While I chuckle at the thought of BYU being in the Big 12 and being the cellar
dwellers, may I remind you that since they've departed the MWC (look and see RPI
and Rankings for MWC teams) and now they're getting thumped by WCC teams, is a
sign of trouble times!!Good to see this "Independent"
thing working out nicely for them.........until the fans get tired of losing to
I like to think of the whole conference realignment as a card game. I want the
player I am cheering for to hold all of the best cards and be confident in the
hand that they have. I don't want them to give away that they are really not
happy with the cards they have, it makes it less likely that they will win all
that they might have.Conference alignment is the same, pretend your happy
even if you would be happier being somewhere else. Don't let them know you would
do anything to be part of the club, because they will certainly use that against
you, whether it is gradual profit sharing or limited whatevers. Make the grab
for the best while you are in negotiation, you will not get another chance to
negotiate and your starting point will be what it is. Might be that is why BSU
continues to jump between conferences, buyers remorse, it looked good when I
bought into it, but now I see what someone else is getting and I am not happy
with what I got. Negotiations work out best if nobody knows that your are
anxious and willing to do anything to be part of the club. True for the working
man, true for the University in conference realignment.
Since several posters refer to the PAC 12 as the PAC 10.2 does this mean the Big
12 would be called the Big 10.1.1?I hope this conference opportunity
works out for BYU.
@eastcoastcoug: You said it about as well as anyone! The WCC was set up as an
interim deal, and anyone who wants BYU to stay there is just selling that entire
athletic department down the river. BYU belongs in a league like the Big 12 and
its actually been refreshing to see Ute fans get on this board and now agree
with such a move. I think a number of people need to realize that BYU isn't
going to be able to carry its weight like Notre Dame has over the years, and
their independent success is more of an accident than anything in the histoical
context of the college sports landscape in the U.S. If a Big 12 offer reaches
fruition (which given the cicumstances unfolding could happen...no denials) BYU
would be foolish to say no and would be sending the wrong signal to other
institutions that it is neither serious about its athletic fortunes or becoming
more of a serious academic research as well as teaching university. If BYU
wants to keep the faculty they've recruited as well as the caliber of
studentbody that has evolved, they better go this direction.
Cougar fan better hope that Holmoe doesn't run the football bus into the ditch
like he did at Cal.
It would be interesting to see how many of you "OK with independence"
people are from the Wasatch Front. If the goal is "Exposure", than you
would advance the cause MUCH better by joining the Big 12 or any conference with
major markets. You grow the program by playing regularly where your recruits
live. I recall going to an ASU game where we hadn't played there in 12 years.
Yet, we were recruiting there. We got Max Hall, John Beck and a bunch of other
great kids when we started doing home and home with ASU. The same could happen
in Texas. Keep our nonconference games with PAC 12 schools where our fan and
recruiting base are plus one East-of-the-Mississippi team..I love
the idea of the Big 12. But let's do it for basketball too. Awesome conference.
I'm one who has been really puzzled by our move out of the MWC and into
independence - as an end state. You people who want to stay there really need to
think this through...
BYU can always get creative. Can't see them giving in to not playing on Sundays.
Have a hard time seeing people line up to pay for tickets etc at the MC. Anyway,
if they are desperate to join the Big12, just don't charge admission for home
games and call them firesides!
I'm with So. Cal Reader, deseret pete, Whoa Nellie, dumprake, Real Bass,
alternate, 3grandslams, wer, gary2635, md, gnrl39, worf, ksmith, Bottom Line,
Cougarista.Brad Rock, I've enjoyed your well-written columns for
years, but this one is just shoddy. What is the name of the intern who wrote it
for you? I must say, the spelling was excellent. It's just the content that is
lacking.And Brad Rock, two days ago you wrote "[Joe Paterno]
will go down as a man who knew of allegations of child sexual abuse by an
assistant coach, yet looked away."--->Rubbish. He didn't look
away. He notified university administration and ensured the head of university
police was aware of everything he knew. You call that looking away?Somebody is writing Brad's columns for him. They aren't very good.
Does anyone really care what happens to BYU? Let them go and be a bottom feeder
in the Big 12 just as they're a bottom feeder in the WCC.
Unless purposely manipulated to be so, there is no reason BYU's scheduling and
competitive status shouldn't be able to advance according to their performance,
like anyone else. (Nice theory, eh?). The great injustice of the BCS is that it
is a high powered clique, and has only marginal relationship to quality
athletics. It's like a big wet blanket thrown over the whole of college
football. It needs to be dismantled and dissolved, in order to allow all college
teams to achieve maximum recognition of their achievements and be able to win
the big prizes if they can, by PERFORMANCE, not affiliation.
