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Utah Jazz: Fisher's familiarity with Utah offense, defense making him an integral figure
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pete | 1:53 a.m. May 9, 2008
we need dwill to take it to fish. fish can't stop dwill. if the refs
would quit being so biased dwill will get the calls her should be getting and
maybe he will go to the line 22 times.
More of the Riddle | 1:57 a.m. May 9, 2008
How is it that the team that scores considerably more points in the paint goes
to line half as many times?
After writing the first post, I decided to look at head-to-head competition. Over the four games played during the regular season, the Jazz were called for 100 fouls, the Lakers 93 (that's an average difference of 1.75 fouls per game). In this series, the difference is 8 fouls per game.
Again, the more telling stat is free throws. During the regular season series, the Lakers shot 122 free throws, the Jazz shot 123 (both team made 88). Did you all get that? During the regular season games between these teams, the Jazz actually shot 1 more free throw while committing a few more fouls (expected from the more physical team that gets more points in the paint). So, in comparison to the regular season series, the Jazz are shooting over 25% FEWER free throws, and the Lakers are shooting 46% MORE free throws. (Note: during the regular season, the home team did have a slight advantage).
After writing the first post, I decided to look at head-to-head competition. Over the four games played during the regular season, the Jazz were called for 100 fouls, the Lakers 93 (that's an average difference of 1.75 fouls per game). In this series, the difference is 8 fouls per game.
Again, the more telling stat is free throws. During the regular season series, the Lakers shot 122 free throws, the Jazz shot 123 (both team made 88). Did you all get that? During the regular season games between these teams, the Jazz actually shot 1 more free throw while committing a few more fouls (expected from the more physical team that gets more points in the paint). So, in comparison to the regular season series, the Jazz are shooting over 25% FEWER free throws, and the Lakers are shooting 46% MORE free throws. (Note: during the regular season, the home team did have a slight advantage).
Comments continue below
The Final Riddle | 2:06 a.m. May 9, 2008
Bottom line: Based on head-to-head averages, free throws made a 13 point
difference in game 1 (Lakers by 11), and a 22 point difference in game 2 (Lakers
by 10).
Call me a homer, a whiner, or whatever you want, but the numbers don't lie. Nothing has changed so much in the past few months (no, not even "Gift Gasol") to justify these discrepencies. If these games had been called straight, or even reasonably straight, the Jazz win game 2, and game 1 is at least a lot more interesting.
Call me a homer, a whiner, or whatever you want, but the numbers don't lie. Nothing has changed so much in the past few months (no, not even "Gift Gasol") to justify these discrepencies. If these games had been called straight, or even reasonably straight, the Jazz win game 2, and game 1 is at least a lot more interesting.
JOE | 6:43 a.m. May 9, 2008
If Jazz win both games at home this will be a series if they drop ONE at home
series is over
Mike | 7:06 a.m. May 9, 2008
It isn't about Fisher knowing some plays, it comes down to execution. Most
players learn more from the video breakdowns of other teams anyway. What has
been hurting the Jazz so far is poor execution of their set plays and poor
spacing, which has led to the rash of long jumpers, often missed.
Riddler | 7:33 a.m. May 9, 2008
Thank you for a well thought out and reasoned analysis of the reffering. Games
one and two were hard to watch and looked very fishy. I think the two games and
probably the rest of the series will be better offiated as the NBA knows it has
put Utah in too big a whole to climb out of. They will make it look more legit
from here out and may even give the Jazz a game or two so that they can point at
them and say, "see the Jazz got theirs too."
Jazz cry babies | 8:10 a.m. May 9, 2008
maybe if your team made some shots from the floor you might win a game. stop
blaming the refs. stop committing fouls. stop being a bunch of self centered cry
babies. stop being poor sports. gett a grip here, your team has not performed.
end of statement. it is not the fault of anyone but the jazz players who are not
making baskets.
to the riddlers | 8:35 a.m. May 9, 2008
Actually - the Lakers had 27 fouls called against them in game 1 which is a 31%
increase. Same as the Jazz average so far. So your theory about percentage lift
is off in game 1 and as for game 2, the Lakers held to their average with only a
0.6 difference which is statistically insignificant. (-0.02%).
Now - if you actually take off the end of game fouls that the Jazz were forced to commit to stop the clock. Coaches do it all the time and in Game 1 they committed 5 of them. In game 2 they committed another 4 of them by my count. Go rewatch if you disagree.
That makes the Jazz difference a 10% increase which is less than the Lakers percentage increase. If you disagree with how many end of game fouls were committed to stop the clock go back and watch. The stats speak for themselves. And your complaint about reffing is unfounded and ignorant when Sloan complained about his teams poor defense and "jersey pulling" fouls to make of for slow feet.
Just accept the fact that the Jazz were outplayed and move on.
