Comments about ‘'Anti-Mormon slime machine' kicks into gear’

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Published: Wednesday, Jan. 25 2012 11:54 a.m. MST

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Brahmabull
sandy, ut

Flashback - I don't understand. Are you saying that anybody that doesn't believe in mormonism is influenced by the devil?? That doesn't even make sense. People have a right to disagree with mormonism and not be labeled as being of the devil. I assume that since you are mormon that you are anti-catholic, anti-baptist, etc. right? So since 99.9 percent of the world population is not mormon would you consider them all anti-mormon? I am just trying to figure out how you claim that anybody who doesn't believe in mormonism is of the devil. Please explain.

A voice of Reason
Salt Lake City, UT

Hank Pym,

Thank you for your comment. I will offer a reasoned response.

First, contradictions have nothing to do with what I'm arguing. Second, the idea that something has been discredited is subjective. Credit is given, not inherent; thereby making this point irrelevant as well.

-------

However, I believe you were trying to argue that "just because someone 'attempts to' discredit or contend with a claim does not make the claim any more or less valid.

By all means, I agree with this principle. I didn't argue that opposition proves anything. My argument is that by examining the opposition referenced as being recorded in the Book of Mormon in the past and examining the opposition the LDS Church often faces today- that it would only stand as evidence to support the truthfulness of the claims in the Book of Mormon and the claim that it is the true and restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

If a book prophesies of how people will someday fight the LDS Church, and those come true. This is evidence to support that the book is an accurate record.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

Oh please. I love DN subscibers comment that "It's the Chicago way, and right out of the community organizer's handbook- Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."

Really? Really?

And the stuff about Obama, his family, his supposed religion, his nationality, what "radical" play book did that come from. I swear, some people are so deep into believing their own stuff, they wouldn't recognize a balanced arguement if it smacked them in the face - twice. Sure the little catch phrase obviously stolen from some radio shock jock sounds cute, but it so defies truth is could almost be laughable.

We are seeig the very same tactics used Repubican on Republican. Just ask Herman Cain, Newt, or Romney. Pretending that hard ball (and dishonest) politics is somehow the sole providence of Chicago style politics defies the nasty comments made about Utah's own Bennett, and now Hatch, from his fellow Utahns.

But if making such rediculas comments gets the angry crowd to press the Recommend button, and thereby make themselves feel superior to another group of people, have at it.

lds4gaymarriage
Salt Lake City, UT

sharrona
Brigham Young said some things that has many today gasping at what was said.
Brigham Young, I never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call it Scripture, Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon and it is a good as Scripture as they deserve. (JoD v 13 p. 95 also see v. 13. P 264)

LDS4
All that shows is that BY was human and guilty of pride. Joseph Fielding Smith and Harold B. Lee both said that if they say anything contrary to scripture, that scripture prevails and their words are to be rejected. The prophets have also stated that anything said that isn't supported by scripture is an opinion, no matter who gives it.

For any statement to become accepted as binding upon the Church, it must be confirmed by the Church via Common Consent.

To make the claim that something BY said is official LDS teaching because of his quote above is specious. Without Common Consent, no statements, including the Proclamation on the Family and even revelations, are official teachings or binding upon the membership. Bottom Line.

ciaobello
Concord, CA

The problem is always someone outside looking in and claiming expertise. If anyone suffered murderous mobocracy it was the early Latter-day Saints, including some of the "best blood of the century" Joseph Smith Jr. The Smiths lost two sons to martyrdom that terrible day and a third son Samuel within weeks. I've been a member 50 years. People just do not understand the gospel and they easily can by taking the missionary lessons and deciding for themselves.

