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Utah seeks facts about Texas raid
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me without a hanky | 7:25 a.m. May 9, 2008
Such a sad tragic tale.
The gall and hypocracy are overwhelming.
But it is worth a shot, Utah won't prosecute it's own polygamists; maybe it will try to snatch a few rescued children from saftey in Texas and turn them back over to the cult.
Underage escapees in southern Utah have faced the same fate for years.
The gall and hypocracy are overwhelming.
But it is worth a shot, Utah won't prosecute it's own polygamists; maybe it will try to snatch a few rescued children from saftey in Texas and turn them back over to the cult.
Underage escapees in southern Utah have faced the same fate for years.
grandma in Illinois | 7:40 a.m. May 9, 2008
Prove that the children were not 'moved' down there. I don't
immediately believe the 'visiting' grandparents story - it was also
used by some Canadian family. And better check to see if the
'visiting' girls are pregnant first or on the marriage roles from the
Bishop records.
There were reports that wives and children had been reassigned to other husbands from Utah by Warren Jeffs.
There were reports that wives and children had been reassigned to other husbands from Utah by Warren Jeffs.
Comments continue below
Lionheart | 8:06 a.m. May 9, 2008
I will vote against the AG next election. If there was any doubt that Utah was
supportive to plygs, there is none now. Utah is footing the bll for this
lifestyle. I read that Hilldale has more foodstamps that anywhere in the
country. We know how the Kingstons live and yet we want to help return these
child victims to that filthy lifestyle?
Amazin. Utah's slimy underbelly is showing. The Coast of Oregon, my birthplace and home of my ancestors is looking better all the time.
Amazin. Utah's slimy underbelly is showing. The Coast of Oregon, my birthplace and home of my ancestors is looking better all the time.
Is Justice Blind | 8:29 a.m. May 9, 2008
Thank God the Texans have taken control of this
problem with the FLDS. It is unthinkable that people
feel it is there right to molest children in the name
of God. Let�s not lose site of the fact that:
A. molesting children is against the law.
B. Raping a child is against the law.
C. Polygamy is against the law.
Where is the Utah Attorney General in all of this?
He feels polygamy is not serious enough to prosecute?
That the state of Utah has no resources to go after
these kind of people? My word. This man needs to be
replaced with someone with some moral fiber and
values.
We prosecute victim less crimes like drug abuse, but when
Children are hurt or older people have a total disrespect
for the laws of the land, they turn there heads?
Shame on you.
This behavior has been going on for long enough in
this state, and for The Attorney General to perpetuate
this kind of behavior is shameful.
problem with the FLDS. It is unthinkable that people
feel it is there right to molest children in the name
of God. Let�s not lose site of the fact that:
A. molesting children is against the law.
B. Raping a child is against the law.
C. Polygamy is against the law.
Where is the Utah Attorney General in all of this?
He feels polygamy is not serious enough to prosecute?
That the state of Utah has no resources to go after
these kind of people? My word. This man needs to be
replaced with someone with some moral fiber and
values.
We prosecute victim less crimes like drug abuse, but when
Children are hurt or older people have a total disrespect
for the laws of the land, they turn there heads?
Shame on you.
This behavior has been going on for long enough in
this state, and for The Attorney General to perpetuate
this kind of behavior is shameful.
Chemist | 8:52 a.m. May 9, 2008
Really glad that I have been in the midwest long enough (40+ years) to call it
home. What a cop out by the Utah authorities. Hope the federal task force can
take care of these polygymous groups. GO TEXAS.
George | 9:18 a.m. May 9, 2008
THIS is history, Religious Persecution, live in America, the land of the
"free"
dlr | 9:38 a.m. May 9, 2008
So what is Texas going to do with these children, force them to denounce their
parents and upbringing. Will they instruct the children, "Forget your
past. You are now free to conform to your foster parents. You live in free
America, and you need to value your freedom that we bestow unto you. In the
years to come, you will thank us for taking your past from you..."
Forget it. Are the Texans gods to rule over the future of these children.
This is a mess, and should have been handled different from the start. Utah has struggled through this before. You can't change people by hitting them over the head with a club. You can't take children out of their home and force an alien culture on them.
A middle ground will have to be reached. The FLDS group will have to give up something, but in return, Texas will have to give up something in return.