No, BYU doesn't need to prematurely reveal anything to the press. That makes you
part of the decision process and you, by definition, have different
responsibilities. When they have weighed exposure, income, academic integrity
and other factors typified by Sunday-play, they will make a decision. If BYU
wants your advice they know where to find you. Chill.
Dear Brad,I have to say this is just flat out poor journalism. If you
need BYU to hand over every detail of a 5 year plan it just will not happen.
The situations are too fluid to have anything concrete. It should be obvious
though that the general direction is as follows:1 - Keep a pulse on
conference realignment2 - Entertain serious offers that will allow the
school to enhance atheletic exposure3 - Continue to add success to the
status quo (independence)4 - By accomplishing #3 you will be better
positioned for #1 and #2.
CougFaninTX:"BYU has not announced their final four football
games for 2012. Something is brewing."Nothing is brewing. The
cougars' final four football games HAVE been announced. The only thing that
HADN'T been announced are the dates of those games. The cougars will play
Georgia Tech, Idaho, New Mexico State, San Jose State.You just need
to accept that you're NOT going to the Big XII. You're a WAC team now. Time
for you to just embrace it.
Same old story. It is a good point though-it would be nice to know the plan.
November football suck as does the WCC BB schedule except when they play
Gonzaga, St Mary's, and now LMU. I miss MWC basketball, but that will change
with SDSU leaving and going to the Big East for football and Big West for all
other sports. SDSU slapping their BB team like that makes BYU's move look tame.
NIce way to treat the No. 13 ranking BB team, but hey SDSU will get 4 Big East
BB games per year thrown in. woo hooI don't really care. I like
watching all sorts of sports on BYU TV when I can.
BYU will stay independent and here's why. They built $100 Million dollar media
center from donations. A current check of how many households watch BYUTv
estimates 3,300 households a month. There just aren't too many people that want
to watch "American Ride" or "Dining with the Dean." Without
BYU Sports, the channel is a bust. That's why BYU wants to do "their
thing." Why they don't tell us that and be done with it is beyond me. Maybe
they are afraid to lose their fan base. Unfortunately, I believe a lot of fans
have already bailed being frustrated with how the whole thing has been handled.
Riverton Cougar,The UTES might as well be in a BCS conference
waiting for a full share, getting the better recruits, learing how to play tough
competition each week, and what to expect in a major conference, then to make
outrageous demands, play an indy schedule, and have the possiblity of never
joining a BCS conference. So by the time our 3 year waiting period for a full
share is up, the Y still may not be in a big time conference, while the UTES
have already reaped the benefits of recruits, exposure, more money (even though
it's a partial share) etc. Other than the whole Sunday play thing, every Y fan
would've loved to see the Y make concessions to join a BCS league and have
played a BCS schedule to the schedule they played last year.
Observation-ist,I dont think that BYU would ever change their stance
on Sunday play, nor would I want them to, even as a UTE fan. I do believe that Y
fans should know what the stance of the school, Holmoe, and the churches leaders
on what they really want to do in the end as far as football and conference
realignment is. I would also want my son or daughter to grow up grounded and
wise, but never would I put my faith before my family, and I dont think that
anyone else should either. Even as an LDS member, my family comes first, and
Bronco should know that. During football season, family should always come
first, but football should be second. Outside of football season, the list is
patriot says "BYU can't stay relevant in college football as an independent
because their recruiting is going to die."How would joining the Big
12 improve BYU recruiting? As an Independent, WAC, MWC, or BCS conference
member, BYU recruiting will always be the same. They'll recruit Mormon kids
that want to go on a mission, mostly out of the state of Utah.There
is a big recruiting battle going on between new-member TCU and old-member Texas.
You think if BYU joined the league, that would affect the recruiting battle?
There are not a bunch of non-Mormon kids in Texas chomping at the bit to go to
BYU.Wasn't independence supposed to be a boon to BYU recruiting?
"We play anyone, anywhere, always on ESPN". Joining a league would
cause BYU to lose its national appeal. A kid from Georgia isn't going to go to
school in Provo so that he can play football in the Midwest.
A testimonial of a Ute fan:I have had season football tickets for
decades. And this past season has been the most enjoyable ever! The thrill of
hosting PAC-12 teams at RES. Following every conference team, anticipating how
each game would affect my team. Suspense to the last minute of the last game.
Win or lose I Loved it!Now at recruitment I follow every announcement!
Over 300 recruits indicating Utah as a school of interest. Arguably, the best
class ever with potentially 5-6 more highly regarded recruits possible.
