Deseret News | U. limiting podiatrists in medical facilities

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U. limiting podiatrists in medical facilities

Matt | 6:17 a.m. May 10, 2008

The Podiatrists had thier foot in and now are getting their toes stepped on. I suppose you give a surgeon an inch and he'll take a foot. This calloused approach is tantamount to hauling away these Podiatrist's cars with a tow-truck without any warning. I for one am putting my foot down and going to IHC where they treat Podiatrists with the respect they deserve.

Sam | 7:43 a.m. May 10, 2008

What do you call two orthopedic surgeons looking at an EKG . . .

A double blinded study

Adam | 9:37 a.m. May 10, 2008

Yet another stupid political medical turf war where one specialty finally trumps up enough support to out the other specialty. How ridiculous that the podiatrists who are very well-trained in their field and have been performing surgery for years are now limited to soft tissue nonsense. Yet another reason why I was never a fan of the U's medical school nor facilities and why I went elsewhere to medical school.

Comments continue below

Follow the money | 10:04 a.m. May 10, 2008

Can you say "antitrust"?

It's a MEDICAL school | 10:14 a.m. May 10, 2008

Hello?!? The point is that it is a medical training facility.

Rand | 11:01 a.m. May 10, 2008

I did my residency at San Francisco General Hospital alongside other specialties, including Orthopedics. I served as Chief of Staff at our County General Hospital, and on Committee and Department leadership in three other hospitals on which I was a full, active member of the Medical Staff. I served as an assistant professor at a major, State teaching medical center, teaching other medical/surgical residents. I receive weekly referrals from local orthopedists who are clearly aware that their training does not prepare them for most foot and ankle surgery.
Now, who wants to be first as the patient of the least-prepared, who suddenly, for financial reasons, wants to learn foot-and-ankle surgery after all these years?

Dissatisfied | 11:28 a.m. May 10, 2008

MDs can be very well trained. But just because one has an MD does not make one a good physician. MDs are excessively self-centered, egotistical and haughty. They do not meet all medical and surgical needs. That is why there are podiatrists, chiropractors, naturopaths, and others who provide health care that MDs don't. And, no, it doesn't matter to me what MDs think. I'll decide for myself who can give me the best health care. That being said, the podiatry career field has had plenty of time to modify their training to be equal to that of the MD. The osteopaths did it and, in many ways, are much better physicians than are MDs. So, podiatrists really don't have anyone to blame but themselves!

What, why, how! | 1:28 p.m. May 10, 2008

This was supposedly done for the students! What about the patients! I was once surprised to hear somebody comment that they wouldnï¿½t take a dead horse to anything associated with the University of Utah. At the time I laughed it off. Call it karma or what have you, but I soon had a very good friend go there in an emergency situation and it was, without a doubt, the worst care I hope to ever watch or experience. Medical students were left with limited supervision to care for critically ill patients. The results were painful, disastrous and life-altering. I personally heard one medical student in charge say she had not slept in 36 hours and that was not uncommon. She then proceeded to fail to recognize a mistake the previous medical student, who had not slept in 48 hours, had made and my friend suffered life-altering consequences. Even with the top-notch training the U is recognized for, what human should be making decisions like this on limited sleep, with limited experience and limited supervision.

Arrogance | 1:29 p.m. May 10, 2008

Once again the U shows it's true colors. How can you tell me that a Podiatrist w/ three years of Residency focused on foot and ankle surgery isn't trained as well as the MD. What a joke. For Dissatisfied to compare podiatrists to chiropracters and naturopaths is ridiculous. Podiatrists are attending 4 years of school followed by training in allopathic medical facilities and are also "board certified". I would prefer a foot surgery from a podiatrist who specialized in that care and has done thousands of them versus an "MD" orthopedist who for some odd reason isn't making enough money with knees and hips. It's comparable to an ENT doing knee surgery.

What, why, how! | 1:30 p.m. May 10, 2008

My friend did not sue, even though he was encouraged to, but he will honestly live and deal with this daily for the rest of his life. This was a life-altering thing for him, but for the student and the doctor in charge, it was just another day. Another day and another decision (with consequences billed to my friend) made in an environment designed to fail the patient. Doctors (despite what they may think) and medical students are only human. They pull their pants on the same way the rest of the world does, but somehow they think they can make decisions, such as this one, without anyone questioning their judgment. For the students my a**. If that is the case then they need to start treating the students like students and the patients like patients and we as consumers need to start acting like this is our problem. The doctors and insurance companies are counting on our apathy to rule until we are stuck in their care, too sick and too tired to be able to do anything about it.