Forget it. Are the Texans gods to rule over the future of these children.
This is a mess, and should have been handled different from the start. Utah has struggled through this before. You can't change people by hitting them over the head with a club. You can't take children out of their home and force an alien culture on them.
A middle ground will have to be reached. The FLDS group will have to give up something, but in return, Texas will have to give up something in return.
Utahn from Texas | 10:26 a.m. May 9, 2008
I grew up in Utah and now live in Texas. Texas may be a bit heavy handed, but
Utah has been extremely lax with polygamists. Why? Probably because they
didn't want to have to fund the families after they broke them apart.
Nevertheless, it makes Utah look supportive of them and this article is very
annoying. I am very dissapointed in Utah for having no backbone and for not
being clear about what Utahns stand for. Utah is disgracing itself. Please
Utah, stop the bleeding heart stuff and stand up for what is right!!
Lawrence | 10:34 a.m. May 9, 2008
Odd that the TX, (Lawrence v Texas) began with a bogus phone call as well...how
coincidental. Wikipedia and scroll down to Arrest of Lawrence and Garner
Bot | 10:37 a.m. May 9, 2008
I haven't met anyone in favor of 14-year-olds being impregnated by older
men. But when are the Texas Rangers going to raid the Dallas inner-city homes
of pregnant 14-year-olds and cart off the other children, who might be subject
to similar abuse? And when will they shutter the Planned Parenthood locations
which refuse to report statutory rape of 14-year-olds by men in their twenties?
Why isn't there equal treatment under Texas' law?
The locals in Eldorado were worried about the FLDS taking over the county, so State Rep. Harvey Hilderbran sponsored a bill in 2005 that raised the legal age of consent to marry in Texas from 14 to 16. This was specifically targeted against the FLDS. When the FLDS moved to Texas the legal age was 14.
Note how the Texas Child Protective Service implies that 18 is the legal age. The CPS can�t be trusted and can�t be trusted with foster children. Two-thirds of their foster children are on mind-altering drugs. Wouldn�t the FLDS children be better off if they were returned to their mothers. Prosecute the men who fathered children with �wives� 15 or less and let the others alone.
The locals in Eldorado were worried about the FLDS taking over the county, so State Rep. Harvey Hilderbran sponsored a bill in 2005 that raised the legal age of consent to marry in Texas from 14 to 16. This was specifically targeted against the FLDS. When the FLDS moved to Texas the legal age was 14.
Note how the Texas Child Protective Service implies that 18 is the legal age. The CPS can�t be trusted and can�t be trusted with foster children. Two-thirds of their foster children are on mind-altering drugs. Wouldn�t the FLDS children be better off if they were returned to their mothers. Prosecute the men who fathered children with �wives� 15 or less and let the others alone.
Jon W | 10:49 a.m. May 9, 2008
Yes, laws are laws and the FLDS should have been obeying them. They probably
justified their disobedience by the crazy idea that they should obey God more
than man (see Acts 4:19, D&C 3:7). I don't believe God commanded them
to take more than one wife, or that girls should marry at an early age, but
obviously. that is what they believe. Utah and Arizona didn't like it, but
they knew by experience it was useless to try and prosecute the men when they
wouldn't get cooperation from the victims (the women). Texas didn't
like it when the sect moved there, so they responded the same way Assyria and
Babylon responded to the ancient Israelites - by taking the children captive and
removing them from their homes. Very effective. But is it constitutional? Is
it right? Should it be happening in the United States of America in the 21st
century? Does anyone believe that the state will ever allow these children to
be raised in the religion of their fathers again? If this isn't a case of
ethnic cleansing on religious lines by a government entity, someone please tell
me what would be.
TheMadNuker | 11:39 a.m. May 9, 2008
That rotten state of Utah, can't they do anything right? It's all
their fault! I heard from a friend,
that heard from a friend, that read a story that Utah, has the most polluted sunshine coming from the sun, do to the excessive number of church buildings in the state. Better call Al Gore, he can
prove it. Maybe Texas, which is pure can swoop into Utah, and arrest all the naughty people and all those evil church buildings. You and I know, that Utah must be responsible for all the naughtiness, and naughty people everywhere. If you don't believe
me, just read all the inane post submitted,based not
on logic or facts, but upon hate, bigotry, and stupidity.
that heard from a friend, that read a story that Utah, has the most polluted sunshine coming from the sun, do to the excessive number of church buildings in the state. Better call Al Gore, he can
prove it. Maybe Texas, which is pure can swoop into Utah, and arrest all the naughty people and all those evil church buildings. You and I know, that Utah must be responsible for all the naughtiness, and naughty people everywhere. If you don't believe
me, just read all the inane post submitted,based not
on logic or facts, but upon hate, bigotry, and stupidity.
