Baptism is not merely a work that I do - baptism is a work that is performed for
me. I am baptised by someone else. They lift me up out of the water - surely
that symbolises Christ's work? He lifts me up. Even repentance is not a work I
do alone. It is only possible because of the atonement. It is a partnership ..
or better yet, a relationship. Again, faith is not a purely human work - I can
only have faith in Christ because Christ is real and I know him. So I see grace
interlaced into all the works of the gospel - we keep the commandments in the
full sense by keeping the spirit. Hence the need to have the GIFT of the Holy
Ghost, i.e., the spirit as a constant companion. I will never ever walk the
straight and narrow path alone. The existence of the path is proof of grace.
Sharrona,One of the supernal revelations in the Book of Mormon is
that Christ had NEED to be baptised. 2 Nephi 31:5. We have an even greater need.
The Book of Mormon further teaches that the reason little children have no need
for baptism is because they have no need for repentance and because they are
alive in Christ (Moroni 8:11, 20, 22-23). So if you and I want to go where
Christ and all little children who die go we must live as the scriptures teach:
we must repent and be baptized, and humble [our] selves as little children, and
they shall all be saved with little children. (Moroni 8:10). The spirit can and
does fall upon people prior to baptism but baptism is the gate to the highest
blessings of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is what Christ himself teaches in
the Book of Mormon. BTW, what makes you think the people that King Benjamin
spoke too were not baptised? Being born again (to enter not merely see) comes by
the spirit of God through ordinances!
@raybies"The cross is but a piece of the Atonement of Christ.
Fixating upon it places Christ in a constant death-thraul that apostate
religions have used to bludgeon believers with fear, guilt and shame for
ages."Apostate religions? Gee, I hope you don't mind other
churches attacking the LDS church, lest you be a hypocrite.
IrishLDS ,The Book of Mormon teaches the need for baptism.and they
rose and came forth out of the water, being filled with the Spirit(Mosiah
8:14),teaches that the Spirit falls upon men after baptism without any
ordinances.And it came to pass that they had spoken these words the Spirit
of the Lord came upon them ,and they were filled with joy, having received a
remission of sin, and having peace of conscience, because of the exceeding faith
which they had in Jesus Christ. (Mosiah 4:3). Not only did the Spirit fall upon
them before any ordinances had been applied (including Baptism)but they also
receive the remission of their sins. Also several more.he saved us,
not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved
us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5
The Book of Mormon further teaches that one comes to the cross, meaning comes to
Christ, in the full sense only by coming though covenant. That is why Christ
invites us to be baptised (See 3 Nephi 11 & 27) and why he has restored the
priesthood authority necessary to perform such baptisms (See Doctrine and
Covenants 13 & 20). Again, the Book of Mormon teaches the need for baptism
better than any other book on the face of the earth and ties it beautifully to
the doctrine of Christ (See 2 Nephi 31). Maybe that is why Christ himself
connects believing in the Book of Mormon and coming into the covenant in this
language:Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not
believe in my words, who am Jesus Chest, which the Father shall cause him to
bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring
them forth unto theGentiles, ... they shall be cut off from among my
people who are of the covenant. (3 Nephi 21:11)I gladly come to the
cross - just as gladly as I come to the waters of baptism!
Raybeis 7:121 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness
to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of
God.Hardly the "fixation on the death thrual" (sic)you
The cross is but a piece of the Atonement of Christ. Fixating upon it places
Christ in a constant death-thraul that apostate religions have used to bludgeon
believers with fear, guilt and shame for ages. It is time to focus on the empty
tomb as well--or upon a grove of trees where a young man had the courage to ask
God and upon a pillar of light. Or in the return of divine messengers bearing
the Priesthood of God--the authority to act in righteousness and power for God
in this day and age--a restoration of loving, living prophets, seers and
revelators. Elder Packer's words are very appreciated and precious
in our age. I attended the fireside with one of my children who is Seminary age.
Specifically his comments on gender, morality and agency, which are subjects of
confusion to most growing adolescents in our society. LDS teens are fortunate to
have the opportunities provided by the restored Gospel to learn the Scriptures.
It's a blessing to have such a spiritual boost every morning. It was also cool
to learn that Pres. Eyring's mom was in the first seminary class.
Sharrona: Thanks for the additional insights.
To "Montana Mormon":Thank You for getting back quickly. I
will find a copy of the "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph
Smith".Thanks Again. Lord Bless.