What, why how! | 1:30 p.m. May 10, 2008

WAKE UP people. . . or, take the medical approach and stay up for 36 hour periods for YEARS on end under extreme stress and then make a decision about it with almost no notice followed by 102 other decisions of equal and significant importance. This decision, however political it is, can affect you! If it is made ï¿½for the studentsï¿½ then understand those students could be your surgeon operating on you after a 36 hour shift! Donï¿½t kid yourself as I did that there is doctor supervision. Either there is a MAJOR difference in my interpretation of the word from Webster, or the arrogant doctors are perpetuating a broken and stupid system. Try it yourself. Donï¿½t sleep for 2, 36 periods for even one week. Make the assumption you could remember anything you have learned while sleeping on that kind of schedule and try carving even a turkey! How careful are you? How nimble is the knife? How sound would your judgment be! WHY are they shifting business away from people with experience to add to an already huge problem!

William Grant | 1:19 p.m. May 11, 2008

This is yet another example of prejudice, this time perpetuated on the patients of a University Medical Center. Priveleges should be merit/training based, not politically handed out as largresse.
As long as this behavior continues to be tolerated, patient's health is in jeopardy. It will truly be fascinating to watch orthopaedists treat diabetics for minor foot problems ongoingly, so that they can rapidly intervene when serious limb threatening events suddenly develope. Chances are they won't; they will probably delegate this "minor care" to partially trained nurse practitioners; they will miss emerging serious problems since "the eye sees what the brain knows". The patients will suffer the most.
Shame on the University for being dogma based and clearly NOT an institution of true academia.

pjag | 6:06 p.m. May 11, 2008

"(The univeristy) is indebted to them for the years of service they provided when we did not have dedicated foot and ankle surgeons."ï¿½.I guess podiatrists arenï¿½t ï¿½dedicatedï¿½ foot and ankle surgeons, very sad & ignorant, indeed.

ï¿½We thought hard about this ï¿½ what's the best way to deal with this that's most fair for the podiatrists involved, but will meet our obligation to patients and trainees?"ï¿½ï¿½.Definitely isnï¿½t fair for both the podiatrists & the patients.

DPM | 10:10 p.m. May 11, 2008

DPM = doctor of podiatric MEDICINE.

Orthopods tend to admit patients to medicine while pods fight for admitting privliges.

Last time I checked podiatrists practice allopathic medicine of the foot and ankle. What is it again that the MD's practice?

U. Health - Bulllies!!!!!!! | 10:59 p.m. May 11, 2008

This is typical bullying behavior by the University of Utah. They do this all the time - and get away with this because the SL Tribune and the rest of the local media are in their back pocket. Thanks to the Deseret News and Lois Collins for exposing this.

Wake up and smell the skunk, people! The University of Utah Health Care System is all about the almighty dollar!

In terms of quality and cost, I'll take Intermountain Health Care over the U. any day of the week - hands down.

By the way hss anyone noticed that you can't turn the TV channel or read the newspaper without seeing a glossy U. Health ad. Who's paying for all these millions of dollars in ads - You and I and everyone else who payes taxes. Quit supporting this bloated corporate medical model at the U. -- JUST SAY NO!!!!

Podiatry helped change my life.. | 7:54 a.m. May 12, 2008

Just a sad situation. It doesn't make sense to do this sort of thing without a real reason. I underwent surgery on both of my feet as a kid--it was performed by a podiatrist and it changed my life for the better. I will always think highly of podiatry. At the same time, I don't have anything against orthopedists (except maybe the ones at the U now).

3rd Year Podiatry Student | 8:52 a.m. May 12, 2008

Frankly this makes me sad. I'm sick of money being the motive for quality care. In my training I've got no question that my foot and ankle training is far superior to that of an MD and I've got 5 years of training yet ahead of me! I know because I've been side by side with MD's and noted their lack of anatomical understanding, among other things (the average MD spends about 1-2 weeks learning about the foot throughout their schooling). Further, I'm sick of MD's who went through what I like to call a "dinosaur curriculum" in school dictating the scope of a profession that clearly educates its future podiatric physicians and surgeons on a much higher level. All I can say to the U is have fun snuggling with you accountants, they still show you love.

Bill | 6:55 p.m. May 12, 2008

I should remind those upset with these recent events, that the MDs that will be providing the foot and ankle care at the U have completed four years of allopathic medical school, five years of Orthopaedic surgical residence and an additional year of foot and ankle specific fellowship training. They are certainly capable of handling any and all problems pertaining to the foot and ankle...and capable of supervising fellow, resident and nurse practitioner performance of more simple procedures. The quality of foot and ankle care at the U will either maintain it's current high standard, or improve because of these changes. On the flip side, it sounds like these events unfolded in a most unfair manner. Is there any reason the effected DPMs could not have been grandfathered in, while halting hew hires?