Anonymous | 11:43 a.m. May 9, 2008
How embarrassing that Utah is jumping into this mess. Everyone knows that the
AG in Utah and the Mormons support pedophilia, polygamy, and all the other
nasties that go with it. If Utah thinks that Texas is going to hand over these
kids to families that are FLDS they are dreaming. Huntsman, are you insane?
illegal means illegal | 11:42 a.m. May 9, 2008
Right?
Oh wait. Compassion. Supposed to show that.
Or was that only for immigrants?
Oh wait. Compassion. Supposed to show that.
Or was that only for immigrants?
LIV | 11:46 a.m. May 9, 2008
WHAT BOTHERS ME MOST ABOUT THIS WHOLE DEBACLE IS THAT NO EVIDENCE HAS BEEN MADE
PUBLIC ABOUT THE AGES OF THE GIRLS THAT ARE SUPPOSEDLY UNDERAGE. WE KEEP HEARING
ABOUT "TEENAGE" GIRLS BEING PREGNANT OR HAVING CHILDREN BUT SOMEONE
THAT IS 18 IS ALSO A TEENAGER AND CAN LEGALLY HAVE CHILDREN AND A HUSBAND. THE
FACTS HAVE BEEN SO DISTORTED BY THE CPS THAT IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR
CASE IS ABOUT CHILD ABUSE AND NOT ABOUT ERADICATING A RELIGION. I THINK THAT IT
IS IMPORTANT TO SEE THE EVIDENCE BEFORE MAKING RASH JUDGMENTS AGAINST THESE
PEOPLE. I DON'T BELIEVE THE ASSUMPTIONS THAT THE MEDIA IS SHOVING DOWN OUR
THROATS, AND I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE CPS THAT RAIDED THESE PEOPLE
WITH BUSES IN TOW ON THE PRETEXT OF A RUMOR AND TOOK AWAY CHILDREN WITHOUT ANY
SOLID EVIDENCE. THIS IS A MATTER OF RELIGION AND NOT ABUSE. IF THEIR WERE CRIMES
COMMITTED PROSECUTE THE GUILTY INSTEAD OF SEPERATING INFANTS FROM THEIR MOTHERS.
THIS IS AN AMERICAN TRAGEDY AND IF THIS STANDS NO PERSON OR THEIR FAMILY WILL BE
SAFE FROM GOVERNMENT MANDATED ASSIMILATION INTO WHAT IS DEEMED PROPER MAINSTREAM
SOCIETY BY OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS.
Price of Freedom | 11:49 a.m. May 9, 2008
Given that no Abuse has happened --Fact(based on current evidence) I think FLDS
are right on track, and every person with a spine should rise to the call.
I'm shocked that so many Americans consider a accusation as Evidence.
Common People Whose America is this, I demand that Due Process be followed and
accusations be investigated, how hard is that to understand, the End will never
Justify the Means, as the Means is the END.
LU | 11:57 a.m. May 9, 2008
OK, I'm sticking up for shurtliff. This was a horrible way to do it
(Texas). YOu don't change people as dlr stated by hitting them and tearing
children from parents.
I say let's go after every man who has an affair and produces children out of wedlock. Let's cut off all welfare for single mothers and lock up the fathers.
FLDS can live the way they want, but they have to renounce child brides. Old jeffs has done more harm to that community and brought more condemnation on them than anyone else in their history.
And you smarmy Andi Em and your snide comments just go to show what a bigot you are against a religion that has renounced, and excommunicated any one who practices it.
Shurtliff is trying to bring them along without destroying their families.
Texas doesn't give a darn about children ie: branch dividians (look how many they saved there) and these children are being horrible damaged by what the authorities have done.
I say let's go after every man who has an affair and produces children out of wedlock. Let's cut off all welfare for single mothers and lock up the fathers.
