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'Anti-Mormon slime machine' kicks into gear

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  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    Feb. 1, 2012 11:46 a.m.

    Since the term "cult" is seldom (if ever) defined, I am forced to conclude that a cult is basically any religion that right wing Protestants don't happen to like.

    As for me, I rejected right wing fundamentalist teachings long ago. Their continual degrading and belittling of the individual - coupled with liberal doses of unexplained guilt - alienated me as an American and a human being. Their Doctrine of Original Sin (wherein we are told to blindly accept guilt for the sin of Adam) contradicts the American concept of justice (wherein we are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law).

    Their continual harping on how we are "by nature evil" or "totally depraved" fosters an attitude of little more than self-loathing. This is unhealthy - especially for young children - I don't care how "Christian" it may be.

  • zoar63 Mesa, AZ
    Jan. 31, 2012 4:00 p.m.

    @Gemimi

    âBiblical Christians are appalled at Mormon doctrines because they completely deny the veracity of the Bible as God's infallible Word, they deny His character and essence as given in His text. They rewrote and redefined historic Christianity.â

    I think the council of Nicea wrote and redefined historical Christianity. The oldest new testament in existence can only be dated to the third century A.D. If you know of any other documents that contain the full texts of the New Testament that come from earlier sources preferably during the times of Christ and the apostles and before the Roman persecutions, I would be very interested in reading them. Joseph Smith has been accused of fabricating the Book of Mormon but who is to say that those responsible for compiling the New Testament did not resort to a little creative writing of their own.

  • zoar63 Mesa, AZ
    Jan. 31, 2012 3:17 p.m.

    @BrahmaBull

    "The church may not be racist now, but it used to be. If you have ever read the journal of discourses with talks by Brigham Young and others you would agree. I will not put those quotes here because I think they are rude, but if you want to check them out I encourage you to do so."

    That may have been true but it also reflected the mood of the country at the time in which those statements were made. The United States back then was also racist for the most part even after the Civil War. Research the attitudes of churches towards blacks and what they believed and you will see what I mean. Allso there were laws passed by congress that counted slaves as only one-third of a person.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 28, 2012 10:06 p.m.

    Esquire,

    Labels like "persecution complex" are logically fallacious and distract from the truth.

    Anyone who understands the core philosophies behind our beliefs, the nature of God, the nature of the entire work behind the church, etc. would know that when people 'fight the church' it is a real concern and one that we believe in addressing as best we are able or as God wants us to.

    The Book of Mormon has accounts of anti-Christ's fighting prophets of God. This mentality of "what's the point defending" is incompatible with our own beliefs, even the very nature of believing itself unless we believe in 100% indifference to everything (one then questions the point of existence). The entire point of this work is to convince others of the truth, to get up, get working, and help lift up others. The only "what's the point" that should be asked is why people criticize to begin with. Criticism is inherently a hostile action. After being attacked for beliefs, now you're claim is that we're illogical for defending them. This is far from any reasonable argument in any scholarly realm or school of thought.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 28, 2012 7:37 a.m.

    Scott Gordon omits the changes made to the Book of Mormon under President Hinkley. I'm not opining on this because it really doesn't matter. What I will say is that Joseph Walker, this newspaper and the LDS community still has a persecution complex and are thin-skinned about criticism from other religious quarters. It's time to get over it and be confident in who you are. So what if there is criticism. You aren't alone in being criticized.

  • Moderation including Moderation PLEASANTON, CA
    Jan. 27, 2012 10:04 p.m.

    Shouldnt we all seek a world without prejudice and bigotry. The constitution protects and allows for this freedom. These religious leaders need to keep this mind. Its a lesson all including those who are LDS should well remember.

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 7:35 p.m.

    sharrona
    Marion G Romney saidyears ago when I was a bishop(Heber J.)Grant talk to our war. After the meeting I drove him homeStanding by me ,he put his arm over my shoulder and said: My boy, you always keep your eye on the president of the Church, and if he tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, But you dont worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray. (Conference report Oct,1960 P.78)OK.

    LDS4
    Again, It doesn't matter what MGR, HJG or whoever said. If it's not sustained via Common Consent, it's just opinion. Martin Luther wanted the book of James removed from the Bible, but that isn't official Lutheran doctrine is it?

  • John20000 Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 3:28 p.m.

    The LDS church sends 19 year-olds with a few weeks training to publicly represent the church world-wide. If they are willing to do that, I doubt they are worried about some political ads that make fun of their beliefs.

  • ElsieM7 VALLEY VILLAGE, CA
    Jan. 27, 2012 1:47 p.m.

    I'm an Obama supporter and I promise never to slime your church. Because it's my church too. :)

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 10:50 a.m.

    @LDS4: Martin Luther wanted the book of James removed from the Bible, but that isn't official Lutheran doctrine is it?

    St. James Epistle is really an epistle of straw compared to [St. Paul's letters], for it lacks this evangelical character" Deutsche Bibel 6 as quoted in P988. Luther.
    Luther however, never declared James or any other New Testament book non-canonical. He quotes from James occasionally. Man is justified by faith alone, but not by faith that is alone. Luthers comment on James before his death .( James 2:14-26).

    Different category, Martin Luther never claimed to be a prophet or revelation;
    God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and he will make me be a god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be a mouth for me; and if you dont like, you must lump it.(DHC v. 6 pp 319,320.)

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 27, 2012 8:48 a.m.

    Some LDS members in the past were racist.

    As, I'm sure majority of American's in the past who used human trafficking for slave markets.

    This, is established. It is not a 'smear' campaign to acknowledge we HAD self-evident racism in America's, and her citizens', in the past.

    To claim it was somehow 'justified' because OTHER people did it?

    Not acceptable.

    To move FOWARD, and DENOUNCE discrimination in all it's forms?

    Is the only way to shake, such images off the LDS, or anyone else for that matter.

    Condeming discrimination, for whatever, reason, is the only way to set the example we all wish. That people will treat us fairly.

    To go BACK to such tactics..?

    To attempt to find 'reason' that 'X' minority 'should' do it and 'X' minority should not...?

    **'Dr. Laura's N-Word Rant: Radio Host Apologizes For Offensive Language' - Danny Shea - Huffington Post - 08/12/10

    'Dr. Laura Schlessinger has apologized after a shocking rant on her radio show this week during which she said the n-word 11 times over the course of five minutes.' - article

    Serves no purpose.

    And 'no'...

    I don't call my Mormon friends names or discriminate against them!

  • Tyler Ray Taylorsville, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 10:19 p.m.

    Funny when people call mormons racist when Joseph Smith basically adopted two slaves where they lived completely free in the smith house as family and Joseph Smith sold one of his own horses to buy the freedom of a slave. Yeah thats completely racist!

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 8:29 p.m.

    sharrona
    Marion G Romney saidyears ago when I was a bishop(Heber J.)Grant talk to our war. After the meeting I drove him homeStanding by me ,he put his arm over my shoulder and said: My boy, you always keep your eye on the president of the Church, and if he tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, But you dont worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray. (Conference report Oct,1960 P.78)OK.

    LDS4
    Again, It doesn't matter what MGR, HJG or whoever said. If it's not sustained via Common Consent, it's just opinion. Martin Luther wanted the book of James removed from the Bible, but that isn't official Lutheran doctrine is it?

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Jan. 26, 2012 6:57 p.m.

    Sharrona and alt134: You bring up points but none of the Presidents of the Church has led it astray. You may questions why they do what they do.

    The thing is that if you look at the way the country is led and you see how things really are you both would understand that nothing of the Church was actually racist. The Journal of Discourses are not and I repeat not official Church teachings. Many of these discourses are cited by second and third hand reports. This means that what was said in the discourses may not have actually been said or if so the entire context is missed. Using this to defend your position is exactly that pointless. They are not actual quotes of the individual.