Now - if you actually take off the end of game fouls that the Jazz were forced to commit to stop the clock. Coaches do it all the time and in Game 1 they committed 5 of them. In game 2 they committed another 4 of them by my count. Go rewatch if you disagree.
That makes the Jazz difference a 10% increase which is less than the Lakers percentage increase. If you disagree with how many end of game fouls were committed to stop the clock go back and watch. The stats speak for themselves. And your complaint about reffing is unfounded and ignorant when Sloan complained about his teams poor defense and "jersey pulling" fouls to make of for slow feet.
Just accept the fact that the Jazz were outplayed and move on.
riddles vs. reality | 9:06 a.m. May 9, 2008
Game 1
Lakers - 27 fouls (31% higher than season avg)
Jazz - 33 fouls (37.5% higher than season avg)
First of all - the 6% difference is statistically insignificant but if you take off the 5 fouls that the Jazz forced to stop the clock at the end of GM1 the Jazz line becomes:
Jazz - 27 fouls (16.6% higher than season avg)
Game 2
Lakers - 20 fouls (-0.02% less than season avg)
Jazz - 30 fouls (25% higher than season avg)
Again, take off fouls forced for end of game clock management (I counted 4). The new line becomes:
Jazz - 25 fouls (8% higher than season avg). This is statistically insignificant.
So, you want statistics...you've got them now. And in the words of all the Jazz fan apologists out there "Stats don't lie". What will you do with that? Complain some more and say that now the stats no longer matter? Or will you accept that the difference in fouls has more to do with game clock management and "jersey pulling" and "slow feet" as Sloan reported in the post game interview? Who's right? You or Sloan?
Lakers - 27 fouls (31% higher than season avg)
Jazz - 33 fouls (37.5% higher than season avg)
First of all - the 6% difference is statistically insignificant but if you take off the 5 fouls that the Jazz forced to stop the clock at the end of GM1 the Jazz line becomes:
Jazz - 27 fouls (16.6% higher than season avg)
Game 2
Lakers - 20 fouls (-0.02% less than season avg)
Jazz - 30 fouls (25% higher than season avg)
Again, take off fouls forced for end of game clock management (I counted 4). The new line becomes:
Jazz - 25 fouls (8% higher than season avg). This is statistically insignificant.
So, you want statistics...you've got them now. And in the words of all the Jazz fan apologists out there "Stats don't lie". What will you do with that? Complain some more and say that now the stats no longer matter? Or will you accept that the difference in fouls has more to do with game clock management and "jersey pulling" and "slow feet" as Sloan reported in the post game interview? Who's right? You or Sloan?
Craig W. | 9:14 a.m. May 9, 2008
Using regular season statistics and comparing them with playoff statistics is a
very slippery slope. For one, half the league was left out of the playoff - the
part that couldn't compete as well. For another, teams play each other
repeatedly and are able to adjust from game to game.
This means that your competition in the playoffs should be both better and able to adjust more easily. How has Sloan handled adjustments? What can the Jazz do about the speed and cuts in the triangle offense?
If you rely on bodying up on players, you better not reach against a quicker player or you are going to get called for a foul. Against quicker players on offense you have to back them down and overpower them - that's the way to pick up fouls on them.
These are the things the Jazz are talking about, not the officiating.
This means that your competition in the playoffs should be both better and able to adjust more easily. How has Sloan handled adjustments? What can the Jazz do about the speed and cuts in the triangle offense?
If you rely on bodying up on players, you better not reach against a quicker player or you are going to get called for a foul. Against quicker players on offense you have to back them down and overpower them - that's the way to pick up fouls on them.
These are the things the Jazz are talking about, not the officiating.
Fisher fiasco | 9:17 a.m. May 9, 2008
Isn't it ironic that Derek Fisher will be the one to put a dagger into our
hearts after the Jazz so honorably let him out of his contract.
I don't critize Larry for his decision.
But why couldn't they stipulate a non compete clause that he couldn't join a team in the Western Conference?
His daughter's surgery was in New York. To me that would have been the best option for all parties involved.
I don't critize Larry for his decision.
But why couldn't they stipulate a non compete clause that he couldn't join a team in the Western Conference?
His daughter's surgery was in New York. To me that would have been the best option for all parties involved.
Anonymous | 9:24 a.m. May 9, 2008
Its not that Fisher knows the plays, but that he knows the players. He knows
their tendencies, their favorite moves, angles, 2nd and 3rd options. That is
why he is huge in this series. Think Nellie and the Warriors last year vs. the
Mavericks. Nellie knew Dirk's every move. Fisher literally left one
corporation to work for their direct rival. Think about it in business terms.
Why do you think some businesses have a no competition clause in their
contracts. That if they leave they cant be a direct competitor for a set period
of time. I am not saying it isnt fair or that Fisher is cheating, but it is no
coincidence that Fisher had 6 steals in game 1. I think highly of Fisher and I
think he has a bad rap.
