Published: Tuesday, Jan. 17 2012 12:00 a.m. MST
I'd like to see a legitimate rebuttal to a cusory fact-check on highly-moral Mr.
Romney. I know it won't come.
When will we see his tax records?
Let's see if I got this right?According to the author, of the 77
companies purchased by Bain, 22% ultimately failed.First: The author
uses a common "how to lie with statistics" tactic to make it appear
that the failures were higher than they actually were. There actually is a book
in print which teaches how to do this.Makes it sound like 22 firms
failed, when simple math will tell you that only 14 failed. That means that 55
prospered, whereas nearly 55 were failing before being reorganized, a net
improvement of significant note. (do your own research.)Second: 80%
of the reorganized businesses succeeded, an astonishing number if you know
anything at all about rates of failure in business. When sports stars and teams
go 8/10, we call them dynasties. If a batter hit 8/10, he'd get $100M a year.
Puhols just got $25M for the next 10 years, and he is only 3 in 10.Why is it always more attractive to throw stones than to build with them. Bain
Capital hit 8/10. If the Federal Government went 8/10 we'd have no debt and a
flourishing economy. Hmmmm....
@one old man:When it is customary to diclose them, around April
before an election. This question is as inane as, "when will we see his
birth certificate?"Neither question has merit. Stop looking for
See, simple math is difficult. 77-14 = 63 or 90% success. Even with my error,
Bain looks better than the author would have us believe. Nobody succeeds in
business 90% of the time, except Las Vegas, and we love those guys without
@One old man: Why is the tax return so important? So you can say "Aha, I
told you he was rich"? Do you think he cheated on his taxes? I don't get
why it's relevant.Conservatives believe that we need to downsize
government. So it seems like electing a guy who knows how to fire people would
be a good thing. How can conservatives criticize him for that?
If Mitt presides (presidential) like he managed, then it seems probable that he
would streamline government aand subsidized industry (ie, downsize, reduce
jobs). He would likely streamline the military, since it is such a large
component of our bureaucracy. Defense-dependent industries and contractors
would be affected (ie, downsize, reduce jobs).These ideas are
aligned with true conservative principles. Do YOU think he'll do
those conservative things with government. Now, let's be honest.
Invisible -- The tax return is important for what it will show, whether or not
he cheated. It will show us that most of his income is from investments.
Because it is from investments, you will discover that he pays a much lower
percentage of total income than ordinary Americans pay.Why? Isn't
this supposed to be a land of equal opportunity and responsibility? Why should
anyone be paying a lower effective tax rate than anyone else? Aren't we all
equal as citizens -- or are some more equal than others?
@newintown"See, simple math is difficult. 77-14 = 63 or 90% success.
Even with my error"Um... 63/77 is not 90%, it's 82%. This isn't difficult, when you read that 22% failed, you think 'roughly 1 in 5
failed' or 'about 1 in 4 failed' (depending on if you want to round up or down).
You don't think 22 out of 77 failed and if you do then you just stink at math
and that probably helps explains why people believe tax cuts lead to revenue
@one old manRomney acknowledged today that his income tax rate is probably
closer to 15%.
Romney has a great background to fix government. If he said he was going to
come in, fix the tax code, increase tax revenues, cut the defense department,
fix Medicare...etc., he would clearly be the right guy for the job.But saying he'll do things as president that will cause the unemployment rate
to go down is a different story. His actual proposals have to do with causing
the rich to get richer, with only a vague hope that the rich getting even richer
will trickle down to more jobs for the rest of us.
@one old man: I agree that we should all pay the same tax rate. But you can't
fault Romney for paying 15%. It's not his fault the tax code gives him that
advantage. He's just playing by the rules. So I still don't see why his taxes
are relevant to anything (unless he did something illegal).What is
relevant is he could use his tax information to demonstrate why we need a major
tax code overhaul. Romney should use this silly interest in his taxes to focus
attention on what should be a major campaign issue: tax reform.
What Mitt is capable of is exactly what he is accused of. Entering an
organization and making it more effecient... and that does mean cutting jobs...
likely starting with government agencies and that will trickle down to
government contractors. Sounds like he has the exact skillset to do just what
conservatives want... smaller government.It is NOT the governments
purpose to provide jobs. That is the objective is more socialist/communist
governments... One purpose of democratic capatalist government is to create an
environment where individuals / businesses can generate profits and return value
to shareholders.Regarding his income taxes... If all my income came
from investments, my tax rate would be 15% too. This tax rate applies to all
who are willing to invest. Those who invest wisely can become wealthy.If Mitt cannot turn these accusations to his favor... then maybe he isn't the
man for the job.