Jiggle
Clearfield, UT

Religion doesn't have to play a role - or at least not to this extent. It mucks up the system. As a group, in the public discourse, religions tend to claim that some inherent moral superiority derives from having faith itself, and that moral superiority should supposedly prevent even atheists from publicly criticizing the quality of factual evidence for religions, and from criticizing the moral value of the personal choice to place the foundation of one's moral beliefs on faith. That obviously has the result of barring us from the most effective means of preventing religious extremism from ever taking hold: criticizing the legitimacy of religious faith itself. Religion is a perfectly legitimate, Constitutionally protected lifestyle choice, but it is not a valid basis for governing everybody. The Establishment Clause prohibits favoritism to any establishment of religion, which means to any particular faith. That leaves us with a secular political society even if this is a majority-Christian nation; the purpose of the Constitution is to prevent tyranny by the majority. Religion should be left out of politics and the REAL issues should be the focus of politics.....not a candidates religion or the lack thereof.

RedWings
CLEARFIELD, UT

Compare the statements of Brigham Young and other Church leaders of his day about blacks to those being made by elected officals of the US government. These types of comments were common in those days, and not specific to the LDS Church.

Also, our country was racist up to and past 1978. Many organizations did not allow black membership well after 1978. Why is the Church held to such a different standard?

As far as the "slime machine" - If Romney gets the nomination, there will be ads attacking his faith, but not by Obama. The Super PACs will do it. And Romney-supporting Super PACs will attack Obama on anything and everything they can. Campaigns have become an ugly, terrible thing to see. Integrity is gone. It is sad that good people from both parties stay out of politics because of the envrionment. Deep down I believe that both Romney and Obama are good men who love their country and want to help make it better. The political process just demonizes everyone and turns them into caricatures....Sad really....

sharrona
layton, UT

@LDS4. The prophets have also stated that anything said that isn't supported by scripture is an opinion, no matter who gives it. Very confusing which is truth?

That seer his name shall be called Joseph(Smith), and it shall be after the name of his father. ( Genesis 50:33 JST)? JS, prophecy about himself.

Joseph Smith Jr., Joseph son of Jacob, prophesied of the future mission of the Prophet JS twenty-four hundred years before the LDS prophet was born(50:33 JST ).(Religious truth defined by Joseph Fielding Smith, p.256-257)confirmed.
Marion G Romney saidyears ago when I was a bishop(Heber J.)Grant talk to our war. After the meeting I drove him homeStanding by me ,he put his arm over my shoulder and said: My boy, you always keep your eye on the president of the Church, and if he tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, But you dont worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray. (Conference report Oct,1960 P.78)OK.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Redwings
"Compare the statements of Brigham Young and other Church leaders of his day about blacks to those being made by elected officals of the US government. These types of comments were common in those days, and not specific to the LDS Church.

Also, our country was racist up to and past 1978. Many organizations did not allow black membership well after 1978. Why is the Church held to such a different standard?"

The church claims to have the sole authority of receiving direct revelation from God and it is peculiar that the world (by which I mean the nation which was protesting BYU over the church's racial policies) would be leading the church rather than the church leading the nation in terms of being ahead of the game for things like racial equality.

Iron Rod
Salt Lake City, UT

Ok Where do the anti mormon attacks come from?

I find it hard to believe that these attacks on Romney and the church come from Democrats!

What reason would they have of wasting money on it?

The attacks are coming from right wing Republicans. Most likely Evangelicals.

LDS faithful ought to wise up and recognize who their friends are and who dis like them.

At this point in time it is pretty clear to me.

Munk
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Oh yes those crazy insane wacky Mormons. Crazy! They tithe the church and wear garments.. .and other odd stuff... and they *gasp* used to be polygamists.

We can toss a few other things in there.. .Mountain Meadows... etc etc...

Soooo.. let us compare to other religions shall we? I think people are going to find that the LDS faith is actually one of the least strange and much more balanced.

I mean.. my ward is full of loonies..

Bill in Nebraska
Maryville, MO

Sharrona and alt134: You bring up points but none of the Presidents of the Church has led it astray. You may questions why they do what they do.

The thing is that if you look at the way the country is led and you see how things really are you both would understand that nothing of the Church was actually racist. The Journal of Discourses are not and I repeat not official Church teachings. Many of these discourses are cited by second and third hand reports. This means that what was said in the discourses may not have actually been said or if so the entire context is missed. Using this to defend your position is exactly that pointless. They are not actual quotes of the individual.

