If the churches cared at all for those in this country Illegally, then they
would buy them a bus ticket & encourage them to Leave...Anything else is
aiding & abetting aka enabling their Many CRIMES...!!!--when your teenager
gets off track & mixed up in drugs, wrong friends whatever do you Score
drugs for them???--NO, you must strengthen your resolve & administer a
little Tough Love...IF you enable (as the Churches Are doing), then you just
exacerbate the problem & prevent a Solution from happening...These churches
have chosen to "don the blinders" And completely Ignore the Crimes
committed by these Illegal invaders...they Are STEALING from America & her
People, MANY of which sit in the same pews on Sunday...WHERE is the Churches
compassion For Them...???!!!
America has allowed in more than 1 Million legal immigrants per year since the
1980s. That is more than all other nations combined! No one can
claim that our immigration policy is broken, unless you feel that that number is
too large, which it is.We should not only be sending back illegal
immigrants, but we should be cutting the number allowed to come here legally as
well... until we can afford to fix our system and get things under control.Right now we are headed for a serious disaster of monumental
proportions... with our federal government totally out of control and our debt
and unfunded obligations burdening the next couple of generations with
"$120 Trillion!"There is almost no way we can recover from
that without a total collapse first.
@marcamusThe US has a law on the books to prevent this already. At 18 the
woman is suppose to return home and apply for a student visa or residency. (6
month window). These children turned adults are moved to the front of the line.
If they don't, they are just as illegal as their their parents. The
10 year penalty for being here for one year illegally, (3 years for 6 months)is
a deterrent for illegal immigration. It's difficult for most people to rectify
their situation, when they have broke the law. I have relatives that
are here legally from Mexico. I see the much different life they lead compared
to those here illegally. It's to bad the pro-illegal people, media, churches,
some politicians can't walk in the footsteps of those here legally and start
promoting legal immigration.
I can't blame many of the illegals for wanting to come here especially when it
is so easy to do so. Many if not most are illiterate even in their own language.
They are ignorant. They really are. I know because I used to employ hundreds of
them. I'm not saying they are unintelligent but they are ignorant and
disrespectful because of their ignorance. It is easy to sneak into the
country.It is easy for them to get work... Shouldn't we be upset with
those who hire them? Hello!!!We should be infuriated with those that hire
the illegals!!!Those who have compassion should help them, feed
them, cloth them and give them a care package for their trip home with a
promise that they will continue to get help if they care about them. Then the
should go and help them help themselves.If you really want to help them,
go their and teach them how to fish not bring them here and give them fish.
A true scenario. Policeman falls in love and marries a girl. She came here
when she was two with her parents. Turns out she does not have a legal right to
be here. She is currently illegal. They want to fix the situation. The only
way under current law is for her to go home for ten years. So, what to do?The policeman described how he was very much anti-illegal immigration
until it happened to him and saw how utterly impossible it is for people of most
nations to rectify their situations. I see this time and again. Until you walk
a mile in someone's shoes, please do not judge as if you know exactly what their
I have read alot of the post and can't agree with some. I believe that the law
is the law and needs to be follow, until they change the law or it makes it's
way through the justice system. I myself don't care if it breaks families up,
they knew when they got married that teir spouse was here illegally and chose to
break the laws of this nation. The immigration system needs to be changed, but
until that happen I must be this way. Some of your post say it's wrong to deine
them food , rides and or shelter, but I say deport them back to were they came
from and make them enter this country legally. There are alot of people waiting
to enter this country, and they must wait. They should be the ones to get the
frist shot at entering this country and not the ones who broke the laws and
enter this country illegally. I defend this country for over 30 years in the
miltary as a reseverist and worked Law Enforcement for over 28 years and now I
am retired from both and believe what I believe.
@NeilT:"Last year he (farmer) decided to offer 50 of those jobs
to locals. Big mistake. He couldn't find 50 locals and those few he found were
incapable of doing the work. They didn't have the stamina to work an 8 our
shift."That's because they've grown soft on government
handouts. Stop the handouts and they will have to work... or starve.@awsomeron:"I realize this is mostly about Mexicans but I
don't want the Race Factor to be an issue."The race factor is
fast becoming an issue. We have mostly immigrants (legal/illegal) from Mexico
and other Spanish speaking nations. It's projected that within a few years
Hispanics will be the majority and the WASP will become a minority race. Then
our language will change from English to Spanish. This is what all Hispanics
are working and praying for. Hispanic is currently the largest minority group
in America, outstripping Blacks.All illegals should be treated
equal... Deported.Agreed... before it's too late. But it's already
too late. Our politicians are loath to do anything about illegal immigration.
They fear losing the Hispanic vote. Why do you think Obama and his henchman,
Holder, does nothing about immigration?
@A voice of Reason""Love thy neighbor didn't mean 'except
under these circumstances.'"Supposing your neighbor wanted to
move into your home with you, sleep in your bed, and eat your food. Would your
comment be the same?"What matters isn't enforcing the
law."Without laws we are not a sovereign nation. Without
immigration laws and borders every square inch of this country would be occupied
by billions of people. The reason we are a great nation is because we limit who
and how many can come here."This country was founded to welcome
those in need into a free world."And we do welcome millions
each year... those who apply, wait in line, and come legally. Those people are
welcome. Others are not welcome."The most universally true
rule I've been convinced of is that when you get help you give it, to raise
others up."The US gives billions each year in aid to countries
around the world. If you feel that more is needed send a CARE package."Everyone receives help, yet far fewer are willing to give even an ounce
back."Americans are the most giving people in the entire world.
@Mary E Petty:"It (illigration law) needs to be fixed so people
can come to the US in an equitable and humane manner that has been America's
historical melting pot."People can come here. There is a way
to come legally. Fill out the papers, pass the simple test and get in line.