    I have reasoned with myself and I have asked this question: Could the Church have grown as it did by allowing blacks to hold the priesthood prior to 1978? The answer to that question is a resounding NO. We believe in constant revelation and the Lord's time for reproving or changing PRACTICES are dependent upon him not man. As Joseph Smith once said, "If the Lord commands it, do it".

  • Munk Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 6:10 p.m.

    Oh yes those crazy insane wacky Mormons. Crazy! They tithe the church and wear garments.. .and other odd stuff... and they *gasp* used to be polygamists.

    We can toss a few other things in there.. .Mountain Meadows... etc etc...

    Soooo.. let us compare to other religions shall we? I think people are going to find that the LDS faith is actually one of the least strange and much more balanced.

    I mean.. my ward is full of loonies..

  • Iron Rod Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 5:08 p.m.

    Ok Where do the anti mormon attacks come from?

    I find it hard to believe that these attacks on Romney and the church come from Democrats!

    What reason would they have of wasting money on it?

    The attacks are coming from right wing Republicans. Most likely Evangelicals.

    LDS faithful ought to wise up and recognize who their friends are and who dis like them.

    At this point in time it is pretty clear to me.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 4:49 p.m.

    @Redwings
    "Compare the statements of Brigham Young and other Church leaders of his day about blacks to those being made by elected officals of the US government. These types of comments were common in those days, and not specific to the LDS Church.

    Also, our country was racist up to and past 1978. Many organizations did not allow black membership well after 1978. Why is the Church held to such a different standard?"

    The church claims to have the sole authority of receiving direct revelation from God and it is peculiar that the world (by which I mean the nation which was protesting BYU over the church's racial policies) would be leading the church rather than the church leading the nation in terms of being ahead of the game for things like racial equality.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 3:22 p.m.

    @LDS4. The prophets have also stated that anything said that isn't supported by scripture is an opinion, no matter who gives it. Very confusing which is truth?

    That seer his name shall be called Joseph(Smith), and it shall be after the name of his father. ( Genesis 50:33 JST)? JS, prophecy about himself.

    Joseph Smith Jr., Joseph son of Jacob, prophesied of the future mission of the Prophet JS twenty-four hundred years before the LDS prophet was born(50:33 JST ).(Religious truth defined by Joseph Fielding Smith, p.256-257)confirmed.
    Marion G Romney saidyears ago when I was a bishop(Heber J.)Grant talk to our war. After the meeting I drove him homeStanding by me ,he put his arm over my shoulder and said: My boy, you always keep your eye on the president of the Church, and if he tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, But you dont worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray. (Conference report Oct,1960 P.78)OK.

  • RedWings CLEARFIELD, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 1:31 p.m.

    Compare the statements of Brigham Young and other Church leaders of his day about blacks to those being made by elected officals of the US government. These types of comments were common in those days, and not specific to the LDS Church.

    Also, our country was racist up to and past 1978. Many organizations did not allow black membership well after 1978. Why is the Church held to such a different standard?

    As far as the "slime machine" - If Romney gets the nomination, there will be ads attacking his faith, but not by Obama. The Super PACs will do it. And Romney-supporting Super PACs will attack Obama on anything and everything they can. Campaigns have become an ugly, terrible thing to see. Integrity is gone. It is sad that good people from both parties stay out of politics because of the envrionment. Deep down I believe that both Romney and Obama are good men who love their country and want to help make it better. The political process just demonizes everyone and turns them into caricatures....Sad really....

  • Jiggle Clearfield, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 1:02 p.m.

    Religion doesn't have to play a role - or at least not to this extent. It mucks up the system. As a group, in the public discourse, religions tend to claim that some inherent moral superiority derives from having faith itself, and that moral superiority should supposedly prevent even atheists from publicly criticizing the quality of factual evidence for religions, and from criticizing the moral value of the personal choice to place the foundation of one's moral beliefs on faith. That obviously has the result of barring us from the most effective means of preventing religious extremism from ever taking hold: criticizing the legitimacy of religious faith itself. Religion is a perfectly legitimate, Constitutionally protected lifestyle choice, but it is not a valid basis for governing everybody. The Establishment Clause prohibits favoritism to any establishment of religion, which means to any particular faith. That leaves us with a secular political society even if this is a majority-Christian nation; the purpose of the Constitution is to prevent tyranny by the majority. Religion should be left out of politics and the REAL issues should be the focus of politics.....not a candidates religion or the lack thereof.

  • ciaobello Concord, CA
    Jan. 26, 2012 12:31 p.m.

    The problem is always someone outside looking in and claiming expertise. If anyone suffered murderous mobocracy it was the early Latter-day Saints, including some of the "best blood of the century" Joseph Smith Jr. The Smiths lost two sons to martyrdom that terrible day and a third son Samuel within weeks. I've been a member 50 years. People just do not understand the gospel and they easily can by taking the missionary lessons and deciding for themselves.

  • lds4gaymarriage Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 12:04 p.m.

    sharrona
    Brigham Young said some things that has many today gasping at what was said.
    Brigham Young, I never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call it Scripture, Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon and it is a good as Scripture as they deserve. (JoD v 13 p. 95 also see v. 13. P 264)

    LDS4
    All that shows is that BY was human and guilty of pride. Joseph Fielding Smith and Harold B. Lee both said that if they say anything contrary to scripture, that scripture prevails and their words are to be rejected. The prophets have also stated that anything said that isn't supported by scripture is an opinion, no matter who gives it.

    For any statement to become accepted as binding upon the Church, it must be confirmed by the Church via Common Consent.

    To make the claim that something BY said is official LDS teaching because of his quote above is specious. Without Common Consent, no statements, including the Proclamation on the Family and even revelations, are official teachings or binding upon the membership. Bottom Line.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 26, 2012 12:03 p.m.

    Oh please. I love DN subscibers comment that "It's the Chicago way, and right out of the community organizer's handbook- Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."

    Really? Really?

    And the stuff about Obama, his family, his supposed religion, his nationality, what "radical" play book did that come from. I swear, some people are so deep into believing their own stuff, they wouldn't recognize a balanced arguement if it smacked them in the face - twice. Sure the little catch phrase obviously stolen from some radio shock jock sounds cute, but it so defies truth is could almost be laughable.

    We are seeig the very same tactics used Repubican on Republican. Just ask Herman Cain, Newt, or Romney. Pretending that hard ball (and dishonest) politics is somehow the sole providence of Chicago style politics defies the nasty comments made about Utah's own Bennett, and now Hatch, from his fellow Utahns.

    But if making such rediculas comments gets the angry crowd to press the Recommend button, and thereby make themselves feel superior to another group of people, have at it.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 11:46 a.m.

    Hank Pym,

    Thank you for your comment. I will offer a reasoned response.

    First, contradictions have nothing to do with what I'm arguing. Second, the idea that something has been discredited is subjective. Credit is given, not inherent; thereby making this point irrelevant as well.

    -------

    However, I believe you were trying to argue that "just because someone 'attempts to' discredit or contend with a claim does not make the claim any more or less valid.

    By all means, I agree with this principle. I didn't argue that opposition proves anything. My argument is that by examining the opposition referenced as being recorded in the Book of Mormon in the past and examining the opposition the LDS Church often faces today- that it would only stand as evidence to support the truthfulness of the claims in the Book of Mormon and the claim that it is the true and restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

    If a book prophesies of how people will someday fight the LDS Church, and those come true. This is evidence to support that the book is an accurate record.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Jan. 26, 2012 11:22 a.m.