Intence, Insane!Now I look forward to all the other sports. Utahn's
wll have the opportunity to see world class and future professional athletes
like never before. Again, winning will be secondary in my perspective.Exposure? PAC-12, 'nuff said; however, next year with the PAC-12 network
means we have seen nothing yet!Money? My estimate we received some
three times greater than ever before and that was with 0% basic TV dollars this
year.I say this only to support my advice regarding conference
affiliation. Just do it! Now! If necessary, on knees, grovel, whatever - just
do it! Good luck!
Well, this has been fun.Particularly the analogies to playing poker.
BYU fans talking poker strategy always makes me chuckle.....
Duckhunter,I think they will stay independent. However, not by
I prefer independence. I hope they stay independent.
@DEW CougarsNo one "knows what you mean" as that didn't
make a lick of sense. Try again.
Rock it sounds like you are sad because you are not an insider with the
information that you would like to have on the issue. Too bad. YTou will have
to wait forthe announcement if or when it comes.
Let's just state the obvious - EVERYONE in the state of Utah would love to see
BYU join the BIG 12. Not only Y fans but U fans too. The BYU Utah game would
have meaning again if the Y joined the Big 12 ... BIG 12 vs Pac 12 ... pretty
cool stuff. I really can't understand why BYU doesn't put on a full court press
and pitch themselves to the Big 12? Staying independent is going to be a bust
and everyone knows it. BYU can't stay relevant in college football as an
independent because their recruiting is going to die ... sooner than later.
I can still see Big East keeping their door open for BYU. But, BYU wants Big 12
(I know our fans want that but byu administration?). Big 12 is talking again and
I have a feeling they are toying around on BYU. Why, they don't want BYU to be
part of bcs league team because of no Sunday Rules, BYUtv and ESPN contract.
They just don't want us. That is my theory. Lastly, BIG Least is a Big Trap.
November would be bonus to have those cupcakes toward the end for no error
becasue those big suposely big boys would lose to some cupcakes at early season
(like Mich lost to aplanchi state (sp?), you know what I mean).
"It's hard to reveal one's game plan, when one doesn't have a game
"They're unhappy with the November schedule?"Do we need a
sports editor telling us how to feel?This reminds me of political
elections and the shaping of opinions.Sorry, but happy with how
things turned out, and being able to see so many games.
How is this any different than the last time around?You remember
last time... BYU rumored to be an expansion target, then Tom Holmoe stating
that, in fact, they only got an inquiry from the Big 12. They never got to the
level of talking about Sunday play or television rights and (most importantly)
never had an invitation.
All this jittery fan base talk is simply the media stirring the pot. True BYU
needs to hold there playing cards closer to the vest and keep tight lipped about
any and all plans they have for the athletic department. Clumsy
handling of the press by Tom is what keeps feeding the press hype machine. On
the other hand, the media is like an ignored puppy that begins to destroy things
if not played with on a regular basis.
When selling your house, you offer it on the market. Then you see what kind of
offers you receive. You take the one best for you.BYU has a great
product to offer. They're evaluating the offers. Why should we be anything less
than patient? It isn't as if we fans all can't sleep at night wondering where
BYU ends up next season.Maybe the Rock has insomnia wondering where
BYU will be. We're taught we must have patience and be long suffering. Most of
us aren't suffering much. And I can use a few more lessons in patience.
Fans don't deserve to know all the inner workings of an athletic department.
Fans are supposed to be supportive and cheer when their team makes an
announcement, but announcing things and tipping your hand takes you out of a
position of power from a negotiation standpoint. We need to let Director Holmoe
do his job and stop pestering him for more info. In the mean time, I'm as pumped
as can be to actually be able to watch every game now. I'll be happy being a BYU
fan who will follow the team faithfully no matter what direction it takes.
BYU belongs in the BIG 12. If BYU stays pat as an independent its
recruiting will suffer, its storied reputation will evaporate and its fan base
will start to lose interest. BYU needs to step up to the plate and accept the
challenge of competing with the Best of the Best.
Relax Brad. I'm relaxed. Only the sports writers are tense.
This is not a message to stir the pot, but there is a huge difference in what
the majority of most Athletic Directors job duties are compared to what BYU has
their Athletic Director do. Holmoe is just a spokesperson. He does not make
major decisions. The church leadership makes decisions with Holmoe's input
obviously, but he is not the one controlling this. At most Universities, the
Athletic Director is a position of power and decision making. Unless church
leadership approves submitted idea's, Holmoe has no power whatsoever in taking
charge or directing the athletic department. I have to agree with Rock in that
it appears there is not a path or direction that has been clearly identified for
the athletic programs that has been made public.