There are millions upon millions of folks who want to come to America to enjoy
our way of life. We can't take them all in nor can we countenance those who
break the law to get here. And that includes those who sneak across our borders
and those who come here on legal visas but overstay.If you want to
see why we must stop or at least manage immigration, go to YouTube: 'Immigration
Gumballs.'"Immigration is a key component of America's
greatness and should not be shut in some supposed legal mumbo jumbo that denies
our roots.Not so. The key component of America's greatness is that
we are a nation of laws, and that citizens obey the law. Those who don't, get
punished for it.
"But no one has gone quite as far as Alabama, whose law has been branded as
radical. Its hard-line stances on hiring and renting to illegals, demands for
schools to identify illegal students in classrooms and forbiddance of
transporting illegals in any way, shape or form have many up in arms."That's the federal law in a nut shell.Federal officials such
as Eric Holder should be held accountable for upholding the law. And that
includes the President who swore a oath, at his inauguration, that he would
uphold the US Constitution which says, in part (Article II, Section 3) 'that the
President should take care that the laws are carried out faithfully.' Failure
to carry out federal immigration laws and suing states who try, is tantamount to
reasons for impeachment.
OK, one more comment. Why are we over on the other side of the world trying to
help nations with their problems when we have one just south of our own border
which is a corrupt mess?Is it because Mexico doesn't have anything
There is always a solution. People need to be creative, use common sense and
good communication. But more importantly, for those who are religious or
spiritual need to listen to their God. I don't think God says to harbor
illegal fugitives. I think he says feed them, cloth them and help them get to
pay there debt if needed. Go to them and help them.The issue is
illegal immigration and all of the problems that it causes and brings with
it.I am empathetic and understanding of the plight of our neighbors
and I would like to help them. We don't need to invite them here to help them
though. We could just tell them to stay where they are at and we will send them
money, but that would just be welfare. Or, we could go there and teach them how
to take care of themselves so they can take care of themselves. This is, I am
told, what the LDS church does by the way. Those who have come here to
take advantage of the US and all of its generosity should consider this. When
you come here earn wages and then send some of those wages back to your
homeland, it is just causing a perpetual welfare system (not good by the way). I
have seen it. You would do better and be more honorable to take what you have
learned and earned here and go back to teach your families, your friends and
comrades and help them fight for there liberties. It is selfish if you don't.
None of this would be relevant if one simple thing was followed. OBEY the law!
just that simple its called illegal immigration why? because they broke the law!
And a punishment is affixed with the choice to break the law. Sorry they broke
the law, however we are a Nation of the rule of law and we as a church are to
honor and sustain the law of the land we can not pick and chose what laws we
keep and what we don't kinda like choosing only the commandments we agree with.
won't work there either.
I have not read any comments yet so I don't know if anyone addressed this yet,
but did you notice the poll on the first page? The media and or whoever took the
poll took the liberty to generalize immigration with illegal immigrants!I've
seen this a couple of other times and it is disturbing to me. I think or hope we
can all agree that the facts and issues should not be distorted or
misconstrued.Does anyone know of a media source that shares only the
facts and in an unbiased way? If you do PLEASE SHARE!
@CWEBThat is no justification for illegals breaking the law. In
fact, illegal behavior makes it even more difficult for that woman to immigrate
legally. It is impossible for America to take in every down trodden
person on this earth that desires to immigrate (see Roy Beck: Immigration by the
numbers on youtube). That is why we have a filter called immigration law. A
much better solution for so many in need would be to aide them in their country
of origin. Allowing legal immigration on humanitarian needs only is
not a viable answer. The sad part is that Mexico is a very wealthy and
prosperous nation compared to most, yet many (either on purpose or
inadvertently) are allowing this one demographic of people to receive the
majority of the benefits at the expense of other nationalities and races. They
seek to allow this one demographic to continue to break the rules and commit
felonies that damage the lives of others. Any law that seeks to
reward this behavior is by definition, discrimination.
1. There is no "line" to get in to come to the U.S. What don't you
people understand about the process? There is no "line" (first come
first serve!) 0.A woman files over and over, seeking to come to the
U.S. She pays all the money she has. A fortune to her. She is denied over and
over. Why? Because she is a woman. She may not own land. She may have little
money left after paying the U.S. Consulate fees. Denied. Denied. Denied. The system needs to be fixed people! Families, Women with children,
escaping brutality come out of desperation to find freedom. What don't you
understand? Yes, there is some criminal element. But many that
have committed a misdemeanor (like you getting a speeding ticket) were trying to
work a system that is unworkable, except for the wealthy. Until you
have lived this misery, and walked in the shoes, try a little compassion. Don't
buy into all the media has told you...even our legislature and politicians are
misinformed or uneducated...as they rip well-meaning families apart! God bless
these wonderful brothers and sisters! --Bless us to love and not hate.
Immigration is only a concern during election time. It's a subject
that reminds people that they are either republican or democrat. Politicians
only bring up immigration to get you to vote, not because they have a solution.
You're kidding yourself if you think any politician is going to actually do
something or has any idea what to do.This American government was
formed by our ancestors. Our government isn't dead. It's alive because we are
now carrying forth the dreams of our ancestors. Believe it or not, our
ancestors were just as divided in political thought as we are now. This is the
system we've inherited.I'm Navajo. I love this land. I appreciate
the bleeding hearts that convinced a US government not to exterminate my
ancestors and for my ancestors that fought and died for that same result. I feel
for other tribes that were moved from their homelands because someone else
wanted it. This is a special land. I think God has blessed it. I
believe there are good people and bad people. But for the most part, everyone
here was led by God. There is no easy answer.
RRB 1:34 said: As far as this article goes, according to Alabama lawmakers,
harboring an illegal immigrant is only a crime if it is done with the intent to
keep the person shielded or hidden from the authorities"And it
was the same crime the Dutch and others committed hiding Jews from the Nazis.
