Comments about ‘Colliding causes: Gay rights and religious liberty’

Return to article »

Published: Saturday, Feb. 11 2012 1:00 p.m. MST

Comments
  • Oldest first
  • Newest first
  • Most recommended
Christy
Beaverton, OR

This is what Jesus said about gay people.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
He didn't mention them. So you can't use the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' thing. YOU labeled it sin. HE didn't.

Why don't you pay more attention to his, "As I have loved you, love one another" admonition?

Christy
Beaverton, OR

It's so tempting to try to address all the wild lies and dead wrong, made up statistics regarding gay people and gay couples on vivid display here.

But it's better to remember that truth overcomes lies, and love overcomes hate. Civilization is naturally progressive.

Such narrow, bigoted views thin out and die, for the most part.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

wrz says:

"You can find information about distaste of same sex couples in the Christian Bible. Look it up."

Your own God said: "As ye have done to the least of these, ye have done unto me" - Look it up.

---

"Distaste" isn't a valid reason to invalidate Constitutional Rights of any Citizens. Your bible and it's "distaste" has no standing in Civil Law.

SoCalChris;

The Constitution guarantees Equal Protection under the Law to ALL Citizens; even those you don't approve of.

lds4gaymarriage
Salt Lake City, UT

ClarkHippo: "I've heard people say, 'If gay and lesbian couples can go into any business and demand service, next thing you know, they'll demand to be married in any church they want and no one can stop them,' but in my opinion, such arguments are apples and oranges."
wrz
You apparently haven't a clue as to the power the federal government has acquired in the last few decades.
LDS4
If gays ever try that, a constitutional amendment banning that would pass so easily that no politician would dare oppose it. Even most gays would support it. Women have FAR more power than gays and yet there has been no push trying to force LDS and Catholics to ordain women.


SoCalChris
The 9th circuit had to use that cynical ploy - that a right had been granted (oh yeah, by other justices) and then taken away - because they know the traditional definition of marriage will pass a rational basis test.
LDS4
The CA Supreme Court has a right, under CA's constitution, to interpret CA's constitution and they felt that Prop.22 violated CA's constitution. If prop.22 was a constitutional amendment instead of a state statute, no gays would have been married and therefore the 9th's reasoning wouldn't have applied and it would have been found constitutional under federal law. The anti-gay strategists made the tactical error in passing 22 as a statute.

I wish you would address my comments on Judge Smith's opinion.

Do you support the "separate but equal" status offered by Civil Unions?

county mom
Monroe, UT

I would not ask someone who hates Mormons to come to the temple and take pictures. I would not ask someone who hates the Boy Scouts to come to an Eagle Court of Honor. If someone told me it was against their religious beliefs to take pictures of my family I would honor their right to believe as they wish and find someone who likes families. If my child married an African American, I would welcome them with open arms but, there are those in my extended family that would not. I would be hurt but I would honor their right to not come to the wedding. My rights do not extend into forcing others to believe as I do!

A Scientist
Provo, UT

These businesses advertised their products and services to the general public without any caveats or conditions specified. Based on those ads, same sex couples had a reasonable expectation to receive goods and services. For these business owners to lure them in then deny those services for any reason is at minimum false advertising. To deny the advertised services explicitly for reasons of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and such is explicit illegal discrimination.

If these businesses do not want to do business with "those kind" of people, then they must disclose that in their advertising and post it openly where the public can see:

"Heterosexual Photography Only"

"This pavilion reserved exclusively for the use of 'worthy' Christians who are not violating Leviticus 18:22"

"Whites Only"

-- oops, wrong issue with that last one, right?

Claiming that your customers, who responded to your business advertising, are violating your religious freedoms by accepting your offer for goods and services, is disingenuous, false advertising, and downright illegal!

newintown
WOODS CROSS, UT

The merit in this case is specious at best. This gay couple simply found a way to get a free $6,000. Why in the world would you insist that someone who doesn't want your business perform a service for you? Has logic and reason gone completely AWOL?

Again, this is not a public accomodation business. It is subject to agreement on the part of both parties before any contract exists. It is no different than saying "I don't take photos in bars. Please contract someone aho does." This issue is yet again being hijacked legally and politically by LGBT extremism run amok.