FLDS can live the way they want, but they have to renounce child brides. Old jeffs has done more harm to that community and brought more condemnation on them than anyone else in their history.
And you smarmy Andi Em and your snide comments just go to show what a bigot you are against a religion that has renounced, and excommunicated any one who practices it.
Shurtliff is trying to bring them along without destroying their families.
Texas doesn't give a darn about children ie: branch dividians (look how many they saved there) and these children are being horrible damaged by what the authorities have done.
PrayforTexasCPS | 11:58 a.m. May 9, 2008
This is no longer about polygamy. If it were, then the polygamists would be in
jail. If this were about the suspected rape of underage teenage girls, then the
men would be in jail.It is the children who are in jail like facilities. I
believe totalitarians in my state have stolen the children for nefarious
purposes. The totalitarians are the ones messing with Texas.
People outside of Texas who have relatives who have made the mistake falling in with what might be a bad group must not let the Texas CPS workers get a free pass on stealing their young relatives.
People outside of Texas who have relatives who have made the mistake falling in with what might be a bad group must not let the Texas CPS workers get a free pass on stealing their young relatives.
goose | 12:08 p.m. May 9, 2008
"this isn't a case of ethnic cleansing on religious lines by a
government entity, someone please tell me what would be. "
Child protection.
Law enforcement.
Child protection.
Law enforcement.
G | 12:14 p.m. May 9, 2008
Funny how when Texas "investigates" (raids) an FLDS compound, CPS gets
touted as heroes, and when Utah says it will "investigate" claims of
Utahns in Texas custody, they get nothing but scorn.
You think Texas is hiding something?
You think Texas is hiding something?
HD | 12:22 p.m. May 9, 2008
Again, I state that a great deal of this problem could be resolved simply by the
FLDS adults cooperating with the Texas authorities and providing information on
families so that this can be sorted out. The FLDS refusal to provide honest
answers to questions has resulted in the situation that we now find ourselves in
with the FLDS group. There is no doubt that laws have been broken. You have the
FLDS leader in jail for these problems. Do you think that since he went to jail
that the rest of the FLDS society went back to obeying the laws? These children
have been kept in a closed society that does not allow for independent thinking
and understanding of the world that they live in. Of course these children are
confused at this point. This is the fault of their parents and the closed
society they are brought up in. This in itself is a form of abuse. Basically,
their agency has been taken away from them and they do not realize it. There are
simply situations that we as a society can longer tolerate when laws are being
broken.
Nimrod | 12:37 p.m. May 9, 2008
I agree with Bot's post. I don't think any of us on the outside of
these compounds wants young teenagers impregnated and forced to marry.
But the Texas authorities' actions have been extremely HEAVY HANDED. It disturbs me greatly to think of those 400 plus children who were in no imminent danger to be KEPT FROM THEIR MOTHERS! It's just APPALLING that they would all be placed in foster care. I can see NO NEED for that for children under age 10, for instance.
My husband and I are licensed foster parents, and know how traumatic it is for young children to be taken away from their families, even for just cause. In this case--the needs of young children are being made subservient to a political agenda.
But the Texas authorities' actions have been extremely HEAVY HANDED. It disturbs me greatly to think of those 400 plus children who were in no imminent danger to be KEPT FROM THEIR MOTHERS! It's just APPALLING that they would all be placed in foster care. I can see NO NEED for that for children under age 10, for instance.
My husband and I are licensed foster parents, and know how traumatic it is for young children to be taken away from their families, even for just cause. In this case--the needs of young children are being made subservient to a political agenda.
Anonymous | 12:38 p.m. May 9, 2008
Let texas do its' job. If Utah wants to deal with some of this stuff,
we've plenty within the state here to go after.
TG for Texas ! | 12:40 p.m. May 9, 2008
This has nothing to do with what religion you are a member of. It has to do with
abuse.
Cookie | 12:44 p.m. May 9, 2008
Hope ya'll saw May 7 Natl. Geo Channel, 'Strong City' and Larry
King May 8. Ya getta glance at how the mind control fellas work. Yes, Utah has
been very lax. I wouldn't vote for yer AG in Utah either;
hopefully you'll get someone in that office who has "meat on their bones".
Since this fiasco began, I pray night and day for
the children. The folks who claim only one husband
and wife scenario; their children were removed,
I especially have prayers and concern for them.