Yes, keep yout Utah jobs to yourselves. Keep this I have mine attitudes. When
we are ripened in iniquity, then the end cometh.
I think we can see what is happening here. Someone wants to shut us up before
the battle begins, in keeping our jobs for the citizens of Utah in 2012.
Once again, it's not a matter of compassion, decency, Christianity, charity, or
anything like that. It's about national solvency, national security, and
ultimately national survival. There has never been a country that didn't
enforce its borders and control access and residency and still survived. If you
want to be "charitable," get on over and down to those third-world
countries and help them with your own private funds. And as to enforcing the
law, I suppose we should let a murderer off the hook just because someone
somewhere in the state went 70 in a 65 mph zone . . . same logic. Sooner or
later we've got to wake up and face reality. Being blind and weak is not
working at all.
Ah yes, the strident chorus of those saying, we have ours and we are going to
keep it. Even at the cost of simple humanity and decency
I agree with botdriver.I also think that ID Chips at Birth or evan
tattooed numbers would be a great idea. We have great record keeping abilities
now and I do not just mean America, I mean all over the World. Keep better track
of the population from cradle to grave.I am not on all fronts sure
what to do about this problem in all situations.Throwing them all
out is one way but I do not think it is the way in all cases.Case in
point the illegals who have been here and came with there kids and the kids are
now teenagers or adults themselfs, America is their main culture and English
their main lanague.What I do know is that the process is to slow
with to many stages and appeals.Yes you have familys that are cought
up in it and are legal because of place of Birth or Mother or Dad being a
Citizen. Yes the family suffers when the adult member is deported. However
except in rare cases the family knew and are also breaking the law. I am on
Alabama's and Americas side.
Christy for one thing you like others like to throw that this nation is made up
of immigrants, Well over 200 years ago it might have been, that doesn't apply
anymore, and if you want to be technical, neither are the Mexicans, or did you
all forget that.and lets put this straight, we as the white and or
black races may have killed or defeated to get this country, Yesh black,
remember the Buffalo soldiers, but the most guilty of all, are the Spanish
races, how many cultures did they destroy in obtaining this country, HMMMM, they
are not natural to Mexico, or South America, now are they, right? Lets see the Incas? the Aztec? Yucatans, or MAYANS? and smaller cultures we
don't know? How about the American Indians in the Southern portion of the U.S.
So you people who wave a finger at the Europeans, or the British
who say that we are the only guilty group that took this country you best
remember your books, and remember they KILLED HUNDREDS of thousands or more to
obtain it, so This country of immigrants phrase, I am sick of it,
our ANCESTORS made our country, not us.
I do not think that this has much to do with Faith it more has to do with
breaking the law, and helping people break the law.I am on the side
of States that have passed tough laws. I also believe in ID Check
when you have such problems going on. If you check everyone that is not Racial
Profileing which I am not against, but is tacky at best.I remember a
bust in Sandy Utah that came about as people where check who where not breaking
the law, they just looked different. Some illegals are White and
many other races. It does not mean you are legal just because your White and
talk with a Southern Accent. I just wish that you could apply some
of there tough laws to Abortion.If the Feds will not act then the
States have got to act. If they do not act it is the same as saying its okay.
Which it is not because its both against the law and eats your Tax Dollars.How long do you think you would last as an Illegal in Mexico, trying to
obtain the same things that illegals are in America.
My 1st thought is what are the illegal students doing in school in the first
place. Simple proof of Citizenship before being allowed in School is
the answer to that question. You have a shot record why not a proof of
Citizenship requirment.I do follow the law and the law says that if
you are born here you are a US Citizen regardless of your parents standing at
the time of your birth. That is the law that needs to be changed. When that law
is changed there will be less desire to come over the Border and have a child.
If a child is being born here I don't want a child to die for lack
of services, this is America and we do somethings just because we can. We have
walked on the face of the Moon, surely we can handle this.I realize
this is mostly about Mexicans but I don't want the Race Factor to be an issue.
All illegals should be treated equal Deported.This is not about
Church and State this is about LAW and the Law say they go. If the Church
objects then change the law. States Rights Issue.
Steven our Immigration laws were updated in 1996, and even earlier than that,
they just have never been enforced like they should. They have been so to speak,
given a slight glance over the shoulder, and then given a, "Eh." then
moved on with, now it is biting those that are in government collectively in the
butt. Allowing illegal immigration only exploit's those that come
here, and it only makes this country more guilty of allowing it. Those that come here legally are also feeling this, from those that illegally
enter this country as they are given a bad rap as well, so I have no compassion
that enter this country illegally, and food for thought here, as with all the
rest that bicker here.If we illegally entered their country, and
were caught, you would not get 3 hot's and a cot, you would be paying for a
space to sleep, a blanket to keep you warm, food to eat, and you would have to
pay the official's watching you to protect you, and yes you would have to pay to
buy toilet paper to wipe your butt. That's not the case here,
something to think about.
@Botdriver,We are not a nation of immigrants? Are your ancestors
Native American? Mine are European, probably your's too. I was born here,
probably you too. Pure luck. And for you to sit on your pedestal and point
your finger and judge other human beings for coming here for want of a better
life for themselves and their families -- just as our ancestors did -- is
really ugly. Our immigration laws need to be updated. Laws change
as society changes.
There is a very simple reason why there are literally millions of workers here
without documentation: our economy needs them and our 1965-vintage immigration
laws are hopelessly outdated. The way people emigrate to this country and become
workers and/or citizens is broken. Why hasn't it been fixed? It's too easy for
our politicos to drum up votes by appealing to the bigoted biases of too many
Americans. The most recent evidence that bigotry trumps consideration of actual
policy solutions? Gingrich's win in SC.