Nothing is brewing...It was the first meeting of the expansion
committee since the Big 12 decision to invite West Virginia. In an interview
with Lubbock radio station Double-T 104.3 FM before the meeting, Neinas
indicated that he didn't see further expansion at this point."I
don't anticipate there's going to be a movement off 10," Neinas said.
"It could happen down the road, but we definitely won't be beyond 10 for
2012-2013 and there is strong feeling within the membership that 10 provides the
opportunity for round-robin in football and you play everyone in basketball
twice ... "That seems to be appealing to the conference
members. To go beyond that will take a lot of research and hard thinking."
The two Major Hangups...Sunday play and BYU-tv.If BYU is not allowed
to keep all 3rd-Tier-Rights, to all games and all sports, even after ESPN and
Fox make their choices, then it won't ever happen, they will never give that
up.The idea of BYU relinquishing all rights to all sports is not
going to happen.Been there and done that, thank you. If BYU games are not
picked up and the Conference still does not allow live broadcasts on BYU-tv,
then that is a deal breaker.The same day replay is not a deal
breaker.The Sunday play, is indeed.They're not going to put
their 100 million dollar broadcast facility into mothballs.. They need
programming just like any other network.If the tattered Big East
wouldn't make those concessions, then neither will the Big-12.Nope,
it's Independence or Bust, for BYU.
@ Dog Fur.... I respectfully disagree with just about everything you said except
tha I too like BYU TV....Time is of the essense when it comes to
getting into a conference (at least a good one).... The Big 12 will fill its
desired number whether we choose to be part of that or not... It's clear that
the PAC 10.2 doesn't want us and probably never will, and that part is okay with
me because I am not thrilled where that Conference is going anyway.... That
leaves the Big 10, the ACC, the SEC, and the Big East.... The first three are
not geographically friendly and they would probably not take a Mid-Major
straight into their conferences anyway. They would take from other BCS
Conferences. And, the Big East will be the sickest pup in the littler meaning
that their schools will continuously look for an upgrade and Schools will go in
and out like a revolving door....Also, as confeences fill up, it will become
near impossible for Indys (like us) to fill our schedule with quality
competition.And, No I don't believe Holmoe or Samuelson have a clue
as to what they are doing.
@CougFaninTX"BYU has not announced their final four football
games for 2012. Something is brewing.**************Yeah...
what's brewing is BYU waiting for just the right time to announce 2 home and 2
road games against the dregs of the WAC.This is not an announcement
that BYU is eager to make.
The chronicle of narnia is the source that BYU is being considered for the Big
12?Shocked that BYU's partner, The Worldwide Leader In Sports (aka
ESPN), didn't break the story.
BYU has not announced their final four football games for 2012. Something is
Brad, you just can't stand the fact that BYU doesn't really care what you think
about their business. I don't see BYU fans caring all that much where BYU ends
up. Get a grip brother and find something else to worry about.
If there is one conference BYU belongs in, it's the Big XII. BYU has winning
records against several school in Texas, including Texas and other schools in
that conference. Remember how they beat Oklahoma recently? They've also played
good games vs. Texas and Kansas State in the past.I for one would
hate to belong to the Texas Longhorn conference, but I fully trust the Apostles
and athletic people to make the right decision.
I think Rock hit the nail on the head with this fan. He expressed my sentiments,
exactly. I personally would like BYU to join the Big 12, even if it meant giving
up some TV rights. For basketball it would be AWESOME. For football contending
for a conference title is motivation even after 1 loss. Same goes for other
sports (like T and F in which my son participates) who are now independent and
wander from event to event looking for an identity.But more
importantly, as a fan and alum and father of a student athlete, I really want to
know what BYU's intentions are:Do we want exposure by joining a big-time
conference with a shot at a BCS bowl or title? Or are we content with exposure
through BYUtv as a second tier program with a mediocre schedule year after
year?At the same time, I realize independence has its advantages,
but I really wish BYU would show some transparency and let us fans ( and the
rest of the country) if they are serious about a BCS conference or not?
Here we go again... enough with the rumors Mr. Rock. Face it, The Big 12 doesn't
want BYU right now!! Get over it Cougar Fans. You have your precious ESPN deal
to play late night games and workday 12 noon bowl games.