    Flashback - I don't understand. Are you saying that anybody that doesn't believe in mormonism is influenced by the devil?? That doesn't even make sense. People have a right to disagree with mormonism and not be labeled as being of the devil. I assume that since you are mormon that you are anti-catholic, anti-baptist, etc. right? So since 99.9 percent of the world population is not mormon would you consider them all anti-mormon? I am just trying to figure out how you claim that anybody who doesn't believe in mormonism is of the devil. Please explain.

  • Canuk SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 10:22 a.m.

    williary | 2:27 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012
    Kearns, UT

    Funny when he was sworn in, he insisted that they use his middle name.

  • IMAN Marlborough, MA
    Jan. 26, 2012 10:09 a.m.

    This article has the appearance of a(very)thinly veiled PR tactic from the LDS church's PR machine. De-humanize your potential opponent before reasoned debates and discussions even begin. Try and build a punlic perception of your opponent and frame it in a way that is favorable to the candidate you support. It's really not that clever and I believe most reasonable people will see right through this. This type of PR is more likely to hurt rather than help Romney. IMVHO he has so many flaws as a candidate that his religion is the least of his worries.

    P.S. I don't see and don't believe most people see his religion as a being flaw.

  • Kami Bountiful, Utah
    Jan. 26, 2012 9:45 a.m.

    Flashback | 9:36 a.m. Jan. 26, 2012
    Kearns, UT
    "When I was on my mission in Texas, it was a badge of honor for some people to go to the church where the pastor lived in the biggest house and drove the biggest Caddie. Mostly Southern Baptists.
    My bishop lives in a house the size of mine (about 1100 square feet up and about 900 down), he drives a mini van and has a job that he works at along with being bishop. I wear that as a badge of honor."

    And my Bishop now lives in the largest house in the ward. His prior 3,400 square foot home in the neighborhood was not large enough for his tastes, so he moved up and he moved up AFTER 3 out of 5 of his children had moved away. So I'd be careful if I were you blasting the apparent "Keep up with the Joneses" mentality you have seen in other religions -- it is alive and well in the Mormon church as well.

  • m.g. scott LAYTON, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 9:39 a.m.

    @skeptic

    Obama seems very ready to cut huge numbers of dollars and people out of the military budget. If he were to add that type of cutting to a lot more of goverment spending, we may have something.

    Or, maybe just cut the new government spending that Obama has added in 3 years with almost 5 trillion dollars of added debt. Either way there is a lot of room for cutting, if a President is willing to put a lot of government workers, military and civilian, out of work. What we need is a President who is willing to take the heat for causing more unemployment in the short term, in exchange for long term financial responsibility, and ultimately a better private sector economy. I'm not saying Romney or Gingrich are those guys, but I KNOW Obama isn't.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 9:36 a.m.

    I could care less what the anti-Mo forces think. They are duped by Satan.

    When I was on my mission in Texas, it was a badge of honor for some people to go to the church where the pastor lived in the biggest house and drove the biggest Caddie. Mostly Southern Baptists.

    My bishop lives in a house the size of mine (about 1100 square feet up and about 900 down), he drives a mini van and has a job that he works at along with being bishop. I wear that as a badge of honor.

    Isn't Priestcraft a wonderful thing, especially in the South?

  • t702 Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 26, 2012 9:24 a.m.

    "Anti-Mormon slime machine' kicks into gear"
    Compared to what the Pioneers faced in 1830s, this is a day to celebrate. Like it or not Mitt will be the next president of the great US of A.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 9:00 a.m.

    RE: JPL,of Michigan . While it is at one level a nice quote, to use it as a reference to people of African descent is to mis-read the Book of Mormon as a modern text.
    (Genesis 7:10 JST), And there was a blackness came upon all the children of Cainan, that they were despised among all people. And (Genesis 7:22 JST) ,..all the seed of Adam save it were the seed of Cain; for the seed of Cain were black and had not a place among them.

    RE: Bill in Nebraska, Brigham Young said some things that has many today gasping at what was said.
    Brigham Young, I never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call it Scripture, Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon and it is a good as Scripture as they deserve. (JoD v 13 p. 95 also see v. 13. P 264)

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Jan. 26, 2012 8:47 a.m.

    %m.g.scott, Most people will probably agree with you that spending and size of government needs to be reduced; but, the problem seems to be no one can agree to give up some of their spending, they just want others to give up theirs. So what should be reduced or eliminated. Who should pay a fair share and who should be excluded. It is like the childrens story: The little mice know they need protection and warning from the big fat cat, but who is going to put the bell on the cat. Now we have to decide by vote which cat we choose to have scurrying after us to chew us up.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 8:41 a.m.

    per A voice of Reason 1:05 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012

    Just because something is contradicted or discredited doesn't mean its really true. That type of "logic" is the very antithesis of reason.

    per Ernest T. Bass 7:38 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012

    Fixed noise is worse than MSNBC?

  • Dark Reaver SOUTH JORDAN, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 8:38 a.m.

    Cult:
    "The word originally denoted a system of ritual practices. The word was first used in the early 17th century denoting homage paid to a divinity and derived from the French culte or Latin cultus, âworshipâ, from cult-, âinhabited, cultivated, worshipped,â from the verb colere, 'care, cultivation'"

    All religions are "Cults", people need to get over it.

  • Rynn Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 26, 2012 8:29 a.m.

    This is just like sports rivalry. Only instead of athletic teams battling for the title of Number 1, it's religions battling for the title of Number 1.

  • m.g. scott LAYTON, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 8:04 a.m.

    @CoraSmith

    Do you understand that Obama has borrowed about 5 TRILLION dollars in tha last 3 years to "help you". Do you really think that is a workable good public policy? Bob Beckle on Fox News does. I don't. My logic tells me that eventually the bill for 15 plus trillion dollars will come due and we won't be able to pay it without massive inflation, i.e. printing of money. This train is headed in the wrong direction, and if it does not get turned around soon, the cliff will come and we will go over it as a nation.

  • m.g. scott LAYTON, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 7:52 a.m.

    I'm a Romney supporter first, a Gingrich supporter second. I do feel bad that it is from the Republican side that the attacks against the Mormons has begun. If the Democrats truly want me to look their way, then maybe if Romney gets the nomination, the attacks will stop. The best thing the Democrats and Obama could do for the country and themselves is see to it that the debate about who becomes President does not include arguments about the Mormons and Rev. Wright. I'am not holding my breath on that, but I'd be truly impressed if the Democrat Party were to have more class than the Republican Pastors that are engaging in this stuff.

  • Carrick Layton, 84041
    Jan. 26, 2012 6:54 a.m.

    Unfortunately there have been and will continue to be attacks from both sides of the political spectrum.

    The Mormon Quest for the Presidency: From Joseph Smith to Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman (2011) discusses the anti-mormon rhetorique that has accompanied the presidential campaigns of Romney and other Mormons.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Jan. 26, 2012 5:39 a.m.

    "I don't fully understand why blacks were not allowed the priesthood and honestly it has no affect at all on me or who I am."

    It has no effect on you at all? Could it be that you are not black?

    The church leaders were just following the prejudice of the day. Not a big deal for men to make that mistake.

    It is easy for the LDS to conclude that "god had a reason for it back then".
    How else can you look at it?

    But, for people that are supposed to be guided by god, one would think they would have been ahead of the curve.

    Did god have a reason, or make a mistake, or was he not consulted at all?

    Hmmm.

  • Max Charlotte, NC
    Jan. 26, 2012 4:13 a.m.

