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Comments about ‘Writer carefully tackles question of sacred LDS undergarment’

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Published: Thursday, Jan. 26 2012 9:00 a.m. MST

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JohnInSLC
Cottonwood Heights, UT

"Not. Obama."

Yet.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Third try
We need to dissect people's underwear now? Is this a necessary topic or important topic?

re:Madden
Pagan was right. Profit doesn't always equal jobs. Bain and other private equity firms make money whether the companies they acquire go bankrupt or not.

How?

"If a private-equity firm wants to make money, it has to improve the value of the companies it buys.
Historically private-equity firms had a powerful incentive to make companies perform better. In the past decade, though, that calculus changed. Having already piled companies high with debt in order to buy them, many private-equity funds had their companies borrow even more, and then used that money to pay themselves huge special dividends. This allowed them to recoup their initial investment while keeping the same ownership stake. Before 2000, big special dividends were not that common. But between 2003 and 2007 private-equity funds took more than seventy billion dollars out of their companies. These dividends created no economic valuethey just redistributed money from the company to the private-equity investors.

As a result, private-equity firms are increasingly able to profit even if the companies they run go under."
(The New Yorker)

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

'Third try' - Truthseeker | 5:17 p.m. Jan. 26, 2012

You notice that too, huh?

Apparently the term 'civil discourse'...

is code for:

'Whatever promotes my agenda.'

NOT, facts.

LValfre
CHICAGO, IL

@ Red Corvette

"Have to love the new spin on the purpose of wearing garments has changed too. All old members of the church know different." What happened to stopping bullets and protecting against fire? There's always a new spin on EVERYTHING that's questioned ... the spins change to best suit society through the decades.

@MoJules

"Be warned when you go to the blog that there are some advertisements at the top that are a not PG." Thanks Mo. I'm pretty sure we're all adults in here though. We'll survive a non-PG AD. If you're reading the paper with your toddler though, then kudos to a kid with a bright future!

VA Saint
Chester, VA

Completely inappropriate to discuss in the mainstream media.

Where's Stockton ???
Bowling Green, OH

Red Corvette

I really think you have it totally confused. Like Red Corvettes from the first one that rolled off a production line the designs of the garment like the design of the Corvette have gone through some obvious changes from the old simple one style fits all of quite a few years back to having several models with various options as we know of them to day. Where you are obviously mistaken...is thier purpose which there has been no change in thier purpose as you wrongfully imply. Despite the noteriety of being able to say "Hey I own a Corvette." which despite it's price tag is still only an A to B form of Conveyance... Whereupon the garment basically is as always still used primarily to remind us to ask for directions once in a while on our own personal A-B journey's from here to eternity. Your information from old timers is definitely wrong.

Rational
Salt Lake City, UT

@Pagan,

Facts are not really factual when they carefully selected, sorted, and bent to serve one's purpose rather than the whole truth.

You above all should know this.

LValfre
CHICAGO, IL

@Rational,

"Facts are not really factual when they carefully selected, sorted, and bent to serve one's purpose rather than the whole truth."

Check your churches facts ... Don't look the other way on things either, be objective and RATIONAL. Then tell us the truth.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

This is a very well reasoned and thoughtful approach to the issue. These are sacred things that should not be treated lightly. On the other hand, the existence of these things is not secret.

There are many religion groups that wear specific clothing. The Jewish examples given here are probably the best analogies. Sikhs wearing turbans and white clothing may be another good analogy. Sadly in two states that still prevents Sikhs from serving as public school teachers. As far as I know garment wearing Mormons have not been excluded from teaching in the public schools on the "no religious clothing" rule. I half wish someone would try, just to expose how truly discriminatory such rules are.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

I really, really hope this does not lead to questions about other candidates clothing decisions.

I can see why people bring this issue up. It is in part because of people out there who misrepresent the purpose and nature of the clothing in question and mock it. Hopefully we can find ways to speak about this civilly, respectfully and in a way that people realize there is nothing evil or sinister involved.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

Since someone brought up Amish I think it is worth noting a few things. The Amish do not "live their lives like it is the 1800s", they try to live their lives in a plain, modest, unpretentious manner. They actually do accept some new forms of technology, but they weigh how a new form will effect their community.

Anyone who has been following the news closely would know that recently some Amishmen were sent to jail in Kentucky for refusing to put gaudy, orange signs on their buggies. They were willing to place reflective tape and red lanterns on their buggies, which were just as good, but the state did not want to cooperate. The Amish have actually been sent to prison more often than other religious groups, and for "crimes" like refusing gaudy tape or not sending their children to far off, new fangled schools where they would be disconnected from the community.