RE: To the Riddlers | 9:47 a.m. May 9, 2008
1) I already noted in the first post that the Lakers were called for more fouls
than their SEASON average (overall 14%), but the Jazz are being called for 31%
more.
2) As far as averages, where are you getting your numbers? During the season series, the Jazz averaged 25 and the Lakers 23.25. In this series, the averages are 23.5 for the Lakers and 31.5 for the Jazz. So you are right in that the Lakers are close to their REGULAR SEASON SERIES average (I never disputed this).
3) The biggest problem is not the fouls, but the free throws (the discrepency is ridiculous).
4) As for end-of-game free throws: In game 2, the Lakers made 11. Even if you take away all of those free throws, statistics show that there was a 13 point discrepency. In game 1, the Lakers made 9 end-of-game freebies. Taking those away, the discrepency is 5 points, which, as I said before, would have at least made the games more interesting.
5) when you bring up Sloan, you are the one who sounds ignorant. He says the same things whether his team gets beat by 10 or wins by 20.
2) As far as averages, where are you getting your numbers? During the season series, the Jazz averaged 25 and the Lakers 23.25. In this series, the averages are 23.5 for the Lakers and 31.5 for the Jazz. So you are right in that the Lakers are close to their REGULAR SEASON SERIES average (I never disputed this).
3) The biggest problem is not the fouls, but the free throws (the discrepency is ridiculous).
4) As for end-of-game free throws: In game 2, the Lakers made 11. Even if you take away all of those free throws, statistics show that there was a 13 point discrepency. In game 1, the Lakers made 9 end-of-game freebies. Taking those away, the discrepency is 5 points, which, as I said before, would have at least made the games more interesting.
5) when you bring up Sloan, you are the one who sounds ignorant. He says the same things whether his team gets beat by 10 or wins by 20.
riddles vs. reality | 9:59 a.m. May 9, 2008
You guys keep using the wrong stats. Stop looking at the individual team
averages and start looking at the averages for HEAD-TO-HEAD COMPETITION. Yes,
in my first post, I used some stats from overall season averages. However, in
subsequent posts I have corrected that (I even corrected for end-of-game
fouls).
So for "to the Riddlers", "riddles vs. reality", et al., if you want to play the numbers game, use the most accurate numbers. Numbers don't lie and my numbers are right.
It's hard to see your team lose when they get homered. However, I think it must be even harder to watch your team win when you know they don't deserve it; as a Jazz fan, I've never actually experienced this, but the Lakers fans have to feel this all the time. I kinda feel sorry for them.
So for "to the Riddlers", "riddles vs. reality", et al., if you want to play the numbers game, use the most accurate numbers. Numbers don't lie and my numbers are right.
It's hard to see your team lose when they get homered. However, I think it must be even harder to watch your team win when you know they don't deserve it; as a Jazz fan, I've never actually experienced this, but the Lakers fans have to feel this all the time. I kinda feel sorry for them.
To Fisher Fiasco | 10:07 a.m. May 9, 2008
I totally agree with you. I think Fisher is a cheap skape. He knew he wanted
to go back to L.A. and used his daughters illness as an excuse. Why would you
have a doctor in New York and then go to L.A? We have as good of doctors as
anywhere. I hope the Jazz stomp the lakers and fisher.
Ready to boo Fish | 10:13 a.m. May 9, 2008
He is the X-FActor for the Lakers and traditionally in the playoffs those
players will always get boo'ed. (ex. Manu Ginobli)
Fisher shouldn't be an exception, and I hope the fans boo him tonight. He is hurting the Jazz more than anyone else on the Lakers. Bottom line is that he left the Jazz and is now with the Lakers and is using the knowledge he gained here against us. He is keeping his former team from reaching our goal of a championship.
Fisher shouldn't be an exception, and I hope the fans boo him tonight. He is hurting the Jazz more than anyone else on the Lakers. Bottom line is that he left the Jazz and is now with the Lakers and is using the knowledge he gained here against us. He is keeping his former team from reaching our goal of a championship.
LHM | 10:26 a.m. May 9, 2008
LHM holds the bag on the Fisher thing. I don't have a problem with Fish
jumping ship to a percieved better medical care situation, but LHM should have
at least considered trade options or done something to prevent Fish from signing
with the enemy. I know, I know, all NBA teams are the enemy but who can
disagree that the Lakers are the single team LHM should have taken measures to
prevent him from joining. LHM owes more to the organization than he ever owes
to individuals. He should have prevented such an easy steal by the Lakers.