    With these pastors spewing so much non-sense it is no wonder that Evangelicals have a problem with the LDS. They just make it up out of thin air and the flock swallows it whole. What is more amazing is that reporters will report this stuff with no interest in checking to see if it is true. Wouldn't it occur to any responsible reporter that what these vitriolic ministers have to say may not be accurate? I mean, death squads??? REALLY?

  • Capella Bakersfield, CA
    Jan. 26, 2012 2:13 a.m.

    Bill in Nebraska, thank you for making my point.

    No one cares about opinions at the end of the day. The truth will win out, God will be vindicated and there is a Judgment Day coming.

    Go read your own history and stop spinning. You make honest Mormons blush.

  • Serenity Manti, UT
    Jan. 26, 2012 2:05 a.m.

    Cult: a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false, and directed by a charismatic, authoritarian leader.

    The definition of cult could refer to any religion at all depending on the ideas of different individuals. Some fit this definition a lot more than the LDS Church yet we are tagged with it.

    Why don't other religious groups use that name against each other? None believe the doctrines of the other. Why is the LDS Church the only one that ignorant "evangelists" insist on slandering with the use of that word? Is it because we don't fight back?

    Of all the religions in the world, I chose the LDS religion with a full knowledge of many other religions. It is pure religion and it is of God. People may not be perfect, not even Joseph Smith, but the truthfulness of the LDS doctrine shines through the darkness of imperfection because it is authored and authorized by the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Jan. 26, 2012 2:04 a.m.

    Tornogal,
    The easy answer to your question is there was no written basis.

    As I said elsewhere, we do not know why the Lord allowed the policy. We do not even know exactly how the policy came into being.

    That said, LDS doctrine is based on things far beyond the Book of Mormon. There is a passage in the Book of Abraham that I once thought related to this issue, and I was not born until 1980, so I should not have had an excuse. However that passage really is unclear on the matter. In fact Darius Gray argues that the Mormon views on this issue were largely based on existing protestant interpretations of the Bible. It was not Mormons who invented the Ham to the blacks connection idea. The Book of Abraham no more supports this than Genesis. In fact the Book of Abraham tells of three righteous women who were descendants of Ham and slain because they served the true God.

    However there is no evidence in scripture to suppose that descendants of Ham are black. In fact there is strong evidence that there are multiple Jewish groups scattered through Africa.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Jan. 26, 2012 1:59 a.m.

    Of my last 10 friends to get married, one was a white lady who married a black man in the Detroit Temple. I could also point out that the opening prayer at the 2008 Republican National Convention was given by a black Mormon man with a white wife. I could list several more cases of this, from bishops in Eagle Mountain to mission presidents in Brazil. All the Haitian Mormon women I have known had white husbands. OK, that is a sample of two, but still.

    I would reccomend people get Perkins and Gray's "Blacks in the Scriptures" DVDs. I would agree that many members of the Church lack sensitivity on issues related to "race" (even if I agree with Perkins that race is a false notion) and that we will not make true progress in converting large numbers of African Americans and retaining them in the Church until we learn how to speak about issues related to the priesthood policy that the Lord allowed to be in place with sensitivity.

    Jeffery R. Holland and Gordon B. Hinckley among others have made key comments on this, but we need to face the issue head on.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Jan. 26, 2012 1:50 a.m.

    I would point out that some of the nasty things said against Romney and Mormons have come from Democrats. My class mates saying mocking things about Romney serving a mission in France were by no means Republicans.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Jan. 26, 2012 1:49 a.m.

    I would agree with Marvin Perkins and disagree with Gordon that even the 2nd Nephi mention is to "blacks". Black is being used figuratively in that passage, and has nothing to do with "race" (which is in most respects a false notion anyway). While it is at one level a nice quote, to use it as a reference to people of African descent is to mis-read the Book of Mormon as a modern text.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 11:33 p.m.

    We're a peculiar people, except when we don't want to be.

  • Kirk R Graves West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 10:46 p.m.

    Tornogal | 4:18 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012

    I am LDS and I don't really know. Joseph Smith ordained at least 1 black man to the priesthood, so it wasn't theological as far as I can tell. I can tell you that living it Utah, race (especially black) simply isn't an issue. There simply aren't enough black people for people to get racist about. Besides, with all the return missionaries here, who have served all over the world, we are a pretty racially tolerent group as far as I can tell.

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    Jan. 25, 2012 10:09 p.m.

    I love it when some members purposely mislead and say things that are half true.

    President Brigham Young said some things that has many today gasping at what was said. There were some other early leaders that said somethings along the same line. So what. When HUCKLEBERRY FINN came out it was and is still a classic. So is UNCLE TOM'S CABIN, but today these books are banned in many schools as being discreminatory. They were written in a time much different than today. The same is said of these early leaders. I recognize the fault of these men and yet I have read these books and find them quite entertaining and without any gall. The same I find from early leaders of the Church.

    I don't fully understand why blacks were not allowed the priesthood and honestly it has no affect at all on me or who I am. To hold these men to today's standards is totally and completely wrong and misleading. It just makes them men, not perfect by any nature. I have more respect for them than I will ever have for those who purposely mislead and attack these men after their deaths.

  • vic Colorado Springs, CO
    Jan. 25, 2012 9:42 p.m.

    Interesting comments in this article by men-of-the-cloth. And yet, they are unaware of why this country was established with the phrase of "freedom of religion" and why it is a bad thing to have religion controlling a country. It is also apparent that they are unaware of the establishment clause in the constitution.

    but, I am wondering, since they are so anti-mormon, if a person was a hindu, sikh, jew, etc; would they also be so anti-conformity? I suspect they would be.

  • Instereo Eureka, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 9:10 p.m.

    I'm amazed how this article starts with Obama criticizing Romney for his Mormon faith and then it tells of all the Republicans who are already doing it. I just have to ask why Obama would even care, it's evangelicals that think Mormons are a cult and constantly attack and write the anti-mormon tracks. Also if you look at history, it was the democrats that supported Utah Statehood, not the Republicans. I think there is plenty in Romney's platform to argue against, his faith is not one of the things that are important to democrats. As an active LDS member and a democrat, that's the way I see it.

  • Arm of Orion Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 8:56 p.m.

    Brahma I would just like to point out that every church that was controlled by white people had to deal with racism. Even Lincoln the great emancipator was racist. God can only work with those he has at his disposal. At the time they were ignorant of the truth slowly God educated them. Remember we teach line upon line precept upon precept as mankind is able to bear the truths revealed.

    Although to refute that in the JoD Brigham has also stated that blacks are to be treated equally along with other leading brethren at the time.

  • BobP Port Alice, B.C.
    Jan. 25, 2012 8:33 p.m.

    I wonder if evangelicals are really Christian.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 7:38 p.m.

    The right's slime machine is much worse than the left's.

  • shaun_ SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 7:01 p.m.

    Is it wrong to be Anti-Mormon? Is it wrong to be anti anything?

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 7:00 p.m.

    From the quote in article, "..that the church is doctored up and painted nicely.." The media and Hollywood have ignored religions (and especially the LDS church) for 50 years now and yet the Brethren have never sought to be popular with them, and now that the Church is all over the news, the media elites are embarrassed that they have ignored the truth for so long and while this was all happening, the Church was winning (and has been winning since 1830) and keeping very humble and subtle and quiet about how the truth will eventually prevail. All churches a hundred years ago lacked diverse leadership, but the difference is one church changed in one day while the others changed over time. I don't think Mr. Obama would ever bring up the 1978 revelation, but so many in his party haven't forgotten it.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 6:50 p.m.

    The attacks will come from the left----count on it, Frank Rich is a huge Democratic figure and he thinks LDS are monsters---you can google his comments he made in 2008. Pres. Obama respects all religions, (and owes a lot to Harry Reid for keeping the senate in 2010) but many in his party, most in his party is anti-religion----and that is media, universities, scientists, and the Hollywood elites.