Oh the pettiness and wrongful thoughts that get plastered to these discussion
boards. I'm sure that if Virginia had even a remote hint of professional teams
in the NBA, NFL, MLB or NHL that they would gladly schedule their games at the
applicable venue as often as BYU does. You can't compare apples to oranges when
the apples have what the oranges don't have. You also can't tell me that in said
situation that VA Tech or anyone else for that matter outside the professional
sport landscape wouldn't do exactly what BYU does. I'm also pretty sure that
there is no complaining by the teams that get to play in a state of the art
facility like ESA as opposed to their rinkydink gym. Plus, prior to this season
the Marriott Center has not been very visitor friendly in only 3 teams in over
50 have even walked away from Provo's 22,000 seat arena with a victory. Yet, how
many teams have walked out of the DC or as it is now blahly called ESA as
victors when playing BYU? Come on sports fans... Get your head in the game and
listen to the voice of common sense!
Brad,Maybe they want to be wise and keep their options open while deciding
what is best for the University. If you are playing poker, do you tell
everyone your intentions with your hand, or do you work for the best deal you
can get?I am glad you aren't the one negotiating.Enjoy the ride.Mike
I get tired of sportswriters saying what I feel as a fan. What he should say is
that it is how HE feels. BYU has been perfectly clear in their intentions.
They will join a BCS league that will give them the flexibility in their
broadcasts they desire. Good for them. You don't qualify to speak for the
fans, only for yourself.
Yet another shooting at windmills story. An article with real
meaning would call to light the continuing scheduling woes of the basketball
team. It was great to beat Virginia Tech on their home court. Guess where the
two teams will meet again? A true home and home at the Marriott Center? Nope,
try again: in SLC at Energy Solutions.Frankly, if teams aren't
willing to play BYU in true home and home, we shouldn't be signing contracts
with them! To keep going down this misguided path will only get BYU deeper into
the woods where they don't want to go. For this to happen once or maybe twice in
five years is almost OK, but it's becoming a pattern. Can you
imagine Virginia Tech telling Duke or Carolina: sorry, folks, we'll play in
Greensboro or Roanoke, but not on your home floor?Yeah, yeah, we can
just hear the admin excuses now: well, they won't play us at our place because
it's so tough in their conference they don't want to add another tough game.
It's that school's loss, and their bad decision shouldn't be reinforced by the
admin compounding it with a worse decision.Play home and home, and
not their home and our neutral. How long are season ticket holders
who don't live next to Energy Solutions going to encourage this?
Rock in the article you sited is the perfect example of how the conferences
don't know what's going on..."Further Big 12 expansion is
âvery possible,â two high-ranking sources told The Chronicle."
This is how the article starts out, then this quote, same article, from the BIG
12 commish, "Weâre definitely committed to 10 in the
foreseeable future,â he said. âHow that plays out, weâll have
to wait and see.âOK, make a decision, stop saying no to TCU,
then after they make a move, inviting them back. Stop saying
"expansion" then saying "We're committed to 10". I think Rock is just trying to stir the pot and make BYU look like the
culprit, when everyone really knows, what BYU has done with independence has
turned out better than imagined and gave them very strong bargaining power, even
after a couple villians from the WAC tried to undermine the Cougs. Thanks again
Utah State for exposing those teams. Rock your barking up the wrong
Be very careful of Texas.When BYU serves to be a part of the Texas
Football schedule, they are treated as equals.What treatment, as a
conference member, might BYU receive from Texas?Why did Colorado,
Missouri, Nebraska, as well as Texas A&M choose to leave the BIG 12, with
penalty ( up to 8 to 12 million), if the BIG 12 was such a wonderful conference?
BYU is doing just fine. Maybe Rock should be asking the conference's to declare
their intentions! Are they going to expand or not, are they happpy with 10 or
not? You get the idea.Rock's trying to paint BYU as wishy washy, but
the truth is conference realignment is as precarious as jinga blocks resting on
only 1 or 2 solid pieces. BYU fans completely see that and are
thrilled that BYU is rocking on their heels enjoying unprecenteted national
Mr Rock, I think the issue is very clear. If the Big 12 wants BYU they will
need to accept no sunday play and allow BYU to have some kind of leeway
agreeable to both parties on home game broadcast rights and rebroadcast rights.
What part of that are you confused with?BYUTV is a huge investment
and a exciting media concept for the LDS church and BYU. It could also be a
great meadia tool for the Big 12. I think the ball is in the Big
@Louisiana Cougar: You're VERY correct that the WCC lacks the ability to propel
BYU into the NCAA tourney as an "at-large" entrant as the MWC evolved
into. At best in any given year the WCC is a 2-bid league, even though the
Pac-12 teams at this point in history are less competative. They will always
propel more teams into the tourney since they are the power league and control
more votes on the selection committee not to mention TV money.