Why and how did they become affiliated with such
a controversial group/leadership? What will they
do now?
Until society as a whole can eradicate abuses
against children, like the babies in India
thrown off a tower for 'good health'(horrifying!),
we cannot declare ourselves moral, and face
destruction. I hope our Savior returns soon!
hopefully you'll get someone in that office who has "meat on their bones".
Since this fiasco began, I pray night and day for
the children. The folks who claim only one husband
and wife scenario; their children were removed,
I especially have prayers and concern for them.
Why and how did they become affiliated with such
a controversial group/leadership? What will they
do now?
Until society as a whole can eradicate abuses
against children, like the babies in India
thrown off a tower for 'good health'(horrifying!),
we cannot declare ourselves moral, and face
destruction. I hope our Savior returns soon!
larry | 12:50 p.m. May 9, 2008
The AG apparently cannot read. Polygamy is against the law. Your office does
not decide what is or is not against the law. Your office prosecutes according
to the law(s. You do not decide which law you want to enforce. Good grief
man!
Glad to be out of Zion. Mentally, spiritually, and physically.
Glad to be out of Zion. Mentally, spiritually, and physically.
Jon W | 12:54 p.m. May 9, 2008
Goose,
You didn't understand my question. I wasn't asking what the Texas DFS action was, I was asking what would qualify as ethnic cleansing if the Texas action doesn't.
"These children have been kept in a closed society that does not allow for independent thinking and understanding of the world that they live in."
That's similar to the reasoning the Nazis gave for hauling Jehovah's Witness children out of their familes and off to concentration camps for "re-education." More recently (i.e. this year and last year), the Germans have done the same thing, in a few instances, to homeschooling families.
You didn't understand my question. I wasn't asking what the Texas DFS action was, I was asking what would qualify as ethnic cleansing if the Texas action doesn't.
"These children have been kept in a closed society that does not allow for independent thinking and understanding of the world that they live in."
That's similar to the reasoning the Nazis gave for hauling Jehovah's Witness children out of their familes and off to concentration camps for "re-education." More recently (i.e. this year and last year), the Germans have done the same thing, in a few instances, to homeschooling families.
GS | 12:57 p.m. May 9, 2008
CPS has said that the FLDS lied. CPS has in foster care a 24-year-old woman
married to a monogamous 24-year-old man with 2 children and 1 on the way. She
is being held in foster care as one of the "disputed" children. CPS
has determined in their great wisdom by their famous "eyeball" test
that she "looks" underage. According to her lawyer, she has loads of
documentation to prove her age, including birth certificate and drivers license
(which are accepted routinely every single day by the state of Texas as valid
proof of age and identity). CPS says her documentation "might" be
fake, but they have offered no proof that it is fake. Her writ of habeas corpus
will be heard next week by a district judge in Austin. Just because CPS
didn't believe her or her documentation, she is automatically branded a
liar? Hmmm, let's call the "victims" liars when we can't
get the answers we want out of them.
Connie | 1:28 p.m. May 9, 2008
Utah and mormon church authorities should be defending polygmy and the church
doctrine and not fighting the revelation of the great prophet Joseph Smith.
CarefulReader | 1:29 p.m. May 9, 2008
I keep reading comments about prosecute the men and let the women and children
go. The FLDS men know the law and how to walk up to the edge of the law and not
cross over. I doubt they broke any laws. But even if they did, the evidence
gathered in the raid would not be permitted in court, so chances of getting a
conviction would be minimal. Moreover, in a criminal prosecution, all the CPS
documents and every other aspect of the raid would be subject to subpoena and
review. This would aid the FLDS men greatly in their wrongful arrest lawsuit,
which would follow shortly after the defendents were found not guilty due to
lack of legally obtained evidence. My guess is that Texas will just hang on to
the children as long as they can with the tacit threat that parents will never
get them back if the group sues for wrongful search and seizure. I don't
see why Shurtliff would want to get in the middle of this, but I can see why
Texas would not want him to.
G | 1:35 p.m. May 9, 2008
"These children have been kept in a closed society that does not allow for independent thinking and understanding of the world that they live in."
If the FLDS deserve to have their children taken away, it is because (and ONLY because) of the alleged sexual abuse of minors, and arguably, their practice of the illegal polygamist lifestyle.