Jazz Fan (The Original) | 10:29 a.m. May 9, 2008
Who cares about all the hair splitting on fouls...the point of the matter is
that Kobe Bryant is being protected by the officials, and he can wack arms in
his so-called steals. Boozer gets fouled every time the ball is jarred loose
from him. The Jazz need to go hard to the basket, even though the playoffs have
shown that Houston and now the Lakers have clogged up the lane. The Jazz are
clearly at a disadvantage in the ballhandling vs most of the teams in the
league. They get the job done with grit taking care of the glass for the most
part. They need to put the hammer on Derek Fisher and the other Laker guards
early. So far Derek has had a pass on shooting the ball with no one in his
face. He is also getting superior screening from his teammates to free him up.
The Jazz is also packing it in more and more to stop opponents driving the lane.
It will come down to continued adjustments and who can execute. Boozer also
needs to drive hard to the rack until he can get squared away on his jumpshot.
He is forced beyond his range.
HUH? | 10:30 a.m. May 9, 2008
During the Rocket series, the talk was all about how even Tracy Mcgrady's
grandmother knew what the Jazz were going to do, but now, suddenly, Derek Fisher
has found some keen insight into a mysterious system that was hertofore an
enigma? Only he has the wisdom to crack the Jazz code, because he was here for
fifteen minutes? Please, Fisher knows nothing more than anyone else about the
Jazz, but he'd sure like us all to think it was his cleverness, not the
Jazz nerves that was causing the disruption. Stop hopping off the bandwagon
folks, we haven't even played a home game yet. This baby is far from over.
Instant replay | 10:37 a.m. May 9, 2008
Stern picked his faves from the beginning. Jazz getting fair calls is out of
the question at this point. Face reality, NBA is a hoax in the play-offs. You
think it's time for instant replay? Like No Duh!!!!
BBallLaker | 10:45 a.m. May 9, 2008
Riddler....you say the Lakers don't deserve to win. Who made you judge and
jury? Out of the last 6 games played against the Lakers the Jazz have one only
one game. The Lakers are 5-1 against you. The last season win (10+ point
slaughter) for the Lakers came on your home floor. Facts are facts. The Jazz MAY
win one game......maybe. The wild card is the Spade Joker.....named Kobe. Boo
D-Fish and witness the utter destruction of your beloved Jazz. [NEWS FLASH TO
JAZZ FANS......TO CONSERVE OUR NATURAL RESOURCES PLEASE ONLY THROW
BIO-DEGRADABLE ON TO THE FLOOR TONIGHT]
To riddler | 11:08 a.m. May 9, 2008
If you really knew about statistics, you would know that a sample size of two
games isn't enough to make any statistical analysis
"significant".
Boo D-Fish tonight! | 11:45 a.m. May 9, 2008
Boo Derek Fisher tonight....Laker fans LOVE the fire it lights in all the Laker
players especially Kobe!
conspiracy | 12:19 p.m. May 9, 2008
Has anyone else noticed that the Celtics and the Lakers, after years of lousy
hoops by Boston, and a several year downturn by LA, both seemed to get numerous
birthday presents from a league desperate for ratings in the big cities?
LA got Derek Fisher without compensation to the Jazz and then stole Pau Gasol for next to nothing.(Memphis is still under the influence if not outright direction of Mr. Laker, Jerry West). Boston robbed the t-wolves of Kevin Garnett (gosh, wasn't Kevin McHale a Celtic?) and Ray Allen from a team that was on its way out of town and not likely to complain at the theft of a superstar when facing the loss of a whole team. Wow!
Call me crazy but have you EVER seen FOUR all-star and even MVP calliber players trade teams in the primes of their careers for so little in return? How about even ONE superstar? Please name one deal that was so unbalanced, let alone four going to two teams. And don't tell me that Mitch Kupcheck and Danny Ainge are just smarter than everyone else; they were both 10 minutes from unemployment a year ago. Something smells like Kobe's sweatsocks!
LA got Derek Fisher without compensation to the Jazz and then stole Pau Gasol for next to nothing.(Memphis is still under the influence if not outright direction of Mr. Laker, Jerry West). Boston robbed the t-wolves of Kevin Garnett (gosh, wasn't Kevin McHale a Celtic?) and Ray Allen from a team that was on its way out of town and not likely to complain at the theft of a superstar when facing the loss of a whole team. Wow!
Call me crazy but have you EVER seen FOUR all-star and even MVP calliber players trade teams in the primes of their careers for so little in return? How about even ONE superstar? Please name one deal that was so unbalanced, let alone four going to two teams. And don't tell me that Mitch Kupcheck and Danny Ainge are just smarter than everyone else; they were both 10 minutes from unemployment a year ago. Something smells like Kobe's sweatsocks!
re: to the Riddlers | 12:21 p.m. May 9, 2008
FG discrepency:
FG%
Jazz- 81/196 (41%)
Lakers - 72/141 (51%)
Off-Reb
Jazz-41
Lakers-12
Look at the math. The Jazz shot a lower percentage resulting in more off-rebs. The Jazz subsequently shot 29 more FGs than the Lakers on off-reb alone. To equivilize this subtract the 29 off-reb shots and you have a 26 FGA difference -13/game. Not unusual at all in a game. Kudos to the Jazz for outrebounding the Lakers but the Jazz need to hit their shots.