I did not use to believe that our no Sunday play rule was a major stumbling
block. But if Louisville is considered a stronger candidate than BYU, then it
must be a serious problem. BYU's overall athletic program is now and
historically stronger. It's fan base is larger and it brings more money to the
table. And if BYU is holding out for more BYUtv exposure, they are not
thinking well. The key to BYUtv's longterm success is getting non-mormon
viewers. The best way to accomplish that is for fans of Big 12 to see where
BYUtv is on the dial. Showing games on tape delay will accomplish that
Oklahoma State is one school that would like to go back to 12, and they have
in-state Oklahoma's interests politically, and thus OU also wishes to return to
12 sooner than later. Kansas State also wants to go to 12, but Texas with AD
DeLoss Dodds and head football coach Mack Brown like the 9 game round-robin
format since for Texas (& perhaps Oklahoma) they could get into the big BCS
event by merely running the table. Any of the other 8 schools will not be in
such a position. That's why the Chronicle of Higher Education article indicated
that BYU could more likely help the league immediately as an 11th school since
if West Virginia can't bail on the Big East for another year, BYU could buy out
their WAC cupcakes fairly inexpensively and help the league fulfill TV
obligations for 2012. Louisville will have the same legal issues West Virginia
has had coming from the Big East, even though Senator Mith McConnell (R-KY) has
lobbied former senate colleague and OU president David Boren quite heavily. If
pushed to take BYU, they'll also take Louisville is the scenario.
I would love to be in the Big 12, but Independence is much better than the
mountain worst. I still however would much rather be the third or fourth best
team some years, with a Championship every now and then in the Big 12 then be
5-0 against the WAC every year.
The stability with the Big 12 now is in Oklahoma's court. The SEC is VERY
interested in going to 16 and an Oklahoma/Oklahoma State combination is
something they want. Oklahoma has resisted overtures from the SEC since like
Utah they aspire AAU affiliation, and the SEC hasn't been exactly an
academically stalwart league with only Vanderbilt and Florida as AAU members.
But with the additions of AAU members Texas A&M and Missouri, the case for
jumping to the SEC is now stronger and if Texas pushes them too much....it could
@NevadaCoug: ESPN/ABC is renegotiating 1st tier media rights with the Big 12
right now (in advance of their 2016 expiration..which along with the West
Virginia situation has precipitated this latest league alignment scenario). The
Big East deal would have been with the same Comcast Cable Cartel that ruined the
MWC with an abysmal failure of a league network.
As a BYU fan, I can honestly say that BYU football is just a small priority
compared to what's more important at BYU- marriage, and education. For the
first time in years, I can honestly say that our bretheren at BYU are taking our
football program in the right direction. We get 8 wins or more a year, and our
student athlets know that football isn't as much a priority as marriage and
spiritual progression. I trust Bronco. I trust Homoe. I suggest you do the
"Here's a significant quote from an ESPN article about BYU declining the
opportunity to join the Big East: "The deal-breaker was television
rights.....BYU wanted to retain the rights to its home football games and the
league could not agree to that. No other school in a major conference has such a
deal."I understand that BYU wants to maximize its
"exposure" on BYU-TV for the convenience of its fans, but if they pass
up membership in a quality conference for that, then they may become the
perennial "big fish in the small pond.""And Holmoe
refuted that. He stated that if BYU was being asked to join RIGHT NOW, then
they would have to retain those rights (due to current contracts they have with
ESPN. This was unspoken, but it's pretty obvious it is the reason.) However,
if allowed time to negotiate a release from those contracts, they would have
been more willing to join.All it takes is paying attention and a
brain to compute what is said.
@ Real BassI have no problem with BSU choosing to move on, but check
the timeline. Utah had not been invited to join the PAC 12 at the time Boise
agreed to join the MWC. Any school in the MWC, WAC etc would have jumped at the
PAC 12 offer. Don't blame the Utes for the demise of the MWC. Utah, BYU and
TCU carried the conference for years inspite of total incompetence from the
commissioner. Programs as good as these could no longer abide the dreadful TV
and bowl contracts. All three schools made prudent business decisions.
My biggest concern about BYU's affiliation is its basketball conference.
Without question, BYU would have been the fourth best MWC team this year. Going
to the WCC is definitely a step down.BYU has no shot at "big
boy" football competitiveness. It just cannot recruit enough top players
to go up against the Georgias, LSUs, Alabamas, and Oklahomas year-in and
year-out and be successful. Very few schools have that capability, and trying
to keep up with those schools is plainly silly.Again, I care about
BYU hoops. I don't give a rat's petoot about BYU and college football -- except
when BYU plays Utah.