I won't begrudge someone wanting a better life. But does the United States
really hold the answers to all the world's problems? There are many who are
citizens of the United States who are every bit as impoverished as those seeking
to come here. What's keeping the homelands of others from being as great as the
United States has been? There are many who are willing to help others in need,
but what happens when the giver no longer has anything more to give and has no
means earn what they need for themselves, let alone earn more to provide for
anyone else? Who is going to help those who are already citizens of this
country who are in need, and who is going to help those who will eventually end
up giving everything they have? Yes, we all need each other and at times we all
need some help.
I have very rarely hear any of these religious leaders (including Utah's
leaders) speak out against the horrors of Human Trafficking and Migrant
Smuggling which inflict real pain and suffering upon human beings. If they did,
60% of illegal immigration would rapidly stop. The delivery system operated by
organized crime would become exposed along with the lucrative connections to
the Chamber of Commerce's demand for disposable labor. These leaders
know about the horrors of trafficking and smuggling. Yet, like the religious
leaders during the European Holocaust, they have turned their heads as say they
never knew about it.
I am absolutely sick of this. People that use the term we are a nation of
immigrants. Sorry to those that state that, but those people that came here were
over 200 years ago. This nation, is no longer made of people who are
immigrant's.GET OVER IT!!These people are illegal, and
it needs to stop. This is a nation like every other nation, it has mutual
borders, and they need to be respected, and to those that are using that phrase
you need a pop up side the head. ILLEGAL MEANS WHAT IT SAY'S ILLEGAL, you are
breaking a federal law, not a state, a federal, and if the government will not
do their job, then the state has to do it.I am sick and tired of it
when people play that trump card, "This is a nation of immigrant's".
For one stop it, your ignorant. The second there are legal ways to enter this
country, and if you can't do it, then you don't, and if you do, and you get
caught, so be it you get the brand, and you get your fate.Don't come
to this country and expect a nice salutation.
The thing that most people fail to acknowledge is how unfair it is for the
millions of foreigners who have applied to come the USA legally. They are honoring and obeying the law and yet are seeing millions of illegals
come here, get jobs, be treated well, take advantage of medical and educational
opportunities, even getting the possibility of going to the front of the
immigration line, etc, etc... Those good people are really mad
about it. And if we don't solve the problem by making the illegals go home,
apply legally/properly, and wait their turn... we are guilty of terrible
discrimination.To be a party to this discrimination is VERY
unchristian! Why can't people see this side of the issue?!
The only reason this issue is divisive is because some people profit (in one way
or another) from illegals. And there are three key groups hoping to benefit:
Democrats, businesses, and religions.The rest of us were raised with
the clear understanding that laws are to be obeyed--and that the rule of law is
critical to our nation's stability.The divisiveness is fed by those
hoping to profit from illegals--and it usually involves the same name calling
(racists, lacking compassion, etc.). They know the names aren't true, but they
hope to influence public opinion through it.Unfortunately, the
majority of Americans agree with me. These illegals have no respect for our laws
and showed this the moment they crossed the border.
Religion is totally subjective. And it makes any issue more murky.
I hope that all those who talk about illegals breaking the law (yes, they are)
will remember what they said if they exceed the speed limit while driving. The
speed limit is a maximum cap on speed. The speed-control laws are specific and
exact. There is no buffer speed. The law requires that all drivers keep their
speed at or below the specified limit.I hope that our legislators
and we as a people can find a middle ground between being here legally and being
deported without their children who were born here and are thus American
It's not the law that divides religion and communities, it's illegal immigration
and those that hire them. VIDAR, it's illegal to work here without
permission from the government. NeilT, same old justifications, same old
answers. We can't stop murder either, but we can use laws that punish as a
deterrent to keep it at a more manageable level. The farmer in Colorado has
access to unlimited agriculture visas. Most illegal immigrants from Mexico won't
work the farms anymore. They prefer the city jobs. The locals saw through him
quite easily. As far as welfare, look at the states site "You can
apply for and get food stamp and medical benefits for eligible family members,
even if your family includes other members who are not eligible because of
immigration status. You do not have to provide immigration status
information, social security numbers, or documents for any family members who
are not eligible for food stamp or medical benefits because of immigrant status
and who are not asking for food stamp benefits.Using food stamp or medical
benefits will not affect your immigration status or the immigration status of
I came here with legal papers.It cost me 1 months wages in Norway 1957.Most cost was by the USA Ambasade in Oslo Norway.Trip over the ozean was
300.00 then..Bus from New york to SLC was about 50.00 then.To get
all legal papers is very expensiveI can see why those poor people
from South America has to walk ever feet on the sneaking into USA..........wish
it was a better way. for them, now let some Eurepen come in with money, maybe
they will treat the unlawful better?
Sportsfan21, your argument is flawed. If love for our neighbor(illegals) is the
reason to allow illegals to be here, then God's infinite love should permit all
to return to live in His presence. But only those who abide by a Celestial law
are given this privilege. God is bound by law, we should be, too. Are we
greater than our maker?
As long as there is poverty, violence, and goverment corruption in Mexico and
other central ameican countries there will be illegal immigration. All the
laws, fences and harsh rhetoric will not solve a problem that economic, not
criminal. KSL's Doug Wright did an interesting segment about a farmer in
Colorado who brougt in 100 migrant workers every year. Last year he decided to
offer 50 of those jobs to locals. Big mistake. He couldn't find 50 locals and
those few he found were incapable of doing the work. They didn't have the
stamina to work an 8 our shift. One last thought. Why do people believe
illegals are eligible for food stamps and other government benefits. Not. I
don't support illegal immigration. I support the church and their plea to bring
humanity back to the debate. A lot of mean spirited rhetoric on this issue. To
much emotion and not enough verifiable facts.