FT Discrepency:
Kobe/Odom/Gasol account for 67/89 FT the Lakers have taken so far. Kobe is 35/89 himself. Each of these three players have had 80-90% of the FT from driving the lane and according to Sloan, getting pushed in the back, jerseys pulled etc. Watch the game-if you don't see it you're blind. Meanwhile the Jazz have turned into a fade-away jump-shooting team. Okur avg 3 FTA/game in regular season=soft for a center. Jazz fans all admit Boozer's a no-show on offense/defence. Kirilenko has stopped driving and Brewer/DWill rarely drive.
Watch the games again. Lakers drove on majority of posessions and Jazz took jump shots. There's your scouting report. Numbers have context behind them-so don't make yourself look ignorant.
FG%
Jazz- 81/196 (41%)
Lakers - 72/141 (51%)
Off-Reb
Jazz-41
Lakers-12
Look at the math. The Jazz shot a lower percentage resulting in more off-rebs. The Jazz subsequently shot 29 more FGs than the Lakers on off-reb alone. To equivilize this subtract the 29 off-reb shots and you have a 26 FGA difference -13/game. Not unusual at all in a game. Kudos to the Jazz for outrebounding the Lakers but the Jazz need to hit their shots.
FT Discrepency:
Kobe/Odom/Gasol account for 67/89 FT the Lakers have taken so far. Kobe is 35/89 himself. Each of these three players have had 80-90% of the FT from driving the lane and according to Sloan, getting pushed in the back, jerseys pulled etc. Watch the game-if you don't see it you're blind. Meanwhile the Jazz have turned into a fade-away jump-shooting team. Okur avg 3 FTA/game in regular season=soft for a center. Jazz fans all admit Boozer's a no-show on offense/defence. Kirilenko has stopped driving and Brewer/DWill rarely drive.
Watch the games again. Lakers drove on majority of posessions and Jazz took jump shots. There's your scouting report. Numbers have context behind them-so don't make yourself look ignorant.
re: To Riddler | 12:32 p.m. May 9, 2008
Well, he doesn't know statistics cause it's like I said earlier.
Numbers have context and he doesn't get any of the context.
It's simple math.
(Jazz outrebound the Lakers on the offensive board by 29) + (Lakers have more TO than the Jazz by 4) = 33 more shots the Jazz will take than the Lakers.
What was the FGA balance?
Jazz-196
Lakers-141
= 55 FGA difference
(55 FGA difference)-(33 additional FGA)= 22 Shot discrepency.
We're talking in each game, the Jazz only had 11 more FGA.
The context here is that if the Jazz had shot better than 41% they'd likely be up 2-0 or at least tied. Or, go the other way, if the Lakers hadn't been killed on the offensive rebounds (pretty close on defensive) they'd have blown the Jazz out by 20 each game.
The reason the Jazz FG% was lower is because they shot a high percentage of fade-away jump shots which results in more misses, fewer FT. Ask any coach, the more you drive the higher your percentage and more FT you get. Now, Okur is the only player who's even playing inside the key so what do the Jazz fans expect?
It's simple math.
(Jazz outrebound the Lakers on the offensive board by 29) + (Lakers have more TO than the Jazz by 4) = 33 more shots the Jazz will take than the Lakers.
What was the FGA balance?
Jazz-196
Lakers-141
= 55 FGA difference
(55 FGA difference)-(33 additional FGA)= 22 Shot discrepency.
We're talking in each game, the Jazz only had 11 more FGA.
The context here is that if the Jazz had shot better than 41% they'd likely be up 2-0 or at least tied. Or, go the other way, if the Lakers hadn't been killed on the offensive rebounds (pretty close on defensive) they'd have blown the Jazz out by 20 each game.
The reason the Jazz FG% was lower is because they shot a high percentage of fade-away jump shots which results in more misses, fewer FT. Ask any coach, the more you drive the higher your percentage and more FT you get. Now, Okur is the only player who's even playing inside the key so what do the Jazz fans expect?
re: conspiracy | 12:47 p.m. May 9, 2008
I agree - well thought out. After the league made people not suspect the
Celtics for 15+ years by making them a bottom team/bubble-playoff team with no
championship hopes, they pulled their secret strings and decided to give them a
60+ game win season. But, they didn't want to be too obvious so they let
the Hawks take 3 games in round 1.
Well Played Mr. Stern...Well Played.
Well Played Mr. Stern...Well Played.
