Comments about ‘In our opinion: Honoring 'civil' rights’

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Published: Monday, Jan. 16 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

"But as King himself constantly reminded, the struggle for civil rights was not simply about race. It was, and is, about the rights a just nation confers upon all people, and enforces fairly for all people, regardless of cultural, physical or economic status."

Precisely. Very well said.

Does this mean you will rethink your position regarding the civil rights of gays?

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

re: Blue,

You demean Mr. King when you group your desire to change "marriage" to include unions between people of the same sex. You demean everything that he stood for.

He never advocated that those who followed him engage in homosexual relations.

He never advocated redefining the word "marriage".

His dream did not include two men or two women calling themselves a "family" and adopting children.

His dream called for a man and a woman being able to raise their children in a world that did not judge them by the color of their skin.

He did not dream of destroying society by destroying the most fundamental unit of society - the family. He did not dream of abandoning principles established and ordained by God.

Ranch
Here, UT

Is the DN going to come out in support of the Civil Rights of GLBT Americans then? Judging from this article, it would appear to be the case.

@Mike Richards;

Please take a deeper look at Mr. King's history. One of his right-hand-men was a homosexual. Then read the statements by his wife Corretta Scott King, that Marriage is a Civil Right for homosexuals.

Please educate yourself.

Roland Kayser
Cottonwood Heights, UT

To Mike Richards: You have no idea what MLK thought about gay rights, neither does anyone else. He never talked about it.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

Mike,

Seriously?

You really believe that if Dr. King were alive today he would oppose equal civil rights for gays?

Every word of King's sermons have been analyzed for anything resembling bigotry against gays. Nothing has been found.

Do you remember the political climate of the 60's? I do. Social conservatives were claiming King was a communist and worse. King was intensely focused on moving his cause forward, and could not afford to dilute his message.

Yet during this time one of his closest advisors was Bayard Rustin, who was openly gay. Rustin was the principle architect of the 1963 March on Washington, right down to scheduling King's "I have a dream' speech as the final event. Other of King's advisors said that allowing a gay man such a prominent position in the civil rights movement would provide their opponents with ammunition to use against them, but King refused to dissociate himself from "Brother Bayard."

No, Mike, I think it is highly unlikely that if Dr. King were alive today that you'd be able to list him as an advocate for denying equality of civil rights to our gay brothers and sisters.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

@Mike Richards | 7:33 a.m. Jan. 16, 2012
South Jordan, Utah
re: Blue,

You demean Mr. King when you group your desire to change "marriage" to include unions between people of the same sex. You demean everything that he stood for.

==================

On the contrary MR.

His "Dream" never once talked about marriage.
It talked about EQUALITY.

It was specific toward a future when our Society would drop Bigotry and Intolerance of others based entirely on what group they belonged to, not the individual.

You know - judging on the Content of ones Character.

You completely missed it
and can't seem to get past 1963.

BTW - Speaking of marriage (since you brought it up)
Inter-Racial Marriage was against the law in 1963.
We've progressed past that one thanks to his Civil Rights movement.

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

So this holiday and Martin Luther King, Jr. has become the symbol for gay activism, has he? What a shame! There is nothing in his life style that tells us that he was gay or that he championed gay rights. To use him and this holiday as just one more excuse to advocate gay rights degrades him and this holiday.

He did things that no other American had ever been able to do. He talked of things that lift people. He did not preach things that degrade or demean.

To think that he would be used today by gay activists to promote their agenda is an abomination to his name.

Instead of twisting history, why not use this day and this man as a focal point on what it means to "have a dream" where whites and blacks get along without regard to the color of their skin?

Ranch
Here, UT

@Mike Richards;

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

Martin Luther King Jr.

"Lesbian and gay people are a permanent part of the American workforce, who currently have no protection from the arbitrary abuse of their rights on the job. For too long, our nation has tolerated the insidious form of discrimination against this group of Americans, who have worked as hard as any group, paid their taxes like everyone else, and yet have been denied equal protection under the law."

Coretta Scott King

I suspect Mr. & Mrs. King had a similar set of values, which included equality for homosexuals as well as blacks.

In any case, whatever your fictional god says and ordained was ordained by the followers of said fictional god. Nobody else is obligated to live by, or follow the "ordainments" of your fictional god.

My own fictional god has mandated that "Bigotry is immoral". While you are not obligated to follow the dictates of my fictional god, one would think that common sense would indicate the same ideal.

George
Bronx, NY

@mike richards and j thompson
I actually had the honor of meeting and talking with Mr. Kings son once we had a very lengthy discussion about many issues. He actually brought up the gay rights issues. he talked about people how happened to be gay within the civil rights movement that where very close to Dr. King that marched with him, preyed with him and often went to jail with him. His son was emphatic that Dr. King supported his friends then and that he has now doubt he would support the gay communities struggle for equality now. His wife is also on record stating that she to believes Dr. King would have supported the gay rights movement. So I hope you will excuse me if I take his son and wives word over yours as far as how Dr King would feel about the gay rights movement.

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

We have avowed homosexuals telling us that the Martin Luther King, Jr. holiday is a day that should be equated with how sex organs are used.