  • don17 Temecula, CA
    Jan. 25, 2012 6:40 p.m.

    Two Cents: It is a matter of Principle to not vote for someone like Newt Gingrich who endorses and wraps within his campaign anti-mormon supporters. He embraces this divisivness because it supports his desire and greed to become President. He is a known lier and cheat. Why would one of us assume he could not stoop even lower? His pride owns him.

    I will not vote for the better of two if both espouse intent of low moral character.

  • Gemimi Bakersfield, CA
    Jan. 25, 2012 6:09 p.m.

    Well thanks, FAIR apologist. I just spit my coffee all over the table. Your twisting and redefining of the word "black" is truly a pretzel adventure of contortionist proportions. Wish I would have had your eloquent gifts when I was growing up LDS. Then I could have explained to my friends how I wasn't racist or bigoted, my church just had different definitions of what black really meant.

    I could have foregone all those squints and guffaws when I tried to explain that my great-grandaddies went to prison for being polygamists but that now we didn't believe it, but that we believed we would be living it in heaven, which was filled with polygamists. I could have just passed on the Mother in Heaven thing and the Celestial Kingdom requirements we learned in seminary.

    But I shared and defended it, no matter how irrational and unbiblical the new revelations were. Yes, we can become gods, why is that strange?

    Biblical Christians are appalled at Mormon doctrines because they completely deny the veracity of the Bible as God's infallible Word, they deny His character and essence as given in His text. They rewrote and redefined historic Christianity.

    Stop bloviating.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 5:56 p.m.

    Sometimes you have to put your own windmills at which to tilt.

  • Capella Bakersfield, CA
    Jan. 25, 2012 5:54 p.m.

    What's more scary is that Mormons won't own up to, or worse, don't even read their own history from source documents like Church History, Journal of Discourses, The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, etc.

    Let's take our own Pew Poll here, my pew. I'm 7th generation and I know my history. Who organized and when were the Danites first dispatched? Who and how many participated in the massacre at Enterprise, UT? Where were more victims murdered- Haun's Mill or Mountain Meadows? What were the lovely words of Brigham and his council, from the pulpit, on the "curse of the negro man"? Who said that all Christian denominations were an abomination and that all their creeds and teachers were false? Who allowed one man of the 50 to meet the firing squad in 1877, after allowing him to dine with him for over 20 years?

    My ancestors died in the Willey Handcart Co., forged across the plains, eked out a living as potato farmers, and sacrificed everything they had for this church. They would be appalled at the total lack of honesty in claiming the truth of the prophets they followed.

    I could go on, but it is pointless.

  • Aggielove Junction city, Oregon
    Jan. 25, 2012 5:43 p.m.

    Makes me even more solid in my foundation.

  • wandrew Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 5:40 p.m.

    I think the good pastor was actually thinking of the Pearl of Great Price (Moses 7:22). Most modern LDS would bristle at the thought of this being used to prove the Church is racist; but then this passage may have been read differently 40 years ago. LDS practices from many years ago may well come back to haunt prominent members in the 20th Century. But then we have never burned people at the stake for heresy. Catholics rarely get stuck with that responsibility these days. It was the product of a different time.

  • LDSBORN Nashville, TN
    Jan. 25, 2012 5:37 p.m.

    I have never been an Obama fan, but under the circumstance we are in with everyone running I think we may be better off for another 4 years. Mitt just doesn't understand the average person at all.

  • suzyk#1 Mount Pleasant, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 5:20 p.m.

    Boy of boy, all these comments I read certainly open your eyes and thoughts. I am a very grateful, active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. From what I read there are many who are just confused about the truth of the Book of Mormon and we as God's children become negative and apprehensive when we don't know or understand something. I believe this is the case with all of the colorful comments about the Mormon Church. I would suggest that instead of making unwarranted and negative comments that you get down on your knees and pray to your Heavenly Father, read the Book of Mormon and then you too, will know what is the Truth. There will be no doubt in your mind and you feel a peace in your heart. I did and I do.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 5:19 p.m.

    @nick
    "Saved by cheap grace and born againism has been Satan most effective tool in America. "

    Well that's fantastic, an article about slime thrown at Mormons and your response is to throw slime at evangelicals. I hope you don't mind when the LDS church is called a cult, lest you be a hypocrite.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 5:11 p.m.

    "...It is difficult to imagine that running against President Obama will draw out any more anti-Mormon rhetoric than the current Republican campaign has drawn...".

    Exactly.

  • Two Cents Springville, Utah
    Jan. 25, 2012 4:39 p.m.

    Big Red,
    Don't waste your vote. If Newt gets the nomination, hold your nose and pull the lever. We CANNOT afford (in more than one way) four more years of Obama. I will do the same if it comes down to that.

    Pagan,
    ANYONE would be a better VP than Joe Biden. What a goofball.

    I liked Newt two-three months ago, but he has gotten mean, and it's a turn-off. I wish Cain had stayed in the race.

  • ulvegaard Medical Lake, Washington
    Jan. 25, 2012 4:39 p.m.

    I have never known a time when arguing religion has ever benefited anyone; at least not in the long run.

    I am LDS and for every positive thing I might bring up about my faith, someone will counter it with something negative --- much like a battle between the Hatfields and the McCoys.

    Whether it be right wing conservative, Democratic leftist, or some ultra secretive terrorist organization, ridiculing anyone's personal beliefs is never appropriate.

  • sid 6.7 Holladay, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 4:30 p.m.

    Well said Cora, well said!

  • DaveRL OGDEN, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 4:28 p.m.

    I find it amazing that a conservative writer would try to drag the Obama campaign into the behavior and tactics of the current Super-Pacs involved in the GOP Primaries. Then again maybe the purpose was to incite anger over something that has not happened yet....

  • Cora Smith BOUNTIFUL, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 4:19 p.m.

    Obama has said absolutely nothing about the Mormon religion. Now, have any active LDS members repeated stories and made claims after Obama won the Presidency? Did you say things that you did not know were true, but you still repeated the stories? You remember dont you? Obamas a Muslim, Obamas a Marxist, Obamas a socialist, Obama is going to get your guns, Obama is not an American citizen, Obama is going to force everybody to make him king, Etc. The President doesn't care if Romney is LDS. Some of you might ask yourself if talking trash about our good President, who has tried, even in the face of his obstructionist cohorts in the White House, to help the middle class and the poor regain what they lost under the republican leadership of Bush. The wealthy don't need help. They have the Grover Norquist/Koch teams to lobby the republicans, the rest of us need Obama.

  • Tornogal LITTLE ROCK, AR
    Jan. 25, 2012 4:18 p.m.

    I am not a Mormon and I am confused.

    If, as the article says, there is no basis for a "curse" on African Americans in the Book of Mormon, what was the basis for not letting Blacks participate fully in the LDS church until 1978?

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Jan. 25, 2012 4:04 p.m.

    %poqui, You state: So why is the Mormon Church being picked on for not allowing those with African ancestry to hold the priesthood?

    It seems pretty benign compared to what the religion of the other GOP candidates did.

    Perhaps if you were black you would see things differently.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 3:45 p.m.

    'So why is the Mormon Church being picked on for not allowing those with African ancestry to hold the priesthood?' - Poqui | 3:24 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012

    2 reasons:

    1) This happened until 1978. Not some distant past.

    2) Because if you are supposed to have integrity...

    you do not rely on the actions of OTHERS, as 'justification' for discrimination that YOU, support.

    Your actions will then ALWAYS be decided...by the actions of others.

    REGARDLESS, of the flavor.

    Mormon, Prodestant or Mulsim.