Sokol | 1:39 p.m. May 9, 2008
Fisher is a cheater and a con artist. I hope they
stop the Denmaster and his Laker Softies...
stop the Denmaster and his Laker Softies...
Fish isn't the Problem; West is | 1:52 p.m. May 9, 2008
Letting Fish go, even without a non-compete was not the problem. I would go so
far as to conjecture that LHM knew that Fish would sign with the Lakers.
However, you have to remember the context from last summer. The Lakers were not
even on the radar screen last summer. They made no significant off-season
acquisitions and Kobe was complaining about his weak supporting cast and
demanding a trade. The incredulous trade by the Grizzlies of Pau Gasol to an
intraconference foe, now that wreaks of front-office impropriety. We all know
that Jerry West is a Laker at heart and always will be. No one would have ever
believed that a team would trade away its core talent, a big with soft hands,
quick feet and a soft touch around the basket for what can only be equated with
dog food (Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, guard Aaron McKie, the rights to Marc
Gasol (Pau's little brother who has averaged less than 10 points a game in
international play) and first round picks in '08 and '10). It's
pretty obvious that West and the Laker front-office have some side arrangement.
Maybe he'll be announced the Laker's new GM in the offseason.
JT | 1:57 p.m. May 9, 2008
You have to love the selective reasoning of fans in despair.
It never ends, the argument about small market teams never having a chance and the league and Stern cheating in favor of big markets to "make more money."
So why don't Jazz fans who make such lame arguments explain how San Antonio has won 4, repeat FOUR championships in the last decade???
Also, the idea that Stern and the league would intentionally interfere and fix reffing to help big market teams so they can make more money is absurd.
The league consists of several teams across a spectrum of market sizes, the number one factor which will lead to a profitable league is COMPETITION amongst the entire league. This is why so many rules have been created around trading, salaries, etc, to try and level the field. The sum of the many small market teams outweighs or at least equals the few big markets. If evidence ever surface of league cheating in this regard or even suspected with sound evidence (not dumb fans with conspiracy theories) , the end result would be bankruptcy, not extra profits for the NBA.
It never ends, the argument about small market teams never having a chance and the league and Stern cheating in favor of big markets to "make more money."
So why don't Jazz fans who make such lame arguments explain how San Antonio has won 4, repeat FOUR championships in the last decade???
Also, the idea that Stern and the league would intentionally interfere and fix reffing to help big market teams so they can make more money is absurd.
The league consists of several teams across a spectrum of market sizes, the number one factor which will lead to a profitable league is COMPETITION amongst the entire league. This is why so many rules have been created around trading, salaries, etc, to try and level the field. The sum of the many small market teams outweighs or at least equals the few big markets. If evidence ever surface of league cheating in this regard or even suspected with sound evidence (not dumb fans with conspiracy theories) , the end result would be bankruptcy, not extra profits for the NBA.
SouthpawJesus | 2:18 p.m. May 9, 2008
Do you listen to yourselves when you talk? Fisher left almost $7 million on the
table to sign with the Lakers. He left a team that had just made the western
conference finals to go to a team coming apart at the seams. He gave up $7
million and joined a club in talks to trade its best player and plummet to the
lottery. And you hate him for doing this to take care of his baby girl? You
want to think about why he might have moved to LA and not New York? How about
history? He has friends and his family has lived there before. Just as an easy
transition the move to LA made sense. Add in the reality that the Knicks are WAY
over the cap and have no money to sign anyone, and the Nets are trying to CUT
salary and you have the reason he signed in LA. You guys that go around calling
Fish awful names should be ashamed of yourselves. He's been nothing but a
gentleman making sacrifices for his family.
re: Sokol | 2:32 p.m. May 9, 2008
. . . "Fisher is a cheater and a con artist"
This must be really under your skin. It makes me laugh - as a Lakers fan and an NBA fan that you seem to have blinders on. Everything hasn't worked out for you and so you are raging. You feel anger. You feel betrayed. Most of all you haven't won jack and it makes you realize that if you couldn't do it with Stockton/Malone or DWill/Boozer that you never will. Face it unless Utah drafts lucky, they're likely to not attract top talent to Utah. Boozer was a rate exception in the Jazz history of trades/signings.
As for Fisher, even if you question how much of his daughter's care is in NY vs. LA the fact is, his daughter still has A TUMOR IN HER EYE. Meanwhile, as a happy-go-lucky Jazz fan you have no problems with Boozer promising to sign with the Cavs for $40MM if they remove his restricted free agent status and then signing with the Jazz for more money. Not exactly the same as Fisher leaving for less money to take care of his daughters TUMOR IN HER EYE
This must be really under your skin. It makes me laugh - as a Lakers fan and an NBA fan that you seem to have blinders on. Everything hasn't worked out for you and so you are raging. You feel anger. You feel betrayed. Most of all you haven't won jack and it makes you realize that if you couldn't do it with Stockton/Malone or DWill/Boozer that you never will. Face it unless Utah drafts lucky, they're likely to not attract top talent to Utah. Boozer was a rate exception in the Jazz history of trades/signings.
