that porn is harmful. To me pornography
just feels wrong. It's sick and it's cheating on your spouse. It has
nothing to do with real sexuality. Also, take playboy for example. It's not
only soft porn. They market all sorts of porn from soft to hard core. In my
opinion, religious leaders are right when they say it's a billion dollar
industry that makes some people incredibly rich and leaves other existences
shattered and relationships broken.
Marc | 4:28 p.m. May 10, 2008
Adam is right on the mark. It has been said often that rationalizing away
one's own mistakes or bad habits is the biggest challenge of the saints.
That goes viewing for "R" rated movies, using foul language, or any
other weakness that needs to be recognized and corrected. Not easy to do but
well worth the effort!
Brian | 5:49 p.m. May 10, 2008
Interesting discussion. It would seem that those getting an A on doctrine might
not do so well on compassion and those getting an A on compassion wish some of
the doctrine would go away. The Savior and the prophets seem to manage somehow
to have both in abundance...a worthy goal for all.
sheri | 5:55 p.m. May 10, 2008
A friend of mine "caught" her husband in the shower. She actually
threatened to divorce him for having committed sexual sin, clearly a man that
did that couldn't enter the Celestial Kingdom. I thought she was insane.
She had just had a baby and he could not, per doctors orders, have relations
with her. I thought his actions were reasonable.
happily married | 6:48 p.m. May 10, 2008
My husband and I find that soft porn sometimes (not that often) has enhanced our
sex life. After th birth of my last child, I was really not in the mood. We
only watch non-violent porn and I would say it's pretty soft. We have been
married 17 years and it seems like this has really spiced things up. I have
never been asked about this in a bishop's interview. It has not kept me
out of the temple. It is nobody's business, but ours. I don't feel
guilty about it. Oh and the woman who found her husband in the shower, lighten
up!
sad story | 6:59 p.m. May 10, 2008
A few years ago, a member of our bishopric and his wife were accused by some
ladies in our ward of watching porn. One lady wanted him to be released. It
was all very embarassing for this young couple. I don't know if they did
or not, but if they did, I would not have had a problem wiht it. When I told
these meddling women this, they were appalled. The funny thing was, it was
women who were so upset with this. The men either didn't care or thought
it was ok. Anyway it was sad to see this couple attacked by their church
family.
happily deluded | 7:20 p.m. May 10, 2008
RE: happily married | 6:48 p.m
Let's play along and assume this is a genuine post (not likely)
It does bring up an interesting point.
Sorry guys, even if you're wife goes along with it it is not OK to watch porn. (and "soft" porn is an pointless qualifier, porn is porn)
The fact that one does not disclose moral transgressions to their Bishop and receives a Temple Recommend under false pretense doesn't make it ok. Just add lying to the list of your other shortcomings.
The fact that one does not feel guilty when engaging in practices members have explicitly been counseled to avoid doesn't make it ok, either. Just means you've seared you're conscious and aren't hearing promptings from the spirit (the Bible calls it "spiritually deaf")
good luck
Let's play along and assume this is a genuine post (not likely)
It does bring up an interesting point.
Sorry guys, even if you're wife goes along with it it is not OK to watch porn. (and "soft" porn is an pointless qualifier, porn is porn)
The fact that one does not disclose moral transgressions to their Bishop and receives a Temple Recommend under false pretense doesn't make it ok. Just add lying to the list of your other shortcomings.
The fact that one does not feel guilty when engaging in practices members have explicitly been counseled to avoid doesn't make it ok, either. Just means you've seared you're conscious and aren't hearing promptings from the spirit (the Bible calls it "spiritually deaf")
good luck
To happily deluded | 7:38 p.m. May 10, 2008
Someday you'll fall off that high horse of yours. Oh and how far you will
fall. Back at ya....Good luck!!
As a former member of the church, I'm always baffled by members that think it's their right and their duty and "mission" to be judgmental, preachy, and critical of anyone that tries to be an individual. You are the reason I decided the LDS church just isn't the one for me. Thanks for your help!
As a former member of the church, I'm always baffled by members that think it's their right and their duty and "mission" to be judgmental, preachy, and critical of anyone that tries to be an individual. You are the reason I decided the LDS church just isn't the one for me. Thanks for your help!
KingM | 7:49 p.m. May 10, 2008
Happily Deluded,
Maybe you should worry about your own worthiness more than you worry about that of other people.
Maybe you should worry about your own worthiness more than you worry about that of other people.
back back at ya | 8:04 p.m. May 10, 2008
I don't know you and doubt you know me and am thus surprised to hear I am
the reason you decided the church isn't for you.
