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Readers' forum: We need Romney

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  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 24, 2012 2:14 p.m.

    'Just look at Obama's legacy.' - RedShirt | 8:44 a.m. Jan. 24, 2012

    How can something be a 'legacy'...

    BEFORE, it is over?

    What we CAN look at, is George W. Bush's Wall Street bail outs:

    **'Bush signs $700 billion bailout bill' - AP - Published by Denver Post - By Tom Raum - 10/03/08

    Or his auto bail outs:

    **'Bush signs $17.4 billion auto industry bailout package' - By Nelson Ireson - Motor Authority - 12/19/08

    The war in Iraq, based on the faulty claim of 'WMD's'

    Or the fact that Obama gave the order...

    to kill Osama Bin Laden.

    You know.

    ANOTHER thing Republican leadership did NOT accomplish.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 24, 2012 8:44 a.m.

    To "Kalindra | 8:28 p.m." I can, and have given pleanty of evidence in the past. I will give you just a sample of the evidence that is out there:

    Just look at Obama's legacy. He has set up the US to enter the socialist path on healthcare. He has the highest number of people on Food Stamps and other welfare programs. Obama has given handouts to his biggest supporter, such as Warren Buffett who will profit greatly from stoping the keystone pipeline. Obama pushed to get authority to indefinately detain US citizens.

    How much evidence is needed to convince liberals of your ilk that Obama and his policies are bad for the US?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 24, 2012 7:25 a.m.

    Heather - this statement sort of funny...

    "I believe Newt Gingrich and Rick Perry's attacks on Mitt Romney's years at Bain will backfire on them. They sound envious and desperate. It's really sad when Republicans adopt class warfare. "

    So a person who made 3 million plus attacking a person who made 21 million last year is "class warfare". That has to be the biggest stretch of a party talking point I have ever seen.

    The issue is not if it is ok for either to be making millions. Heck, there are people who got paid far more than Romney for doing something as simple as playing a sport. No, this is not about class warfare or envy.

    What this is about is how the tax law has been written with all kinds of little tools embedded that are there only to help a select few, those who have been perceived to have tweaked the system to their advantage. The Wall Street bailout is a huge example of how there are those who are too rich to fail, while middle American was getting tossed out of their homes.

    Envy - no.

    Balance - yes.

    Its about a level playing field instead of "envy".

  • mhewett BOULDER, CO
    Jan. 23, 2012 9:14 p.m.

    Curmudgeon if I was a multi millionaire I would setup my children so they could have the freedom to choose what they want to do with their lives whether it was be a doctor, a street sweeper or a gardener. I would not want them to have to worry about money. I would want to give them every opportunity I could as their parent to live a good secure life. What is wrong with that? I believe the scriptures would be ok with that, don't you?

    Why should Romney make public all of the charitable donations he makes? Shouldn't we do charitable work without the expectation of worldly praise and adulation? One of the greatest feelings is when you do something for someone in private and then you see the joy that it brings them, especially when they don't know where it came from. You don't have any proof that he does not donate his money to help people but you judge him as if he doesn't. Is that the American way? Maybe you just don't like him, fine, but if you judge a person, do it based on fact and not on biased, unsubstantiated opinion.

  • mhewett BOULDER, CO
    Jan. 23, 2012 8:57 p.m.

    To LDS liberal and all those who are so caught up in how much money Romney may have and what he does with it, you do realise Romney is a mormon don't you? If you don't, let me bring you up to speed.

    As a Mormon he pays at least 10% into tithing. If you don't know what tithing is used for, ask a missionary. As a Mormon he would also pay fast offering. Do you know what that is? It goes to things such as feeding the hungry and clothing the naked and paying the bills of the poor.

    Can anyone who attacks Romney on the grounds of what he does with his money do so with actual knowledge that he does not impart of his money to help other people? Find out if he is a temple member. If he is, he is a full tithe payer and does contribute a lot of his wealth to help others. Before anyone here attacks him on these grounds, come up with proof instead of your own heresay, hatred and bias. Otherwise you are not doing what the 13th article of faith says by being honest.