As for Fisher, even if you question how much of his daughter's care is in NY vs. LA the fact is, his daughter still has A TUMOR IN HER EYE. Meanwhile, as a happy-go-lucky Jazz fan you have no problems with Boozer promising to sign with the Cavs for $40MM if they remove his restricted free agent status and then signing with the Jazz for more money. Not exactly the same as Fisher leaving for less money to take care of his daughters TUMOR IN HER EYE
riddle back-up | 2:57 p.m. May 9, 2008
to all you faker fans out there trying to justify this by saying that the Jazz
have taken 4-5 intentional fouls at the end of the games so the foul total
isn't really that skewed need to take something else into consideration:
The 3 extra fouls that the fakers take intentionally each game. Since the Jazz are never in the bonus (maybe 1 quarter a game), the Lakers have taken intentional fouls at the end of each quarter. That's at least 2 off of their total and we're back to statistical significance.
The sad thing is that those intentional fouls are the ONLY fouls that fish is getting called for, despite all the grabbing, bumping, and reaching that he's doing. (He didn't get away with those while wearing a Jazz uniform last year in the playoffs, BTW).
There's something a little 'fishy' going on.
The 3 extra fouls that the fakers take intentionally each game. Since the Jazz are never in the bonus (maybe 1 quarter a game), the Lakers have taken intentional fouls at the end of each quarter. That's at least 2 off of their total and we're back to statistical significance.
The sad thing is that those intentional fouls are the ONLY fouls that fish is getting called for, despite all the grabbing, bumping, and reaching that he's doing. (He didn't get away with those while wearing a Jazz uniform last year in the playoffs, BTW).
There's something a little 'fishy' going on.
Anonymous | 3:02 p.m. May 9, 2008
I'm not sure that most of the Jazz fans are calling for a conspiracy theory
against small-market teams, but I'm sick of the extra special treatment
that the superstars (MVPs) of the league get. They can do no wrong on the court
and the refs go a step further to hand them an extra few points each game on
bogus foul calls. It was that way with Jordan, and now with Kobe, Lebron, CP,
etc. Even Sahq had it for a while.
The sad thing is that for the lakers, fisher is getting away with it too, as well as walton, etc. It's not just a kobee thing, but a whole team situation now- and it and the nba reeks.
The sad thing is that for the lakers, fisher is getting away with it too, as well as walton, etc. It's not just a kobee thing, but a whole team situation now- and it and the nba reeks.
Cautiously Optomistic | 4:46 p.m. May 9, 2008
Re: Riddler
Excellent analysis and I commend you on your work. There will be detractors that will comment on "late-game fouls" or they will bring up the sample size (which is admittedly small but it all we have to work with). Some will talk about Jazz fans are just cry-babies and we must have a complex because we are a small market team.
Even with all of that said, I can tell you that the company that I work for would love to have a 5-10% increase in profits, even if it is for just one or two financial quarters. Let alone a 30% increase.
The numbers do speak the truth, whether or not anyone else wants to admit it. In addition to that, my gut usually speaks the truth and these last two games have been unwatchable. Both games I have turned off with about 4 minutes to go because I am certain that it won't get turned around. (Not to mention that when I Steve Javey is officiating I know that the Jazz don't stand much of a chance.)
Last comments: Boozer-PLAY D and figure out how to shoot! D-Will take the game over!
GO JAZZ!
Excellent analysis and I commend you on your work. There will be detractors that will comment on "late-game fouls" or they will bring up the sample size (which is admittedly small but it all we have to work with). Some will talk about Jazz fans are just cry-babies and we must have a complex because we are a small market team.
Even with all of that said, I can tell you that the company that I work for would love to have a 5-10% increase in profits, even if it is for just one or two financial quarters. Let alone a 30% increase.
The numbers do speak the truth, whether or not anyone else wants to admit it. In addition to that, my gut usually speaks the truth and these last two games have been unwatchable. Both games I have turned off with about 4 minutes to go because I am certain that it won't get turned around. (Not to mention that when I Steve Javey is officiating I know that the Jazz don't stand much of a chance.)
Last comments: Boozer-PLAY D and figure out how to shoot! D-Will take the game over!
GO JAZZ!
Sokol | 4:50 p.m. May 9, 2008
Maybe Fisher should go play for other cheaters like
the New England Patriots? Go Jazz. If the old
mighty buck were not able to influence NBA games, the Jazz would have two or three world championships.
the New England Patriots? Go Jazz. If the old
mighty buck were not able to influence NBA games, the Jazz would have two or three world championships.