Samantha Murphey and Elizabeth Stuart have done a great job for the DN in
advocating the position of the DN that religious people help people who choose
to be in the USA illegally. I think it is time that an investigative reporter
looks into both the DN and the SLC chamber of commerece to see how much revenue
comes from the hospitality industry and the construction industry in advertizing
and membership in the chamber and fully examine if there is a vested interest.
Since the citizens of Utah pay for the education, incarcaration,healthcare,
infrastructure cost through both federal and state taxes and possible
unemployment costs for breadwinners forced to be on unemployment because of
undocumented hiring.It is time to look at both sides.
Someone get the violins hearts and flowers are in order. The lawless are in fear
of the law. What a novelty!
So, it is a felony to work?We should send people to prison for working?There are of couse ways to level the playing field when it comes to work
competion.there are also ways to deal with idenity fraud.Simply
create one social security number for those without a ss card. also collect the
maximum amount of federal and state taxes.do stings for businesses who
want to pay under the table; if caught take away their business license.but in the end; if someone will work for less, and do a better job, then who
is to accuse them of anything criminal?I have no problem with someone who
comes here to work; we should be collecting taxes from them as well.We
simply want to shoot our own foot to save face.
PLEASE contact your state elected representatives right now while the
legislature is in session.The amnesty advocates will be doing all they can
to continue the illegal behaviors of the illegal trespassers.Remind
your state legislator that illegal immigrant trespassers cost the state of utah
approx. 400 million per year.That money SHOULD be used for LEGAL RESIDENTS
and to help our legal citizens obtain jobs.Ask your legislators to remove
the "driver privilage cards". Since illegal immigrants AREN'T
SUPPOSED to be here they won't need them anyway!Ask your state legislator
to please put legal citizens needs above those of unethical and illegal
businesses.This is an election year for legislators; they WILL listen to
you if you try to communicate your feelings.
There is no conflict between compassion and upholding the law. Those who say
that there is are lying.
So many people with experience and knowledge about this article subject!!!Both sides are wrong here, but I will say that "our" side is
worsed.Most of the illegal immigrant came here for a better life,
have you check the process for someone in latin america to obtain a work or
papers here? I'm not justifiying illegal immigration but we need to be fair,
it's almost impossible without a co-signer or help from someone here, a US
citizen.Our politicians have done NOTHING to solve this issue,
NOTHING, why? because they're (illegals) are cheap and if we don't need them
anymore, we deport them. that's why we keep a number to do our "dirty"
jobs.White people: don't talk or act like the nazis, you know that
they blamed jews for the economy, jobs and benefits like YOU do. please WE NEED
EACH OTHER, I hope our super politicians can solve it and make something to help
each one of us AND THEM!
As far as this article goes, according to Alabama lawmakers,
âharboringâ an illegal immigrant is only a crime if it is done with
the intent to keep the person shielded or hidden from the authorities.
Transporting illegal immigrants would only be considered illegal if the person
does so âin furtherance of the unlawful presenceâ of the immigrant
in the United States.From what I have read, giving rides to church
or to the store does not constitute a violation of the law.
"Romans 13, Christians are told they are under "biblical mandate to
respect the divinely ordained institution of government and its just laws."
But the Bible also commands believers to "show compassion and
justice for the sojourner and alien among us."These statements
are not at odds. Enforcing immigration laws has nothing to do with compassion.
It's enforcing a law. The sojourner and alien among us have laws they must
follow. A sojourner is a person who resides temporarily in a place. Not someone
who takes up permanent residence. Israels new immigration laws put
people in jail for 14 years with no trial. We are still ignoring
Americans and legal immigrants, and calling for them to be treated with
Hunt,That's not what the Alabama law says, and that's what we're
talking about. This law makes it a crime to hire, rent, house, or help transport
any illegal immigrant. It's meant to make every illegal want to leave but it
really just makes other people afraid to help a brown person in any way (since
they could be illegal). If you really believe in treating people
equally, picture this: You are going to rent a house in Alabama to a family. 2
families ask to see the place (one white and one hispanic). They both have
proper identification. Which one will you rent to? The hispanic family that you
suspect forged papers? Or the white family? Remember that if the hispanic family
is illegal you could be hit with a heavy fine.Tell me, would you
pick the hispanic family? I'm guessing you'd cover your butt and rent to the
white family.That's why Alabama's law is racist and that's why I'm
against it.I'm out of posts for this topic, but tell me if you would
enjoy being a legal hispanic person in Alabama right now when everyone's afraid
of hiring you?
@sportsfan21I treat everyone equally. If someone is in need, I will
give them aid. If someone is hungry, I will feed them. It's not my job to
determine who is illegal and who is not. That's the job of our government.
Something they fail to do. Now, will I knowingly hire an illegal? No. Will I
encourage an illegal to take advantage of the system? No. No one
is going to arrest you for feeding the hungry or aiding the poor in Alabama.
They will arrest you if you are knowingly aiding the illegal behavior of others,
there is a big difference. Laws aren't created to comfort those who choose
to break them. People who choose to deceive, steal and lie should not be
comforted and aided in their attempts to continue the practice as that very
practice does real tangible harm to others. As a side note, since
Alabama's immigration laws were passed, they have seen a dramatic decrease in
their unemployment rates. Funny how that works.
Jonathan Eddy, it's multiple felonies to work here. And God has said that we are
to obey mans laws, unless they conflict with his commandments. None
of his commandments give permission for illegal immigration to increase wealth.
They do tell us not to steal, lie and covet.
My brother lived in Alabama working construction for 15 years. He has a wife and
two children, plus a house (had). But 4 years ago the job market was so flooded,
that he was laid off. Illegal workers were the only ones kept on, along with a
few supervisors. My brother lost his house, and moved to Utah, long enough to
drop off his wife and kids at her parents. The kids were pulled out of school,
their possessions lost after they could not pay the storage fee. My brother goes
from temp job to temp job, sending money home when he can. This is America?