Basing your attitude toward the church on the actions etc; good or bad; of other individuals is a poor foundation. It is not even building your house on the sand- it is building it in quicksand.
A better foundation; rock- if you will; is to study the teachings and doctrines of the church; esp and including modern day prophets and scripture; and go to your Father in Heaven in prayer to ask for you're own personal witness from the spirit.
No one is being judgmental, preachy, and critical.
Just telling it like it is.
"happily married" implies that one can view porn without consequences and that is not true.
The truth will set you free if you let it;
don't fear it.
Basing your attitude toward the church on the actions etc; good or bad; of other individuals is a poor foundation. It is not even building your house on the sand- it is building it in quicksand.
A better foundation; rock- if you will; is to study the teachings and doctrines of the church; esp and including modern day prophets and scripture; and go to your Father in Heaven in prayer to ask for you're own personal witness from the spirit.
No one is being judgmental, preachy, and critical.
Just telling it like it is.
"happily married" implies that one can view porn without consequences and that is not true.
The truth will set you free if you let it;
don't fear it.
just thinking | 8:13 p.m. May 10, 2008
Brooke, great post! We really do need to make our own decisions. I am an adult
and still get advice from my parents. Sometimes I take their advice, sometimes
I don't. It is the same with church leaders. In the end it is my life and
salvation and I am responsible for myself.
CurtisHight | 8:19 p.m. May 10, 2008
To 7:38 p.m. and 7:49 p.m., you're telling "happily deluded"
he's headed for a fall, and he should worry about himself. I bet he cares
about others and is hoping that you'll be lifted up.
CurtisHight | 8:26 p.m. May 10, 2008
The Church counsels members to follow the Savior, and then leaders are assailed
for overly dictating to people how to live their lives.
The Church counsels members to follow the Savior, but when a member falls short then leaders are assailed for insufficiently addressing the matter in the lives of their members.
I've never esteemed invitations to be less than my best self to warrant the humble designation of compassion.
The Church counsels members to follow the Savior, but when a member falls short then leaders are assailed for insufficiently addressing the matter in the lives of their members.
I've never esteemed invitations to be less than my best self to warrant the humble designation of compassion.
CurtisHight | 8:29 p.m. May 10, 2008
...if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto
you all things what ye should do. Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and
there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto
you in the flesh. (2 Nephi 32:5-6)
The purpose of the Church is not well expressed with the sense of plateauing as "an active [or "worthy"] member of the Church" as implied in places in this discussion; the purpose is to bring us into a covenant relationship with Christ and then to encourage and instruct us along that path. "Feeling guilty or not feeling guilty" was a functional framework when I was a child, and I'm respectful that others are humbly at this stage regardless of their age, but long ago my framework became feeling the Spirit so poignantly that I follow Him with decisiveness; it�s incisive dialog and action rather than binary and slavish reaction to my spirit's mortal environment.
The purpose of the Church is not well expressed with the sense of plateauing as "an active [or "worthy"] member of the Church" as implied in places in this discussion; the purpose is to bring us into a covenant relationship with Christ and then to encourage and instruct us along that path. "Feeling guilty or not feeling guilty" was a functional framework when I was a child, and I'm respectful that others are humbly at this stage regardless of their age, but long ago my framework became feeling the Spirit so poignantly that I follow Him with decisiveness; it�s incisive dialog and action rather than binary and slavish reaction to my spirit's mortal environment.
CurtisHight | 8:31 p.m. May 10, 2008
Being enticed is fundamental to our agency, and the strongest enticements
provide our greatest opportunities for spiritual growth; they provide tangible
entities for us to measure ourselves against. This is a decisive opportunity to
establish and know within ourselves that we love God will all our hearts;
it�s a precious opportunity to feel the Spirit and
establish internal balance and bearings.
Were no one else to care, He would care what I do in the privacy of my bedroom. May our eyes, our hearts, and our other body parts, be single to His glory.
Were no one else to care, He would care what I do in the privacy of my bedroom. May our eyes, our hearts, and our other body parts, be single to His glory.
Petre Stanislau | 8:32 p.m. May 10, 2008
To 8:04 p.m.,
I read comments like yours frequently, and I honestly intrigued by it. You are saying don't trust anyone but God. That makes much sense. But if "basing your attitude toward the Church on the actions of others" is a foundation of "quicksand," then how do we take your actions of recommendation? Hopefully you see how absurd to claim that we should not trust anyone but God. We MUST trust someone somewhere sometimes about something! Otherwise, your comments, and ANY missionary work are futile!