    Having ingetrigty means that you are responsible for YOURSELF.

    Regardless of what 'the other guy' does.

    And, as we hopefully ALL agree that discrimination is WRONG...

    justying it to OTHERS...

    is exactly the same reason why Mormons have felt the sting of persecution, themselves.

    Missouri executive order 44, October 27, 1838.

  • Big Red '93 The High Plains of, Texas
    Jan. 25, 2012 3:42 p.m.

    The LDS Church preaches that it has the truth,and we actively preach in all communities, so therefore, it is expected we should be attacked. And so it has been since its inception, nothing new there. And we shouldn't expect anything less from misinformed preachers who's livings depend on their religious base.

    I am more and more convinced that the Republican ideals have changed over the years, and that they talk from both sides of their mouths. Being somewhat moderate myself, I see that as potentially a good thing, but it is all show and tell during the primaries. Personally, I don't understand how the evangelicals can endorse Gingrich with all his baggage and his smug attitude, and yet go after Romney for his clean living ideals and example. I wouldn't put it past Gingrich to have converted to Catholicism because he knew he wanted to run for the Presidency. It's all hypocrisy at its finest.

    If Gingrich is nominated for the Republican party, I for one will waste my vote. I don't think I could take 4 years of Gingrich.

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Jan. 25, 2012 3:27 p.m.

    ClarkHippo - I don't think playing the numbers game and quoting that because there are 13 million members there must be some divine influence. So what, there are 15 million methodists, 500 million catholics, and over a billion muslims. So does that mean they are better just because of sheer numbers? All of them sprouted from 1 person with a claim. Every single one of them.

  • Poqui Murray, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 3:24 p.m.

    It was Southern Baptist preachers who started the KKK and encouraged their members to join.

    It was the Catholic Church who persecuted and killed Jews during the Inquisition and then killed millions of Native Americans with the Conquistas.

    So why is the Mormon Church being picked on for not allowing those with African ancestry to hold the priesthood?

    It seems pretty benign compared to what the religion of the other GOP candidates did.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 3:13 p.m.

    Let me be clear.

    I take issue with religion. When people use theology to affect my FACTUAL life, I want evidencet. Not more theology.

    And I think that ALL religions, whatever flavor, are not based on evidence, rationale, or facts. As such, I think ALL religions are 'cults.'

    It is not specific to Mormonism.

    That said:

    I think Huntsman was the best GOP canidate. I might vote for him in 2016 and I think he would be a BETTER VP than Biden.

    My experiences in Utah have shown me that there, like the bad, GOOD Americans who just HAPPEN...

    to be Mormon.

    People of EXCELLENT character, who I would want by my side in bad situations.

    And if anyone has reffered to the LDS faith as a 'cult' (I think they are a Christian-based faith)...

    It is the supporters of Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum.

    Obama has said NOTHING about Mitt Romney's faith, to date.

    Zero.

  • MoJules Florissant, MO
    Jan. 25, 2012 3:00 p.m.

    OK, everyone tonight at midnight, go outside and look at the sky, then write what you see. Guess what, we are all going to see it differently, and some may not see the stars cause there are tons of clouds. I think that we sometimes don't see the stars because of the clouds that are covering the sky. So people will see what they want to see in Mormon's and they will not see who they really are, because of the clouds that are blocking their view. As for race, which is a view that many still want to have their view blocked, I moved away from Utah and attend a ward that has quite a few blacks in the ward. They are great people and I love them for them, not for the color of their skin. But I will tell you who I can't stand, is white people who constantly use the racist card. I think that when someone accuses a person or a group of being racist, the accuser is the actual true racist. Cause most people are not even thinking about that.

  • deep in thought Salt Lake, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 2:53 p.m.

    My husband served a mission in the south.

    He told me that many churches have their once yearly meeting to warn their members against Mormons. He rightly pointed out that I would probably be biased against Mormons too if I had a yearly Sunday School lesson planted right in my manual that relied on obscure facts and details that made Mormons sound crazy and strange. Those who are biased are hardly bad people, just misinformed by those who hold influence in their lives. We don't need to feel outraged.

    Having both Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman running gave not only one face but two faces to what a Mormon looks like. The more exposure we can get the better I say. All the mud slinging in the world can't be worse from what people are already believing and teaching in private.

    My brother just graduated from Harvard Med school last year. There was a highly educated medical resident there who believed that because he was Mormon he was a polygamist and was wary of him for months before she finally confronted him on the issue. He was shocked and dismayed, but glad to explain.

    Let us be patient as the Lord rolls forth His work and more and more walls are broken down. I am pleased to be a part of this great generation and see His great work spread on every continent in His way and in His own time.

  • Jim Mesa, Az
    Jan. 25, 2012 2:45 p.m.

    Nothing like false doctrine to scare people...Nowhere, absolutely nowhere in the Book of Mormon will you find the word Negro or black skin. Yep nothing like a bit of false doctrine to scare people.

  • casual observer Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 2:44 p.m.

    The most depressing aspect is that people who deal in this siliceous material are eligible to vote. Plato worried about this and 2500 years later it hasn't changed.

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 2:40 p.m.

    The Republicans are the ones with the anti-Mormon slime machine. Watch it work wonders for Gingrich and Santorum. But of course (wink, wink) it is Obama's fault!

  • williary Kearns, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 2:27 p.m.

    I'll take the road that the Republicans on this site took in a very eerily similar situation in 2008.

    When the issue of race was brought up in regards to Barrack Obama, not to mention the use of his middle name for nothing other than a scare tactic, it was you folk who brushed these notions off. Had nothing to do with race.

    Just like this has nothing to do with religion.

    Can't have it both ways.

    There are plenty of other reasons that Obama will attack Romney, plenty, trust me.

  • JoeBlow Miami Area, Fl
    Jan. 25, 2012 2:25 p.m.

    "Gordon said, "there is only one actual mention of blacks in the Book of Mormon:"
    "it doesn't really have anything to do with blacks or Africans in any time period, let alone today."

    By his response, one would think that the issue of skin color was never even mentioned in the LDS church.

    Nice deflection.

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 2:23 p.m.

    In reference to the Communist scare of the 1950's, I once heard someone say, "The best weapon the Soviet Union has is Joe McCarthy."

    I'm not comparing the Soviet Union to the LDS Church, but if certain groups or writers insist on whipping up people into frenzy regarding the LDS Church and its doctrine; sensationalizing, distorting and down right lying about the church, those that will most benefit in the end will be the LDS Church.

    The "slime machine" has been at work since 1830 and from 1830 to today, the LDS Church has grown from eight to 13-million members.

    "No unhallowed hand can stop this work from progressing." - Joesph Smith

  • Destry Orem, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 2:15 p.m.

    In response to the inaccurate accusations being launched at the church and it's members, I echo what Elder David S Baxter recently declared to the students of the Orem Institute: "Let them do their worst. We will continue to do our best." In spite of opposition, however fierce, we can continue to champion love, communication, civility, and respect. Let them do their worst. We will continue to do our best.

  • Jonathan Eddy Payson, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 2:10 p.m.

    If the Mormon Church really is a cult, there is no harm in any ridicule. If Joseph Smith was not a liar, at some point in the future, it will be interesting to see how many evangelical pastors that will be running for cover and apologizing as quickly as their mouths can move.

    Time will tell who is right and who is toast.

  • don17 Temecula, CA
    Jan. 25, 2012 2:09 p.m.