Let me first say that I have great respect for the BYU athletic programs. They
are certainly deserving of an invitation to one of the BCS conferences.Here's a significant quote from an ESPN article about BYU declining the
opportunity to join the Big East: "The deal-breaker was television
rights.....BYU wanted to retain the rights to its home football games and the
league could not agree to that. No other school in a major conference has such
a deal."I understand that BYU wants to maximize its
"exposure" on BYU-TV for the convenience of its fans, but if they pass
up membership in a quality conference for that, then they may become the
perennial "big fish in the small pond."BYU, and its fans,
need to get over any paranoia about another bad TV deal. The MWC TV deal has to
be the worst one in the nation. There is no way a BCS conference would ever
sign on to anything resembling it.BYU, you probably can't have your
cake and eat it too. Which do you want - maximal exposure on a third-rate
network, or membership in a conference that is worthy of your program?
You miss the mark on Boise State. They joined the MWC based upon false
representations by Utah, BYU, and TCU who were all on their way out of the
conference. The present conference is not what it was represented to be and
they have every right to leave just like the other three.
Those real outer fringe teams who think that by joining conferences in which
they are not only geographically compatible with but will also prove to be
competively non compatible will not survive Transcontinental College football
Utah Texas AM and Missouri are at least geographically compatible. But is Boise
State compatible to the Big East in either of those two parameters???
Wow, very impressed with the rational posts thus far on this thread.If BYU decides to stay Indy, we will be fine. If BYU joins the Big 12, we
will be fine. I'm okay with sitting back and letting it play out.I
will say that being one that lives outside of Utah, I have loved that I can see
every football game, basketball game, volleyball match, etc. I am
confident that BYU is keeping its international fan base in mind when making
these decisions and won't sacrifice important things to feel
For starters it was FOX as a Big 12 media partner that shot down the idea of BYU
going to the Big 12 last fall, and it was over the BYU policy of "no Sunday
play." They resented the inability to exercises any options under a $1.2
billion 2nd tier rights media deal not being able to move a championship finale
(like mens/womens basketball) to a Sunday.While the West Virginia
situation could kick open the door for BYU and an real as opposed to application
invitation to join the league could be extended, there are those higher ups in
political control of BYU who will be more concerned where a BYU move to the Big
12 would leave Utah State much the way they were concerned back in the
1980s/1990s where BYU leaving the then WAC could leave Utah.Last
fall the Big 12 presidents made it clear that the "no Sunday play"
policy of BYU couldaccommodatedated. Now if only Texas would realize that they
are being the problem by staying at only 10..then BYU comes aboard.
I think Brad Rock is engaging in some bad journalism here. What does he know? so
BYU has not "revealed" it's intentions, it's unimportant. And yes,
maybe it's possible BYU does yet know what it's intentions are. With the daily
changing of the football landscape out there, why would you commit now? tomorrow
could be a whole different world. So I respect BYU for staying mum, and look to
do the best it can for the school, sports, and the fans. But certainly, this
issue should not be driven by the fans, they just come to watch games.
"Have to say it...... brace yourself for some major flip-flopping from some
of the Cougar faithful."Proud Ute, are you suggesting that BYU
will be invited to a BCS conference? Ute fans don't usually admit that. Of
course, if BYU joins a BCS conference, the contract will contain some BYU terms
on it. That is the reason why BYU never got an official invitation from the
other conferences; they didn't agree to BYU's terms, and BYU wasn't willing to
go with their terms (like another team did).
Don't really care right now. Bring it up again in October. And like any other
athletic director at any other school, Tom Holmoe is not the decision maker in
these types of policies and choices.
Give it a rest Mr. Rock. ---how do you know most BYU fans are just waiting to
hear something about joining or not joining. -- speak for your self and the few
who like you want to try to run the show from their narrow and limited
prespective.I and many others I know would prefer thosse best qualified
determine what is best for BYU and I have greater faith in them than
journalists. If they decide to join a conference if invited -fime -- If they
decide not to join --- fine -- I'm not a part time fan.
Have to say it...... brace yourself for some major flip-flopping from some of
the Cougar faithful.
Patriot-- You've fallen for the Ute fan misinformation. The contract with the
Armed Forces Bowl was only for one year. Next year they are under contract with
the Poinsettia and then Kraft Fight Hunger after that. Granted, they are
mid-level bowls but will be getting better. Strength of schedule is impossible
to guarantee since some teams with over-perform and others will tank but looking
at the next few years, BYU will have very challenging schedules as an indy.