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 23, 2012 8:28 p.m.

    @redshirt

    So your justification is a bunch of banter and no facts to support your claims about Obama, Tell me again how you are different from LDs liberal? I am just not seeing it.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 23, 2012 7:32 p.m.

    Re: "Capitalism is NOT patriotism."

    Yeah, it is.

    And ALL leftist sap traps -- liberalism, populism, progressivism, euro-socialism, marxism, fascism, communism -- ALL derive their essence from the same elitist, sophomoric, neo-utopian, us-versus-them, freedom-killing philosophy.

    And ALL are decidedly anti-American.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2012 5:07 p.m.

    Too bad he is not conservative enough for Utah. Is it all about religion?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 23, 2012 12:11 p.m.

    To "Phranc | 10:14 p.m." I don't pretend to know what is in the heart or mind of Obama, I can see by his actions and words what he is. He is a socialist, and has very little regard for the population. He is arrogant, and cares more about being President and keeping his biggest contributors happy than he is about doing the right thing. That is based on his actions.

    To "LDS Liberal | 8:53 p.m." so basically, you don't know what Romney does with his money, but the fact that he has publically stated that yes he has an account in the Cayman island has you stirred up, and you can't let it go. Again, how do you know the intent of his heart? Do you know how much he gives or what he does with his money other than the few snippets that the media sends out?

    If it comes down to Obama and Newt, I would go with Newt only because his socialist plans are only taken in baby steps and not the giant leaps that Obama has taken. This would be in hopes that somebody better will come along at the next election.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2012 11:49 a.m.

    'Your comment demonstrates you ARE a socialist and you DON'T support capitalism.' - procuradorfiscal | 8:16 a.m. Jan. 23, 2012

    Capitalism is NOT patriotism.

    And corporate profit...is NOT, an American job.

    **Mitt Romney: Corporations are people...my friend - By Phillip Elliot - AP - Published by DSNews 08/11/11

    Are you a corporation...

    or a person?

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2012 11:25 a.m.

    'They sound envious and desperate. It's really sad when Republicans adopt class warfare.' - Article

    And, who supported the Bush tax cuts?

    Wall Street bail outs?

    **'Bush signs $700 billion bailout bill' - AP - Published by Denver Post - By Tom Raum - 10/03/08

    I think it was the Republican party when they had control of the Senate, House and Presidency (W. Bush) CREATED the Bush tax cuts.

    Result?

    **'Study: Rich get a lot richer, outpace middle class' - By Andrew Taylor - AP - 10/26/11

    'It finds that after-tax income for the top 1 percent of U.S. households almost tripled, up 275 percent, from 1979 to 2007.' - article

    Really think Romney is as 'poor' as people portray?

    **'Mitt Romneys wealth raises new questions' - By Jamshid Ghazi Askar - DSNews - 08/15/11
    "Romney owns between $250,000 and $500,000 in horses."

    **'Firm dissolves after giving pro-Romney PAC $1 million' - By Ken Thomas - AP - Published by DSNews - 08/04/11

    Not seven days later...

    **Mitt Romney: Corporations are people...my friend - By Phillip Elliot - AP - Published by DSNews 08/11/11

    Are YOU a corporation?

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 23, 2012 8:16 a.m.

    Re: "Now, I'm no Socialist and I do support Capitalism. . . . Seriously, just how rich does Romney need to be?"

    Your comment demonstrates you ARE a socialist and you DON'T support capitalism.

  • Phranc SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 10:14 p.m.

    @redshirt
    you claim LDS liberal is wrong but then slide into not being able to know another persons heart and mind. so if it is unknown then how do you proclaim LDS liberal is wrong, do you know Romney's heart and mind? You claim frequently to know what is in the hearts and minds of liberals and the president, do you posses some special powers?

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 9:13 p.m.

