Comments about ‘Colliding causes: Gay rights and religious liberty’

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Published: Saturday, Feb. 11 2012 1:00 p.m. MST

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A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

A Scientist,

My arguing from a religious standpoint doesn't disprove my claims. As far as "warping" truth goes, you included that little fallacy in your comment. You will find my comments frequently on this site when this topic of debate comes up. I provide reason, and no one has yet proven me wrong. Not only that, I have proven many of my claims to be irrefutably true. I make statements like that, people say "what about this?" and I respond with how people are either inadequately addressing the logic involved, denying principles that are legally binding according to our laws and constitution, by denying principles that are self-evident to our existence (simple principles that are inescapable), and by denying all reason in order to further a relativist agenda- to be a law "unto themselves" rather than accept democratic government as a means of protecting individual freedom.

The principles of the LDS Church's teachings can withstand and will withstand any scrutiny you can ever come up with. Why? Because the LDS Church is true. There is nothing warped about it. What's warped is people pretending they are a different gender, people pretending that their anatomy functions according to their desires and according to nothing else.

There is nothing warped about the truth, just those who deny it.

Kevin J. Kirkham
Salt Lake City, UT

A voice of Reason
You will find my comments frequently on this site when this topic of debate comes up. I provide reason, and no one has yet proven me wrong. Not only that, I have proven many of my claims to be irrefutably true.

KJK
Dude? Seriously? Your comment reminds me of the Black Knight from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail". You can claim, "It's just a flesh wound" all you want, but that doesn't make it true nor the battle not lost.

harrylevan
Salt Lake City, UT

I assume you'll be apologizing for misrepresenting the facts of the stories you cite?

Vince here
San Diego, CA

The caravan of equality is coming through. You can choose to join it or be a casual observer.

The worst part, of course, is to be stand in its way and have your words be a footnote in history, becoming the part of the dialogue that refuses to step up to an equality whose time has come.

Rifleman
Salt Lake City, Utah

This issue is exactly why the American people refused to pass the Equal Rights Amendment. In today's world of declining morality I'm not so sure that amendment to our US Constitution wouldn't have become law. Thankfully it didn't.

Ms.W
South Jordan, UT

"I've heard people say, "If gay and lesbian couples can go into any business and demand service, next thing you know, they'll demand to be married in any church they want and no one can stop them," but in my opinion, such arguments are apples and oranges. "

The demands are already being made. Go to the sltrib commentary and click " Time for same-sex LDS marriages" and then tell me this is just all fluff.

Mormoncowboy
Provo, Ut

The photography case is interesting, and so far the only case where I can agree that SSM has posed a threat against religious liberty. The other examples are void because it has to do with tax status and public funds, which cannot be discriminatory. In fact, I would hope that more people would discriminate in this line of business so that I can compete against them and gobble up all the business they refuse to do.

John C. C.
Payson, UT

The current dilemma is not new. In the 1960's "modern thinkers" decided to abandon traditional family values and quit enforcing laws against fornication and adultery. For centuries decent societies have risen and fallen on the strength of weakness of their family values. The basic principles haven't changed, a large segment of society has chosen to ignore those principles. Now over half of our children are being born outside of marriage.

There is a reason the violation of the sanctity of marriage has historically been an offense almost as serious as murder. It destroys our society from the inside out much more effectively than foreign invaders from the outside in. If mates cannot stay true to each other and commit to raising their families, there is no hope for loyalty to any other institution, such as our national government.

RFLASH
Salt Lake City, UT

If it would have been me, I would leave and let it go, but there is a reason why people don't. Maybe, one day, these people will truly have somebody that steps over their bounds and lets them know what it is like. It is not a fun feeling to get treated like you are some kind of leper. You know, give me a break, how can somebody do that and say it is their religion that tells them it is ok. I was raised 100% Mormon and this would never have been alright according to how I perceived the teachings. Sadly, I have come to see that there are those who use their religous beliefs to do some very nasty things. So, how far do people use their religion to do things like this. Most of my beliefs have come from Mormonism, so what about my religois beliefs! Because, being treated like that certainly is something I never believed in!

Big R
Danville, CA

You will hear all about the movie "Bully" that is out now, but not once will the gay, lesbian, trans-gender group ever stop to think that what they do is just as much bullying as what kids do on playgrounds. If you disagree with their views they bully you any way they can to drive you out of business, out of sight and get their way. I'd like to hear Ellen DeGeneres, who is a sincere, good person, discuss this issue on her show.

3oflast4
Draper, UT

This is a slippery slope that will continue to get steeper with each occuring issue as the boundaries between gender/sexual orientation definitions get blurred further and further.

A couple of years ago there was a situation in Oregon where a women had undergone partial surgery to look like a man but kept her reproductive organs. She was in a relationship with a woman who was unable to have kids. The transgender person (who now looked like a man) was able to get pregnant by artificial insemination and 9 months later delivered a healthy baby.

Because he was the birth mother, the hospital listed him as the birth mother. The couple fought the hospital and wanted him listed as the father (even though she didn't provide the sperm) and the female partner listed as the mother even though she didn't give birth.

Things like this will continue to de-evolve into even further unimaginable scenarios and what's now becoming a nightmare will continue to get even worse.

Free Agency
Salt Lake City, UT

Within the gay community, you'll find not just activists but the "overzealous" kind, who are ready to jump on anything they see as "discrimination" and march into battle.

Probably every minority group has this type. So it's important to look separately at each issue in the gay fight for equality and ask, "Is this imposing on others' beliefs? Or are others trying to impose *their* beliefs on gays?"

The legalization of gay marriage is a classic example. There's no just reason why gays shouldn't be allowed to marry. The objections people have are based solely on their own beliefs.

Should clergy be made to perform marriage ceremonies for gays, even though it violates the clergy's beliefs? Should vendors (such as the photographer) be made to accept assignments for gay weddings, even though it goes agains th vendors' beliefs?

Absolutely not. That's an imposition on these people of the gay clients' own beliefs.

As a gay male, let me assure you that the majority of gays are much more reasonable and fair-minded than those overzealous activists. Please get to know gays individually before making judgements about gays

Forward
Anthem, AZ

Perhaps the Defense should have asked a more relevant question. Such as,

“If a photographer being Hindu was asked to photograph an Orthodox Jew’s practice of a religious ceremony which included an animal sacrifice of a cow, could the photographer be accused of Religious discrimination for refusing to shoot the ceremony on grounds that he believes cows to be sacred.” Although the photographer would not be participating in the ceremony should the courts be able to require this Hindu photographer to take the job? I would stand and say emphatically, NO. Would this not infringe upon freedom of speech and compel unwanted expression?

If Elane believes that eliciting sexual arousal in any person not your spouse and of opposite gender to be adultery, then photography of such an event would be considered pornography. So if her religious belief is to abstain from immorality including pornography, then compelling her to photograph such behavior would most definitely infringe upon her freedom of religion, and compel unwanted expression!

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