Why is everything about liberals with you guys L White? I wish just
once I could get through a comment thread without people thinking they have
proven something by saying "liberals". I'll say this for you
guys, you have been well trained. But as far as having to show my ID
at a polling place it doesn't really bother me either, I have ID. and I would
imagine most everyone in Springville has ID also. I do imagine it
would bother people, maybe, in areas where not everyone has ID. Someplaces
people just don't drive cars. I would imagine not everyone would have drivers
licenses like they do here. And what about absentee ballots? How do
you show ID for an absentee ballot?
My goodness, there certainly are a lot of people who disagree with Utah's law
that requires positive I.D. before anyone can vote. I have been voting for
decades. I personally know the election judges and they know me. I still had
to show my driver's license.That did not bother me. Why does it
What is the system for removing the deceased from voter roles? I have no idea
if I'm still on the voter role in another state where I lived. Why don't
they just make voter IDs when they come to vote? Then they have a picture ID
for next time. As Spring Street pointed out, it is not easy or cheap for some
people to come up with the "proper" documents. Bottom
line is, the Bush Justice Dept focused on prosecuting voter fraud and even went
so far as to fire their own appointed attorneys for failure to find prosecutable
cases. The Republican Party is merely looking for ways to suppress potential
Democratic voters.The bigger threat to legal elections are
electronic voter machines. As for the yokels who posed as dead
people and tried to get ballots. Well, they could face federal criminal
Richards, I thought you were a strict constitutionist. No matter how hard I look
I can find nowhere in the Constitution where it requires ID of any kind to vote.
So, at least in federal elections, it would seem that your argument does not
agree with the Constitution.
I think that the people who say that freedom isnât free are those business
types that thing everything in this world should be the private property and
available to other people only if they have the price. Freedom was
supposed to be in the package that we got when we joined this club, America. It
only becomes a commodity when unscrupulous businessmen try to take it from us.
The real reason that so many have died to keep our freedom is
because foreign businessmen. just like our own, wish to take our freedom.
When an article starts out with a lie, I just know that itâs downhill from
there. Although you can probably find someone of every kind who will say
everything imaginable, the conservative thing of including every enemy of theirs
in their insult is not good. Especially when it is the liberal side of humanity
that tends1o elevate people. It is the shame of America that in the
200 or so years of existence we have not progressed in the promised justice and
freedom for all with regard to electing our government. While America grew in
many ways, the minority who control our government has grown smaller and
smaller. As a liberal American I think the reason for the problem
is the handicaps and roadblocks put up by that minority to preventing voting be
ordinary people. And while there is an abundance of criminal types on both side
of the aisle the drive to keep the other side from voting is strong. And itâs all done for money.
People like Mike Richards should look at the DPS website for documentation
required for a DL or ID. IT's similar (if not identical) to documentation for a
passport. I believe this is a federal mandate. Between that and the cost,
which can be difficult for many, especially for minorities and the poor. Get
out of your bubble and learn the realities of the world.
To all those who favor voter ID: If you favor making the change, then the burden
of proof is directly on you. You need to show that there IS a problem with voter
fraud. Murdock's offerings are thin gruel in that he talks about what's
possible, but not whether it's actually happening. You also need to show that
your proposed solution solves the problem. Voter fraud is already illegal, so
your plan should beyond throwing people in jail.Beyond these two
requirements, it would also be nice if we had some assurance that the voter
registration office in this new setup wouldn't be located at the other end of
the county in an office that's never open, run by a guy who's never there, who
uses a camera that never works. Lacking that, your proposal, however patriotic
or sincere, deserves to be rejected.
It really doesn't matter what the motivation may be to require voters to show
that they are who they say they are. It is law that only citizens have the
right to vote. It makes sense to require ID. In this day and age you can't
trust everyone to be honest. The requirement suports the law that it is based
on.What may be the motivation of those who are against requiring ID?