From this BYU fans perspective, I'm just fine with BYU sticking by their guns
with respect to no-sunday-play and exposure via BYU-TV. If that means the
remain independent until a suitor agrees to those two bedrocks, I'm just fine.
As for this blather about BYU fans have angst over this or that. I
for one would have much, much, MUCH greater angst if BYU sold out to Sunday play
(they won't and I'm not worried) or gave up trying to serve BYU fans across the
country and around the world with exposure.Your trying to
characterize BYU fans as upset or anxious or ... you fail to understand the
breadth of the BYU nation and our understanding that sports has its rightful
place ... as Bronco said 5th. Faith, Family, Friends, Education, Football.
Fine with me. Oh that my kids grow up as grounded and wise
Under the current system Conference affiliation has major advantages. However,
while I think BYU could play and have success in the Big 12 I would still be
very skittish. It is a distinct possibility that the Big 12 (minus 2) may lose
more teams, as Oklahom and Oklahoma State have indicated they would like to get
out from under the control of Texas( a team which they have both dominated
recently). The college football landscape is still going to experience
significant changes. While independence is a struggle (back half of the
schedule) the ability to work through it is there if they are patient and wait
for the landscape to settle. That said, I can see where fans would like to know
one way or the other
The church should alter its present mission and focus primarily on BYU athletics
by making every concession possible in order to join a BCS conference. This
will serve to maximize its sports revenue stream, create opportunities for its
Football student athletes to play on Sunday and ultimately maximize church
exposure for greater conversion opportunities.
BYU wants to play remain independent , play Idaho , and bo-diddly-tech at home
and win 8 games so they can play in the Armed Forces bowl. Isn't is already
clear?? BYU wants to play small ball.
I think BYU has been pretty clear in what it wants but also knows there are some
things making them unique. To jump to a conference BYU is after 3 things.1-No Sunday Play. This one in non-negotiable and everyone knows it. It's not
a problem for football but it's complicated for the other sports.2-Have at
least 3 football games broadcast on networks while retaining rights to remaining
home games. The money part of this doesn't seem nearly as important as the
viewership since BYU's never had a hard time with profit sharing in the past.
3-BCS access. There's no reason to leave independence if there's no tie
to the BCS-- might as well stay put. We'll see if a conference and their
broadcast partners can bring these things together. The Big12 seems the best
fit but their broadcast folks struggle with #1 for all sports. Right now #3 is
the only thing missing. We'll see if BYU would give up #2 to get #3. As a fan,
I'm fine to wait it out.
You mean BYU is not in a BCS Conference already?! From reading comments in the
BYU Sport's section, you would think BYU leap-frogged college football altoghter
and has now entered the NFL.Yes folks, BYU is just that good.
I think independence will be fine. If BYU really wanted to be in the Big 12,
they could have settled for less and joined. However, we can tell by the
discussions that BYU won't join a conference until it is clear that they won't
be put at a disadvantage by doing so.I think fans need to lighten up
with Holmoe. I understand the frustration at being left in the dark, but BYU's
reason for keeping quiet is obvious enough: too many schools have been burned
for speaking too soon. Let's just agree that Holmoe sees the big picture better
than we can. He hears things we don't.
Blah, blah, blah! Write the article once the Cougs make a formal announcement
yeah or nay. Rock, you're just rehasing yesterday's news. Getting tired of
articles each and every time BYU comes up in any conference discussions.
I'll help you out Rock. Thought you would have figured this out by now but I am
sure you are busy looking for new regarding Majerus. BYU wants to
be in a BCS conference but they are not willing to get shoved into the cellar.
BYU would join the BIG 12 today if they gave them the right to televise any
non-televised game on BYUtv. Of course Sunday play is a non-starter.
Otherwise, Indepence is moving right along. BYU is already has a strong
schedule in football and all the games are televised.
But then they couldnt be WAC champions!
I think Mr. Holmoe's comments show that he is interested in joining a good
conference if the option becomes available to BYU, and the conference is willing
to work with BYU on it's unique aspects (such as no Sunday play).He
didn't say we didn't join the Big East because we don't want a conference, he
said that they didn't join because they didn't like what the Big East had to
First I love KBYUtv. Second I can wait to see, I'm not a spoiled child who has
to have everything right now. Third I trust those in charge at BYU will make the
right choice with the opportunities they have.
I think people are crazy if you think being independent permanately is the
solution, the Big 12 is where BYU belongs, in all sports. I would rather play
Kansas St, or Baylor in november than Idaho St or Weber St, or have two bye's.
That's just me, I honestly think BYU will be in the Big 12 starting the 2013
I love to watch BYU football on tv. Joining a conference may eliminate that.