How about a service that only reds books to disabled children? Am I legally obligated to read to any person who requests my services or suffer legal action?

Can a hotel refuse service to people who insist their pets are "family?"

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'All I want to know is, where's Pagan?' - Shuzzie53 | 1:05 a.m. Feb. 12, 2012

I'm here, I'm here!

Always nice to be wanted. :)

Now, the crux of the issue is that homosexuality might conflict with religious practice, right?

Which one?

No. Really. Which religion are we going to follow?

As, some Judeo-Christian faiths actually SUPPORT gay marriage. One example?

United Church of Canada.

Also, there is more than ONE faith. Mormon, Wiccan, Catholic, Muslim, etc.

So, if we are going to follow the teachings of religion about homosexuality...

1) Which one, should we follow?

2) Are we then going to follow ALL teachings from a faith?

As exampled, the bible has stories of:

Rape
Infidelity
Slavery
Murder
Genocide.

So, are we going to follow the teachings in the bible about homosexuality...and then NOT follow the examples of selling a wife into servitude. (Moses)

2) Which teachings, are we going to follow?

i.e. If we are going to deny photography due to homosexuality...

then we cannot photograph people who are divorced.

A Scientist
Provo, UT

False advertising is one thing. But then to turn this on its head, as this article tries to do, and make the false advertising business owners out to be innocent victims of gay and lesbian "activism" is blatantly dishonest and appalling.

And it is hypocritical, especially when you consider that these religious business owners are all claiming to follow the doctrines of Jesus, who not only "did business with" but also dined with and hung out with tax collectors, drunkards, prostitutes, and probably a few gays and lesbians!

Are these religious business owners placing themselves above their claimed Master? Are they claiming to be better than Him?

It sure seems that way.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

Also:

If we are going to target homosexuals then ANY minority can be subject to the same treatment.

I will bring up the 'white only' resturants for Ameriocans of color in the 1950's.

NOT, because orientation is comparable to race but because BOTH...

are examples of discrimination.

The only difference is that once you are INFORMED of a persons orientation, they are not 'moral.'

And yet BEFORE the photagrapher found out, it was 'fine.'

The people who do cannot see PAST the issue of race, do not want to draw the parralels of discrimination.

Would then make THIS statement:

**'Rick Perry backer decries Mitt Romney, Mormons' - By Jamshid Ghazi Askar, Deseret News - 10/08/11

"(Robert) Jeffress described Romney's Mormon faith as a 'cult,' and said evangelicals had only one real option in the 2012 primaries. ... Asked by Politico if he believed Romney is a Christian, Jeffress answered: 'No.' " - article

I want any Mormon willing to DEFEND this comment...

after defending discrimination against LGBT.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'...70% are depressed and the depression was shown to NOT be due to societal pressures on Gay people...' - 1hemlock | 10:26 p.m. Feb. 12, 2012

Let me show you the facts:

**'Teens gay or straight more likely to attempt suicide in conservative towns' - By LINDSEY TANNER - Medical Writer - AP - 04/18/11

'CHICAGO Suicide attempts by gay teens and even straight kids are more common in politically conservative areas where schools don't have programs supporting gay rights, a study involving nearly 32,000 high school students found.' - article


Utah, is one of the most conservative states in America.

And:

**'Utahns think about suicide more than other Americans, study shows' - By Dennis Romboy, Deseret News - 10/21/11

There is a DIRECT link to conservatism and depression.

And unlike you, I can prove it.

'Children have the right to be raised by a mother and father.' - 1hemlock | 10:26 p.m. Feb. 12, 2012

No.

They do not.

And I can prove it in two words:

Bristol. Palin.

"In most ways, the accumulated research shows, children of same-sex parents are not markedly different from those of heterosexual parents."

- AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS (AAP) - 02/01/10

Anti Government
Alpine, UT

As usual and as promised, it is not enough that they be allowed to marry etc but now the militant gay community will force you to take pictures of them even if you don't want to.

Imagine, they are forcing you to take pictures of them or else.

So where will the line be drawn about what they can force you to do?

I'm sure thera are plenty of photographers who would take their picture but they want to legally force this one to do it.

Gays expect tolerance for all of their beliefs and yet will tolerate nothing but forcing you into behaviors you thought you had a choice in.