This is compassion? Compassion is extended on a personal basis, not by ignoring
@CougarblueI'm sorry but there is a big difference between speeding
on your way to Vegas and committing a felony through document fraud and identity
Hunt,You really have the audacity to claim that I'm favoring latinos
by asking for compassion? I'm not even pro amnesty or anti border control! Since
you love putting words in my mouth, let me sum up what I think you're trying to
say:"I go by the name of Hunt and I'm from Spanish Fork. I
earned my freedom because I was smart enough to pick the womb of a legal
citizen. Because I'm an American, I have the right to look down on anyone who
wants what I have. I can call them criminals, demand that they receive no
compassion when a law limits others from feeding them, and never give it another
thought because, hey, it's not my problem. I'm the one with rights,"News flash: Even though I agree illegal immigration is hurting the
economy, I can use my brain and understand why Alabama's law is racist. If it's
against the law to give an illegal a ride in my car, which race will I be really
hesitant to pick up? And do you really think those landlords and business owners
will be equally skeptical of white people?No? Then it's a racist
@Sportsfan21The key is "all men are created equal". By
supporting illegal immigration you are primarily supporting one race and
nationality above all others. You are holding them up as a more privileged
class of people. You are at the same time spitting in the face of those who
would love to come to our country legally and uphold and respect our laws.
Immigration Laws, even they have flaws, were passed to create a fair and orderly
process of immigration. The true racists are the ones that continue to feign
compassion for the illegals when their true motivation is cheap labor. Those
that are so quick to call law abiding citizens bigots should be ashamed of
themselves. Do we, who are for legal immigration, have compassion for those who
are less fortunate? Of course we do. Do we think that supporting them as they
commit one felony after another will benefit them? No, of course we don't. And
we won't put up with the continued effort to allow the current, illegal
practices that damage the U.S. economy and its citizens to continue.
People don't become compassionate by wanting our laws ignored. People don't become humane by accepting lawbreaking (that goes far beyond
speeding). Do children learn by rewarding their bad behavior, or by
punishment? If the pro-illegal folks really cared, they would of
told the people to come here legally. This is nothing more than a push for cheap
It never ceases to amaze me how so many people can be so concerned about
somebody else breaking the law. But in the same breath, they can completely
excuse the times they do it. Don't believe me? Drive to Vegas down I-15 some
time and take notes of how many Utah cars are breaking the speed limit, and some
of them are shattering it. Breaking the law doesn't seem to bother us unless
it's somebody else breaking it. What hypocrites we all are.
to...Say No to BO | 3:43 p.m. Jan. 21, 2012 IMMIGRATION LAW DOESN'T WORK,
period!This is an issue of years, while politicians and white people get
their pockets full of money, we willlet illegals to do low wage, no benefits
jobs, that by the way NOBODY else will do.Most of these people have family
members that are permanent residents or even citizens but the law doesn't work
on their side, it takes more than 8 years for them to get their papers under a
family member, fair? I don't think so!
jim l | West Jordan, UTThe media is at it again, with these
tear stained stories about the poor illegals.===========Don't blame the media for reporting facts.The gospel says, 'When I
was hungry, you fed me. When I was lonely, you comforted me. When I was in
prison, you visited me.' No scripture ever said, 'If I had documentation, then
you gave me food.'If you think it's a crime to be a good samaritan
like the weeping woman in the photo, then you need to re-evaluate things.Maybe tomorrow during Sacrament?
Everyone-The law? To these "law" arguers- I have a
religious argument for you. I know it's easy to set aside religious ideas as
fanatical and superstious. But this argument is reason and logic, and I
challenge any one of you to prove otherwise."They say unto him,
Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law
commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?" Jesus
replied "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at
her."There is no universal law of existence that requires us to
enforce an eye for an eye. There is no force in existence that requires us to
banish, deport, expel, or forcibly remove someone from this land.Do
I support their undocumented and unlawful choice? No. However, until every last
American can prove they've never broken a law, I believe that forcing millions
of families apart is ungodly, wrong, even disgusting.Shouting
"remove them!" is un-American. If you won't accept the poor, needy,
etc- I'd argue immigrants are more American. I'd rather my neighbor need my
help than refuse to help others. Is that so insane?
If you are here illegally aren't you breaking more than just one law. If you are
working either your are not reporting your income to IRS which would get the
rest of us thrown in jail or you are lying about who you are and using either a
fake or stolen SSN. As I understand it each of these offenses is a felony. As
far as having compassion and not separating families due to breaking the law
then we should have compassion and no one should ever be sent to jail for
breaking man made laws, because they have families too. But then again I'm sure
it's not a big deal when someone steals your identity and ruins your credit and
you have to spend tons of money and time fixing it. Nope doesn't hurt a sole. I
guess if you are here illegally and just live off legal family members then you
aren't breaking more than one law. I sure that is rare though.
I've said this several times: How can any person, aside from soldiers who defend
our freedom, act like they've earned freedom. "We hold these
truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed
by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness."Freedom is a gift from
God that EVERY human should have. It's sad that not everyone can be free at this
present time, but how awful is it that people on this board feel entitled to
it?If you or a family member served in our armed forces, I thank you
for defending our freedom and ask that you disregard my next statement (for you
truely have earned freedom). None of us have earned freedom, we are fortunate to
have it given to us. My ancestor gave up everything he had to come to America.
He earned it. All I did was be born on the right side of the border.It's very hypocritical for anyone to claim that they earned freedom while an
illegal is a criminal for wanting it. Show some compassion and end the hatred.
