Comments about ‘'Anti-Mormon slime machine' kicks into gear’

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Published: Wednesday, Jan. 25 2012 11:54 a.m. MST

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John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

Of my last 10 friends to get married, one was a white lady who married a black man in the Detroit Temple. I could also point out that the opening prayer at the 2008 Republican National Convention was given by a black Mormon man with a white wife. I could list several more cases of this, from bishops in Eagle Mountain to mission presidents in Brazil. All the Haitian Mormon women I have known had white husbands. OK, that is a sample of two, but still.

I would reccomend people get Perkins and Gray's "Blacks in the Scriptures" DVDs. I would agree that many members of the Church lack sensitivity on issues related to "race" (even if I agree with Perkins that race is a false notion) and that we will not make true progress in converting large numbers of African Americans and retaining them in the Church until we learn how to speak about issues related to the priesthood policy that the Lord allowed to be in place with sensitivity.

Jeffery R. Holland and Gordon B. Hinckley among others have made key comments on this, but we need to face the issue head on.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

Tornogal,
The easy answer to your question is there was no written basis.

As I said elsewhere, we do not know why the Lord allowed the policy. We do not even know exactly how the policy came into being.

That said, LDS doctrine is based on things far beyond the Book of Mormon. There is a passage in the Book of Abraham that I once thought related to this issue, and I was not born until 1980, so I should not have had an excuse. However that passage really is unclear on the matter. In fact Darius Gray argues that the Mormon views on this issue were largely based on existing protestant interpretations of the Bible. It was not Mormons who invented the Ham to the blacks connection idea. The Book of Abraham no more supports this than Genesis. In fact the Book of Abraham tells of three righteous women who were descendants of Ham and slain because they served the true God.

However there is no evidence in scripture to suppose that descendants of Ham are black. In fact there is strong evidence that there are multiple Jewish groups scattered through Africa.

Serenity
Manti, UT

Cult: a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false, and directed by a charismatic, authoritarian leader.

The definition of cult could refer to any religion at all depending on the ideas of different individuals. Some fit this definition a lot more than the LDS Church yet we are tagged with it.

Why don't other religious groups use that name against each other? None believe the doctrines of the other. Why is the LDS Church the only one that ignorant "evangelists" insist on slandering with the use of that word? Is it because we don't fight back?

Of all the religions in the world, I chose the LDS religion with a full knowledge of many other religions. It is pure religion and it is of God. People may not be perfect, not even Joseph Smith, but the truthfulness of the LDS doctrine shines through the darkness of imperfection because it is authored and authorized by the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Capella
Bakersfield, CA

Bill in Nebraska, thank you for making my point.

No one cares about opinions at the end of the day. The truth will win out, God will be vindicated and there is a Judgment Day coming.

Go read your own history and stop spinning. You make honest Mormons blush.

Max
Charlotte, NC

With these pastors spewing so much non-sense it is no wonder that Evangelicals have a problem with the LDS. They just make it up out of thin air and the flock swallows it whole. What is more amazing is that reporters will report this stuff with no interest in checking to see if it is true. Wouldn't it occur to any responsible reporter that what these vitriolic ministers have to say may not be accurate? I mean, death squads??? REALLY?

JoeBlow
Miami Area, Fl

"I don't fully understand why blacks were not allowed the priesthood and honestly it has no affect at all on me or who I am."

It has no effect on you at all? Could it be that you are not black?

The church leaders were just following the prejudice of the day. Not a big deal for men to make that mistake.

It is easy for the LDS to conclude that "god had a reason for it back then".
How else can you look at it?

But, for people that are supposed to be guided by god, one would think they would have been ahead of the curve.

Did god have a reason, or make a mistake, or was he not consulted at all?

Hmmm.

Carrick
Layton, 84041

Unfortunately there have been and will continue to be attacks from both sides of the political spectrum.

The Mormon Quest for the Presidency: From Joseph Smith to Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman (2011) discusses the anti-mormon rhetorique that has accompanied the presidential campaigns of Romney and other Mormons.

m.g. scott
LAYTON, UT

I'm a Romney supporter first, a Gingrich supporter second. I do feel bad that it is from the Republican side that the attacks against the Mormons has begun. If the Democrats truly want me to look their way, then maybe if Romney gets the nomination, the attacks will stop. The best thing the Democrats and Obama could do for the country and themselves is see to it that the debate about who becomes President does not include arguments about the Mormons and Rev. Wright. I'am not holding my breath on that, but I'd be truly impressed if the Democrat Party were to have more class than the Republican Pastors that are engaging in this stuff.

m.g. scott
LAYTON, UT

@CoraSmith

Do you understand that Obama has borrowed about 5 TRILLION dollars in tha last 3 years to "help you". Do you really think that is a workable good public policy? Bob Beckle on Fox News does. I don't. My logic tells me that eventually the bill for 15 plus trillion dollars will come due and we won't be able to pay it without massive inflation, i.e. printing of money. This train is headed in the wrong direction, and if it does not get turned around soon, the cliff will come and we will go over it as a nation.