Second point: countless people say study the teachings and doctrines of the Church and go to Father in Heaven in prayer to ask for a witness. I have honestly done that so many times over two decade it amazes even me! (I record everything in journals). But I can honestly say IF God has answering me, He tells me things that disagree with LDS teachings. When I tell that to my LDS friends (they say I am "dry Mormon"; I had lessons from 8 sets of the missionary so far), they say I am getting the wrong answer. How can that be? That make no sense to me.
I read comments like yours frequently, and I honestly intrigued by it. You are saying don't trust anyone but God. That makes much sense. But if "basing your attitude toward the Church on the actions of others" is a foundation of "quicksand," then how do we take your actions of recommendation? Hopefully you see how absurd to claim that we should not trust anyone but God. We MUST trust someone somewhere sometimes about something! Otherwise, your comments, and ANY missionary work are futile!
Second point: countless people say study the teachings and doctrines of the Church and go to Father in Heaven in prayer to ask for a witness. I have honestly done that so many times over two decade it amazes even me! (I record everything in journals). But I can honestly say IF God has answering me, He tells me things that disagree with LDS teachings. When I tell that to my LDS friends (they say I am "dry Mormon"; I had lessons from 8 sets of the missionary so far), they say I am getting the wrong answer. How can that be? That make no sense to me.
no one's business | 8:40 p.m. May 10, 2008
It almost seems like some people think it is their business what goes on in my
bedroom. Guess what? It isn't. I am sure your LDS neighbors do stuff
that you would feel uncomfortable with or vice versa. As long as the husband
and wife feel good about it, then go for it.
Yea right | 8:41 p.m. May 10, 2008
I wouldn't ask advice from any LDS bishops since they have no psychology
training...some are just HS grads...
re: back back at ya | 8:44 p.m. May 10, 2008
There's a difference between telling it like it is and telling it as you
see it. Perhaps when you get knocked off that perch you've placed yourself
on, you'll figure that out.
In the meantime, since you are obviously more "in tune" with the spirit than the rest of us, please tell us what are the consequences our "happily married" lovebirds will have to face? More openness with each other? More happiness and fulfillment in their sexual relationship? Oh no!!
Even though they are closer together, it's certainly too bad they won't be in the celestial kingdom with you and all the other "saints" that have all the answers. We're waiting for further instructions oh wise one.
In the meantime, since you are obviously more "in tune" with the spirit than the rest of us, please tell us what are the consequences our "happily married" lovebirds will have to face? More openness with each other? More happiness and fulfillment in their sexual relationship? Oh no!!
Even though they are closer together, it's certainly too bad they won't be in the celestial kingdom with you and all the other "saints" that have all the answers. We're waiting for further instructions oh wise one.
re: back back at ya | 8:56 p.m. May 10, 2008
I think the consequences are if judgemental people find out about it, their
names will be dragged through the mud.
By the way..... | 9:05 p.m. May 10, 2008
....who reads this drivel in the "Mormon Times" anyway? I'm
waiting for the "Jack Mormon Times" to come out. That's one
I'll read.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 9:06 p.m. May 10, 2008
Tens of thousands of people die every year in Myanmar, also known as Burma, from
diseases such as tuberculosis, AIDS and diarrhea. Malaria alone kills about
3,000 people annually in a country where medical care is too expensive for most
people to afford. When you have malnourishment with infectious diseases, the
fatality rates go up. Reports of diarrhea, malaria and skin problems have
already surfaced, and (that government spends only about 3 percent of its annual
budget on health, compared to 40 percent on the military) not their health
officials fear waterborne illnesses will emerge due to a lack of clean water,
along with highly contagious diseases such as measles that are easily spread.
About 90 percent of the population lives on just $1 a day. Millions also go
hungry, with a third of Myanmar's children estimated to be malnourished.
Remember, the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals,
communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
Sam | 9:23 p.m. May 10, 2008
"A friend of mine "caught" her husband in the shower. She
actually threatened to divorce him for having committed sexual sin, clearly a
man that did that couldn't enter the Celestial Kingdom. I thought she was
insane. She had just had a baby and he could not, per doctors orders, have
relations with her. I thought his actions were reasonable."
Shari, your friend made a grave mistake. She should have jumped in the shower with him. Even with her clothes on.
In all seriousness, I'm afraid that women are brain-washed into thinking that anything and everything to do with sex is nasty. This is so ingrained from youth that they tend to carry the mentality into marriage. Hence we have alotta dissatisfied married men who engage in... uh, showers.