    In a number of past posts I layed out through numeric fact that the Republican Party cannot win this election without the Mormon vote. Their are states not traditionally seen as Mormon states that would go to Obama if the Mormons didn't vote! For example, Indiana, Missouri and North Carolina. The margin of victory by the Republicans was so small that just removing the Mormon vote guarantees defeat. Respective electorial votes 11,10 and 15. That is 36 electroral votes. Now take out Utah, Arizona, Wyoming, Idaho, Nevada and New Mexico and the Republicans have ZERO chance. Just a reminder: Mitt Romney received 385,000 votes in the Arizona primary-2008. 38% of the party vote in McCain's state. People waited 4 hours to vote! In California Mitt Romney was done and received 1.2 million votes. He has a chance in California, but no other Republican can take this state. I am a Republican, but I will not vote for any man(Gingrich or Santorum) who fails to support religious toleration for all people! Including Mormons! Gingrich and Santorum scream about the Constitution, but only when it benefits their GREED! They are modern day bigots supported by such!

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 2:07 p.m.

    who cares? by their fruits ye shall know them. repubs are guilty of this slime as much as libs and dems. paganeete is right and I am marking this down as a first!

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:54 p.m.

    The conflict within Mormons is that they contain so much of what they express detestation for in non-Mormons. They wish to be recognized for what they say they are; not for what they are. That makes for difficult relations.

  • Terry Sandy, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:52 p.m.

    With the separation of church and state, shouldn't it be that church's that have their leaders endorse or slander political candidates lose their status as a non profit, non political religious entity?

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:41 p.m.

    Wow the moderators won't even let a simple factual statement get through? I don't see that this comment violates any of your criteria for posting a comment.

    The church may not be racist now, some statements in the past say otherwise. If you have ever read the journal of discourses with talks by Brigham Young and others you may agree with me. I will not put those quotes here because I think they are rude, but if you want to check them out I encourage you to do so.

  • papi_chulo Ogden, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:40 p.m.

    "Mormonism, if you study the whole history of it, and I'm not trying to create a problem, but they had death squads that would go around and kill everybody that wasn't a Mormon,"

    ---This guy is mistaken....he forgets to mention the "extermination order" by Governer Boggs in Missouri to exterminate everyone who was a Mormon. If they tried to do this in todays time it would be the beginning of Armageddon and it will come soon enough.

  • Uncle Gadianton Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:31 p.m.

    A few days ago, about 25% of South Carolina Republicans admitted that they voted against Mitt Romney because of his faith. Now, we have comments coming from (or approved by) Republican candidates.

    Yesterday, the Republican Party called me and asked for a donation. I refused, because the party discriminates against me for my religious beliefs. They want my money, but they don't want me. Unless the Republican Party repudiates the bigotry of its own delegates and elected officials, I will look to other political parties for my support.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:29 p.m.

    @ADN
    "I don't know why people are so opposed to a book that shows us that Jesus Christ is the God of this whole earth, not just the children of Israel in the middle east area."

    I think their issue is with the claim that it's scripture.

    "If the Lord wants prophets teaching people in America or any other part of the world, who are we to tell Him that He can't do that? "

    The Lord can do a lot of things... but just because he can... doesn't mean he did. So nobody is saying he can't do that... just that he didn't do that.

    @EPJ
    "preaching the precepts of men as true Christian doctrine. "
    "If current Christianity is defined by the adherence to the almost 2000 years' worth of man's ever-changing philosophies and interpretations of what Jesus Christ taught, then of course there will be many differences."

    In essence you just said that other Christian denominations are corrupt. See, this is why it never ends. Each denomination, including the LDS church, and I can tell that because I feel like I'm the only one ever calling out these sorts of comments here, is attacking others.

  • Cougar Blue N. Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:27 p.m.

    The anti-Mormon slime machine has already kicked into geat, big time. And, of course, it's led by the same party that we love to keep in power. Go figure.

  • Claudio Springville, Ut
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:26 p.m.

    See the problem with all of you on here, for the large part, who have supported Mr. Romeny is you seem to think this is a campaign about Mormons and their greater acceptance into society. If I've misinterpreted that, please go back and re-read your comments. Hopefully, you'll be able to understand how I, a member of the LDS Church for over 20 years, could misunderstand your words. If that is true, then Mr. Romeny is certain to fail. If his supporters are so confused so as to think this is a campaign about religious tolerance over presidential succession, then Mr. Romney hasn't got a prayer at winning the election and would have an even tougher battle to win the nomination than he already does. For goodness sake, either get in line with his policies or back someone else. Enough of the Book of Mormon comparisons and honking the horn of Mormon societal acceptance. I promise you, that is NOT why he is running!

    And DN Subscriber, Mr. Santorum and Mr. Gingrich are in the Republican party. Any of their supporters are advocating for President Obama's defeat. Apparently that tidbit escaped your mind today...and every other day.

  • Ray in St.Petersburg Saint Petersburg, FL
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:22 p.m.

    WHOA, DN Subscriber, how do you make the leap from "scurrilous attacks" to Democrats? The "scurrilous attacks" emanate from angry Republicans who oppose Mitt Romney, of this I have no doubt.

  • Ventor West Valley City, Utah
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:18 p.m.

    Are these guys for real. Its like someone took a time machine to the 19th century, pulled them from there incredibly bigoted time period, and brought them to ours. I find it unconscionable that any prominent pastor of any faith wouldn't take the time to really study our history and beliefs. For goodness sake, introduce these guys to the Church's main website and the Church News web site so they can see the fruit of our people. Love, Service, faith in Christ. That is all they will find.

  • EPJ Grantsville, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:12 p.m.

    Hopefully most people can see the conflict of interest with those preachers who attempt to dismiss The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, by calling them a non-christian cult. Of course these preacher are going to attempt to defame The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in order to protect their priestcraft, their livelihood . . . it is how they make a livingâby preaching the precepts of men as true Christian doctrine. Some of their beliefs are correct. Some are not.

    If current Christianity is defined by the adherence to the almost 2000 years' worth of man's ever-changing philosophies and interpretations of what Jesus Christ taught, then of course there will be many differences. This difference is the very reason why The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was established, by a Prophet called and authorized of God The Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.

  • Otis Spurlock Ogden, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:11 p.m.

    I miss Michael Ash.

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:10 p.m.

    Just a minor correction: it should be Rodney Howard-Browne, not Howard Rodney-Browne. The guy happens to have his own vocal critics within the Christian community, but that's probably irrelevant for the discussion at hand.

  • A voice of Reason Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 1:05 p.m.

    If one compared every example in the Book of Mormon of someone contending with the Church- such as Zeezrom's attempt to discredit Amulek and destroy anything good for the sake of personal gain- if one compared every similar instance in the Book of Mormon to the continual barrage of attempts made today, it would stand only to testify of the truthfulness of this gospel.

  • cval Hyde Park, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:55 p.m.

    I don't know whether Mitt can win the Presidency. If he does... great. One thing I do know is that the LDS Church is far better known now that it was before he ran, and that win or lose for Mitt, his candidacy has increased the Church's stature in the World and the USA.

    The stereotypical comments, beliefs and slurs that some love to hurl against the LDS Church are so ridiculous, that anyone who knows many members can see them for what they are.

    The stereotypes will continue to be broken down until the time when a Mormon could be President. Are we there yet? That is the question.

    We all have opinions, but none of us know.

  • Theeng2 Holladay, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:50 p.m.

    This is why it will be hard for Mitt to gain any southern support...

    "...for the millions who attend Southern Baptist churches, this is hardly a new discussion. For nearly the past 40 years, the Southern Baptist Convention has devoted considerable effort to teaching its members about the dangers of Mormonism. In fact, probably no other organization in the nation has played a bigger role in perpetuating the idea that Mormonism is a cult than the Southern Baptist Convention.