Rynn
Las Vegas, NV

This is just like sports rivalry. Only instead of athletic teams battling for the title of Number 1, it's religions battling for the title of Number 1.

Dark Reaver
SOUTH JORDAN, UT

Cult:
"The word originally denoted a system of ritual practices. The word was first used in the early 17th century denoting homage paid to a divinity and derived from the French culte or Latin cultus, âworshipâ, from cult-, âinhabited, cultivated, worshipped,â from the verb colere, 'care, cultivation'"

All religions are "Cults", people need to get over it.

Hank Pym
SLC, UT

per A voice of Reason 1:05 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012

Just because something is contradicted or discredited doesn't mean its really true. That type of "logic" is the very antithesis of reason.

per Ernest T. Bass 7:38 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012

Fixed noise is worse than MSNBC?

skeptic
Phoenix, AZ

%m.g.scott, Most people will probably agree with you that spending and size of government needs to be reduced; but, the problem seems to be no one can agree to give up some of their spending, they just want others to give up theirs. So what should be reduced or eliminated. Who should pay a fair share and who should be excluded. It is like the childrens story: The little mice know they need protection and warning from the big fat cat, but who is going to put the bell on the cat. Now we have to decide by vote which cat we choose to have scurrying after us to chew us up.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: JPL,of Michigan . While it is at one level a nice quote, to use it as a reference to people of African descent is to mis-read the Book of Mormon as a modern text.
(Genesis 7:10 JST), And there was a blackness came upon all the children of Cainan, that they were despised among all people. And (Genesis 7:22 JST) ,..all the seed of Adam save it were the seed of Cain; for the seed of Cain were black and had not a place among them.

RE: Bill in Nebraska, Brigham Young said some things that has many today gasping at what was said.
Brigham Young, I never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call it Scripture, Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon and it is a good as Scripture as they deserve. (JoD v 13 p. 95 also see v. 13. P 264)

t702
Las Vegas, NV

"Anti-Mormon slime machine' kicks into gear"
Compared to what the Pioneers faced in 1830s, this is a day to celebrate. Like it or not Mitt will be the next president of the great US of A.

Flashback
Kearns, UT

I could care less what the anti-Mo forces think. They are duped by Satan.

When I was on my mission in Texas, it was a badge of honor for some people to go to the church where the pastor lived in the biggest house and drove the biggest Caddie. Mostly Southern Baptists.

My bishop lives in a house the size of mine (about 1100 square feet up and about 900 down), he drives a mini van and has a job that he works at along with being bishop. I wear that as a badge of honor.

Isn't Priestcraft a wonderful thing, especially in the South?

m.g. scott
LAYTON, UT

@skeptic

Obama seems very ready to cut huge numbers of dollars and people out of the military budget. If he were to add that type of cutting to a lot more of goverment spending, we may have something.

Or, maybe just cut the new government spending that Obama has added in 3 years with almost 5 trillion dollars of added debt. Either way there is a lot of room for cutting, if a President is willing to put a lot of government workers, military and civilian, out of work. What we need is a President who is willing to take the heat for causing more unemployment in the short term, in exchange for long term financial responsibility, and ultimately a better private sector economy. I'm not saying Romney or Gingrich are those guys, but I KNOW Obama isn't.

Kami
Bountiful, Utah

Flashback | 9:36 a.m. Jan. 26, 2012
Kearns, UT
"When I was on my mission in Texas, it was a badge of honor for some people to go to the church where the pastor lived in the biggest house and drove the biggest Caddie. Mostly Southern Baptists.
My bishop lives in a house the size of mine (about 1100 square feet up and about 900 down), he drives a mini van and has a job that he works at along with being bishop. I wear that as a badge of honor."

And my Bishop now lives in the largest house in the ward. His prior 3,400 square foot home in the neighborhood was not large enough for his tastes, so he moved up and he moved up AFTER 3 out of 5 of his children had moved away. So I'd be careful if I were you blasting the apparent "Keep up with the Joneses" mentality you have seen in other religions -- it is alive and well in the Mormon church as well.

IMAN
Marlborough, MA

This article has the appearance of a(very)thinly veiled PR tactic from the LDS church's PR machine. De-humanize your potential opponent before reasoned debates and discussions even begin. Try and build a punlic perception of your opponent and frame it in a way that is favorable to the candidate you support. It's really not that clever and I believe most reasonable people will see right through this. This type of PR is more likely to hurt rather than help Romney. IMVHO he has so many flaws as a candidate that his religion is the least of his worries.

P.S. I don't see and don't believe most people see his religion as a being flaw.

Canuk
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

williary | 2:27 p.m. Jan. 25, 2012
Kearns, UT

Funny when he was sworn in, he insisted that they use his middle name.

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