I find it disturbing to see that a lot of the posters here think that there are other legitimate reasons to confiscated children, reasons like the one cited above. "Independent thinking" is irrelevant, most kids in the Bible Belt are raised in the religions of their parents, and there isn't a general uproar. The quality of their toys is irrelevant, there was a time before kids all had Xboxes and Wiis and parenting was probably generally better then. So far nobody has passed a law against living in closed religious communities, the Amish still get away with it.
So if religion really has nothing to do with this, why is there so much of this sentiment expressed here?
sharon | 1:43 p.m. May 9, 2008
Wondering if anyone can answer this question I have about the welfare dept. in
Utah. My underestanding, many of the women and their children get food stamps,
health care..etc.....from what I have read...the FLDS calls it Bleeding The
Beast.What I would like to know....Does the state of Utah not make the fathers
of these children, pay child support?
wyogirl | 1:55 p.m. May 9, 2008
Utah residents = Please elect representative that will prosecute the abuses
going on in your state! I can't believe that the FLDS have the gall to ask
for more help from Utah. They use millions of dollars that are earned by
working people in Utah to support their "lifestyle" and use public
funds for their own benefit (the airport and private plane paid for my school
district money) and they preach about how wicked and evil all the other Utah
residents are - then ask your representative for help?
This is NOT religious persecution. This is protection of the weak and innocent. Lets make polygamy legal - they can practice their religion all they want IF: You support your wives and families with YOUR OWN MONEY. All the children are raised to adulthood (not just the girls) with an education equal to or better than Utah state standards require. The children are allowed to leave the compounds/communities to go to college, work, or whatever they want. The women are all at least 18 and finished with school before they marry. Other laws are kept IE. vital records/child labor/tax fraud. Theses guys just claim persecution to protect them from prosecution.
This is NOT religious persecution. This is protection of the weak and innocent. Lets make polygamy legal - they can practice their religion all they want IF: You support your wives and families with YOUR OWN MONEY. All the children are raised to adulthood (not just the girls) with an education equal to or better than Utah state standards require. The children are allowed to leave the compounds/communities to go to college, work, or whatever they want. The women are all at least 18 and finished with school before they marry. Other laws are kept IE. vital records/child labor/tax fraud. Theses guys just claim persecution to protect them from prosecution.
Synergistic ? | 2:01 p.m. May 9, 2008
Is this a synergistic problem or the Butter Fly Effect. Or what's good for
the goose is good for the gander.
If you make Gay Marriage legal how about polygamous marriage?
If you let illegal immigrants use governmental resources and welfare then why not polygamous communities?
Maybe legality of polygamy would spread the gene pool around more so there are not so many defects from the inbreading.
What is the answer?
I am not for polygamy but there must be equality or here's a novel idea... just enforce the laws in place and across the board.
If you make Gay Marriage legal how about polygamous marriage?
If you let illegal immigrants use governmental resources and welfare then why not polygamous communities?
Maybe legality of polygamy would spread the gene pool around more so there are not so many defects from the inbreading.
What is the answer?
I am not for polygamy but there must be equality or here's a novel idea... just enforce the laws in place and across the board.
wrz | 2:12 p.m. May 9, 2008
>>Yes, laws are laws and the FLDS should have been obeying
them.<<
You have a point... But, wait! That would mean that today blacks and whites would have separate restrooms, drinking fountains, and schools.
You have a point... But, wait! That would mean that today blacks and whites would have separate restrooms, drinking fountains, and schools.
Why | 2:16 p.m. May 9, 2008
I just wonder why the FLDS church moved to Texas. Don't they execute
people for speeding down there? Okay all kidding aside Utah really should let
Texas deal with their own problems, we have enough here to worry about.
all poligs | 2:28 p.m. May 9, 2008
welcome to utah, you can live on food stamps, medical care all in the name of
your religion. Yep Utah supports polygamy and be sure the AG won't bother
you. Than GOD TEXAS had the guts. How much money is the Utah AG getting in
supporting polygamy? For sure you won't have my vote
FLDS | 2:35 p.m. May 9, 2008
Tax payers are supporting Polygamy, only a few weeks ago the number of dollars
they collect was published, it is over whelming. Why are the fathers not being
made to pay child support like other dead beat fathers. Oh this is a religion
so therefore we can't interfere WRONG As a tax payer I begrudge
supporting this religion or any others with my tax dollars. Is the AG getting a
cut on this welfare fraud?
no, wrz | 2:58 p.m. May 9, 2008
unless by "today" you mean 1955.
buy a calendar.
buy a calendar.