I keep hearing people use "render unto Caesar that which is Caeser's"
as an argument that we should drop compassion. First, he said that to Pharisees
who were planning to condemn him for blasphemy or rebellion against the
government. Last I checked, this is America where I shouldn't have to worry
about being fined for giving someone food or a ride. I'm sure Jesus wants us to
respect laws, but he was also pretty vocal when laws were morally wrong (he
refused to talk to Herod when he was ordered to, why didn't he render that to
Herod?) and he was compassionate to the woman caught in adultery even though she
broke the law.Second, what was Christ's first commandment? Love God!
His second? Love thy neighbor as thyself (and even as He loves us). I'm ok with
border control, but when we act irritated by their presence it really proves
that we love ourselves more than we love them. I understand that we can't help
everyone, but can we cut the intolerance?I feel so grateful to be in
America and I'm sad others can't have as much freedom as me> I don't hate
them for wanting it.
It's a sad day in America when anyone who resists the invasion of this homeland
is labeled a bigot, a racist, and a non-Christian. If the Japanese had
accomplished a west-coast landing during WWII, some of you would be saying,
"Well, we're a nation of immigrants, so what's the problem?" When the
Spanish were landing in Central and South America and practicing genocide with
the native population, I suppose the people should have said, "We're a
nation of immigrants, so what's the big deal?" Just because people don't
come armed to the teeth doesn't mean they don't do heavy damage to our nation.
"Oh, they just want a better life for themselves and their families."
The same could be said of the bank robber; he just wants a better deal, and is
willing to take from others without permission . . . that's all. I suppose all
true Christians should give them the keys, the passwords, and whatever else they
want; anything less just wouldn't be charitable.
I aam a firm believer that some of you believe that it's ok to break the law,
but I am here to say that as long as the the laws that are put into laws state
that it's a crime to be in this country illegally than I am for up holding the
laws of this land, and people who breaks the law needs to be held accountable.
There are long waiting list to get into this country and I a firm believer that
those people waiting to enter this country the legal way should get the frist
shot at coming to this country and not the ones who are here illegally. They
should be deported and if it takes them years to come back so be it. Their
children wether they are born in this country should not be illegal citzens,
because their parents broke the laws to enter this country and needs to be
deported with them, so that they don't create a burden on our systems. I am a
firm believer that the churches need to stay out of these issues, or face losing
their noprofit status.
Ah yes bigotry is alive and well. Just ask the evangelicals who won't vote for a
candidate who is Mormon.
How sad. The selfish excuse about illegals causing unemployment is purse
falacy. The sheer bigotry of many of the comments are stunning.
Why the divide? Because Christianity inherently means believing in justice and
mercy. The problem is that many people are persuaded into a mentality that their
own God commanded against. Love thy neighbor didn't mean 'except under these
circumstances'.One cannot hold the belief that their first priority
is the family and think that the 'send them back or jail them' mentality
promotes that belief. I watch probably over 90% of drivers speed past me on the
freeway while I stay in the right lane and go the speed limit. By all means, I
don't believe in locking everyone else up. Are any of us perfectly law-abiding
citizens? Probably not. What matters isn't enforcing the law. A ruthless monarch
can enforce the law all the same. This country was founded to welcome those in
need into a free world. No matter how much people may push our laws away from
that purpose, there is no freedom in receiving help and not extending it.The most universally true rule I've been convinced of is that when you
get help you give it, to raise others up. Everyone receives help, yet far fewer
are willing to give even an ounce back.
A member of my ward is 60 years old and used to be a concrete finisher. At one
point he owned his own concrete finishing business. First he was forced to give
up his business due to competition from illegal aliens. They he had to leave his
home in Reno, Nevada and move to Seattle. Illegal aliens in Reno so depressed
the wages that he could not make a living there.I obviously feel
sooooo sorry for the illegal aliens.They break into our country,
steel jobs from our children and some how I am the bad guy when I complain.
Give me a break.
If these Churches really cared, they would be telling these people to come here
legally and to follow the laws. It would help people in the future to avoid
these problems. But none seen concerned about preventing it. This
acceptance of crime and dishonesty is destroying our country from within.
sg, Paul Ryan presented a workable plan to ease Americans out of the entitlement
mess that the feds originally created, and Obama rejected it. Obama is our
biggest obstacle to resolving illegal immigration and entitlements. Big
government is always the problem, never the solution to any of the problems they
in the first place created. People need to quit voting for hard core liberals
at any level.
I'm afraid people in this great state and the state of Alabama are judging too
quickly. Do you know what it's like to live the life of some of these
immigrants? Have you tried legally coming to the United States from a third
world country? If anyone has, I'd love to hear your story of how difficult or
easy it was? Because at least then it'd be a credible judgement.Not
too long ago it was illegal for a black person to sit in a bus, eat at a
restaurant, etc as a white person. I believe in obeying, honoring and sustaining
the law, but I also am open minded enough to know that the laws aren't perfect.
The bleeding never seems to stop: the bleeding heart liberals, journalists,
politicians, and ecclesiastical types who want to bleed the taxpayer and citizen
worker just a little more, and have all kinds of supposed rationale to justify
the whole scam. Real charity has nothing to do with government confiscation of
asssets and income to support those who don't want to play by the rules. It's
amazing how much trouble we're in already because of our non-enforcement of laws
already on the books, and it's equally amazing that we have so many people who
want to compound the mistakes by being even more flacid and careless. I just
wish those who advocate this stuff were the only ones paying the freight for it.
Could it be the DN is publishing this tripe because the Utah Legislature is in
@Mary E PettyThe law is just fine, thank you (except the chain migration
part which is not in the best interest of our nation).If indeed we had
migration at around 250,000 per year and the political will to deport that who
are not here legally, we would see:*Higher wages for those of few
skills*Lower unemployment among minorities and the poor*Less-crowded
clsasrooms*More social services available to care for our own*Safer
roads and streets*Better assimilation of our language and customsAlas, politicians and preachers are looking for more customers and playing
identity politics.The problem isn't the law; it's the pandering in
the name of power, using illegal aliens as the pawns.