I'm going ask, in the vain of Newt Gingrich, about these businesses that failed,
who cares? Is that Bain's Capital fault? Is it Romney's fault? If I understand
things right, these companies were going under anyway. End of story. It's called
capitalism. Like Newt did with Juan's questions, Romney needs to
stand up and with conviction say something like this. "It's private
enterprise. Sometimes businesses fail, sometimes people lose jobs. Sometimes
businesses prosper, sometimes jobs are gained."
Bain Capital and Romney, raided companies with the only intention of making
money and closing them down. Leving tax payers in one case to foot the bill for
44 million in pension payments. Romney isnt president, and never will be, but he
has run up defecits. He is a fraud, and a clown. OBAMA 2012
OUR success is hardly guaranteed, as Romney's experience shows. More than four
years after the United States fell into recession, many Americans have resorted
to raiding their savings to get them through the stop-start economic recovery.
(Like the run on the Banks that caused the Great Depression in the 20's that
lasted into 1945). In an ominous sign for America's economic growth prospects,
workers are paring back contributions to college funds and growing numbers are
borrowing from their retirement accounts. Some policymakers worry that a recent
spike in credit card usage could mean that people, many of whom are struggling
on incomes that have lagged inflation, are taking out new debt just to meet the
costs of day-to-day living. American households have been spending recently in
a way that did not seem in line with income growth. So somehow they've been
doing that through perhaps additional credit card usage. Just as Americans used
to borrow against the value of their homes before the property crash, now many
are taking out loans from their 401(k) retirement savings plans. I
told you I would tell you the truth about "the anointed one" Mitt
Romney.My truthful views.
@Invisible Hand"So I still don't see why his taxes are relevant to
anything (unless he did something illegal)."Romney pays roughly
the income + payroll tax rate (remember only a small percentage of his income is
subject to payroll taxes since it's capped at affecting only the first ~120k) as
I do and I only make very slightly more than the poverty rate. That's fine, it's
how the tax code is set up and I assume he did nothing illegal. Here's where it
does matter. The Republicans, and Romney have been pushing this idea that the
job creators (read: rich) are overburdened with taxes and regulations and that
they're carrying the tax load for those freeloaders. I I'm paying the same rates
as Romney is, and his tax plan increases taxes on the poor and cuts it for the
rich, then I think it's perfectly valid to point to his tax returns and say this
is nonsense. He's not overburdened with taxation. The poor are paying
practically the same levels as he is; the middle class is paying more. Why would
we want or need his tax plan that provides ~140k in tax cuts to each
one old man | 8:21 a.m. Jan. 17, 2012 Ogden, UT >When will
we see his tax records?"I'm sure the IRS has seen them. Try to
be more legit.
Democrats who criticize Romney's involvement with Bain Capital are either very
niave or hypocrites. They praised Obama for bailing out Chrysler and GM but the
first things they did after taking over those struggling companies is to
consolidate them by down sizing and closing thousands of dealerships, elimating
less profitable Pontiac and Oldsmobile divisions. Thousands of people lost their
jobs during this process. I am waiting for a TV ad interviewing even one of
those poor people who Obama threw out of a job by his "vulture
capitalism". By the way, when will tax payers see an accounting of exacly
who received the bailout money, especially who got it at Chrysler and GM? We
will NEVER know the answer to that, because Democrats do not want YOU to know
how much of your money the UAW got in a payment for their votes!
Are you kidding me?"When will we see his tax records?I'm sure the IRS has seen them. Try to be more legit."Lets
roll back the clock here about all these claims for being open to share
everything - how everything will be out there unlike our current President...And yet, the State of Hawaii from the beginning claimed the birth
certificates was legit.... and you all still were not happy. Harvard has
validated that Obama was the head of his call... and you all were not happy.But now, we get "I'm sure the IRS has seen them. Try to be more
legit.".... the lack of a response means that everything must be ok for
Romney. How things are different if you are a white middle aged Republican.
Same level of scrutiny not required evidently.And the most ironic
thing is that it was Mit's own dad who set the precedent by releasing 12 years
of returns when he ran. The good thing we do know now is that Mit
does have something in common with the poor - he pays in the lowest tax bracket
and pays no social security tax because it was all from "investments"
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