Joyce | 3:05 p.m. May 9, 2008
IF these children are from Utah, were they kidnapped by the FLDS and taken to
Texas?
These children have NO parents.
These children have NO parents.
Jon W | 3:44 p.m. May 9, 2008
"These children have NO parents."
Yep, they all just crawled out from under a cabbage leaf.
Yes it is wrong for the polygamists to rely on state welfare (again, they have self-justifying religious reasons for doing so). But I believe the FLDS men are generally hard working - their construction skills and work ethic have drawn praise in Texas, at least. All the same, it just so dang hard for one man to support so many wives and children these days. That is one reason why, in periods of low infant mortality, no polygamist society can remain stable for more than a generation or so.
Yep, they all just crawled out from under a cabbage leaf.
Yes it is wrong for the polygamists to rely on state welfare (again, they have self-justifying religious reasons for doing so). But I believe the FLDS men are generally hard working - their construction skills and work ethic have drawn praise in Texas, at least. All the same, it just so dang hard for one man to support so many wives and children these days. That is one reason why, in periods of low infant mortality, no polygamist society can remain stable for more than a generation or so.
Bruce | 3:48 p.m. May 9, 2008
I've never seen so much hatred and heartlessness directed toward families
as has been demonstrated from people posting on various sited regarding this
matter. Why doesn't the LDS church speak up for these people? There seems
to be some unspoken hate from the LDS for the FLDS. The LDS seems to encourage
tolerance and respect for other faiths except when it comes to the faiths that
share the most common background with them. What's up with that?
Where's your tolerance and respect now?
Texas obviously changed their own laws to entrap these people. The official word on welfare recipiants is that, at least in Eldorado, the FLDS are way, way below average. (besides that..foster care costs taxpayers much more than welfare anyway) Polygamy has been against the law for way too long. The few I've known here in Montana are some of the most decent, polite, and hardworking folks that you'd ever want to know. Unless it's a case of prepubescent relations (pedophilia), of which there has been the grand total of zero alleged, leave them alone and let them practice their religion.
Texas obviously changed their own laws to entrap these people. The official word on welfare recipiants is that, at least in Eldorado, the FLDS are way, way below average. (besides that..foster care costs taxpayers much more than welfare anyway) Polygamy has been against the law for way too long. The few I've known here in Montana are some of the most decent, polite, and hardworking folks that you'd ever want to know. Unless it's a case of prepubescent relations (pedophilia), of which there has been the grand total of zero alleged, leave them alone and let them practice their religion.
charlotte | 8:14 p.m. May 9, 2008
Excuse me, but it is not entrapment if the duly elected leg. enacts new laws and
then enforces them. It is done every time the leg. meets.
Pedophilia is horrid. And no way can anyone condone it. And, to stretch things to talk about no allegations? R U kidding? Don't you read the papers? Watch any news? Listen to the radio? Go online?
I am surprised by one major thrust in this forum: people continue to support polygamy and all of its crimes. That is a wonderment. Polygamy is against the law. Unless, of course, the church fathers wink wink wink wink at it... and the AG knows his marching orders.
Messed up church and state. good grief.
Pedophilia is horrid. And no way can anyone condone it. And, to stretch things to talk about no allegations? R U kidding? Don't you read the papers? Watch any news? Listen to the radio? Go online?
I am surprised by one major thrust in this forum: people continue to support polygamy and all of its crimes. That is a wonderment. Polygamy is against the law. Unless, of course, the church fathers wink wink wink wink at it... and the AG knows his marching orders.
Messed up church and state. good grief.
B L in Dallas | 8:47 p.m. May 9, 2008
I'm a Christian and don't believe in polygamy, but I think it's
totally a violation of their constitutional and civil rights, and freedom of
religious practice to RAID their community. AND with a TANK and GUNS?
To enter a community (not compound) and remove all the children from a body of believers due to the bogus report which was later discovered to be a COMPLETE HOAX is evidence of overreaching from the government in personal lives of residents.
Who is next? The Jews? Other christians? Other ethnic groups? Doesn't each American see where this is heading?