Gay people create alot of the animosity themselves.

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'As usual and as promised, it is not enough that they be allowed to marry etc but now the militant gay community will force you to take pictures of them...' - Anti Government | 9:48 a.m. Feb. 13, 2012

The.

Humanity. (sarcasm)

Tell me where it says in your religion...

to not take pictures, of homosexuals.

Can't find it?

That's because there is no such rule.

'False advertising is one thing. But then to turn this on its head, as this article tries to do, and make the false advertising business owners out to be innocent victims of gay and lesbian "activism" is blatantly dishonest and appalling.' - A Scientist | 9:25 a.m. Feb. 13, 2012

Best quote in the comment board.

The issue here is disclaimer.

What happened to the 'Right to refuse service' buisness?

They don't exist.

People have a right to have service, if they have the money to PAY, for service.

Can you picture honest disclaimers?

'We reserve the right to refuse service. If you are black, female, or gay we can deny you serivce. If I do not believe you are 'Christian', I can deny you service. If you are not in good standing...'

DanO
Mission Viejo, CA

The irony is we are becoming more and more like Sodom every day.. but it's the true sin of Sodom: being inhospitable.

"Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt."

spring street
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

1hemlock illustrates the real reason christians have lost a lot of their previous standing in society it is simply due to their own words and deeds. Since christians have taken to complete fabrications and blatantly lie about those they do not agree with they have done more damage to their own reputation and standing in society then any atheist or gay person could ever do. As pagan has already illustrated there s not one fact in 1hemlocks entire post. If Christians want respect maybe they should stop breaking their own commandments and live by their own dictates.

Al_Tenuta
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Photographers, simply say you loathe gay marriage, but you will shoot the wedding because you really need the money. Any reasonable person would find someone else to photograph their wedding.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

One's "right of conscience" says that if I don't believe in something I don't do it. It says nothing about refusing to do business with those who do participate in the things I find morally wrong.

Examples;

(1) Drug use. Does this photographer do weddings of drug users/pushers? If so, isn't she "violating" her religious conscience?

(2) Rape and Murder. Does she photograph the weddings of rapists and murderers?

(3) Child abuse. Does she photograph the weddings of people like the Sloops?

(4) Shellfish eaters. Does she photograph the weddings of those who eat shellfish? These people are abominations too, you can read all about it in that wonderful book everyone seems to be quoting all the time, you know, the "Bible".

(5) Gingrich's 2nd & 3rd marriages. Would she have photographed these weddings? You know, both wife #2, wife #3 as well as Gingy were all adulterers and should have been stoned according to her "Christian beliefs".

I'll bet you she would have serviced all of the above weddings though. Any takers?

Nothing in your Christian Values says you can't do business with sinners, only that you, yourself shouldn't sin.

That is what your "right of conscience" should be about: "I won't sin, but whatever others do is none of my business and won't affect how I do business with them".

christoph
Brigham City, UT

Nobody is interested in gay marriage; just turning society and schools and nations and families upside down (due to boredom) and calling religion and history and traditional family-- bad names. You have been discriminated against? Who cares? The Mormons were treated badly in Missouri and Illinois and ended up leaving the USA and going to Mexico (Utah). Have faith and forgive and pray and fast and believe in community. A society that disagrees on every single issue is divided and won't last. Get a library card, take up art, poetry, golf, learn a language, start a business, write a book, start your own university. God allows us to do a thousand hobbies but says no to a few things.
If you can't say no to gay marriage, you won't say no to anything.

christoph
Brigham City, UT

Christy in Oregon----Peter and Paul called it sin---they did the Lord's dirty work. The New Testament is more bold against this than the Book of Mormon. Over 50 times Peter and Paul condemn lust and putting flesh over spirit. Peter and Paul were called to leadership for a reason.

22ozn44ozglass
Southern Utah, UT

DanO

"The irony is we are becoming more and more like Sodom every day.. but it's the true sin of Sodom: being inhospitable"

This claim that the sin of Sodom was being "inhospitable" does not hold up under scrutiny.

Genesis 18:20
20 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

Genesis 13:13
13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly.

Genesis 18:26
26 And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

2 Peter 2:6
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Jude 1:7
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Genesis 19:4-5
4 ¶But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

to comment

DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.
About comments