Have they no shame?

Is nothing in America sacred?

The next thing we're going to hear is that unless the word "nice" is redefined, Santa Claus must be outlawed because he only takes gifts to "nice" boys and girls.

There is NO civil right that guarantees the right to have homosexual intercourse. Martin Luther King, Jr. was not a homosexual rights activist. Using his name to promote homosexual activity shows total lack of respect for him and for his life.

I know and associate with gay men in my business dealings. Does that mean that I accept and promote their chosen lifestyle? I also know and associate with heterosexual men who are unfaithful to their wives. Does that mean that I accept and promote their chosen lifestyle?

To infer that Martin Luther King, Jr. promoted gay activism because members of his team were gay is false and misleading. He never promoted gay "rights" - not once. There is NO public speech showing his advocacy for homosexual activity.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

JThompson: "Is nothing in America sacred?"

Yes. Equal protection under the law for all Americans is sacred.

George
Bronx, NY

@j thomas
the fact that you only view gays through their "sexual organs" tells much about why you just don't get it. It also explains why your would dismiss those closest to him for your own random beliefs about what he stood for rendering any further debate with you useless.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

I think hijacking his day is not only wrong minded, but demeans the man.

That said, I do thinkk MLK would stand for every persons right to be who they are, and from a legal aspect, would stand for rights of consenting adults to live freely, without reprocussion.

At the same time, he was first and foremost a Baptist preacher of the mid 60s. As such, he would most likely preach against the homosexual lifestyle - asking those who listened to live chaste lives.

What is legal, isn't always moral. It is perfectly consistent to fight for peoples legal rights, while also preaching to people to lives where the family is at its center.

We can only guess what MLK might have said or done. But that is only guessing. What we do know is what he did say, what he did do, and how he lost his life in the quest for equality of all people, of al colors, and of all ethnic origin. That is what we should be focusing on. Not could have, should have, or would have, but what was.

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

I am pleased to be able to concur with this DN editorial. I wish I could do it more often.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

When 2% of the population run amok every January 17th and try to hijack Martin Luther King, Jr. as a spokesman for gay "rights", they show only that gay rights activism cannot stand on its own merits. The 98% of America who are not homosexual may put up with the 2%'s loud-mouthed rhetoric, but they do not agree that marriage should be redefined or that homosexual "couples" should have the right to adopted and raise children (and expose those children to a homosexual life-style).

If you ask the right questions, 98% of the populace would speak out against homosexual activity.

If you asked them if their sons and their daughters should be told that homosexual intercourse is proper, they would disagree.

If you asked them if they thought that homosexual "partners" should be able to adopt children and raise those children to become homosexual, they would disagree.

If you asked them if the definition of marriage should mean the union of a man and a woman, they would agree.

Ask the right questions and you'll see that what the 2% is shouting about today is just hot air.

ECR
Burke, VA

Many thanks to the DN for this fitting tribute to Dr. King on this day set aside for honoring his sacrifice and leadership. He was not a perfect man, none of us are, but he stood for perfect ideals that should be in the hearts of every American. Today, almost fifty years after his famous speech on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, we are still fighting the battles he fought - perhaps not in the same ways but the battles still exist.

The DN's call for civility in the fight for civil rights is absolutely appropriate and we should all take a lesson from Dr. King's example of peaceful protest and civil discourse as we continue to discuss issues that are important to our nation but that still divide us. Thank you DN.

George
Bronx, NY

@Mike Richard's
you know it used to be funny that you assumed anyone that spoke out in support of gay marriage must be gay but over the years it has just become sad to realize that no matter how many times the errors of your assumption and the research indicating the falsehood of your statements are pointed out to you that you will continue to perpetuate the same illogic. Have a nice day mike the world is changing all around you despite your denial of reality and you cannot not hide from it.

md
Cache, UT

When did this discussion fan out to be about gay rights?

Of course gays should have rights, the same rights we all have. However, they don't deserve special protections and rights that the rest of us don't enjoy. For the same reason, reverse discrimination should not be allowed in the form of entitlements and affirmative action that penalize well qualified people from employment and opportunities that they have earned, because of their skin color.

The shrill voices of the gays take every opportunity to let you know when they have been offended. Like they are daily.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Maybe today would be a good day to add Isaiah 5:20 to the teachings of Martin Luther King, Jr.

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

When we live in a time prophesied by a man living 700 years before Christ, the shouts of the 2% are put into perspective.

Those who care about eternal truth know how accurate Isaiah was. He had a dream also. He saw things are they would become.

Why would anyone think that eternal truth could be isolated from the way we must live our lives? MLK spoke for millions who had no voice of their own; men and woman who knew the difference between the lawlessness of their time and place and the freedom promised to every American. Today, there are those who use their freedom to preach lawlessness and rebellion against eternal laws. They fulfill Isaiah's prophecy. They, like the people who mocked Noah, will have their short season when they think that heaven and earth will be mocked, but Ether wrote: "Fools mock, but they shall mourn."

isrred
Logan, UT

When any society says that I cannot marry a certain person, that society has cut off a segment of my freedom, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. said in 1958.

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