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please write in and support the LAND OF THE FREE and what WE stand for as Americans.
Yes, if there is a crime commited and there is CONCRETE evidence - it is to be pursued on an individual basis, not to raid a whole community of possible innocents...and confiscate their children...and violate their parental rights!!!
So if you don't know it is true and you just take every child away from their parents...UNBELIEVABLE!!!
To enter a community (not compound) and remove all the children from a body of believers due to the bogus report which was later discovered to be a COMPLETE HOAX is evidence of overreaching from the government in personal lives of residents.
Who is next? The Jews? Other christians? Other ethnic groups? Doesn't each American see where this is heading?
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please write in and support the LAND OF THE FREE and what WE stand for as Americans.
Yes, if there is a crime commited and there is CONCRETE evidence - it is to be pursued on an individual basis, not to raid a whole community of possible innocents...and confiscate their children...and violate their parental rights!!!
So if you don't know it is true and you just take every child away from their parents...UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Freddie | 8:49 p.m. May 9, 2008
----Excuse me, but it is not entrapment if the duly elected leg. enacts new laws
and then enforces them. It is done every time the leg. meets.----
You're excused. But the entrapment was that, for years and years Texas allowed 14 year old girls to marry. When FLDS came along they changed the law... specifically to nail (read: trap) them.
You're excused. But the entrapment was that, for years and years Texas allowed 14 year old girls to marry. When FLDS came along they changed the law... specifically to nail (read: trap) them.
Brother Chuck Schroeder | 8:54 p.m. May 9, 2008
Remember, the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals,
communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
A. Molesting children is against the law.
B. Raping a child is against the law.
C. Polygamy is against the law.
FLDS is an EVIL CULT - and all should be tossed into Prison for "LIFE". These kid's also need to be adopted out to a REAL set of Parent's to.
A. Molesting children is against the law.
B. Raping a child is against the law.
C. Polygamy is against the law.
FLDS is an EVIL CULT - and all should be tossed into Prison for "LIFE". These kid's also need to be adopted out to a REAL set of Parent's to.
Bruce | 8:55 p.m. May 9, 2008
OK. Just looked over lists of allegations and there are absolutly no
allegations of pedophilia.
The only allegations toward underage sex have been toward post-pubescent females...that is NOT pedophilia. Yes, I "read the papers..watch news, listen to the radio" etc. I also have a dictionary...and sex with a post-pubescent female has nothing to do with being a pedophile.
There was also an attempt by Texas CPS to allege that underage boys were molested but they later backcrawled and said that if that were true, it was probably by other boys...not adults....not pedophilia. That was just like the "broken bones" thing that everyone saw right through.
This case is going to set the bar for governmental abuse of constitutional rights in the future.
Start by abusing the rights of peace-loving folks like FLDS, get the public accepting of that and move on to everyone else later.
The only allegations toward underage sex have been toward post-pubescent females...that is NOT pedophilia. Yes, I "read the papers..watch news, listen to the radio" etc. I also have a dictionary...and sex with a post-pubescent female has nothing to do with being a pedophile.
There was also an attempt by Texas CPS to allege that underage boys were molested but they later backcrawled and said that if that were true, it was probably by other boys...not adults....not pedophilia. That was just like the "broken bones" thing that everyone saw right through.
This case is going to set the bar for governmental abuse of constitutional rights in the future.
Start by abusing the rights of peace-loving folks like FLDS, get the public accepting of that and move on to everyone else later.
Anonymous | 1:04 a.m. May 10, 2008
"These children have been kept in a closed society that does not allow for
independent thinking and understanding of the world that they live in."
Using your flawed thinking we could take away the children of the Amish and all the small communities that are not of the norm.
Using your flawed thinking we could take away the children of the Amish and all the small communities that are not of the norm.
me again | 12:28 p.m. May 12, 2008
Oh yes! By all means, get those children back into the cycle of oppression and
abuse. You go!! How DARE Texas go in there and rescue those children.
Texas I praise your efforts at bringing liberty for these children and hopefully striking through the heart of this illegal, damaging practice of polygamy!!!
Texas I praise your efforts at bringing liberty for these children and hopefully striking through the heart of this illegal, damaging practice of polygamy!!!
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The case is in Texas, ya-all.