I have reasoned with myself and I have asked this question: Could the Church have grown as it did by allowing blacks to hold the priesthood prior to 1978? The answer to that question is a resounding NO. We believe in constant revelation and the Lord's time for reproving or changing PRACTICES are dependent upon him not man. As Joseph Smith once said, "If the Lord commands it, do it".

lds4gaymarriage
Salt Lake City, UT

sharrona
Marion G Romney saidyears ago when I was a bishop(Heber J.)Grant talk to our war. After the meeting I drove him homeStanding by me ,he put his arm over my shoulder and said: My boy, you always keep your eye on the president of the Church, and if he tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, But you dont worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray. (Conference report Oct,1960 P.78)OK.

LDS4
Again, It doesn't matter what MGR, HJG or whoever said. If it's not sustained via Common Consent, it's just opinion. Martin Luther wanted the book of James removed from the Bible, but that isn't official Lutheran doctrine is it?

Tyler Ray
Taylorsville, UT

Funny when people call mormons racist when Joseph Smith basically adopted two slaves where they lived completely free in the smith house as family and Joseph Smith sold one of his own horses to buy the freedom of a slave. Yeah thats completely racist!

Pagan
Salt Lake City, UT

Some LDS members in the past were racist.

As, I'm sure majority of American's in the past who used human trafficking for slave markets.

This, is established. It is not a 'smear' campaign to acknowledge we HAD self-evident racism in America's, and her citizens', in the past.

To claim it was somehow 'justified' because OTHER people did it?

Not acceptable.

To move FOWARD, and DENOUNCE discrimination in all it's forms?

Is the only way to shake, such images off the LDS, or anyone else for that matter.

Condeming discrimination, for whatever, reason, is the only way to set the example we all wish. That people will treat us fairly.

To go BACK to such tactics..?

To attempt to find 'reason' that 'X' minority 'should' do it and 'X' minority should not...?

**'Dr. Laura's N-Word Rant: Radio Host Apologizes For Offensive Language' - Danny Shea - Huffington Post - 08/12/10

'Dr. Laura Schlessinger has apologized after a shocking rant on her radio show this week during which she said the n-word 11 times over the course of five minutes.' - article

Serves no purpose.

And 'no'...

I don't call my Mormon friends names or discriminate against them!

sharrona
layton, UT

@LDS4: Martin Luther wanted the book of James removed from the Bible, but that isn't official Lutheran doctrine is it?

St. James Epistle is really an epistle of straw compared to [St. Paul's letters], for it lacks this evangelical character" Deutsche Bibel 6 as quoted in P988. Luther.
Luther however, never declared James or any other New Testament book non-canonical. He quotes from James occasionally. Man is justified by faith alone, but not by faith that is alone. Luthers comment on James before his death .( James 2:14-26).

Different category, Martin Luther never claimed to be a prophet or revelation;
God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and he will make me be a god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be a mouth for me; and if you dont like, you must lump it.(DHC v. 6 pp 319,320.)

ElsieM7
VALLEY VILLAGE, CA

I'm an Obama supporter and I promise never to slime your church. Because it's my church too. :)

John20000
Cedar Hills, UT

The LDS church sends 19 year-olds with a few weeks training to publicly represent the church world-wide. If they are willing to do that, I doubt they are worried about some political ads that make fun of their beliefs.

lds4gaymarriage
Salt Lake City, UT

sharrona
Marion G Romney saidyears ago when I was a bishop(Heber J.)Grant talk to our war. After the meeting I drove him homeStanding by me ,he put his arm over my shoulder and said: My boy, you always keep your eye on the president of the Church, and if he tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, But you dont worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray. (Conference report Oct,1960 P.78)OK.

LDS4
Again, It doesn't matter what MGR, HJG or whoever said. If it's not sustained via Common Consent, it's just opinion. Martin Luther wanted the book of James removed from the Bible, but that isn't official Lutheran doctrine is it?

Moderation including Moderation
PLEASANTON, CA

Shouldnt we all seek a world without prejudice and bigotry. The constitution protects and allows for this freedom. These religious leaders need to keep this mind. Its a lesson all including those who are LDS should well remember.

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