Shari, your friend made a grave mistake. She should have jumped in the shower with him. Even with her clothes on.
In all seriousness, I'm afraid that women are brain-washed into thinking that anything and everything to do with sex is nasty. This is so ingrained from youth that they tend to carry the mentality into marriage. Hence we have alotta dissatisfied married men who engage in... uh, showers.
Give me a break | 9:32 p.m. May 10, 2008
To: Wow, where to begin
You can continue to quote Mormon leaders all you want. What you're failing to understand is that everyone here doesn't always agree with LDS leadership viewpoints. And you know what? That's ok. You can believe what you want, but let others believe what they want as well.
By stating that she watches porn with her husband, "happily married" wasn't quoting or distorting any church position. She's simply sharing something that has worked for her and her relationship with her husband. Good for them.
And, good for you also to have different beliefs. Enjoy your lifestyle, but don't force your views on everyone else. We don't all drink the koolaid.
You can continue to quote Mormon leaders all you want. What you're failing to understand is that everyone here doesn't always agree with LDS leadership viewpoints. And you know what? That's ok. You can believe what you want, but let others believe what they want as well.
By stating that she watches porn with her husband, "happily married" wasn't quoting or distorting any church position. She's simply sharing something that has worked for her and her relationship with her husband. Good for them.
And, good for you also to have different beliefs. Enjoy your lifestyle, but don't force your views on everyone else. We don't all drink the koolaid.
To Give me a break | 9:49 p.m. May 10, 2008
Nobody's forcing their beliefs on anybody else. But when a member of the
LDS church tells everybody at large that the church doesn't care one way or
the other about a particular action, when they have blatantly and repeatedly
proved that they DO care, then other members are going to tell the truth. I
think that "Wow, where to begin" said it all, and quite well. I
don't care one bit about what goes on in the privacy of other members'
homes. I care what the Savior and the Prophet have said, and I will do my best
to live up to that. Everybody has short comings, but the church leadership
hasn't exactly minced their words on the subject. We're to try to
avoid those things at all costs if we want to be following the Savior and His
teachings.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 6:09 a.m. May 11, 2008
Jarvis, who never married and never had children, got the Mother's Day idea
after her mother said it would be nice if someone created a memorial to
mothers?. Why was that ?. More mothers now work out of the home, and the number
of single-mother households has tripled to more than 10 million since 1970. I
want to be "REAL-CLEAR" here. Nature as well as liberal's and
socialist utopian's abhors a vacuum. Where there are no mature, responsible
Father's around to teach girl's and boys how to be good men and women,
gangs serve in their place. The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve
pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. Husband and
wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their
children. Children are an heritage of the Lord (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a
sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for
their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another,
to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they
live. Happy Mother's Day.
Anonymous | 8:22 p.m. May 11, 2008
To 1:39 p.m.,
There is at least one problem with your argument citing religious dogma and fairy tale beliefs: those darn reasonable facts keep getting in the way. You only prove the point that religious dogma is not helpful, especially since it has obviously conditioned YOU to engage in VERY unhealthy dichotomous thinking ("There is NO middle ground to this truth"). With such irrational thinking, you continue to spew out unsupported assertions, appeal to irrelevant authority, and non-sequitur extrapolations from mere opinion. Give it up, my friend. Your arguments have no currency with anyone but other dogmatic fanatics.
There is at least one problem with your argument citing religious dogma and fairy tale beliefs: those darn reasonable facts keep getting in the way. You only prove the point that religious dogma is not helpful, especially since it has obviously conditioned YOU to engage in VERY unhealthy dichotomous thinking ("There is NO middle ground to this truth"). With such irrational thinking, you continue to spew out unsupported assertions, appeal to irrelevant authority, and non-sequitur extrapolations from mere opinion. Give it up, my friend. Your arguments have no currency with anyone but other dogmatic fanatics.
Anonymous | 9:30 p.m. May 11, 2008
8:22 p.m. points to the key issue that makes real dialogue here difficult, if
not impossible: dichotomous thinking. Life would certainly be more simple if
everything could be neatly defined in binary terms, but it can't.
Observation of life in general, and people with all their variations in
personality and upbringing and circumstances show that's not the case;
things fall on a continuum. If God created such variety, then why would he
define everything in polarized terms and deny his children the richness of
seeing and recognizing the spectrum? That just seems too oversimplified for
someone as divine and all-knowing as I imagine God to be.