One reason you hear very little of the Amish is that in general they view it against their religion to vote. This is also true of the Jehovahs Witnesses.

Dennis
Harwich, MA

If you're wearing a particular kind of underwear because you won't be considered a valiant member of the Church if you don't it can raise a few eyebrows. It's no big deal to members but imagine what the world outside of Utah thinks about this.

Uncle Charles
Where freedom and liberty reign, utah

Great to see our Mormon scholar LValfre is on here to keep everyone honest; according to LValfre's version of honesty.

Interesting that you counsel someone to not look the other way on things, be objective and RATIONAL. Who says 'Rational' hasn't done what you recommend? Every think that you are the one who is looking the other way, not being rational or objective?

Interesting how it's always the other guy's fault, right? Well, I know the truth. I know the LDS church is the Lord's church. I know the Book of Mormon is the word of God. I know that continuing revelation is on the earth through the Lord's prophet, Thomas Monson. I know Joseph Smith restored the gospel on the earth.

Now, go be humble, submissive, open heart, read the Book of Mormon, ponder the teachings, pray with sincerity and you too will know the truth of these things. Go and return and report.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Trust McKay Coppins to get it right.

I hope he returns to the DN someday. He is a real talent.

sharrona
layton, UT

Re:John Pack Lambert of Michigan This is a very well reasoned and thoughtful approach to the issue. These are sacred things that should not be treated lightly. On the other hand, the existence of these things is not secret.

(Either 3:18)the Lord not work in secret combinations. JS advised against secret societies.

Jesus answered him, I spoke openly to the world; I always taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, where the Jews always met; and in secret have I said nothing(John 18:20)

The Bible tells the believer to have his "loins girt about with truth" and to put on the "breastplate of righteousness,"(Ephesians 6:10-17) such metaphorical language never implies Christians are to place their trust in actual physical objects(garments). The idea has No biblical justification

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Re:JohnPackLambert

It would be helpful if you cited your sources.
More often than not they appear out of left field.
Like their incarceration rates and reason being they refuse to attend "far-off, new-fangled schools."

This is patently false.
The Amish have their own schools. Amish children only have to attend school until 8th grade, which was affirmed by a Supreme Court case in Wisconsin v Yoder, 1972 which basically found that Amish parents did not have to obey a Wisconsin law because it interfered with their religion.

You need new sources.

Uncle Charles
Where freedom and liberty reign, utah

___

Great to see our Mormon scholar LValfre is on here to keep everyone honest; according to LValfre's version of honesty.

Interesting that you counsel someone to not look the other way on things, be objective and RATIONAL. Who says 'Rational' hasn't done what you recommend? Every think that you are the one who is looking the other way, not being rational or objective?

Interesting how it's always the other guy's fault, right? Well, I know the truth. I know the LDS church is the Lord's church. I know the Book of Mormon is the word of God. I know that continuing revelation is on the earth through the Lord's prophet, Thomas Monson. I know Joseph Smith restored the gospel on the earth.

Now, go be humble, submissive, open heart, read the Book of Mormon, ponder the teachings, pray with sincerity and you too will know the truth of these things. Go and return and report.

Madden
Herriman, UT

@Truthseeker - don't go changing words around now. Nobody was arguing whether "Profit doesn't ALWAYS equal jobs" (emphasis added). I said as much in my post. You are changing the argument and then tossing out a flippant example of what some equity firms can do to screw up the system (run up debt and take the cash, leaving others empty handed...often the Trump way of making a buck too, right?). You act like somehow this is an indictment of Romney.

I can find plenty of examples of bad behavior by any type of business or industry, but it makes for a pretty weak attack doesn't it? Didn't most Democrats get tired of GOP attacks on Obama over the deceitfulness of a handful of community organizers (ACORN)? Rather than look for a fair argument, you use the same tactics as your political opposition, running a smear campaign based on unfounded associations. You can do better.

MoJules
Florissant, MO

Some people do not think that this is a valid article, so do you want people to do like the one person did, waving around a ladies garment top in mockery, or like the musical, and their mockery? Putting the facts out there can help stop a verbal mockery that is bound to happen. I liked the way he explained it and hopefully people will respect that, I would not make a mockery about any religions clothing.

wrz
Salt Lake City, UT

@Truthseeker:

"In the past decade, though, that calculus changed."

What's that to do with Romney? He left Bain nearly a decade ago.

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