Lloyd Steinberg, DPM | 8:04 p.m. May 12, 2008

Limiting choice to the patient, are often is a bad choice for a hospital and a training program. Legal counsel should be sought for grounds to(requre the hospital)to continue the quality of Foot Care with the services of Podiatric Foot Specialists being available. Freedom of choice, equal treatment, all seem to be forgotten by the new hospital leadership. My Dad used to tell me that often the most antagonistic people in medicine towards Podiatry were also the poorest quality of physician. Where is the APMA when Utah Podiatrists need their help and legal counsel?
Lloyd Steinberg, DPM

Dan | 11:11 p.m. May 12, 2008

It is quite sad to see a hospital take away the surgical privileges of a health professional who is very competently trained in foot and ankle surgery because of money and the bad judgement of a select few who are supposed to uphold the utmost "patient care." This is nothing but greed at its best because no scientific evidence was used in this decision. Something needs to be done about this- it affects not only the podiatrists, but the patient as well. It should be the patient's decision which specialist they want to operate on them. If the patient believes a foot and ankle ortho is more competent in treating their condition- they have always had the rights to see whomever they want.

matt | 6:28 a.m. May 13, 2008

My wifehas had bunion surgery from our podiatrist. This was AFTER she unfortunately had surgery by an orthopedist who botched the surgery. I would never go to an orthopedist for foot surgery. Since the university is trying to capture all the foot cases from the podiatrists, it is clear that their orthopedists are not being well trained in foot surgery. I would never recommend going to an orthopedist for foot surgery and most definitely feel that podiatrist are the foot and ankle surgeons better trained.

Anonymous | 11:24 a.m. May 13, 2008

A "well trained" orthopedist will typically only do 6 months to 1 year of specific foot and ankle training, while many Podiatrists who perform surgery will do at least 2 years of foot and ankle specific, surgical training (after 4 years of podiatric medical school). Saying, or implying, that Orthopedists are better suited or better trained to do foot and ankle surgery than Podiatrists is simply untrue. This is a cash and power grab by Dr. Saltzman, nothing more. The way this has happened reminds one of mafia-style tactics. Elbow the other guy out any way you can so there is more for yourself.

Steven | 11:39 a.m. May 13, 2008

How sad for an institute of higher education to make such an uneducated decision. Did they question how many foot and ankle procedures the average orthopedist performs during residency as compared to a podiatrist. If they had, they would realize the mistake that they have just made.

Jarrett Hamilton DPM | 2:26 p.m. May 13, 2008

Discrimination plain and simple. Happens in other specialties too though. Should a Neuro surgeon not be able to do spine surgery because they didn't do a Ortho residency and a spine fellowship? Chances are this wouldn't happen but it has more to do with the fact the neurosurgeon has MD after his name. As anyone in medicine knows there are areas which overlap. This is a good thing. This is the same narrow minded thinking which targeted DO's 30 years ago. Maybe the U should kick out all DO's because there training was clearly second rate (couldn't get into allopathic school). As I recall the U doesn't have an Osteopathy program so why deprive those poor allopathy students? Of course I am joking. But the point stands. Narrow minded professional bigotry.

AZ foot doc | 2:32 p.m. May 13, 2008

So by this rational should all general ortho's not be allowed to do foot and ankle surgery. Because though they've done an ortho residency they clearly aren't as well trained as the obviously deficient podiatrists the U axed? I honestly dont think so but you could make the arguement. Trust me you dont want an ortho who did a spine fellowship and hasn't seen a foot in 3 years touching your ankle much less your bunion. Ask around and I gaurantee that on the whole patients who have had bunion surgery were much happier with their podiatrist rather than the Foot and Ankle ortho (much less general ortho). So where does that leave patient care? I dare the U to send out patient satisfaction surveys and compare podiatry with Foot and Ankle ortho.

Another Foot Doc | 11:14 a.m. May 14, 2008

As previously stated this is a pure financial decision based upon dwindling reimbursements to doctors. If reimbursements were where they used to be, the orthopedists wouldn't give a hoot about the podiatrists. Ask virtually any general orthopedic surgeon if they really want to do foot and ankle surgery other than the fellowship trained foot and ankle guys (who by the way will do general orthopedics as well) A resounding "not really" would be the answer.

America needs to wake up to the health care issues facing ALL of us. It appears doctors with less training and experience will be providing care to America in the coming years and decades. Those who believe the orthopedists did this in the best interest of patient care are fooling themselves.

Comments from NYC | 11:22 a.m. May 14, 2008

How sad. Any podiatrist on staff should resign. The university should be left sans podiatrists immeadiately. While it would be sad for the patients that remain, compliance with this outrage only will embolden university officials. Let the U. employ RNs and PAs to perform the minor functions that they are allowing. They can also deal with whatever fallout that is bound to occur from the lesser quality of care. This is one hit that the podiatry profession can't take on the patient's behalf.

Another Foot Doc | 6:28 a.m. May 15, 2008

Truthfully, while most of the podiatrists will resign, with the exception of 1 or 2, the university could care less. According to their beliefs, nurse practitioners or PA's can perform their tasks just as well. General surgeons or ETN's are easily able to take care of wounds. A smart podiatrist or two could open an office right by the University and cull off the patients just by sheer location. Unfortunately, I'll bet they all signed non compete clauses.

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