Comments about ‘Mormons' immigration attitudes set them apart’

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Published: Saturday, Jan. 14 2012 8:12 p.m. MST

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Alfred
L.A., California

@Phill:

"...the immigration system in this country it's broken, corrupt."

The immigration system is perfectly OK. What's broken and corrupt is enforcement.

Obama and Holder believe immigration is totally the fed's responsibility, including enforcement. Certainly the US Constitution states that the Congress shall establish an 'uniform rule of naturalization' (Article 1.8.4). However, it says nothing about enforcement. It's true that immigration rules have been established and codified in federal law but it would seem states could provide enforcement since it is a herculean task for the feds with just ICE as an enforcement agency. In fact, there are provisions in federal immigration law which provides for the fed to partnership with states for enforcement. What each state should do is work to ensure they have such written authority as a first effort toward solving immigration problems. If noting else, it would get Obama and Holder off their backs.

I'm sure there must be myriads of examples where states aid the feds in law enforcement such as, for example, illicit drug enforcement.

Alfred
L.A., California

@Way of the Warrior:

"Aren't we all citizens of the same planet?"

Yes, but in our little corner of the planet we voted in massive give-away programs which attracts the riffraff. Give-aways designed for citizens, not the rest of the world.

"Children of the same God?"

Which God? Would that be Allah, Jesus, or Buddha?

"It's too bad political boundaries keep us from seeing people for who they really are."

We see others for who they are just fine... from a distance... across a boundary line.

sg
newhall, CA

The poll didn't ask me. I would like to see all illegals deported with their entire families. Everything they acquired while here confiscated and sold. No Dream Act. No work visas. No Spanish branches. No driver licenses. No welfare. No health care. No education. No jobs. and MUST have to carry ID stating that they are legally here. If not. Get out of our country. I would also like to see the church stop encouraging illegals from remaining here by teaching them the gospel. What ever happened to obeying the laws of the land? So, I believe that illegals are a burden on this country. And they should be required to learn English. No English, no service whatsoever. No Spanish translation on the phones for bank service or any services. And then, seal the borders period. I would rather spend the money to seal the border than to pay the cost in having them illegally living here, stealing identities and social security numbers. And yes, it does happen and yes, there is a black market they can go to to acquire fake documentation. It is one way to prevent voter fraud.

milojthatch
Sandy, UT

As a Latter-day Saint, I fully believe in the 12th Article of Faith. However, the falsehood it seems most Conservative Latter-day Saints here and elsewhere seem to make it out like is that that means that to follow that, you can't work to change laws. When Joseph Smith wrote that, he never said that following a law meant you did not have the power to help change it.

Further, for all the law lovers out there, how many of you have never run a red light or jay walked? When you look at history and a slightly bigger picture, and realize how much the US has negatively influence events South of the Board that ultimately inspired many of these illegals to feel the need to come here illegally, you might feel a little kinder towards them, and realize how grey the issue really is.

We do need to deal with this issue, but let us do so with fairness and kindness and less hate and fear. That is all the Utah Compact is saying and why the church supports it.

ArizonaMom3
MESA, AZ

@ Gracie, "Legal and illegal are useful terms for those having agendas to push."
Legal = allowable/enforecable by being in conformity with the law of the land. Illegal = antithesis.
Not terms.
Words - with definitive meanings.
No agenda attached.

ArizonaMom3
MESA, AZ

@ Gracie, you take umbrage at the use of "bleeding heart fallacy" just as you bemoan the use of accurate definitions in the english language while down here on the front lines we contend daily with the illegal acts of illegal people as you (for now) remain sheltered up in Boise, ID from true reality while the mainstream media blacks out truths per your bleeding heart "agenda." MY heart bleeds for the victims of this agenda such as Liberty and the 4 week old baby in New Mexico raped to death by Juan Galindo who held prior assault of a minor, etc. and had been recently deported then skipped back illegally once more to "begin a productive life." (try googling)Yes Gracie so generous of you to "share"...

AZ Patriot
Lakeside, AZ

Being a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and living in a border state, I find myself in a quandry at times. I feel that helping my fellow man, legal or illegal, is of utmost importance. However, I, also feel that obeying the law of the land is the thing to do. AZ have tried to enforce the law and are being sued by the full force of the federal government. Just ask Sherrif Joe how that is working for him. He who was doing his job and found himself in the whirlwind of political correctness. If the feds were enforcing the laws on the books, ther wouldn't be a problem. I just do not want this to be an issue used by either political party to demonize the other.

Theeng2
Holladay, UT

I think they should close the borders and give everyone who's been here illegally longer than a year and is contributing to society a 9 month window to get their green card. After that they need to start cracking down on illegals and taking the situation seriously.

Razzle2
Bluffdale, UT

I have proud Mexican American friends in Arizona. If you ask them "What part of Mexico you are from?" they will tell you..."Arizona."

Not all Mexican Americans have immigrant ancestors, but were here before the USA. Yet, these American citizens are harassed as illegal immigrants from time to time.

Canyontreker
TAYLORSVILLE, UT

@milojthatch "the falsehood it seems...that to follow the (law), you can't work to change laws."

Yes, I agree. It is not hypocrisy to debate and try to change the laws that you currently sustain.

Cowboy Dude
SAINT GEORGE, UT

I'm an International business person with extended trips up to six months exporting USA goods and services.

I am thankful most countries are not discriminative against American immigrants. I swear to always assume everyone in the US is legal until proven otherwise, then I will hear their story.