    RedShirt:

    I agree we should not be judge unrighteous judgment. But what evidence do you have that Romney is following the counsel in Jacob 2:19? It appears, from what is public, that regardless of Romney's motivation for acquiring wealth, he is hanging onto it, and not using it to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, liberate the captive, or administer relief to the sick and afflicted. His campaign rhetoric seems to support the notion that people like him who profit by the free enterprise system ought to be able to keep their wealth, while Jacob says he should be divesting it for charitable purposes.

    He would gain much credibility and sympathy if he would disclose his charitable intentions (assuming he has such), say by committing even half of his assets to fund a foundation, ala Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, or Jon Huntsman Sr. He'd still have plenty to live very comfortably. Instead, all we have heard is that he has set up a $100 million trust fund for his kids, so they never have to work. I can't find a scripture that supports that use of wealth.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 8:53 p.m.

    RedShirt | 8:29 p.m. Jan. 22, 2012
    USS Enterprise, UT
    To "LDS Liberal | 4:41 p.m." again, you are wrong. How do you know what is in the heart of Romney? Do you posses some super power that allows you to see into the heart and intentions of others?

    Lets remind you of Jacob 2:19 " 19 And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do goodto clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted."

    ==============

    You obviously didn't read the part about "INTENT"...

    Hiding your $$$Millions in secret undisclosed bank accounts in the Cayman Islands is hardly showing intent to "do good, clothe the naked and feed the hungry".

    ...a LIBERAL concept.

    BTW RedShirt, Are you planning on automatically voting Newt Gingrich for President just because he gets the "R"?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 8:29 p.m.

    To "LDS Liberal | 4:41 p.m." again, you are wrong. How do you know what is in the heart of Romney? Do you posses some super power that allows you to see into the heart and intentions of others?

    Lets remind you of Jacob 2:19 " 19 And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do goodto clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted."

    How do you know that Romney is not doing this with his wealth?

    How about you cast out the beam from your eye before you worry about a mote in Romney's eye.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 4:53 p.m.

    Romney would be a much better choice than any of the other nut jobs in the running. Worse yet is talk of Jeb Bush coming out of hiding to run. All we need. Another Bush -- [Shudder]

    Although I've been very disappointed in his lack of backbone in standing up against the Rethuglicans in Congress, my vote will go to Barack Obama.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 4:41 p.m.

    Look up the word "Babylon" in the Bible Dictionary - and there you will see Mitt Romney.

    Matt 6:24 No man can bserve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. [Mammon: Aramaic word for; wealth, greed]

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 1:32 p.m.

    RE: a bit of reality 10:19 a.m. Jan. 22, 2012

    "Romney's work at Bain can better be described as "creative destruction" (his word), rather than "job creation." His business activities both created and destroyed tons of jobs."

    If we are going for verbal obfuscation then I'll go w/ the Baltimore Ravens D being described as Organized Chaos.

  • shaun_ SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 10:43 a.m.

    All elections are about power. Who do you want to have the power? A guy who wants to decrease capital gains to zero percent so he doesn't have pay any income taxes?

    The argument that the rich provide jobs is moot. Everyone provides something to this economy. Does a Doctor deserve preferred tax treatment because he saves lives? Does an linemen electrician deserve a better tax rate than a waiter because his expertise helps keep the electrical grid running?

    People talk about class warfare coming from the poor and middle class but powerful wealthy people created it by giving themselves preferential tax treatment compared to everyone else.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 10:26 a.m.

    No, I'm pretty good without romney.

  • a bit of reality Shawnee Mission, KS
    Jan. 22, 2012 10:19 a.m.

    Romney's work at Bain can better be described as "creative destruction" (his word), rather than "job creation." His business activities both created and destroyed tons of jobs.

    When you count the jobs that he destroyed either directly or indirectly, the question is wide open whether he created more jobs than he destroyed.

    What the U.S. has seen over the last few decades is the rich getting *really* rich, and the middle class shrinking. I'm sure Romney knows what he'd like the government to do so that venture capitalists can make even more money, but that doesn't mean his policies would help the middle class.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 10:03 a.m.