The Joseph Smith quote comes from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,page
RE: David in CA You give a quote from Joseph Smith. It's a Great Quote Where can
that quote be found? the gospel(KJV)=(Evangelical, G. 2098) which I
preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which
also ye are SAVED if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have
believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also
received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And
that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the
scriptures: (1 Cor 15:1-4).RE: Montana Mormon,.. I would also insert
"Atonement" in with your list of what "the whole Gospel" is.
That is exactly what I believe as a practicing member of The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints, and as someone who has read the N. T. from cover to
cover many dozens of times.The Atonement from(13c
Latin)actually(Katallage,G. 2643,= reconciliation). Salvation is not universal
but based on the belief of the individual (Romans 1:16; Heb 9:28;Eph 2:8-9)
Directed @ "Montana Mormon" @ 8:44 AM:You give a quote
from Joseph Smith. It's a Great Quote.Where can that quote be found? Is
it in the "School of the Prophets"?Is it in the "History of
the Church"? The "Journal of Discourses" is mostlyquotes
from Brigham Young, but maybe it's there? The "Articles of Faith"come from the Wentworth Letter letter, I believe. Where does one findthe exact quote that you referenced?Anyone else besides Montana
Mormon could chime in too.Thanks in advance...
Re: Montana Mormon,I would also insert "Atonement" in with your list
of what "the whole Gospel" is). That is exactly what I believe as a
practicing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and as
someone who has read the N. T.from cover to cover many dozens of times.OK,The Atonement from(13c Latin)actually(Katallage,G.
2643,)=reconciliation. Salvation is not universal but based on the belief of
the individual (Romans 1:16; Heb 9:28;Eph 2:8-9)Paul said, the
gospel=(Evangelical, G. 2098) which I preached unto you, which also ye have
received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are SAVED if ye keep in memory
what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto
you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins
according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the
third day according to the scriptures: (1 Cor 15:1-4).A simple
plowboy can understand the euaggelion(Evangelical) it takes a priest to make it
difficult. Martin Luther.
@ 2funny. hate to burst your bubble you live in But over 14 million members of
the church of Jesus Christ Of latter-day Saints already have don what you just
said. we Embrace Christ we preach of Christ and we try to live as Christ lived
and we do not just draw to him with lip service. but desire to become Christ
like in our everyday lives. But thanks for the reminder of who it is that all
Mankind may receive eternal life though obeying his commandments and going forth
to sin no more. Now on a more on point note President packer was right on
target! I loved watching this broadcast with my sons.
Two of my favorite quotes from the fireside are these. From Elder Marion G.
Romney, "Don't just teach them so they understand. Teach them so they don't
misunderstand." From Brother Yates, to a young Brother Packer, "Learn
at the feet of the Apostles, and it will have a profound effect on you." We
all have that admonition.
2funny, you are too funny. glad you are qualified to tell an apostle what he
should have said.
Pres. Packer is one of the great noble ones in this dispensation. I've admired
him since I was a kid. He teaches the Gospel clearly, succinctly and in a manner
that one cannot misunderstand. God bless Pres. Boyd K. Packer!
The Book of Mormon teaches the doctrine of Christ better than any other book on
the face of the earth - Have a look at that book to find out what 'Mormons'
believe about Jesus Christ and his gospel. For example:Wherefore,
how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the
earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence
of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah,
who blayeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the
power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead,
being the first that should rise. 2 Nephi 2:8
I would also like to add this statement from Joseph Smith:"What
are the fundamental principles of your religion? "The
fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and
Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the
third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our
religion are only appendages to it. But in connection with these, we believe in
the gift of the Holy Ghost, the power of faith, the enjoyment of the spiritual
gifts according to the will of God, the restoration of the house of Israel, and
the final triumph of truth."
@2funny: You are exactly right (except I would also insert
"Atonement" in with your list of what "the whole Gospel"
is). That is exactly what I believe as a practicing member of The Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and as someone who has read the New Testament
from cover to cover many dozens of times. Just because President Packer did not
say your exact words in this particular talk does not mean he does not know and
believe that. Actually, in his talk, President Packer did remind us that we
need to "come unto Christ and be perfected in Him."
What he failed to tell you in the article, is before you can have the Holy
Spirit living in you, you must first come to the Cross. Jesus is the Way, the
Truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, except by Christ. You must first
believe the God sent His son to die for your sins. The whole Gospel is the
death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
President Packer is one of the greatest men of our day.
Amen and Amen!