Do they really believe that the reason someone doesn't have a birth certificate
or drivers license is because they can't afford it? Who can get by today
without any ID? It is absolutely essential! If someone really doesn't have it
this law will be a blessing, making it easier for them to get an ID. If one
really cares about the poor or minorities you should be for this law to help
them function better in our society.The only logical reason to be
against this law is if it will curtail your intention to commit voter fraud.
re: Mark B,Do you deny the FACT that the 1960 election was won by
Richard Nixon, and not JFK, and that only because Richard Nixon valued the
Country above the Presidency, that he ALLOWED JFK to claim victory?Do your own research and then tell us that EACH vote should not count.There has been extensive voter fraud in elections. No party is exempt,
but the majority of the fraud has happened on the Democrat side.If
we want the PEOPLE to decide the outcome of elections and not the precinct
captains, then we have to require that rules are enforced, the primary being
that ONLY citizens who are qualified to vote actually cast a ballot.]If you think differently, then make your case.
Murdock, Mike R. and JCS would like us to believe that there's a massive assault
on the polls by illegal aliens and scheming Democrats, and that someone who
looks like he might be named 'Gomez" would try to vote in the name of
"Halvorsen".What they won't say is that changing
demographics do not favor Republican candidates. Rather than widen the party's
appeal, they have narrowed it, and must make up the difference by finding ways
to reduce voter registration and turnout. It's happening in one state after
another, all with GOP backing. What they also don't mention is that,
once ensconced in a system of ID granting, that there are a hundred ways to
manipulate the system to open the door wide for certain groupswhile
shutting it to others, particularly those who "look" like Democrats.
JCS, in particular, seems to feel that the only proper, educated vote out there
is his own.
spring street,Are you a citizen who believes in law and order, or
are you someone who believes in something else?What citizen would
allow a non-citizen the right to vote?Where I came from, a birth
certificate was issued when a child was born. It did not cost the child
anything. Yet, you're trying to tell us that someone who lost or misplaced that
birth certificate should not have to pay to have that certificate replaced.Where is "responsibility" in America?Are you just
another of the LBJ Democrats who votes in alphabetical order in your precinct?
Are you just another of the Daley Democrats who threw the election in Chicago to
JFK? Or, are you an American who stands for JUSTICE for all and
requires that citizenship has certain responsibilities?OUR
COUNTRYMEN bled and died so that YOU and I could vote. You demean their
sacrifice by allowing non-citizens to vote.You put the price of an
ADDITIONAL birth certificate above the price of those who died to make us
free.I find your version of "freedom" contemptible. There
is a price that EACH of us must pay to remain free. Birth certificates
@ Mike: Are you willing to sacrifice your right to vote for $50?$50
is not going to prevent voter fraud - it is merely going to prevent those who
have a right to vote from exercising that right.Those who have no
right to vote and desire to do it anyway, are more than capable and willing of
spending much more than $50 to cast their vote.
re: Spring Street,What value do you place on "freedom".
As an AMERICAN, are you going to let some illegal alien vote because of $50?
What price has been paid by those who gave their LIVES so that you
could complain that properly identifying yourself was reasonable?If
there is anything petty in politics it is your argument that UNDOCUMENTED voters
should have a voice in choosing who is elected.There is a price to
pay for freedom. If you are unwilling to verify that those who vote are legal
citizens who have the RIGHT to vote, then what other compromises are you willing
to make? What other responsibilities are you willing to overlook? What MINIMUM
requirements would YOU require before allowing NON-CITIZENS to vote?
Serving as an election worker in our precinct for years I often saw names of
deceased voters still listed even after I had marked them as deceased
previously. I also saw my son's name on there years after he had moved to
another state. Because I had lived there for years I knew most people who came
in to vote and would have realized it if someone tried to vote in the name of
one of those deceased people, but most poll workers wouldn't be aware. Without picture ID required we invite voter fraud. It is ridiculous not
to require it. I was glad to see UT make that requirement.
@ Mike: A birth certificate costs $18 per the Utah Department of Health
website. A driver's license costs $25 if you are under 65, $13 if you are over.