    Capitalism is sort of like a medicine. We absolutely need it's main property by would rather not have the side effects.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 10:03 a.m.

    America needs Romney just as much as we need another flu epidemic.

    It's pretty obvious that right wing southerns don't want Romney. Just look at what happened in South Carolina!

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 9:53 a.m.

    Business and the associated operating systems, such as capitalism, exist because society, people in groups, need them. It is the society that provides the opportunity, the reason, and the rewards of operation a business.

    Business is owned by society. Society, through its agent, government, has the right, the power and the authority to control and define the service needed from business.

    Businessmen may own all the assets of a business operation, such as buildings, land, and many other tangible and intangible assets, but they dont own the business.

    Good government, like good business, exists to serve the society of people governed. When government is taken over by businessmen, it does not serve the interests of the society of people. Sort of like when the horse takes the bit in his teeth and takes the wagon and its driver where the horse wants to go.

    Business experience and a successful career in business does not mean that a person will be good at government. The two are different.

    Its sort of like thinking a great baseball player will make a great football player. While the traits may be similar, the mindset may be very different.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 9:15 a.m.

    The southern core Fox Republicans do not think share these views.

  • goatesnotes Kamas, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 8:15 a.m.

    How ironic is it that SC Christian evangelicals voted for the confessed serial adulterer, squashing the other three moral marriage candidates like little bugs, all because of a couple of rants in a debate directed at the national media covering the race?

    If that vote is emblematic of the values of the people of SC, then what does it say about their values? Gingrich managed to artfully avoid the character question in SC, but it will come up again and again and again before November, emotive and angry rants to divert attention notwithstanding.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 7:49 a.m.

    Your underlying assumption is false. We don't need a new President until 2016. Besides, it seems pretty clear that the voters don't really want Romney. And faced with having to make a decision on an issue he knew was coming this past week, Romney failed. He is out of his element and would be as well in Washington.

  • UTAH Bill Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 6:57 a.m.

    Wow - what an incredible spin on Romney's Bain work. He and his executives focused on one thing, how much money they could make. They laid people off in the companies they raided and then reduced the wages and benefits of the survivors. And, they all walked away with millions of dollars. Now, I'm no Socialist and I do support Capitalism. But, guys like Romney represent the worst part of it. For, it's all about how much money he can make and to heck with the other guy. Seriously, just how rich does Romney need to be?

  • Baron Scarpia Logan, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 6:23 a.m.

    Mittâs capitalist skills create a paradox for the GOP.

    On the one hand, his fixing dying businesses by laying off employees, reallocating funds from obsolete parts of the business into new growing ventures, is great for a top-down private sector executive.

    On the other hand, if you employ Mittâs capitalist skills in a government role, and the GOP will accuse you of "overreaching" -- or worse, of being a socialist!

    Indeed, Mitt has criticized Obama for re-structuring/investing into the auto industry to save it -- not unlike what Mitt did in the private sector. Mitt says he would have allowed the auto industry to collapse... but I believe as president, Mitt would do exactly what Obama did given his savvy business instincts and desire to create jobs and leverage assets.

    Alas, as a Republican, his party will only allow him the futile "tools" of tax and budget cuts and not his real savvy skills of business re-design and smart investments that has made him millions in the private sector.

    In short, Mitt's got the capitalist skills to revamp America's outmoded industries of autos, energy, manufacturing, etc. -- but philosophically, he may not be able to use them as President.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 22, 2012 1:20 a.m.

    "Most Americans love and appreciate the free-market system. Bain is a company where private investors take risks with companies and receive a return on their investment."

    The author does not understand how private equity works. The private equity firm puts up a small amount of its own capital and borrows the rest to buy a company. But the debt does not go on the books of the private equity firm, it goes on the books of the acquired company.

    This is the reason many companies go broke after being acquired in a private equity deal, they can't service the debt. It is also the reason most private equity firms make money no matter what happens to the acquired company, they never put much of their own money at risk to begin with.

    The letter mentions "Sealy", the mattress company, google it to see how private equity wrecked a very old and profitable company.