To anonymous 8:32 | 10:14 p.m. May 11, 2008
Whether or not you believe that a particular religious organization has
religious authority or not, bashing somebody else for believing the counsel of
their church leadership is inappropriate. The world would be a much better place
if more people actually did follow the counsels of decent and humane leaders.
anonymous | 8:28 a.m. May 12, 2008
Didn't Ted Bundy state that Pornography set the foundation for what he
later became??????
Town Heathan | 11:00 a.m. May 12, 2008
Hmmm So Mormons neither mastribate or watch porn, which strengthens their
marriage.
Then why is it that UTAH (predominately Mormon) has just has high of a divorce rate as other non-Mormon states.
Why is it that UTAH leads the nation in child abuse.
Seems there is a coorilation here.
Bottom line...until you have tried the "fruit of that tree", you will never be able to understand what it means. If your one of those people that have never mastribated or watched porn, then you will never know if that fruit was good or bad. Some think the "fruit of that tree" was bad. Funny, but without that "fruit", none of the rest of you would exist. For those that are not "Mormon" the "fruit of that tree" is a quote from the LDS temple cerimony which discusses the creation and free agency. Funny...the healtiest marriges I know are all non-LDS and they all view porn and mastribation as no big deal.
Then why is it that UTAH (predominately Mormon) has just has high of a divorce rate as other non-Mormon states.
Why is it that UTAH leads the nation in child abuse.
Seems there is a coorilation here.
Bottom line...until you have tried the "fruit of that tree", you will never be able to understand what it means. If your one of those people that have never mastribated or watched porn, then you will never know if that fruit was good or bad. Some think the "fruit of that tree" was bad. Funny, but without that "fruit", none of the rest of you would exist. For those that are not "Mormon" the "fruit of that tree" is a quote from the LDS temple cerimony which discusses the creation and free agency. Funny...the healtiest marriges I know are all non-LDS and they all view porn and mastribation as no big deal.
Please pull this thread | 11:38 a.m. May 12, 2008
This kind of discussion is certainly needed and healthy but in this format it is
extremely counter productive.
Anyone can come on here posing as anybody - including being a Bishop or LDS or non-LDS and say anything they want disguised as someone they are not.
I have read the whole thread and have found some portion of it helpful but many parts of it are misleading and less than genuine. Please shut it down before it gets worse.
Anyone can come on here posing as anybody - including being a Bishop or LDS or non-LDS and say anything they want disguised as someone they are not.
I have read the whole thread and have found some portion of it helpful but many parts of it are misleading and less than genuine. Please shut it down before it gets worse.
Add your comment
Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.
Words Remaining
E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.
- RSL will play for MLS Cup tonight 3:06 a.m.
- Jazz outlast Pistons in overtime 3:06 a.m.
- Utah Utes whip SDSU 3:05 a.m.
- BYU records with win 3:05 a.m.
- RSL dancing with soccer stars 3:04 a.m.
- Cougars turn focus to dreaded rivals 3:04 a.m.
- Dixie State campus briefs 3:03 a.m.
- Weber State campus briefs 3:02 a.m.
- UVU campus briefs 3:01 a.m.
- BYU campus briefs 2:59 a.m.
- Glenn Beck to enter politics?
- Can BYU throw vs. Air Force?
- Police link alcohol to murder
- Huntsman blasts media over trip
- Cougars cruise to victory in Hawaii
- Christian leaders not backing down
- BYU records with win
- TCU still has a chance
- Orem man acquitted in tot's death
- Religion cited in deportation fight
- Buttars wants to limit gay rights laws
192 - Palin plans tour stop in Utah173
- Glenn Beck to enter politics?129
- Palin's book shows she's unqualified122
- Officer cleared in Cardall Taser case103
- BYU cuts Women's Research Inst.100
- Jazz finally win in San Antonio98
- BYU records with win95
- Utes knock off rival Aggies93
- Huntsman pleased with Obama87
Latest comments
Beck is extremely smart, he is selling books and is very popular on TV. All...
@Mick, the Federal Govt is run by corporations through contributions and...
Lets bond together and hope for a REAL celebration SUnday night, can hardly...
I was on the playground too and some teachers came out and called us all to...
B.Y.U. has been a consistent a top 25 ranked winner under Max Hall. Hall has...
Did Timp win four in a row or 4 in 4 years?
You have a lot of growing up to do, It seems like you have not cxperienced...
The proposed ethics law puts roughly the same burden on a legislator that a...
Hall ACTUALLY broke the all timme wins record vs WYO last week. I guess...
Sounds to me like Kraig Powell may be a candidate for resignation. So long,...
Advertisements
In the same vein, not getting in a car is the best protection against getting into an automobile accident.
Yes this is true, but it begs the question about risk / reward.