To get a driver's license you need your birth certificate, social security
card, and two proofs of residency which can include bank statements, vehicle
registrations or titles, utility bills (but not cell phone), lease or mortgage
contract, major credit card statement, school transcript, or property tax
notice. Driver's licenses must be obtained or renewed in person.An
identification card is $18, $13 for a person with a disability. The same
documentation is needed. There are a great many people - usually
older or handicapped - for whom it is extremely difficult to get the needed
documentation for an identity card and then get to the Department of Public
Safety to get the card.And even when all that is said and done,
there is no way to guarantee that identity theft has not occurred or that the
documents have not been faked.Requiring photo id does nothing to
solve the issue - it is just a feel good measure designed to give a false sense
There were missing ballots in Iowa so we don't know who actually came first.
First it was Santorum and we found an irregularity and Romney was really first.
Then they said no, Santorum was first but ballots are missing. So how do they
distribute the delegates correctly? Tell me someone I want to know.How do you prove you're an American citizen? I suppose it's different in
different jurisdictions, but there are millions of fake ID's out there,
illegally securing people jobs, presumably with SS numbers taken from people of
another state. It seems at first blush that there is a ton of scope for voter
fraud.What about the election judges? My wife, who has been an
election judge, believes that a "voter registration card" in her
opinion and in her district could easily be faked, not everyone is asked for
jother ID, not all ID is or can be validated as genuine. Election judges need
to be people of integrity but may not always be so, and some can be careless, or
otherwise lacking in efficiency.I think we can do better and must do
better. There is too much at stake, and the matter is urgent.
As Americans, we have a responsibility to each other to NOT vote illegally.Documentation hard to get? For whom? It costs less than $10 to get a
certified birth certificate. In Utah, all that is required is a
valid Utah State Driver's License OR a current valid identification card issued
by the State of Utah OR a currently valid license to carry a concealed weapon,
issued by the State of Utah, OR a valid US Passport, OR a valid Tribal ID card,
OR two utility bills showing name and address, OR bank statement, OR a number of
other NO COST alternatives.Voting is a right for CITIZENS. It is
not a right for illegal aliens. It is not a right for those convicted of
felonies. In an ordered society, proof is required before
authorization is given. ANY US citizen can easily show proof of citizenship.
Vote fraud is way overrated. But if you want ID, makes sure people can get ID
easily and without cost. Right now, an official ID is not easy to get. Many
people, particularly the poor, don't even have access to some of the required
documentation. And then there are the fees. For those in middle class America
who don't see or deal with these issues, you may not get it. It's kind of like
the abortion issue. Conservatives don't want abortions (and no one really
does), but they they fight any contraception, sex education or other measures to
minimize unwanted pregnancies. If you want to fight a problem, allow the cure.
Speaking of the Iowa Caucus: Isn't this where the Iowa Republicans
"lost" 8 precinct ballots and could not verify the winner of the
JCS, this prevents the left from having multiple voters vote multiple times in
return for leftist kickbacks...huh? The left wing has thrived on a system of
voter fraud..that truly is one of the most ridiculous things you've ever said.
If you looked close at the article it pretty clearly shows that the
name has to be on the roll in the first place so only recently deceased names
would be available for use. That percentage of the overall voting population
would be so small that it would be impossible for a party to "thrive"
on such fraud. Even in the most conservative of states that are trying to
implement these rules alledged voter fraud in in the tens..not the tens of
thousands the tens..actual voter fraud prosecutions are 1 to 10. How does one
thrive on that?
This article is exactly right that the left wing has thrived on a system of
voter fraud for far too long. It is time to put an end to this shameful
practice.Requiring voters to show identification is the most common
sense requirement imaginable. It prevents the left from having multiple voters
vote multiple times in return for leftist kickbacks. In the past, these
kickbacks consisted of government contracts that required no real labor, now,
they consist of entitlement programs.Of course, requiring ID is not
enough. We must have voters who are educated and informed about the issues. That
is the only way to stop the left from turning this Country into just another
European-style welfare state.