Gracie
Boise, ID

milojthatch --

Thank you for your thoughtful, quick statement about laws and that we can change them. We should and often do. Slavery laws were changed but not until after unbelievable brutality of all factions who could cite law and the philosophical bases supporting their positions.

It's nearly impossible to change the minds of people who control the language in ways that favor their points of view. It's ever been this way as long as money and power are involved, that the discourse becomes toxic and allows for wild verbal swings at anybody who stands for some kind of long-term, positive conclusion based in mutual respect.

As far as my living in Boise is concerned, that's a fairly recent thing, and it's only one of several places around the country I've called home. It's interesting to me how much disrespect people here receive from others around the country.

I'm closely watching the news about the Utah Compact. It sounds as if they're trying to get it right, at least in Utah, finally.

rhappahannock
Washington, DC

Immigration - legal and unathorized - is a net economic benefit to the country. Go back to Econ 101 or read "The Economist" as opposed to blindly following some radio host that is paid to stir up anger and resentment. Get the real facts - not a soundbite.

Jesus Christ was an undocumented immigrant to Egypt. Going to throw him out?

Those blaming all our economic problems on "the Mexicans" are engaging in National Socialism. Some of the posters here are even advocating a "Final Solution."

John Pack Lambert of Michigan
Ypsilanti, MI

After you have known people who came here "illegally" to flee rape by paramilitary forces aligned with the US backed government in Guatamala, people who came here "illegally" because they could not earn enough money to feed their children, and people who came here "illegally" because they feared for their lives at the hands of the people who had recently bombed the local LDS chapel and had made it known that they intended to kill the leader of the local American connected Church, you will not be so quick to judge.

When your favorite primary teacher ever was a man whose parents learned of the gospel after they had come to the US illegally, when your favorite high council speaker ever was a man whose parents came to the US as stowaways since they could not afford the trip, and thus never dealt with immigration, and when your grandmother has second cousins who died because US immigration policy had low quotas that kept them where they were killed for being Jews by the Nazis, you will not be so quick to distinguish "illegal" and "legal" immigration.

ArizonaMom3
MESA, AZ

@rhappahannock, I agree "blindly following some radio host" is unwise but Econ101 (taken by those at the helm of our financial debacle by the way lol) if "blindly" followed stirs up same anger and resentment. The real world is the cure. Join us. No one is blaming "all our economic problems" on "the Mexicans." That assertion is absurd. But not nearly so absurd as the notion that our sovereignty respected would somehow lead to "National Socialism." I recommend a History class or maybe a historical document such as our glorious Constitution. Away from conflicting "soundbites" you may learn the truth that our founders gifted us with precious Liberty that all should understand, appreciate, honor and defend else it "perish from the earth." Here is a thought, how bout we spread "Liberty to all" across sovereign borders rather than quash the last bastion of it here on God's green earth?

Mr. Bean
L.A., California

@rhappahannock:

"Immigration - legal and unathorized - is a net economic benefit to the country."

If they are, it's only be a very slim few cents. They get free education and mostly free health care. Most don't pay any income taxes because they don't make enough to qualify.

"Jesus Christ was an undocumented immigrant to Egypt. Going to throw him out?"

Jesus didn't go to Egypt. And if He did, He didn't stay for long. He just visited then went home.

"Those blaming all our economic problems on 'the Mexicans' are engaging in National Socialism."

No one is blaming ALL our problems on Mexicans. But we clearly can't continue to take in all the people of the world who would like a better life in America. We just can't do that. So, we need to draw the line someplace. We already have immigration laws, so that's the logical place to start. Secure the borders. Then, what about those already here? Well, I say if they broke our laws don't give them citizenship, ever. Or, at least until they leave and return in a legal fashion. Then take away the magnet that brings them here... jobs. Require usage of E-Verify.

Miss Piggie
Salt Lake City, UT

@Mr. Bean:

"But we clearly can't continue to take in all the people of the world who would like a better life in America."

You got that right, Bean. And if you want to see the details of why, go to YouTube's 'Immigration Gumballs.'

TeenageConstitutionalist
MESA, AZ

Immigration and Illegal Immigration are two entirely different things. Trying to lump them together into the same thing is like trying to lump together water and oil. The amount of people who think they are the same thing is astounding. The ignorance in our country has never been as prevalent as it is now. By the way, the church doesn't support the "Utah Compact". In order for the church to support something or have it become church policy, doctrine, etc. The President and the Quorum of the twelve must all be in unanimous agreement. This never happened to the "Utah Compact". Certain un-educatd members of the church may support it, but the church as a whole does not.

sportsfan21
OREM, UT

Miss Piggie, I've seen that clip on YouTube and I think you should be aware that that man in a statistical manipulator. If you look closely on his chart, he begins in 1970 at a population growth of zero so that it looks like the population will be mostly Hispanic by 2020, which isn't the case. He also doesn't account for variables among both groups. He explains that for several reasons, existing citizens will decrease the number of children they have, but he doesn't think that those same reasons (ie fewer jobs, less healthcare) will decrease the rate that people enter the country.

Later, he says that 4.6 billion people are more impoverished than the average Mexican. In 1990 there were only 6 billion people in the world total. So only 1,400,400 people were wealthier than the average Mexican? I would say that 500 million Americans were wealthier along with 500 million Europeans and 400 million Japanese. Now throw in Chinese, Australian, South African, Brazilian, and Russian people who make more than " 1/10 of what the average Americans make" and his estimate might be 2 billion off.

The_Kaiser
Holladay, UT

immigration has gotten a bad rap because our government doesn't know how to foster legitimate legal immigration.

Make it easier to let them come. Have them share the full burden of taxes/responsibility.

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