Morons | 5:04 p.m. May 9, 2008
Oh yeah, that's right! The NBA hates small market teams so the Jazz will
never win a championship as long as they stay in Utah. Your team has no chance
whatsoever no matter how good they are.
So why are you still Jazz fans? Why are you still watching NBA games? Go find yourselves something else to do instead of wasting your time and being mad about these rigged games.
So why are you still Jazz fans? Why are you still watching NBA games? Go find yourselves something else to do instead of wasting your time and being mad about these rigged games.
HEY MORONS | 5:22 p.m. May 9, 2008
I think the bigger moronic thing to do is only cheer for big market teams so
that you don't have to take any risks.
We still cheer for the Jazz because they run their program the right way- without the cheating, drugs, DUI's, etc. and do it while having a hard time getting any players to want to come here. That's what makes it that much more satisfying when they do make a good run or have a great playoff series. They're doing it against much larger odds than the big market teams and their 'untouchable' MVPs.
We still cheer for the Jazz because they run their program the right way- without the cheating, drugs, DUI's, etc. and do it while having a hard time getting any players to want to come here. That's what makes it that much more satisfying when they do make a good run or have a great playoff series. They're doing it against much larger odds than the big market teams and their 'untouchable' MVPs.
Jazz lose series to Lakers | 5:50 p.m. May 9, 2008
are the Jazz fans whining?? or crying? or feeling like a loser that they
are....I am from Minnesota and I want to see the Lakers sweep the Jazz..make the
playoff more fun..i would love to read all of your crying blogs...
Re: Morons | 6:01 p.m. May 9, 2008
You have to understand that SLC is not LA. People here have nothing to do
except rooting for the Jazz. We have no choice because they're the only
thing we have in professional sports. We're kind of stuck with them.
It's funny how ... | 6:25 p.m. May 9, 2008
Utah fans had been praising their team for playing a physical and intimidating
style of basketball, but started whining non-stop as soon as the refs tightened
up their officiating.
re: cautiously optimistic | 7:13 p.m. May 9, 2008
Look - I get that you're trying to be even toned about this but your
company earning 5% topline or bottom line profit is nothing like getting 6 more
fouls each game.
When it comes to re:riddlers comments hey is making the numbers fit his story. If you can ignore every bit of statistical math and calculation from the earlier posts (12:21pm and 12:32pm) but think his off-hand comment then you need to either reread the posts or I dont know. There's probably not much more to say if you can't see it.
Good luck in the game tonight.
When it comes to re:riddlers comments hey is making the numbers fit his story. If you can ignore every bit of statistical math and calculation from the earlier posts (12:21pm and 12:32pm) but think his off-hand comment then you need to either reread the posts or I dont know. There's probably not much more to say if you can't see it.
Good luck in the game tonight.
Don't compare foul counts | 11:03 a.m. May 10, 2008
Foul counts mean nothing. Although every coach thinks so, and even some
referees think so, they really don't mean anything. I think we've all
seen games where one team has 10 fouls after a quarter and the other only 4 or
5, and most people watching think that's about right. It is entirely
possible that one team is just hacking the crap out of the other team, and the
other team isn't touching the first team.
I didn't see game 1 (Sunday), and fell asleep during game 2 (10:50 EDT is a _very late_ start), but from what I saw in games 2 and 3, I can say that the problem with the officiating here (BTW, NBA referees are horrible, playoffs or not) is not the foul count, but the simple fact that stuff isn't being called. I'm a huge Jazz fan, but I thought the Jazz got away with some stuff last night. I'm sure the Lakers got away with stuff. The main example is Williams getting hammered twice on that drive where he hurt his wrist, but nothing was called. Boozer, AK, Harpring, Milsap, and Brewer all got fouled without calls, too.
I didn't see game 1 (Sunday), and fell asleep during game 2 (10:50 EDT is a _very late_ start), but from what I saw in games 2 and 3, I can say that the problem with the officiating here (BTW, NBA referees are horrible, playoffs or not) is not the foul count, but the simple fact that stuff isn't being called. I'm a huge Jazz fan, but I thought the Jazz got away with some stuff last night. I'm sure the Lakers got away with stuff. The main example is Williams getting hammered twice on that drive where he hurt his wrist, but nothing was called. Boozer, AK, Harpring, Milsap, and Brewer all got fouled without calls, too.
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Lakers guard Derek Fisher has played a key role in Los Angeles' playoff victories over Utah.
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Unfortunately, that's not the worst of the story. Let's look at free throws: In this series, the Jazz have averaged 23 free throws per game while the Lakers have averaged 44.5. During the season, the Jazz averaged 28 free throws per game to their opponents 30.1. That means that the Jazz are shooting 18% FEWER free throws and the Lakers 48% MORE free throws than season averages would suggest.