I have a hard time feeling sorry for people who knowingly break laws. I'm sorry
I'm so hardhearted, but my family came from Europe and had to wait and wait and
even had sponsors who would pay there way and make sure they weren't a burden on
the citizens of the country. These people should have waited so they could
lawfully come into the United States. To the Latter-day Saints who encourage
this breaking of the law, the 12th Article of Faith is quoted thus: "We
believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in
obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." If I remember right this is
the very reason Wilford Woodruff announced the reason for discontinuing the
practice of plural marriage. President Woodruff did this after exhausting all
legal remedies. I will ask that Latter-day Saints who can't live by the laws
that they raise their arm to the square to, would please surrender their Temple
Recommends until they are honoring and sustaining the laws of the land and being
honest with their fellowmen.
It just goes to show that as illegal aliens flee Alabama, Utah the unemployment
rate is dropping for American labor--as according to several reports?
Enforcement policing protocols are having the desired effect, which proves that
state immigration laws do work if practiced and not neglected. My guess is that
although I have not heard of any similar hiring statistics in Arizona, Georgia,
South Carolina and even Utah, but it wouldnt surprise me if this news hasnt been
suppressed by the newspapers and the central government. It will be very
interesting to learn if promises are kept by the 4 remaining presidential
personages. Even Gingrichs agenda to give the long time illegal aliens some form
of pardon, without citizenship whereas, I hate to think of a returned President
Obama has in-store for the United States. Whatever his idea of enforcing
immigration laws are, it will just attract even more impoverished and criminals
to arrive via our almost unprotected border or by international jet.
Those who choose to commit crimes (including violating immigration laws) suffer
consequences. Sometimes legal consequences, other times social or employment
consequences.It is disgusting that the news media refuses to stand
up for the law abiding citizens and instead choose to side with the
lawbreakers.It is fine to argue that our immigration laws should be
changed (although I believe they need enforcement rather than change) but to use
the power of the media to deceptively portray crimianls as "victims"
is unethical.Legal immigrants are a welcome asset to our great
country, but criminals are not.
It is her right as a free thinking citizen to do what she does, but it is in no
way God's role in breaking the laws of the land. In fact, it is contrary to what
He and His Son taught. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God
that which is God's. This teary coverage does nothing the remedy or correct or
appease the citizens of the United States. Yes, we take care of our own
(questionable at times) and help the many throughout the world, but to continue
to ignore the financial abuse caused by so many who refuse to obey the laws, no.
We are done. It is time to seal the borders. It is time to take all entitlement
programs away. It is time to repeal the Dream Act. It is time to demand that
everyone must speak English in this country. There should no longer be a
bi-lingual anything. The anger expressed throughout this country increases, and
not against the 1 percentage (which I believe is a smoke screen, a diversion),
but rather should be directed against law breakers.
We are a nation of immigrants, whose greatness has been her people and their
willingness to unite together in the common cause of American Life, Liberty and
the Pursuit of Happiness. Today's Immigration law maybe called legal, but it is
certainly flawed and doesn't work as intended. America is at risk from such law.
It is immoral, capricious, and irrational. It needs to be fixed so people can
come to the US in an equitable and humane manner that has been America's
historical melting pot. Immigration is a key component of America's greatness
and should not be shut in some supposed legal mumbo jumbo that denies our roots.
May cooler heads prevail this year as our representatives work together to find
the best solution for instituting good immigration law. I for one hope that the
Utah Compact will continue to lead out and help our fellow states and the
federal government resolve our modern day immigration mess.
Jonathan, there is a difference. This is not the same thing. Those that hire
illegals are paying a poor wage and then they ask the rest of us to make up for
what they are not paying. We are asked to subsidize their wages by paying for
their health care, education, rent, etc. etc. This is not charity, its a tax.
Daniel refused a government edict and chose God's higher law to continue
praying. I too choose a higher law to serve my neighbor, with or
without a green card.I sure hope God is merciful to me as I now
openly break a man made misdemeanor law.
Whatever happened to the notion I was taught at home and at church that if you
aren't doing anything wrong you can hold your head up high and walk through town
without fear or shame? And if you do the crime, expect to pay the consequences
sooner or later.These people are afraid for good reason; they are breaking
the law and living a lie. And they bring children into the world in the midst
of this careless lifestyle.They are no longer in control of their destiny
because they are living outside the law. Don't blame the so called
"mean-spirited" people of Alabama.And we get the message when
the Deseret News assigns two reporters to write this piece. We get the message.
We just don't buy it.
I am a firm believer that you need to keep state and church apart. There is also
some bible veres that state you must follow the law of the govt. and render unto
Ceaser and what is god to god. I believe that if you are here illegally, you are
breaking the law and people that helps the illegalls are breaking the law too,
furter if a church choses to break the laws they need to lose their noprofit
status and be subject to court action. There are many people waiting to come to
this country the legall way and should be given the frist shot at coming here. I
also believe that if you are here illegally, then you get none of the benifits
that legal people get no foodstamp, no medical, no schooling and no in state
tution. What you get is deported, or go to jail and then deported and not
allowed to return to this country without the proper papers and if it take 10
years to do so be it. I am tired of my money going to keep the illegals here.
The media is at it again, with these tear stained stories about the poor
illegals. Why not a story about all the hardships they have caused because of
the wage suppression and lost jobs for the average american? Or the increased
costs of health care because of the illegals? Or the greedy americans who want
to hire the illegals instead of paying a decent wage? I dont see any of those
kinds of articles.