    They developed programs, trained pastors, hosted Mormonism-awareness conferences, and published articles to help spread the message to Southern Baptists that Mormonism was a dangerous cult religion they had to avoid. The SBC's Sunday School Board developed an instruction kit, "The Christian Confronting the Cults,..."

    I can't post the whole thing, but it's a good article. I was a missionary in the South and it was both a positive and eye opening experience.

  • Frisbee player Draper, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:49 p.m.

    @JoCo Ute

    Yeah, the only problem with the democratic party is its socialistic agenda...why would anybody want that for your country?

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:48 p.m.

    DN Subscriber said, "It's the Chicago way, and right out of the community organizer's handbook- Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals." Although the slime will never seem to come from the Obama campaign, or the Democrat party, there is no mystery as to the motivation or beneficiary of these scurrilous attacks."

    In case you hadn't noticed, all of these comments are coming from right wing Christian Pastors who are working for other Republican candidates and want to scare the Republicans supporting Romney into thinking he has no chance to beat President Obama. Your begging the question by insinuating these comments come from the Democrats is no different than the small minded pastors who should know better than to make the claims they are making. Your claims are just as false.

  • DRay Roy, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:42 p.m.

    Joseph Walker's article is informative and reflects expectations of many LDS as one of our own is in the national spotlight. Frightening thing is that so many vote without really understanding, or taking the time to understand, the candidates and their positions. These soundbites such as that mormons are racist fly, even in the face of all the conversions of African-Americans, and the actual practice of treating all races with respect and equal-opportunity. Book of Mormon expressed belief that only unrepentant sin creates inequality among God's children should be looked at. Those who won't vote for a Mormon do not know or understand them.

  • Kirk R Graves West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:40 p.m.

    JoCo Ute | 12:25 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012

    Actually, Utah was predominently Democrat just a couple generations ago.
    However, when I (a LDS) have to choose between the party that supports my moral and constitutional views (at least on paper) but doesn't like my religion, or the party that will accept my religious views but works against my moral and constitutional views, I'll take the first one every time. I have thick enough skin to put up with them not liking me.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:39 p.m.

    '"Mitt Romney's religious faith is likely to be mocked, sensationalized, disparaged and dragged through the media gutters" in the event of an election race between Romney and President Barack Obama.' - article

    And yet:

    **'Fox News host: Romney not Christian' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 07/17/11

    **'Rick Perry backer decries Mitt Romney, Mormons' - By Jamshid Ghazi Askar, Deseret News - 10/08/11

    **Cult of Mormon comment leads Newt Gingrichs Iowa political director, Craig Bergman, to resign - By Tad Walch Deseret News 12/14/11

    **Rick Santorum-backing pastor plays the Mormon cult card By Joseph Walker Deseret News 01/20/2012

    FYI, these...

    are NOT Obama!

    The Deseret News needs to stop perpetuating this complete falsehood:

    **'President Obama's purported 'weird'-Mormon strategy against Mitt Romney will backfire, pundits say' - By Hal Boyd, Deseret News - 08/10/11

    As, it's 2012.

    WHAT, has Obama said about Mitt Romney's, faith??

    Zero.

    That is all...

    empty Republican rhetoric.

  • AZRods Maricopa, AZ
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:39 p.m.

    Atl, in addition to Obama attending Rev Wright's church, which is factual, he also left his long time church/religion due to the caustic content of it's doctrine which was quickly swept under the democrat's rug.
    Wouldn't they call that flip flopping of the highest (or lowest) level?

    So as we take heat for "being" LDS, I'm amazed how comfortably Obama crawled out from under a hate filled church and abandoned his religion.

    Can you imagine the cries of flip flopping and religion bashing that would go on if people actually had anything of substance against Mitt?

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:36 p.m.

    The church may not be racist now, but it used to be. If you have ever read the journal of discourses with talks by Brigham Young and others you would agree. I will not put those quotes here because I think they are rude, but if you want to check them out I encourage you to do so.

  • ADN Weiser, ID
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:35 p.m.

    I don't know why people are so opposed to a book that shows us that Jesus Christ is the God of this whole earth, not just the children of Israel in the middle east area. The Book of Mormon shows us that the Lord can have prophets anywhere He chooses and that He can have them teach His same gospel and even write it down for future generations. How can we be so arrogant as to think that we can tell the Lord what He can do, and who He can do it with. If the Lord wants prophets teaching people in America or any other part of the world, who are we to tell Him that He can't do that?

    I for one am so grateful to have more of God's words. I love the Bible and read it and try to live by the principles taught in it. I also love the Book of Mormon which teaches the same truths because it is by the same author: Prophets of Jesus Christ.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:34 p.m.

    I doubt this will really be much of an issue since Mitt will most likely lose in Florida anyway and then bow out shortly thereafter. I am thinking Romney is back with his family by the end of February and Gingrich is the nominee. The anti- mormon trash is mostly coming from the so-called Christian right which also happens to be a lot of Tea Party people. Mitt really had no chance at the nomination from the jump. The hypocritical thing here is that the far right conservatives want a purist Reagan conservative and what they are getting in Gingrich is a man who cheated - TWICE - on his wife and was forced out of congress. Also we recall the wonderful photo - op of Gingrich setting with Nancy Pelosi and chatting warmly about global warming. Gingrich is a showman and he plays - very nicely - to the audience that he is speaking to. Same with Obama. I guess these guys are meant to run against each other. Romney is the only one that can fix our sunken economy but he is not a showman and ... he is mormon (complete with horns).

  • JoCo Ute Grants Pass, OR
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:25 p.m.

    Given the history of right-wing extremists how anyone could be surprised? I'll never understand why Mormons embrace the Republican Party the way they do. The national Republican Party throws Utah a few bones and until it really matters, as it does with Romney, and then the extremist element of the Republican Party start the hate campaign. The liberal Democratic Party is far more accepting and embracing of religious and philosophical differences that the Republicans will ever be.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:25 p.m.

    If that anti-mormon slime machine gets Ron Paul elected, you will have one proud Mormon.

  • OnlyInUtah Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:23 p.m.

    The intelligence of those labeling the LDS faith as a cult is always in question. Spreading lies is the only way they can get the attention they need and the only way a candidate like Obama can have a prayer to win in this election.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:20 p.m.

    Obama has had to deal with people attacking him somehow simultaneously as
    1. being a member of Rev. Wright's church
    2. being a muslim
    3. being an atheist

    who somehow gets attacked when he doesn't go to church and when he does go to church. The last person who wants to get in a religious-bashing argument with Romney is Obama who I'm sure is sick of that kind of garbage being thrown at him. Obama could probably sympathize with Romney more than most politicians. Biden (a Catholic, another rather unrepresented group at the top, though Gingrich and Santorum are both Catholic) has already said that it was outrageous for anyone to suggest that Romney shouldn't be President because of his religion.

  • Arizona Reader Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:15 p.m.

    Just FYI, I did just read a pretty good article about us on USAToday.com and beside a few small things, I thought it was pretty accurate. Take a look...

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:11 p.m.

    It's the Chicago way, and right out of the community organizer's handbook- Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals." Although the slime will never seem to come from the Obama campaign, or the Democrat party, there is no mystery as to the motivation or beneficiary of these scurrilous attacks.

    This is going to get worse, much worse, before the election.

    Just think of the media outrage that would be taking place if any of the slurs against Mormons were targeted instead at Muslims, or people of certain racial or ethnic backgrounds, or sexual persuasion.

    All this should resolve decent people to fight even harder to defeat the Democrats at every level, even the cuddly loveable Utah Democrats who refuse to call out their national colleagues on their behavior.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:09 p.m.

    I love your work with FAIR, Scott Gordon! Keep it up!

  • Johnson72 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 25, 2012 12:00 p.m.

    Right...